Team-Building Workshop

Anti · Jan 20, 2015

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[a id]purpose[/a id]

Purpose

Welcome to a new initiative here at PC, the Team-Building Workshop! The purpose of this thread is to encourage collaboration with team-building in order to make the process less daunting and to improve your building skills, as well as your teams themselves. Unlike RMTs, this thread's purpose is geared more toward helping teams that are "in process." Here are some examples of what types of requests or questions belong in this thread:

"I have a core of Pursuit Bisharp, Substitute/Calm Mind Keldeo, and Magma Storm Heatran, but I'm not sure if they fit well together. I kind of like them together, but something feels off. Is there any way to improve the synergy, and might there be glue Pokemon that could make them work without resorting to cookie cutter VoltTurn glue Pokemon?"
"I really want to build a stall team, but every time I build one, it gets destroyed by common stall-breaking like Mega Gardevoir, Manaphy, and Landorus, and it's very passive. Does anyone have any ideas? I know I want to use Mega Sableye to control the hazards game and a Clefable of some sort for its overall utility, but I don't even have their movesets and I'm stuck."
"I want to build around DD Charizard X but don't really know where to start."
"I have a solid team right now of Mega Metagross, Keldeo, Clefable, and Gliscor, but I am having trouble filling in the holes. I feel very Talonflame weak and fear that Waters like Slowbro walk all over it. Any advice?"

While not a specific rule, in general, if you have five or six Pokemon, it probably belongs in an individual RMT, though that is for you to decide. (In particular, an exception might be asking for help on a team that you had previously asked for help for in this thread.)

[a id]resources[/a id]

Resources

Hopefully, being able to ask these types of questions will demystify the team-building process and lead to better teams! Still, we ultimately want everyone to be somewhat independent, so some team-building resources are listed below. Many of them can also be found in the forum's Guidelines & Resources thread, but they are reposted here for convenience.

Smogon's Strategy Pokédex
Pokémon Showdown's Damage Calculator
Smogon's Usage Statistics
Smogon's ORAS OU Viability Rankings
ORAS OU Threat List
ORAS OU Team-Building Compendium

[a id]checklist[/a id]

Checklist

Along with the resources above, we thought it would be useful to provide a general checklist that you can use when building teams. This is very much in process, so feel free to suggest additions or changes.

Does your team have...

Stealth Rock?
Some form of hazard control or some way of minimizing the effects of opposing entry hazards?
A way to handle status? Note that Scald and Lava Plume should be considered here.
A way to force out or otherwise obstruct the most common and threatening Pokemon in the metagame? Consult the viability rankings listed above for reference.
Methods of defeating common team archetypes like rain offense, VoltTurn, BirdSpam, etc.?
A plan against stall teams?
Priority attacks, or some other way to revenge kill or do damage in a pinch?
Ways of working around Taunt and other stall-breaking Pokemon?
A strategy that it tries to execute rather than a team that merely anticipates other strategies?
One or more backup plans in case your strategy falls apart or has a bad match-up? Is your team flexible?

[a id]archive[/a id]

Archive

One way we want to encourage participation is by including a team archive that displays the best teams that have come out of the workshop. The BTB staff will determine which teams will be displayed in this archive. There have long been rumblings that this forum have its own team archive, so hopefully this satiates that demand!

None yet.

Nah · Jan 23, 2015

I guess I'll be the first to make use of this thread....

I started making (yet another) OU team the other day, but quickly got stuck. At the moment there's Black Kyurem, Mega Metagross, and Lando-T on the team. But I don't know where to go with it or if what I've already got is even decent. Also I really need to stop putting Lando-T onto every OU team I make. Help please?

Spoiler: Team Importable

Anti · Jan 23, 2015

well, this is looking like it's tryna go for balance or maybe bulky offense, so i'll be working under that assumption.

hmm, what drew you to the mons you chose? both individually (don't bother explaining mmeta, "he's totally borked" will do) and in terns of synergy. i'm mostly wondering about cube since he's an interesting breaker who i don't see much anymore. jw.

anyway, in terms of suggestions, metagross and cube can break down ferro a bit for each other with the right sets. right now, it's walling you, so i would consider hammer arm on metagross and/or hp fire on cube. i definitely like the latter option especially - hp fire allows cube to lure ferro (ice beam aint gonna cut it) as well as bulky mega scizor, who actually walls metagross pretty badly. it can even wear down opposing mmeta, who is freaking impossible to kill as it is. the downside is that it wears down your cube since realistically, it's gonna want to replace roost for hp fire, but it's not like it's much of a stallbreaker anymore anyway (walled by both stall blobs soooo...) so i wouldn't sweat it.

land-t is kind of a utility mon, and while very useful, i wouldn't recommend putting him in so early during building. since he's a glue, i would wait until, well, there are actually things to glue - you might find something else works better. not like he's a bad selection as it stands now.

anyway, since mmeta seems to be the centerpiece here, i would recommend anticipating battle scenarios that might pop up when using it. for example, esp post m-evo, you're gonna be seeing a lot of landorus-t. yeah, ice punch is there, but if it's the scarfer, you're going to have to switch it out. ditto with scarftran. these are the two scarfers i would concern yourself with - you want *reliable* switches into them. your own land-t, should you keep it, is actually plenty fine for opposing ones - easily sponges uturn, eq (lol), even knock. scarftran is more difficult. sdef talon can do that (watch out for ancientpower) and can also handle prankster m sab burns, which you need to be ready for. you'll lose to cm sab unless you run sd tho. azumarill sounds like a really great choice here. can sweep with bd or break with cb (i prefer the latter but it's your call) while a (much) more defensive option is slowbro, or av azum can work too. gyarados is another choice if you really go the offensive route - just note it won't be switching in more than like, once. starmie is a splendid option here since it can spin for your cube and also absorbs scald burns aimed at meta nicely (another thing to be prepped for, though cube is decent enough at absorbing these i guess).

would talk more but i kinda have to go liiiike now, hope that was somewhat helpful but yeah always nice to see a cube and his 3875734 bst.

Nah · Jan 23, 2015

Anti said:
well, this is looking like it's tryna go for balance or maybe bulky offense, so i'll be working under that assumption.

hmm, what drew you to the mons you chose? both individually (don't bother explaining mmeta, "he's totally borked" will do) and in terns of synergy. i'm mostly wondering about cube since he's an interesting breaker who i don't see much anymore. jw.

anyway, in terms of suggestions, metagross and cube can break down ferro a bit for each other with the right sets. right now, it's walling you, so i would consider hammer arm on metagross and/or hp fire on cube. i definitely like the latter option especially - hp fire allows cube to lure ferro (ice beam aint gonna cut it) as well as bulky mega scizor, who actually walls metagross pretty badly. it can even wear down opposing mmeta, who is freaking impossible to kill as it is. the downside is that it wears down your cube since realistically, it's gonna want to replace roost for hp fire, but it's not like it's much of a stallbreaker anymore anyway (walled by both stall blobs soooo...) so i wouldn't sweat it.

land-t is kind of a utility mon, and while very useful, i wouldn't recommend putting him in so early during building. since he's a glue, i would wait until, well, there are actually things to glue - you might find something else works better. not like he's a bad selection as it stands now.

anyway, since mmeta seems to be the centerpiece here, i would recommend anticipating battle scenarios that might pop up when using it. for example, esp post m-evo, you're gonna be seeing a lot of landorus-t. yeah, ice punch is there, but if it's the scarfer, you're going to have to switch it out. ditto with scarftran. these are the two scarfers i would concern yourself with - you want *reliable* switches into them. your own land-t, should you keep it, is actually plenty fine for opposing ones - easily sponges uturn, eq (lol), even knock. scarftran is more difficult. sdef talon can do that (watch out for ancientpower) and can also handle prankster m sab burns, which you need to be ready for. you'll lose to cm sab unless you run sd tho. azumarill sounds like a really great choice here. can sweep with bd or break with cb (i prefer the latter but it's your call) while a (much) more defensive option is slowbro, or av azum can work too. gyarados is another choice if you really go the offensive route - just note it won't be switching in more than like, once. starmie is a splendid option here since it can spin for your cube and also absorbs scald burns aimed at meta nicely (another thing to be prepped for, though cube is decent enough at absorbing these i guess).

would talk more but i kinda have to go liiiike now, hope that was somewhat helpful but yeah always nice to see a cube and his 3875734 bst.

Goin' more for bulky offense here.

I picked Kyu because it's a poke that I've always liked (both for non-competitive and competitive reasons) and that set seemed kinda interesting, not to mention that I need something against stall. Put in Mega Meta to handle Dragon, Fairy, and Rock hits for Kyu (that and it's really good). HP Fire sounds like a good idea on Kyu, I just hope that it doesn't miss Roost too much.

I think that I'll put Azu on the team but take out Lando-T for now and see where things go. Would it be a good idea to put Starmie on the team if I have Azu though or should I try a different spinner/defogger?

Anti · Jan 23, 2015

starmie isn't a terrible fit, especially since you will need a better keld check than azumarill and its ability to deal with scald is also nice. the only thing is, you're already pretty bad vs. fast electrics like mega manectric (cube is gonna get voltturned to hell, which is where you miss roost but ehhhh what can you do). one way to work around that could be running offensive spin star with hp fire as a coverage option to free up the roost slot, but honestly, with SR and a little prior damage, cube is losing anyway so i would just be mindful in general that you need something for this. one choice for dealing with this might be something like mamo though i tend to struggle checking these guys myself. hippowdon is probably too bulky for this team but might need consideration. i'm not so sure.

i'm kinda making this up as i go - i'm traveling tomorrow and can give it a little more thought in the downtime known as "bud rides" and give you superior analysis to w/e i'm saying now. i'd say that i really like the azumarill/metagross core, and i think cube can work just gotta get the support right. something like scarf might be in its future here idk like i said i'll get back to you.

u may wanna check out the last resource listed (newly added) - really nice resource just to have everything in the same place and grouped more than the viability rankings or the smogon dex do.

Nah · Jan 23, 2015

That new resource you listed looks really nice Anti (ignoring the fact that it has Ferroseed on it tho XD ).

So I've filled the team up now, looks like this:

Spoiler:

Made Azu a CB one, though I'm still wondering if I could go AV with it too. Added defensive Heatran for setting rocks, being a birdspam check and absorbing Fire/WoW, put in CM Lando-I to be an Electric and Ground immunity (though admittedly that's a bit of a shaky answer to MegaManectric/Thundurus), and then bulky Starmie to spin and check Keldeo like you said. Though something doesn't feel quite right. Actually Mega Lop might be a problem. But I think that there's more problems than that.

Not like you have to deal with this immediately Anti. It'd be great if some other people got in here and lent a hand too =p

srinator · Jan 24, 2015

The team is very rain weak, esp Kingdra+mega pert cores. Also I think a more offensive starmie would really be better than the hp/speed version ur using right now.

Nah · Jan 24, 2015

srinator said:
The team is very rain weak, esp Kingdra+mega pert cores. Also I think a more offensive starmie would really be better than the hp/speed version ur using right now.

Any ideas on how to deal with that? And I'll consider a more offensive Starmie.

Cosmic Neon · Jan 24, 2015

I need help, I want to build a VGC team, but I've never even built a Doubles team before...

Meowstic(F) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Competitive
Nature: Timid
EV's: 252 Speed 252 Sp. Atk 4 HP
-Psyshock
-Hidden Power (Ice)
-Energy Ball
-Trick

I would like to build a team around this set, would you happen to know where I should begin as far as teammates go?

Breeder Mac · Jan 24, 2015

I wanted to build a mega zard x team and I am not sure if my pokemon right now work together and what I should use for the last 2 slots.

Spoiler:

I tend to like bulky offensive pokes, but I have no problem using whatever works out to be the best combo of pokes. Any thoughts/opinions would be most welcome.

Nah · Jan 24, 2015

Cosmic Neon said:
I need help, I want to build a VGC team, but I've never even built a Doubles team before...

Meowstic(F) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Competitive
Nature: Timid
EV's: 252 Speed 252 Sp. Atk 4 HP
-Psyshock
-Hidden Power (Ice)
-Energy Ball
-Trick

I would like to build a team around this set, would you happen to know where I should begin as far as teammates go?

A good place to start would be with a Follow Me Togekiss, to keep Dark, Ghost, and Bug attacks away from Meowstic. Togekiss resists two of those and has pretty good bulk (and is immune to the common Earthquake), and Follow Me/Rage Powder stuff is really useful in general.

Togekiss @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 248 HP / 192 Def / 68 SpD
Calm Nature
- Follow Me
- Air Slash
- Tailwind/Thunder Wave
- Helping Hand/Roost/Protect

Next thing you might want is a Heat Wave Pokemon, since Meowstic and Togekiss struggle against Steel types, not to mention that spread moves are always good to have in Doubles. MixApe, Heatran, Volcarona, and Mega Zard Y are some possible choices there for you.

Cosmic Neon · Jan 24, 2015

Zekrom said:
A good place to start would be with a Follow Me Togekiss, to keep Dark, Ghost, and Bug attacks away from Meowstic. Togekiss resists two of those and has pretty good bulk (and is immune to the common Earthquake), and Follow Me/Rage Powder stuff is really useful in general.

Togekiss @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 248 HP / 192 Def / 68 SpD
Calm Nature
- Follow Me
- Air Slash
- Tailwind/Thunder Wave
- Helping Hand/Roost/Protect

Next thing you might want is a Heat Wave Pokemon, since Meowstic and Togekiss struggle against Steel types, not to mention that spread moves are always good to have in Doubles. MixApe, Heatran, Volcarona, and Mega Zard Y are some possible choices there for you.

Oh ok, I know I was really thinking about Mega Audino for Helping Hand + Thunder Wave... but people on other sites just tell me it's a huge waste of a Mega (which is a shame considering it's actually one of my favorite Mega Evolutions) :(

Anyways, I see what you're talking about. Could Garchomp be a good partner as well? I know Intimidate and Will-o-Wisp are ever present, but Togekiss's Follow Me could help with stopping burns. As well as the EQ immunity... or would Rock Slide be a better choice for if I go up against Talonflame and Mega Charizard Y?

Anti · Jan 24, 2015

Zekrom said:
stuff

Yeah as sri noticed with rain (and you hinted at with Mega Lopunny), there's a pretty substantial HO weakness here. Bisharp in particular is an issue. I think the reason for this is a combination of poor defensive capacity and a team that is slow overall. Cube is getting worn down really fast from LO and SR, and Landorus is very poor defensively. This might just be me, but I really only like to have one defensive liability on a team, as after that, you just start to become metagame weak from the sheer volume of threats you have to cover in four slots. I wouldn't run Cube AND Lando. Both are going to get rolled by faster teams. (This is even more important since your bulky mons like Azumarill and Meta have no recovery and are therefore quite easy to wear down themselves.) Your team isn't fast enough, meanwhile, to really push its momentum against HO builds. I would either make the team faster or bulkier, starting with the Cube/Land replacement and maybe reconsidering the additional mons (not because they're bad but because you should be adaptable for synergy purposes).

I can be more specific with changes if you'd like, but I do have a tendency to suggest standard things so I don't wanna drown out what you want at all.

Breeder Mac said:
stuff

Zard-X! Great choice - threatens a ton of teams. First, I would consider running Jolly to outspeed Scarf Landorus-T, though this will depend on Zard's teammates. The two attacking moves are always interesting. I think the standard is Blitz/Claw since they're both strong STABs and Heatran can be lured. You actually have Gengar to do that already - Focus Blast shreds it, and sacking Gengar to bring Heatran down to ~20% health may well be worth it. Of course, the advantage of EQ on Zard is that it really opens things up for Gengar. You could maybe even try Blitz/Quake coverage on Zard, though that is admittedly quite daring and experimental. Regardless, they're a nice duo. (Archer covered the inadequacy of the other two just fine.)

I think Bisharp is an intriguing Pokemon to pair with them, but then you're beginning to get into HO territory. If you want to go a bulkier route, I think that a cool partner might be Tornadus-T (either LO or AV), as it can Knock Off Heatrans and give you some momentum to get Gengar and Zard in safely. Azumarill could be cool as well, as it has nice defensive synergy with both mons and can tag-team opposing Ferrothorns with Gar, wearing them down with CB or AV. On a more defensive front, Ferrothorn, as Archer said, is a nice glue poke, but it remains passive as balls and might be too defensive for what you're looking for. Celebi works but compounds weaknesses that Ferro can help with more (in particular Mega Gyarados). Magnezone is always an option for some neo gen 4 shenanigans with Gar+DragMag which still works well.

Kind of threw a lot out there - tell me what (if anything) you like and we can work from there.

Also, glad to see some other voices and opinions. Yay!

Nah · Jan 24, 2015

Cosmic Neon said:
Oh ok, I know I was really thinking about Mega Audino for Helping Hand + Thunder Wave... but people on other sites just tell me it's a huge waste of a Mega (which is a shame considering it's actually one of my favorite Mega Evolutions) :(

Anyways, I see what you're talking about. Could Garchomp be a good partner as well? I know Intimidate and Will-o-Wisp are ever present, but Togekiss's Follow Me could help with stopping burns. As well as the EQ immunity... or would Rock Slide be a better choice for if I go up against Talonflame and Mega Charizard Y?

I've never used Mega Audino, never really looked into it, so I can't comment on it.

But Garchomp is nice too. Gives you a physical attacker and spread moves. And yeah you'll want Rock Slide on it since Talonflame and Mega Zard y are pretty common. Might wanna throw in a Steel poke or something to deal with Fairies since Togekiss can't help out too much there.

You'll also need to prepare for rain and sun teams cuz those are pretty common too iirc.

Anti said:
Yeah as sri noticed with rain (and you hinted at with Mega Lopunny), there's a pretty substantial HO weakness here. Bisharp in particular is an issue. I think the reason for this is a combination of poor defensive capacity and a team that is slow overall. Cube is getting worn down really fast from LO and SR, and Landorus is very poor defensively. This might just be me, but I really only like to have one defensive liability on a team, as after that, you just start to become metagame weak from the sheer volume of threats you have to cover in four slots. I wouldn't run Cube AND Lando. Both are going to get rolled by faster teams. (This is even more important since your bulky mons like Azumarill and Meta have no recovery and are therefore quite easy to wear down themselves.) Your team isn't fast enough, meanwhile, to really push its momentum against HO builds. I would either make the team faster or bulkier, starting with the Cube/Land replacement and maybe reconsidering the additional mons (not because they're bad but because you should be adaptable for synergy purposes).

I can be more specific with changes if you'd like, but I do have a tendency to suggest standard things so I don't wanna drown out what you want at all.

I would like to keep Kyu if possible (though I'm not opposed to using a different set on it), but I'm open to replacing anything else. And more specifics would be nice; I think leaving it up to me isn't going to result in anything better really.

Cosmic Neon · Jan 24, 2015

Zekrom said:
I've never used Mega Audino, never really looked into it, so I can't comment on it.

Me neither, but I have one right now that's ready for Doubles.

Mega Audino @ Audinite
Ability: Healer
Nature: Bold
EV's: 252 HP 252 Defense 4 Sp. Def
-Dazzling Gleam
-Helping Hand
-Thunder Wave
-Protect

I'm pretty sure I need to give it a different EV spread, but I came up with this set on my own.

All digressing aside... I would now have Meowstic(F), Togekiss, and Garchomp. Before I move forward with other partners I need a good Garchomp set, I was thinking:

Garchomp @ Leftovers/Rocky Helmet
Ability: Rough Skin
Nature: Adamant
EV's: 252 HP 252 Attack 4 Defense
-Rock Slide
-Dragon Claw
-Fire Fang
-Protect

Again, I probably need a better EV spread.

Breeder Mac · Jan 24, 2015

Anti said:
Zard-X! Great choice - threatens a ton of teams. First, I would consider running Jolly to outspeed Scarf Landorus-T, though this will depend on Zard's teammates. The two attacking moves are always interesting. I think the standard is Blitz/Claw since they're both strong STABs and Heatran can be lured. You actually have Gengar to do that already - Focus Blast shreds it, and sacking Gengar to bring Heatran down to ~20% health may well be worth it. Of course, the advantage of EQ on Zard is that it really opens things up for Gengar. You could maybe even try Blitz/Quake coverage on Zard, though that is admittedly quite daring and experimental. Regardless, they're a nice duo. (Archer covered the inadequacy of the other two just fine.)

I think Bisharp is an intriguing Pokemon to pair with them, but then you're beginning to get into HO territory. If you want to go a bulkier route, I think that a cool partner might be Tornadus-T (either LO or AV), as it can Knock Off Heatrans and give you some momentum to get Gengar and Zard in safely. Azumarill could be cool as well, as it has nice defensive synergy with both mons and can tag-team opposing Ferrothorns with Gar, wearing them down with CB or AV. On a more defensive front, Ferrothorn, as Archer said, is a nice glue poke, but it remains passive as balls and might be too defensive for what you're looking for. Celebi works but compounds weaknesses that Ferro can help with more (in particular Mega Gyarados). Magnezone is always an option for some neo gen 4 shenanigans with Gar+DragMag which still works well.

Kind of threw a lot out there - tell me what (if anything) you like and we can work from there.

I know those 2 aren't the greatest but I was trying to think outside of the box and trying to use something ppl won't be expecting or rarely see and take him/her by surprise. I probably should've said that I like to use something a little less conventional cuz I hate seeing the same old pokes over and over. But what your suggesting is something like Zard X, LO Gengar, AV Tornad-t/azu, ferro, magnezone? I do like the av azu as I have been thinking bout using him on a team eventually so that would work. Im not so big on ferro and mag but if they happen to be the best to use then Im all for it. But I know that zard needs a spinner/defogger so I was wondering if a defog scizor would work. Typically when I run him its:
Scizor @Leftovers
Impish 248HP/ 252Def/ 8Spd
Technician
- Bullet Punch
- U-Turn
- Roost
- Defog
Or would a more physical spread be better with max hp, max atk and adamant nature?

Nah · Jan 24, 2015

Cosmic Neon said:
Me neither, but I have one right now that's ready for Doubles.

Mega Audino @ Audinite
Ability: Healer
Nature: Bold
EV's: 252 HP 252 Defense 4 Sp. Def
-Dazzling Gleam
-Helping Hand
-Thunder Wave
-Protect

I'm pretty sure I need to give it a different EV spread, but I came up with this set on my own.

All digressing aside... I would now have Meowstic(F), Togekiss, and Garchomp. Before I move forward with other partners I need a good Garchomp set, I was thinking:

Garchomp @ Leftovers/Rocky Helmet
Ability: Rough Skin
Nature: Adamant
EV's: 252 HP 252 Attack 4 Defense
-Rock Slide
-Dragon Claw
-Fire Fang
-Protect

Again, I probably need a better EV spread.

That Mega Audino spread iiiiiiiis probably fine.

As for Garchomp, you'll wanna use a 252 Attack/252 Speed/4 Sp.Defense spread with Jolly, to make use of Garchomp's relatively good Speed stat. You'll also wanna to run Earthquake over Fire Fang; you need the spread and the coverage, other teammates can handle fire stuff instead.

Cosmic Neon · Jan 24, 2015

Zekrom said:
As for Garchomp, you'll wanna use a 252 Attack/252 Speed/4 Sp.Defense spread with Jolly, to make use of Garchomp's relatively good Speed stat. You'll also wanna to run Earthquake over Fire Fang; you need the spread and the coverage, other teammates can handle fire stuff instead.

Hmmm, I guess I was just thinking about relying on Tailwind for the speed, may not be a good thing to do now that I think about it. As for dealing with weather, I was wondering if there are any viable Pokemon with Cloud Nine, either that, or I can add my own weather setter.

srinator · Jan 24, 2015

Zekrom said:
<needs better way of tagging people>

its your team so it is up to you how it should look but i will try to explain how each slot should/could be used if your making the team around metagross and kyurem black ( both very hard hitters so i shall go for a more offensive team,I don't really ho much so if the end product looks like ho, well yay? lol)
ok since every team needs a rock setter, we could go for a rock setter that could also force swwitches on metagross and cube's switch in's. also apply more general pressure etc. ferrothorn seems to run 128 spd ev's to avoid the 2hko from lo ice beam, hp fire is actually great since it lets it hit scizor ferro etc, i have never seen hp fire kyurem before but i think everything runs hp fire now .-. anyway metagross would appreciate something that could remove walls skarm etc esp if kyurem is down since lo wears it down too fast. heatran/azelf/mixape/lando-i would be really good setters here. i would prefer something from either lando-i or azelf.

if you look at the team it seems extremely bisharp weak, so a dark resist would be really helpful along with something that could beat mega sableye, opposing metagross could also be a problem since it can carry ice punch (and that speed .-.), would be cool if u have eq on ur meta. sub cm keldeo would be nice since it can act as a stall breaker, dark resist but i am not sure if it can beat mega sableye effectively.

Spoiler:

so kyurem,meta,lando/azelf,keldeo

lando and keldeo should help you dent on stall, so nnow we need to beat more offensive/hyper offensive teams esp volt turn teams (mega man,scarf lando, wash, scizor etc). i saw people run band pursuit scizor again for meta lol! also you need to remove your hazards for cube. you could try ass vest exca if u like but i dont oh even defog scizor can be used, anyway starmie would be cool as it acts as a keld check/water resist in general and remove hazards. you are still weak t volt turn but lets address that later.

cube,meta,lando i/azelf,keldeo,(hazard remover)
your sixth slot would really need a glue mon like lando which could act as a pseudo bird check but this team gain seems rain weak so you could consider breloom. sash set seems cool since starmie (if u choose that can actually take status moves) and you dont really need the sd poison heal set since you beat stall enough already. you are also very weak to the char megas, so thats another point to lando for rk purposes. gyarados is also cool option and could act as a mixed wall (lol?) or as a bulky set up mon, other than those mons i can only think about scarf heatran (Which is really a god) and uh azu, i could say more but i think thats all i can recollect rn for offensive.

anyone is welcome to point out any errors I have made in assumptions or have ideas on better and more effective mons.

Spoiler:

Anti · Jan 25, 2015

Breeder Mac said:
I know those 2 aren't the greatest but I was trying to think outside of the box and trying to use something ppl won't be expecting or rarely see and take him/her by surprise. I probably should've said that I like to use something a little less conventional cuz I hate seeing the same old pokes over and over. But what your suggesting is something like Zard X, LO Gengar, AV Tornad-t/azu, ferro, magnezone? I do like the av azu as I have been thinking bout using him on a team eventually so that would work. Im not so big on ferro and mag but if they happen to be the best to use then Im all for it. But I know that zard needs a spinner/defogger so I was wondering if a defog scizor would work. Typically when I run him its:
Scizor @Leftovers
Impish 248HP/ 252Def/ 8Spd
Technician
- Bullet Punch
- U-Turn
- Roost
- Defog
Or would a more physical spread be better with max hp, max atk and adamant nature?

I don't love Scizor as a Defogger, but you can never have too many MMeta checks. Worth a shot, certainly.

To clarify, the mons I suggested were independent of one another (I don't rly like Ferro/Mag on this team together etc.) but yeah I think Azumarill would be a good choice. I think it's really great in this meta, though I would experiment with all of its sets just to see what works well.

With that core, you'd want some VoltTurn coverage as your first priority, as well as your own rox. I do think that together Scizor and Azumarill might make your team a little slow, which is something to look out for. (Sort of depends on how much you like speedy teams, but thought I'd throw it out there.)

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@Zekrom:

Well, building around Kyurem-B can be a little tricky, but it's certainly doable. If I were building this like my team (and assuming MMeta as well), here's how I'd look at it:

With Cube, I think that on stall, I'll be drawing an initial switch-in of Clefable and then Chansey once the set is scouted. Ferrothorn is another Pokemon to watch out for. Against balance, I would expect a lot of Clefs and Ferros, while also being mindful that Keldeo, Latias, and Mega Gardevoir can RK me. As you get more offensive opposition, you'll be more worried about getting Cube in at all, while also worrying about Latios, Scarftran, Scarf Landorus-T, etc. (which are often found on bulkier builds as well).

Mega Metagross helps with a lot of these threats and allows you to keep momentum fairly well, though you may want backup checks since you won't want it worn down. Looking at the core as a whole, I notice that Chansey (and stall more generally) will need to be addressed: Cube is not a stall breaker, but a balance breaker. If you wanna run your original set with Roost>>>HP Fire, I may consider that just to keep it healthy. I think mons that die in two or three turns tend to be quite poor choices, usually, and I would opt for Roost. (Taking back my previous suggestion, basically.) Anyway, Mega Metagross is also a balance breaker, and they form a nice core against teams that make up a big chunk of the metagame.

Meanwhile, Meta draws in Scizor, Ferro, Landorus-T, Hippowdon, Suicune, and Slowbro. I would pay special attention to Mega Slowbro, who you will want a very solid answer to. Cube can wear down Ferro decently, but you'll want something that isn't bugged too much by Leech Seed (doesn't have to be a Grass-type, defensive Heatran is such an example), a very strong Mega Scizor counter, and a plan for Scarf Land-T. Scarf Magnezone can annoy this core as well.

So as a "checklist" of stuff to cover, I might have:

general:
- Rain (have a check for its sweepers)
- HO (surround the two with either bulk or Speed - seems like you'd prefer bulk)
- Stall (counterteam this with a stallbreaker)
specific:
- Scarf versions of Heatran, Magnezone, Landorus-T
- Latis check to save Metagross
- Opposing MMetas
- Mega Scizor
- Keldeo
still need:
- SR/hazard control (esp. w/ Cube)

Just off the top of my head. Such a long list is normal - you only have two mons.

I'd worry about stall later and deal with the offensive checks first, as they are more common and seize more momentum in battle situations. You won't really find a blanket check to these, but something to handle offensive Fire-types would be good. sri mentioned Keld, who obviously pairs very well with MMeta. I actually like Slowbro (or even AV Slowking lol) as well if you wanna go more defensive: it doesn't wear down so easily, can spread paralysis, can shakily check Keldeo, MMeta, etc., and more generally just gives you a very nice defensive backbone. It won't be helping you against VoltTurn mons, but it covers a lot of the other holes. More offensively, Starmie can do some of these things (but not all) while providing a little more Speed. I think Slowbro is a better fit, but you *will* need a spinner w/ Cube and even Meta, sooo...

Have to go, but hopefully that's a decent enough start in the specificity department. Will return sometime later to add on.

(just to clarify not disagreeing w/ sriface just providing more options/opinions/blah blah blah since it's your team etc.)

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