TCG Daily Chit Chat

Frostweaver said:
How's Mirror Force more powerful than Torrential Tribute in anyway that one is banned yet the other isn't? You can force activate your own Torrential Tribute by summoning a Sangan, then wipe all of their field clear. Torrential can destroy monsters upon summoning. It is more flexible than Mirror Force because it can be activated outside of battle phase. Mirror Force has the advantage that it only destroys opponents' monsters, but it is much easier to be disarmed in comparison to Torrential Tribute. Either both are gone, or both are limited to 1, and people probably want both of them to stay.

Bounder is an automatic -1 in card advantage, and a -1 for field presense too. Reaper can run into him and not die, basically using 1500 LP to clear your monster. If it's a tomato, then it's even worse... ram into bounder to receive damage, clear your field, call out the don to take out your hand next time. You see how this thing is pretty flawed? Back then there's no other light monster so it's relatively powerful. Now that we got some options for light food that doesn't say "-1 me or more at the cost of LP!" we can really bring him back.

How's Tribe that strong if there's no serpent to abuse it? It's a constant -1 if you want to use the effect, and we don't use Lightning Vortex for a reason... Tribe is basically a weakened Lightning Vortex that can be reused and also contribute to field presense. As long as there's no infinite fuel, tribe should stay.

Witch can search for a lot, but most of the time it'll be searching for tribute monsters, which really need some help. No one plays tribute because "OH MY GOODNESS THAT'S ANOTHER -1" well we can solve this problem if we have more powerful tribute food, like sangan and witch. If we succeed in getting rid of the broken stuff so witch can't search for them and forces witch to search for the proper stuff, then witch isn't that bad at all.
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Obviously for me...

1. Torrential leaves you open too, like for your opponent's face-down Sangan to fetch a Don to attack you with next turn, or use that face-down CotH to hit you with a previously-destroyed beatstick. Sure, there are a couple more cards to deal with Mirror Force, but it's still worth it to not have to worry about your monsters disappearing, too.

2. If you're thinking about advantage, then yeah, I guess it's not that good...but then again, in that context neither is Chaos Emperor Dragon (get rid of everything just in time for your opponent to topdeck that (RotA for) Blade Knight/GAF and smack you with a solid 2000+)...it's about having a bit of revenge...and hey, it's better than nothing. Plus, it's an automatic minimum of 1700 damage, no matter how you look at it, and if your opponent doesn't have that much LP, then...GG. Anyway, even with your scenarios, it isn't an unlimitable card--it's a lot like an easier-to-reuse Magic Cylinder.

3. Yeah, a weakened Lightning Vortex...that's like saying (as much as I hate to admit it) Breaker is a weakened MST. Look at how many people use Breaker, a card that CANNOT be reused very easily, then think how many more would use it if it were reusable, and...you get the idea. Plus, you can decide not to destroy one of their monsters if you don't want to--for a follow-up Snatch Steal, for example--or you can get rid of monsters on your side of the field that you don't want anymore...granted, there aren't as many examples of this right now (Lava Golem is the only one I can think of off the top of my head), but once cards like BLAST SPHERE finally show up, it won't seem so dumb.

4. No, not just tribute monsters. The real threat behind it is its power to bring out beatsticks like GAF, GEAF, Lei Lei, TRIBE, REFLECT BOUNDER, etc. without having to worry about some damaging side effect. BTW, making tributes -1 advantage was A PART OF THE REASON to ban Witch. You said it yourself; Witch can search for a lot. And that's why it's too powerful not to be banned.

Now, I'm not trying to say that you're an idiot or anything--actually, you brought up some good points--but that doesn't change the fact that UDE doesn't see it that way, and they're the ones making the banlists.
 
1. If you're using torrential to clear the entire field on your own turn by summoning a monster yourself, then obviously it is going to be a great card advantage deal to be made. If the opponent is overcommitting the field with facedown, then why would you use torrential so easily? Obviously, those facedown are all searchers... Torrential is harder to use than Mirror Force because you have lots to consider for timing, but I don't see how Mirror Force should be banned while Torrential shouldn't just because one is easier to use and the other is harder. It's not like one is situational and requires combo either. They're both great cards that stand alone...

It's situational. It's only good late game when LP is really low, just like how Pot of Avarice is also a dead draw early on unless you got some lucky discard of 3 to 4 monsters right off the first strike with a merchant. Chaos Emperor Dragon can score card advantage (discard more of his than yours) but it also opens up room for a deadly combo that almost guarantees a victory. Can 1700 LP guarantee a victory like CED's destruction effect? No not really... Reflect Bounder is situational, a definite -1 to card advantage, and is not searchable by anything but witch. The only good thing for it is the 1700LP burn (light type is no longer a pro because now we got merchant, ninja grandmaster sasuke, blade knight and so on for chaos food.) 3 cons vs 1 pros... it deserves to be only semi-restricted.

The difference is that Breaker's MST cost nothing. Tribe's lightning vortex does cost something. Also, out of all crazy monsters, it can't kill the biggest and baddest high damage monster ever (out of CCs, that is)- Mobius (or, suicide tribe for a 2 for 1 deal.) There's cyber dragons but when will you ever see more than 1 machine monster out in high tier decks? The only possibly problematic one is warrior toolbox, but then after years of endless reign warriors can suffer a bit ;p It's probably not too much of a problem for warriors either way, cause they can easily call exiled forces to blow it up, or just remove it with the D.D. Family members, so I doubt that warriors will do much more but whine for awhile if Tribe returns.

If it's just beatsticks that witch is fetching, then I'm not that afraid of it... most of those monsters are just a one-hit wonder of 2300, and you can see it coming... We lived with reinforcement of the army for so long, watching how that wonderful magic card calls for Exiled Forces so your Jinzo can cry in despairity unless you got a trap hole. No one complained about warriors being capable of doing that until recently. I don't see why beatdowns can't use a boost to look for their precious high power to increase the speed of rushes... beatdown haven't earn a spot in Top 8 for awhile now.

I don't see how witch pulling beatsticks is anymore threatening than tomato pulling reapers and dons. The only scary thing is pulling Mobius, but at least Mobius requires a tribute so you got time to save yourself (or just empty your backfield asap.)


No UDE will never release its grip on most of those cards, and once they declare war on a deck type, they won't ever let it live again. But, it's nice to dream isn't it?
 
Erh...........................both of you made some good points, I read everything. (Nice to see you back Ichapokemr, this is Zaikiro btw).

It best to spend the 6 months of the list playing instead of debating on it. Then agian this always happens at that time. -__-;;

It somehow seems like 4 months of the format instad of 6. The 1st month of the format debating on what was banned/restricted/unabnned/unrestricted on the newest list, and the last month of the format debating on what should be banned/restricted/unabnned/unrestricted on the new list.

;K
 
please don't spam like this...long posts aren't that bad >>, and please do contribute to the conversation rather than comment on how long the posts are...most likely it's a debate going on, or an explanation (consider this a warning that spam is bad for your health)

either way i'm still not liking how the Ban list is updated every month or so >_>...way too big @_@
 
sorry bout that XD digi's gone dillusional and had absolutely no idea what's going on here XD
 
Mullet said:
Digi it's only changed twice a year so about every six months.

If Cyber Dragon gets restriced to one then I can play my cool Emo Zombie deck.:P
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Rembember to give me credit. =p

I would basically like the list back to the way it was. At 10 cards. But I would narrow it to around 15 because the list is to much.

This is what I could think of for my version of the list.I will just basically post what is banned, restricted, etc because that is basically what is wanted when a list come instead of it being in alphabetical order. >;;<

You cannot use these cards in your Deck, Fusion Deck or Side Deck.
Breaker the Magical Warrior
Morphing Jar
Dark Hole

You can ONLY use one of the following cards in the Deck, Fusion Deck & Side Deck combined.

D.D Assailant
Emergency Provisions
Reinforcement of the Army
Mirage of Nightmare
Sinister Serpent
Treeborn Frog
Harpies Feather Duster


You can ONLY use two of the following cards in the Deck, Fusion Deck & Side Deck combined.
Reflect Bounder
Spirit Reaper
Protector of the Sanctuary
Premature Burial
Book of Moon
Magician of Faith


I know it's different but I would like this list to be a bit different. ANY comments I will answer.

EDIT: I forgot Treeborn Frog >_>
 
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I agree on Spirit Reaper and DD Assailant, and I now understand why you say Reflect at 2 (even though I still disagree). However:

1. Breaker should not be banned simply because it's only when normal summoned that it gets the counter.

2. Morphing Jan gives BOTH players 5 cards, so it can help both players...but it still helps out Dark World, so while close, it shouldn't be banned yet.

3. HFD unbanned?? That's just BEGGING for OTKs to revive.

4. Mirage should be semi-limited since it requires either getting a lucky early hand or managing to pull that 1 MST to avoid the drawback, especially if you're limiting Emergency Provisions.

5. ACK, 2 Premature Burials!?? No way. that gives Beatdown/Swarm/DW/everything else WAY too much power. You might as well leave Premature Burial at 1 and unban Monster Reborn...

(Oh, so that IS, you, Zaikiro! I thought so...hello again to you, too.)
 
Ichapokemr said:
I agree on Spirit Reaper and DD Assailant, and I now understand why you say Reflect at 2 (even though I still disagree). However:

1. Breaker should not be banned simply because it's only when normal summoned that it gets the counter.

2. Morphing Jan gives BOTH players 5 cards, so it can help both players...but it still helps out Dark World, so while close, it shouldn't be banned yet.

3. HFD unbanned?? That's just BEGGING for OTKs to revive.

4. Mirage should be semi-limited since it requires either getting a lucky early hand or managing to pull that 1 MST to avoid the drawback, especially if you're limiting Emergency Provisions.

5. ACK, 2 Premature Burials!?? No way. that gives Beatdown/Swarm/DW/everything else WAY too much power. You might as well leave Premature Burial at 1 and unban Monster Reborn...

(Oh, so that IS, you, Zaikiro! I thought so...hello again to you, too.)
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????

Breaker has it uses and gives avdtanges.

Morphing Jar gives a lot of combos. I would have picked Cyber Jar instead but I though it was more lethal.

HFD deserves it.....................somehow.

I agree with what you said about Mirage but Mirage is broken in it's own ways. It should remain at 1 or banned.

Your last comment. Premature Burial at 2 would give themes more play like you just said. So ins't that a good thing?

Ichapokemr said:
(Oh, so that IS, you, Zaikiro! I thought so...hello again to you, too.)
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The crappy banlist must had gave it away X;
 
...Sure, breaker might give advantage, but only with a normal summon, not a special via Cyber Jar, Premature, Call, etc. That's why it doesn't deserve to be banned.

I actually heard that Cyber Jar WILL be on the next banlist. Apparently they agree with you, but for the other side.

If you can't think of a good reason to unban HFD, then why do it?

Mirage...is like how Frostweaver described Reflect Bounder--it's too situational, and it'll often hurt more than help (unless you're using Dark World, in which case it becomes divine).

That comment about Premature Burial came out wrong, I suppose. It was more of a reference to the effect BLS had; it was pretty much GG unless you had one or made a deck to specifically counter it. 2 Prematures will have a similar effect. Sure, there's multiple S/T removal, but there was also multiple monster removal when BLS was around, and look where that got us.

Anyway, as far as the banlist, this is what I heard:

- Black Luster Soldier-Envoy of the Beginning (I know it's a WHAT THE!!???, but don't shoot the messenger)
- Graceful Charity
- Sinister Serpent
- Mirror Force
- Ring of Destruction
+ Cyber Jar
+ Cyber End Dragon
+ Dark Hole

I know, it seems dumb, but the person claimed that this was from a reliable source, so...
 
Ichapokemr said:
...Sure, breaker might give advantage, but only with a normal summon, not a special via Cyber Jar, Premature, Call, etc. That's why it doesn't deserve to be banned.
Good point.

I actually heard that Cyber Jar WILL be on the next banlist. Apparently they agree with you, but for the other side.
I still see Morphing Jar as ban worthy.

If you can't think of a good reason to unban HFD, then why do it?
I think it deserved it, I wanted a more of a M/T removal format than monster.
Mirage...is like how Frostweaver described Reflect Bounder--it's too situational, and it'll often hurt more than help (unless you're using Dark World, in which case it becomes divine).
Another factor is that it deck thins. Mirage is broken in it's ways by helping themes.

That comment about Premature Burial came out wrong, I suppose. It was more of a reference to the effect BLS had; it was pretty much GG unless you had one or made a deck to specifically counter it. 2 Prematures will have a similar effect. Sure, there's multiple S/T removal, but there was also multiple monster removal when BLS was around, and look where that got us.
I agree but people can counter it in the meta.

Anyway, as far as the banlist, this is what I heard:

- Black Luster Soldier-Envoy of the Beginning (I know it's a WHAT THE!!???, but don't shoot the messenger)
- Graceful Charity
- Sinister Serpent
- Mirror Force
- Ring of Destruction
+ Cyber Jar
+ Cyber End Dragon
+ Dark Hole

I know, it seems dumb, but the person claimed that this was from a reliable source, so...
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I don't see it as dumb. Cyber End Dragon could be restricted worthy but ban worthy is unnesseary. It did domiate in this format though.

Dark Hole needs no explaining at all on why it's banned. Lol Same for HFD >_>

Cyber Jar, mill is a bit dead but it can still work.'

What's comming off.

BLS is a no. Kevin Thwart endlessy ranted to get that card on the list. Knowing him he will just say a straright no. Then agian there is more than 1 person in UDE.

Sinister Serpent: <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3

Graceful Charity: Broken but I think Pot of Greed deserves the chance more.

Mirror Force & Ring of Destruction: Mirror Froce is unchainable like ring but I find it too overrated,

Ring of Desturution: It deserves it.

Besides Cyber End Dragon's banning I do like that list. It's not anything new so it's counterable.
 
Kyouraku said:
I don't see it as dumb. Cyber End Dragon could be restricted worthy but ban worthy is unnesseary. It did domiate in this format though.

Dark Hole needs no explaining at all on why it's banned. Lol Same for HFD >_>

Cyber Jar, mill is a bit dead but it can still work.'

What's comming off.

BLS is a no. Kevin Thwart endlessy ranted to get that card on the list. Knowing him he will just say a straright no. Then agian there is more than 1 person in UDE.

Sinister Serpent: <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3

Graceful Charity: Broken but I think Pot of Greed deserves the chance more.

Mirror Force & Ring of Destruction: Mirror Froce is unchainable like ring but I find it too overrated,

Ring of Desturution: It deserves it.

Besides Cyber End Dragon's banning I do like that list. It's not anything new so it's counterable.
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The dumb past WAS BLS (& maybe Ring) coming off.

Cyber Jar works in more than just mill (beatdown, swarm, any theme that requires deck thinning). It still shouldn't be banned, but that's what I heard.

Again, don't shoot the messenger. I heard BLS was being unbanned. I know that's incredibly unlikely, but with the Egyptian Demons apparently remaining UNLIMITED (yeah, that's right, 3 OF EACH PER DECK), who knows?

Graceful Charity at least requires you to discard, and it gives no change in advantage (-2 for discard, -1 for playing, +3 for draw=+0). Pot of Greed, on the other hand, is an instant +1 for no cost.

MF shouldn't have been banned in the first place, I suppose, but it & Cyber Jar together still creates a very dangerous combo. Ring, on the other hand, is too powerful, especially with the right cards (Unted We Stand & Mage Power + Ring + full field + Barrel Behind the Door = OTKO)...

Like I said, odd choices, but just what I heard. There were actually a couple more, but I can't remember right now (I seem to want to say Yata coming back for some reason)...
 
I guess it was wrong.

The new list just came.

Avdanced Fromat:

The Advanced Format will be used at premier events, and the World Championship.

ADVANCED FORMAT LIST EFFECTIVE APRIL 1st


I. Forbidden Cards

You cannot use these cards in your Deck or Side Deck:

Black Luster Soldier - Envoy of The Beginning
Butterfly Dagger - Elma
Change of Heart
Chaos Emperor Dragon - Envoy of The End
Cyber Jar
Dark Hole
Delinquent Duo
Exchange of The Spirit
Fiber Jar
Harpie's Feather Duster
Imperial Order
Last Turn
Magical Scientist
Makyura The Destructor
Mirage Of Nightmare
Monster Reborn
Painful Choice
Pot Of Greed
Raigeki
Ring Of Destruction
Sinister Serpent
The Forceful Sentry
Time Seal
Tribe-Infecting Virus
Witch Of The Black Forest
Yata-Garasu

NEW! - Cyber Jar, Dark Hole, Exchange of the Spirit, Last Turn, Time Seal


II. Limited Cards

You can ONLY use one of the following cards in the Deck & Side Deck combined:

Book of Moon
Breaker The Magical Warrior
Call Of The Haunted
Card Destruction
Ceasefire
Confiscation
D. D. Assailant
D. D. Warrior Lady
Dark Magician Of Chaos
Drop Off
Exiled Force
Exodia The Forbidden One
Graceful Charity
Heavy Storm
Injection Fairy Lily
Jinzo
Last Will
Left Arm Of The Forbidden One
Left Leg Of The Forbidden One
Level Limit - Area B
Lightning Vortex
Limiter Removal
Mage Power
Magic Cylinder
Mask Of Darkness
Metamorphosis
Mirror Force
Morphing Jar
Mystical Space Typhoon
Night Assailant
Pot Of Avarice
Premature Burial
Protector Of The Sanctuary
Reckless Greed
Right Arm Of The Forbidden One
Right Leg Of The Forbidden One
Sacred Phoenix Of Nephthys
Sangan
Scapegoat
Snatch Steal
Swords Of Revealing Light
Thousand-Eyes Restrict
Torrential Tribute
Treeborn Frog
Tsukuyomi
Twin-Headed Behemoth
United We Stand

NEW! - D. D. Assailant, Drop Off, Graceful Charity, Last Will, Level Limit - Area B, Mask of Darkness, Mirror Force, Pot of Avarice, Treeborn Frog


III. Semi-Limited Cards

You can ONLY use two of the following cards in the Deck & Side Deck combined:

Apprentice Magician
Creature Swap
Deck Devastation Virus
Emergency Provisions
Good Goblin Housekeeping
Gravity Bind
Magician Of Faith
Manticore Of Darkness
Nobleman Of Crossout
Reflect Bounder
Reinforcement Of The Army
Upstart Goblin

NEW! - Apprentice Magician, Deck Devastation Virus, Magician of Faith, Nobleman of Crossout, Reflect Bounder
NEW! - The following cards are no longer Limited: Abyss Soldier, Book of Taiyou

Traditional Fromat:

https://www.upperdeckentertainment.com/yugioh/en/forb_traditional_new.aspx

Some of my thoughts:
The list does not address any problems here exepct Warriors, Mearchant Pot Turbo and Frog/Monarch Control.

This format will be a interesting one.
 
Just when spellcasters are cheering for their superior boost with the new theme deck, they are hit badly again as their backbone, the apprentice toolbox, shall be nailed beyond death by Nobleman of Crossout in double. I can understand apprentice going down to 2, but nobleman of crossout up to 2 as well?

It's not bad of a list except for banning Exchange of the Spirit and up-ing Nobleman of Crossout... more detailed insights later.
 
*WARNING: RAMBLE*

About time they addressed the problem of Mask of Darkness...

MF is back...I'm starting to see a pattern of on, off, on, off,...any bets on it being banned October?

Graceful Charity is back, YAY!! And DD Assailant is finally limited! LET DARK WORLD SWARM!!!

Oh, and look, NOTHING ON RAVIEL, HAMON, OR URIA. We can guess what cards will be dominating this meta...

But I wish Cyber Jar was still around...and WHY BAN LAST TURN & EOTS AND LIMIT LAST WILL & LLAB???

So I was 50/50 on the reported ones...pretty good.

...I still argue the semilimiting of Reflect and MoF...and Apprentice (where're Giant Germ & Nimble Momonga??).
 
Mask of Darkness never created much outside of it's lock. It is a useable card but not as lethal as Magician of Faith. Unlike magician you have to set the trap card before it can be used. The list never fixed anything here. Konami wanted a golbal banlist >__>.
 
When Konami declares war on one decktype, every piece of it must die. Goat control was our last victim, and Victory Dragon is the martyr of today. Really, the banned pieces of Victory Dragon can barely do anything without the dragon itself. They could've easily got rid of Victory Dragon and leave everything else alone...

Not a good list except for dark hole, mirror force, reflect bounder, DD Assailant, Pot of Avarice, Treeborn Frog and Graceful Charity...
 
Graceful Charity was a mistake for sure.

Something interesting I though of. A new format is changing in ygo. Who does everyone think was think was the best member of that format. In ygo knowledge, skill, etc.
 
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