Study: Religious people harbour deep mistrust of atheists, about equal to rapists

[Dakotah]

i want to ask an athiest..why did you choose to be an thiest,what makes you not believe in god?

Well, I am an atheist. I am because I prefer to believe in what I can see with my eyes, hear with my ears, smell with my nose, taste with my tongue, and touch with my fingers. I am not really concerned with the questions why and how. I simply accept that things are.

As for my moral code, that was instilled in me by my parents (also atheists BTW), who taught me right from wrong. They taught me to respect others of all beliefs and backgrounds. They taught me to not judge anyone. They taught me to always be kind and helpful. And I have done my best, in my many years on this Earth, to follow their teachings. I do so because it is the right thing to do, and because by doing so I honour my parents'.

Now, given my answer, and assuming we were to one day bump into each other unexpectedly, would I be a person you could trust knowing that I am an atheist?

I know you weren't expecting anyone to answer that question, but I thought I'd do so anyway.

 

[TRIFORCE89]

I don't get how this is relevant lol - there is quite a difference between choosing not to place your child in childcare and specifically singling out an atheist as somebody you would not trust to care for your child.

As for the study itself, my first thought was "yeah, sounds about right". There is nothing worse than to be Godless, after all. Personally, I find that people who think that religion and God are necessary for a moral code are the same people who do need religion and God to form their moral centres... and couldn't distinguish "right" from "wrong" without it. That's not to say that religion is necessarily a reliable source for what's right and wrong lol.

Relevant because, even with religions aside... families members do usually have a similar moral code, which is what I would base childcare on for instance.

 

[Esper]

Also, story is sad. Probably a bunch of extremist fundamentalists in the survey. Ball rolls both ways, guys. I trust people like that less than rapists, too. If I had kids, I wouldn't let those folk anywhere near them. Tit for tat.

I wouldn't call that tit for tat, at least not in the daycare example we're discussing. A fundamentalist is way more likely to bring up religion and/or push their beliefs than your average atheist. More atheists won't bring up the subject in the first place because religion isn't part of their lives so it's not on their minds as much.

 

[FreakyLocz14]

Yes. I'm saying that I want early childcare for my kids to include lessons on the word of God according to my faith. I would also choose Catholic school over public school if I could afford it. If not, I could always send them to a Catholic after school program and to Sunday school to supplement the public school lessons.

 

[Dakotah]

[SIZE="a"]Yes. I'm saying that I want early childcare for my kids to include lessons on the word of God according to my faith. I would also choose Catholic school over public school if I could afford it. If not, I could always send them to a Catholic after school program and to Sunday school to supplement the public school lessons.

There's a difference, however, between having your child being given lessons on your particular beliefs and only wanting to surround your child with like-minded people. The world, as you know, is an incredibly vast place, with peoples from all walks of life and beliefs. How can a person possibly grow by shutting out other ways of thinking?

I do know this. You may choose to surround your children with like-minded people. But there is the distinct possibility your child will reject all that he or she was taught in favour of a belief system that they feel is right for them.

You as a parent have the right to instill your beliefs in your children. But I personally feel you'd be disadvantaging them by not giving them the opportunity to explore different ways of thinking, and by not letting them decide for themselves what is right.

Any religion that forces people to believe a certain way, is in my opinion, a dying one.[/SIZE]

 

[Oryx]

There's a difference, however, between having your child being given lessons on your particular beliefs and only wanting to surround your child with like-minded people. The world, as you know, is an incredibly vast space, with peoples from all walks of life and beliefs. How can a person possibly grow by shutting out other ways of thinking?

I do know this. You may choose to surround your children with like-minded people. But there is the distinct possibility your child will reject all that he or she was taught in favour of a belief system that they feel is right for them.

You as a parent have the right to instill your beliefs in your children. But I personally feel you'd be disadvantaging them by not giving them the opportunity to explore different ways of thinking, and not letting them decide for themselves what is right.

Any religion that forces people to believe a certain way, is in my opinion, a dying one.

In my opinion at least, it's tough to make that decision, and to allow a child to make serious religious decisions. Think of it this way - your child is 9-10 and you're giving the option to go to church or not to go to church. To you, it's a decision that signifies your faith in God. To the child, it's a decision that signifies that if they decide to not be religious they can play all day Sunday instead of go to church. The reason children need guidance is because they generally don't think of the long-term, and of serious consequences and such. Instead they think of short-term, "being non-religious means I don't have to pray every night or go to confession or sit through a boring service".

That's why it's a tough call to say that a child shouldn't be forced to follow a religion. It reminds me of the idea of forcing a child to push themselves academically; while the child may not want to then because "this is boring", it will help them in the future to grow up with the mindset to try hard in school so a parent has to force it on a child.

 

[TRIFORCE89]

How can a person possibly grow by shutting out other ways of thinking?

I do know this. You may choose to surround your children with like-minded people. But there is the distinct possibility your child will reject all that he or she was taught in favour of a belief system that they feel is right for them.

I'd be fine with that. I would try to raise my children the way I was raised. When they've grown up, if they choose to switch to another religion or no religion all together, that's fine. That's part of growing up and making your own decisions. That's kind of the point of the sacrament of Confirmation.

I was raised Catholic. I did not grow up in a vacuum however. And my parents did not try to hide the fact that there were other religions. I went to a Catholic elementary school and we were taught about other religions and customs. In Catholic high school I took a world religions course and a philosophy course.

You can be of a certain religion, and not have to be surrounded only by like-minded individuals. You don't have to be ignorant or intolerant. I believe in God, but also always default to what is proven by science.

 

[FreakyLocz14]

There's a difference, however, between having your child being given lessons on your particular beliefs and only wanting to surround your child with like-minded people. The world, as you know, is an incredibly vast place, with peoples from all walks of life and beliefs. How can a person possibly grow by shutting out other ways of thinking?

I do know this. You may choose to surround your children with like-minded people. But there is the distinct possibility your child will reject all that he or she was taught in favour of a belief system that they feel is right for them.

You as a parent have the right to instill your beliefs in your children. But I personally feel you'd be disadvantaging them by not giving them the opportunity to explore different ways of thinking, and by not letting them decide for themselves what is right.

Any religion that forces people to believe a certain way, is in my opinion, a dying one.

They can decide for themselves when they are no longer in my home and in my ward. Until then, they will be instilled with Catholic values.

 

[Broken_Arrow]

Well, I am an atheist. I am because I prefer to believe in what I can see with my eyes, hear with my ears, smell with my nose, taste with my tongue, and touch with my fingers. I am not really concerned with the questions why and how. I simply accept that things are.

As for my moral code, that was instilled in me by my parents (also atheists BTW), who taught me right from wrong. They taught me to respect others of all beliefs and backgrounds. They taught me to not judge anyone. They taught me to always be kind and helpful. And I have done my best, in my many years on this Earth, to follow their teachings. I do so because it is the right thing to do, and because by doing so I honour my parents'.

Now, given my answer, and assuming we were to one day bump into each other unexpectedly, would I be a person you could trust knowing that I am an atheist?

I know you weren't expecting anyone to answer that question, but I thought I'd do so anyway.

First,i understand what you mean but that mean you don't breathe air?..nobody can see air while it keep us alive no one can deny that....of course you're free to believe or not i won't judge you but...there are things higher and bigger than that our eyes can see...i believe in god and know that God with me in every choice i made and every step i take..God created me cuz when i look at myself and hear about our first parents Adam and Eve i know we were created by a great professinal hands that no human can do it..God only can do it...anyway,that's my opinion..as i'm a muslima..

depends,
yes I would trust you,as i said i never deal with people according to their religion but according to how they deal with others and their manners and their actions..won't trust you if i discovered that you're not trusted person which related to your manners not because you're Athiest..^^

 

[Misheard Whisper]

They can decide for themselves when they are no longer in my home and in my ward. Until then, they will be instilled with Catholic values.

But isn't that forcing your views upon others? I don't think parents should have the right to push their religion onto their children. Religion should be an adult choice, not an adolescent indoctrination. If I was forced to live with Catholic values until I left home (presumably at about 18), my life would be miserable because I realised about age 10 that I didn't properly believe in God. I only believed in God because I'd been exposed since birth to Catholicism. I believed in God because I'd been told to believe in God, not because I decided for myself. And I highly resent being forced like that. It's my biggest problem with religion. To the person who said 'that's what Confirmation is for': I was forced to take Confirmation at age 8. I was never given an option or informed that there was an alternative. I did it because for a few years before then, my teachers (Catholic school) and parents had simply told me that it was the way of the world, an unchangeable event. So I was Confirmed, I said the words confirming my belief, but I didn't truly know what they meant.

In my ideal world, children would be kept away from religion until they were at least ten or preferably older (like fifteen), and they would then be able to make their own decision on which religion to follow (if any) based on what they thought the individual merits of each was. Tell me how that would be a bad idea.

First,i understand what you mean but that mean you don't breathe air?..nobody can see air while it keep us alive no one can deny that....of course you're free to believe or not i won't judge you but...there are things higher and bigger than that our eyes can see...i believe in god and know that God with me in every choice i made and every step i take..God created me cuz when i look at myself and hear about our first parents Adam and Eve i know we were created by a great professinal hands that no human can do it..God only can do it...anyway,that's my opinion..as i'm a muslima..

Are you actually serious? 'Nobody can see air'? Really? That's a poor argument at best, and a disgraceful one at worst. Science has proven the existence of air time and time again. With special equipment, you can see the molecules and atoms that make up air, etc etc. It's really not that complicated.

Also, nobody in their right mind has suggested that we were made by humans. That's not what natural selection means at all. We came about through evolution, starting as nothing more than a blob of collected chemicals and moving through amoebas, fish, land-based crawlers, other mammals, monkeys and finally into humans. (Yes, I missed a few steps. Shush.) And when you 'hear' about Adam and Eve? Who has ever proven that they existed? One book documents their existence, while hundreds of books, scientific papers, journals and studies refute it.

 

[Broken_Arrow]

^yes,he said he only believe in what he see..we can't see air then we don't breathe it?...it's an example...

there are people who think that we just came and been created by our parents..lol,trust me i met lots of people thinks that..

Adam and Eve exist i believe my holy book and also the other holy books says they exist..i won't ever say human were monkies before..this is silly...God created people and animals and that whole world..god make mericles god gives lives and take it..god made heaven and hell and i believe that difference between people have a reason...

 

[Misheard Whisper]

^yes,he said he only believe in what he see..we can't see air then we don't breathe it?...it's an example...

I know it was an example. I'm saying it was a poor example because we can see air. Not always with our naked eyes, but with technological enhancement. That's what I said last post, and I'm sorry if I wasn't clear enough.

there are people who think that we just came and been created by our parents..lol,trust me i met lots of people thinks that..

Well, to a certain extent, that's true . . . I think. I can't really understand what you're saying, but oh well.

Adam and Eve exist i believe my holy book and also the other holy books says they exist..i won't ever say human were monkies before..this is silly...God created people and animals and that whole world..god make mericles god gives lives and take it..god made heaven and hell and i believe that difference between people have a reason...

It's not 'silly' to me. For me, 'silly' is believing what you read in an old book over scientific evidence. What do you think of the scientific evidence that humans evolved from monkeys? It exists, it's there, and I'd like to see you try and refute it. Really, I'd appreciate it if you didn't ignore things appreciated almost universally as fact.

 

[Dakotah]

^yes,he said he only believe in what he see..we can't see air then we don't breathe it?...it's an example...

Yes, I can see air (oxygen). I see it every day when I turn on the tap. It's just that when I do see it, it's generally mixed with hydrogen and they are in such quantity that they take physical form called water.

there are people who think that we just came and been created by our parents..lol,trust me i met lots of people thinks that.

You mean... my parents didn't have sex resulting in my conception and eventual birth?

Adam and Eve exist i believe my holy book and also the other holy books says they exist..i won't ever say human were monkies before..this is silly...God created people and animals and that whole world..god make mericles god gives lives and take it..god made heaven and hell and i believe that difference between people have a reason...

Ever hear of the movie "Inherit the Wind"? This is a prime example where people take the bible and interpret it literally. In the bible it says the Earth was made in a number of days (6 or 7 I cannot remember which). But where in the bible does it state the length of each day. In the end, theologists have determined that a single day could be of an undetermined length. It could very well have been millions of years for that "single" day to take place.

Now let's go on to how man was "created." Here the bible does not discount evolution as being the means by which mankind came to being. The bible states that God created Adam and Eve. But again, we're not given a time frame as to how long such creation took. Also, it's not stated the method by which God created these two people. It is very possible, and a growing number of theologists agree, that God--if one even existed--could have used evolution to create humans. Which means, in that one day God created man, which could have taken hundreds of thousands if not millions of years, evolution could have been how man was created. God set events in motion that led to the human race.

Human beings were never monkeys to begin with. However, somewhere along the evolutionary line, a common ancestor branched off, with one branch eventually leading to us, humans, and the other leading to the various species of monkeys that inhabits the Earth. We're not descended from monkey's but we are closely related to them.

As for the existence of hell... ever sit in a dentist chair while getting a root canal? That's hell! Or how about sitting down at the table with piles and piles of receipts as you try to figure out your taxes. That's hell!

 

[StarlightSerenity]

I don't give a monkeys uncle what religion someone is - I judge someones trustworthyness by getting to know them rather than basing it on one aspect of their personality, beliefs and morals.

I'm religous myself (Wiccan, to be precise). Maybe my airy fairy religous views makes me not care about what others believe in :P

 

[TRIFORCE89]

But isn't that forcing your views upon others? I don't think parents should have the right to push their religion onto their children. Religion should be an adult choice, not an adolescent indoctrination. If I was forced to live with Catholic values until I left home (presumably at about 18), my life would be miserable because I realised about age 10 that I didn't properly believe in God. I only believed in God because I'd been exposed since birth to Catholicism. I believed in God because I'd been told to believe in God, not because I decided for myself. And I highly resent being forced like that. It's my biggest problem with religion. To the person who said 'that's what Confirmation is for': I was forced to take Confirmation at age 8. I was never given an option or informed that there was an alternative. I did it because for a few years before then, my teachers (Catholic school) and parents had simply told me that it was the way of the world, an unchangeable event. So I was Confirmed, I said the words confirming my belief, but I didn't truly know what they meant.

But... that's not necessarily the religion's fault. But rather the fault of your parents (and teachers) and how you were raised.

You said earlier that you didn't know other religions existed. That you didn't know your own father was atheist. That's not being raised to follow a certain religious belief. That's not just indoctrination, as you put it. I consider that a full on attempt at brainwashing.

We were both raised Catholic. But, my experience has been wholly different than yours. Your parents deliberately prevented you from being exposed to anything else. As if that would be somehow bad. Mine did not.

As a Catholic, how could you not even be aware of Judaism at least? It's not secret information. It's pretty darn mainstream. There was even a Hanukkah Rugrats episode. You were purposely taught that nothing else existed. Perhaps your experience is the same for the majority. I sincerely hope it isn't.

You weren't raised to be religious, you were raised to be ignorant. And you've seen through that thankfully.

Human beings were never monkeys to begin with. However, somewhere along the evolutionary line, a common ancestor branched off, with one branch eventually leading to us, humans, and the other leading to the various species of monkeys that inhabits the Earth. We're not descended from monkey's but we are closely related to them.

Indeed. Another example would be modern birds and crocodilians which both stem from the same place.

 

[FreakyLocz14]

It's not forcing my views on others. They're my kids. I get to decide how I raise them.
If I was a childcare provider, I would respect the religious views (or lack thereof) of the parents of the children I was caring for.

 

[Oryx]

But isn't that forcing your views upon others? I don't think parents should have the right to push their religion onto their children. Religion should be an adult choice, not an adolescent indoctrination. If I was forced to live with Catholic values until I left home (presumably at about 18), my life would be miserable because I realised about age 10 that I didn't properly believe in God. I only believed in God because I'd been exposed since birth to Catholicism. I believed in God because I'd been told to believe in God, not because I decided for myself. And I highly resent being forced like that. It's my biggest problem with religion. To the person who said 'that's what Confirmation is for': I was forced to take Confirmation at age 8. I was never given an option or informed that there was an alternative. I did it because for a few years before then, my teachers (Catholic school) and parents had simply told me that it was the way of the world, an unchangeable event. So I was Confirmed, I said the words confirming my belief, but I didn't truly know what they meant.

In my ideal world, children would be kept away from religion until they were at least ten or preferably older (like fifteen), and they would then be able to make their own decision on which religion to follow (if any) based on what they thought the individual merits of each was. Tell me how that would be a bad idea.

Are you actually serious? 'Nobody can see air'? Really? That's a poor argument at best, and a disgraceful one at worst. Science has proven the existence of air time and time again. With special equipment, you can see the molecules and atoms that make up air, etc etc. It's really not that complicated.

Also, nobody in their right mind has suggested that we were made by humans. That's not what natural selection means at all. We came about through evolution, starting as nothing more than a blob of collected chemicals and moving through amoebas, fish, land-based crawlers, other mammals, monkeys and finally into humans. (Yes, I missed a few steps. Shush.) And when you 'hear' about Adam and Eve? Who has ever proven that they existed? One book documents their existence, while hundreds of books, scientific papers, journals and studies refute it.

I hate to mention this, but the way you just treated that girl is exactly what makes many people online wary of 'those darn pushy atheists'. You were rude and condescending as if you were better than her simply because you have the "right beliefs". Her argument may not have been the best, but you don't have to react so harshly.

As far as letting kids decide at 10, I explained why that's generally a bad idea. A kid grows up every Sunday playing games, sleeping in, generally being a kid. Suddenly at 10 they're told that they can choose to be Catholic if they'd like, but that would mean they'd have to get up early every Sunday to go to mass, they'd have to go confess their sins to a strange once a month, they'd have to pray 3 times a week, etc. I can guarantee you that most children would rather just stay non-religious not because they don't believe in God, but because they don't want to put in the work involved in having a religion. Triforce is right on this one - there's a difference between raising your child in a religion and brainwashing them with that religion. Raising them involves having them come with you to services and do the things involved in the religion, but not denying that there are other religions and educating you on them and accepting you if you choose at some age to switch. That's how a parent should ideally raise their children in the faith - just because you had a bad experience doesn't mean that every person that ever wants to raise a child with religion is bad.

It's strange, really - I'm agnostic, leaning towards atheism, yet in almost all religious threads I find myself defending the religious people from atheists that feel the need to attack them. It's respect, people.

 

[Misheard Whisper]

It's not forcing my views on others. They're my kids. I get to decide how I raise them.

Really. And what gives you that right? Religion is not something that should start with children. You can choose what kind of moral code you teach them, for sure. Teach them to love their neighbour or whatever. But don't bring God into the equation. Religion is a concept that children cannot fully grasp, and when presented with such an alien thing, children will simply accept it without question and that is bad. I haven't got a problem with people choosing to be religious. I have got a problem with people who think they have the right to choose for other people. Evangelists are the worst in that case, but it also extends to people who make their children religious before they even know what it fully means. Like I said, I was raised Catholic and I resent it infinitely. Words cannot convey the rage I feel at the institution - and to an extent, my family - that made me believe something when I was too young to know what believing was. It actually hurts, and I believe it had a negative influence on my life.

If I was a childcare provider, I would respect the religious views (or lack thereof) of the parents of the children I was caring for.

So why would you not accept that other people would do the same? You say you wouldn't let an atheist care for your children; why not accept that they would probably respect your religious views?

But... that's not necessarily the religion's fault. But rather the fault of your parents (and teachers) and how you were raised.

You said earlier that you didn't know other religions existed. That you didn't know your own father was atheist. That's not being raised to follow a certain religious belief. That's not just indoctrination, as you put it. I consider that a full on attempt at brainwashing.

We were both raised Catholic. But, my experience has been wholly different than yours. Your parents deliberately prevented you from being exposed to anything else. As if that would be somehow bad. Mine did not.

As a Catholic, how could you not even be aware of Judaism at least? It's not secret information. It's pretty darn mainstream. There was even a Hanukkah Rugrats episode. You were purposely taught that nothing else existed. Perhaps your experience is the same for the majority. I sincerely hope it isn't.

It's pretty much how it was. My parish was fairly liberal, I thought. It's not like someone shoved a blindfold on me whenever we drove past a mosque or anything; it was just that we weren't informed that said mosque represented an alternative religion. It was just a place where people that weren't us went. As for awareness of Judaism, no. Not really. There were a few mentions of 'Jesus, King of the Jews', but I just assumed it was a race rather than a religion. It was just glossed over. So in hindsight, it wasn't so much brainwashing as selective, enforced ignorance. Kind of the same thing, I guess, but . . . hell. I know what I'm saying, even if you don't. @_@

Toujours, I'm not attacking anyone. She presented a hugely flawed, blind argument and I did to that argument what I would do to any that doesn't stand up to scrutiny, whether it agreed with my views or not. I accept that people believe different things than me, and I will tolerate those beliefs. What I will not tolerate, however, is wilful ignorance, be it on the part of a Catholic, a Muslim, a Jew, an agnostic or an atheist.

 

[Oryx]

your[/I] religious views?

Yes. I'm saying that I want early childcare for my kids to include lessons on the word of God according to my faith. I would also choose Catholic school over public school if I could afford it. If not, I could always send them to a Catholic after school program and to Sunday school to supplement the public school lessons.

Would an atheist respect her views enough to literally teach her children the word of God if she wanted it?

Edit since you added stuff directed at me:
It's possible to refute an argument without being so aggressively rude, that's the point I'm making. You can respect her views while still explaining why the argument doesn't hold up. If you're that aggressive towards anyone that puts up an argument that doesn't meet your standards, then I guess I'll have to assume it's an attitude problem with you in particular and not atheists in general, although it just adds another tally to my "Atheists who are aggressive towards religious people online: infinite, religious people who are aggressive to atheists online: 0" count. :/

 

[Broken_Arrow]

First of all,i won't ever say that i'm a monkey though..there's a different also monkies still exist as animals..and scientific evidence...oh please..what makes you believe they are right all the time...

yes,the world was created in 6 days that's mentioned in Holy Quran too..

and Jay,i myself wasn't raised that way..my Dad told me about our religion and the other religion and showed me the difference i started to like learning about Islam till i was 15 i started to pray while inside hoping that god give me what i ask for me and the people i love...when i'm alone...i can keep mention god name and really won't feel lonely..God keep me safe and give me chances...i knew about my religion and believeing in god always made me feel better and okay in bad times....

@whisper..would like if you changed your way of talking to people,you have your opinin and we have ours so try to be more nice if you could...