The End of America

[Livewire]

Based on a rather intriguing documentary on the History Channel called the "Prophets of Doom." Which has nothing to do with 2012, mind you.

Today's world has troubles unique to its time in history, from the global financial crisis to technological meltdowns to full scale, computerized global war. Observing the convergence of such events, contemporary prophets have begun to emerge from obscurity to suggest that these conditions might be signs of the demise of the modern world. These men are historians as well, using all manner of information and patterns from the past to provide context for where we are going. Their predictions interpret the current state of affairs in our world as evidence that the America we know may come to an end. The men proposing these ideas are not crackpots living on the streets of New York; they are intelligent, learned men who come armed with the evidence to back up their claims.

According to the various economical, political and historical minds present, Human Civilization, in particular American/Western Civilization, is on a crash course to collapse, and that unless something is done, America will fall- just as every other empire in history has, unless great and drastic steps are taken to save it from itself.

The documentary cites a wide array of factors, from the current global economical situation, to America's infrastructure, political atmosphere, geographical and environmental issues, and history itself. It begins by making comparisons to the Roman Empire, the greatest empire of antiquity. Both America and Rome were fabulously wealthy nations, with a great expanse of territory, and a sophisticated culture. But, they were and are, both victims of thier own excess and success. Rome fell in 476 AD, after several centuries of turmoil. Repeated barbarian invasion, a stretched out and weary military, and rampant political corruption and public apathy on the home-front, all contributed to the collapse of the empire. America faces almost the exact same set of problems- Terrorism (and the threat of repeated attacks) a thinly stretched military (Iraq, Afghanistan, other hot spots) political infighting and corruption (Extreme Partisanship, repeated Wall Street and Political scandal) and apathy and indifference to the major issues facing the country. Rome is not the only example of the rise and fall of empire, it is a fundamental truth of human civilization- that based on several internal and external factors, empires rise and fall.



America's greatest threat doesn't reside in a foreign capital, it resides within the country itself, with a laundry list of contributing factors.

Example:

Example:

Example:

1. The rapid decline of fossil fuel, and the lack of alternate resources. 2. The water crisis currently effecting the South west, AZ, CA, NM, NE, etc. 3. The current political landscape. 4. America's rapidly decaying infrastructure. 5. The global economical situation and Recession. 6. The possibility of Nuclear Warfare. 7. Virulent Pandemics and bacterial-resistant diseases. 8. Apathy. 9. Over-population and food shortage(s) 10. Heavy dependence on technology for basic function.

Is America, and by extension the rest of the world, headed down a path towards collapse, based on our own choices? What can and has be done, to ensure that we don't go down that path?

Discuss.

 

[Griffinbane]

1. The rapid decline of fossil fuel, and the lack of alternate resources.

People are only -starting- to shift to alternate fuels as more and more people realize how bad fossil fuels are for the environment. Not only that, the rising costs of fossil fuels are an incentive to switching because many Americans tend to respond when their wallet gets hit. =/ The bright side is, we ARE slowly, but steadily switching to alternate fuels. The problem is, the growth of alternate fuels is very slow right now. We can't switch all in one day because of infrastructure changes (obviously) and because there isn't enough alt fuel to sustain the country. The US is the biggest waster of energy, each US household eats up several times more energy than just about every other household in other developed countries. Consume, consume, consume. Anyone up for a game of Pac-Man?

3. The current political landscape.

I'm all for kicking every single one of them out and replacing them. I refuse to vote anymore because both sides are horrible and no matter who manages to win the majority, the minority will keep on trying to block what the majority will do. It happened back when Bush was President and Dems were blocking the Republican majority, it's happening now with Obama in Presidency and the Republicans blocking the Democratic majority. I'm a serious believer that the political structure was not built for a 2 party system, rather it was built for a multiple party system.

6. The possibility of Nuclear Warfare.

The biggest advantage the US has over other countries with atomic weapon is landmass. You'll need a LOT of bombs in order to force the US to a standstill compared to a country the size of North Korea or Iran. Our population density is also more spread out than theirs. Lucky us. =/

7. Virulent Pandemics and bacterial-resistant diseases.

We're nowhere nearly as bad off as places like India or Indonesia. There's rules in place that helps stem overtreatment with antibiotics, thankfully. In places like India, there tends to be widespread use of antibiotics and very little oversite over usage, creating very resistant bugs. The biggest issue is someone from the US going over to some third world country for some medical procedure and returning back to the US with an extremely resistant strain of bacteria. There was actually a news article about this some time back, but I can't seem to find it. /shrug

9. Over-population and food shortage(s)

Uhm...not so much here in the US. Oh yeah, there are food shortages...but that's mainly because of bad distribution. And money. Our obesity rate is what, 50% now? Fatties.

I highly doubt the whole world is going down the path of societal collapse due to these factors. It's true that empires rise and fall...but that's the thing, empires rise...and fall. If the US collapses, eventually another empire will rise and become "greater" than the US. If anything, the world will collapse either once we run out of fossil fuels or once just about everything starts dying off from extremely bad pollution. I think humankind's greatest fallacy is that we, as a race, are unable to consider the far future. We only see now and the near future, aka merely a few decades into the future, max. We don't consider what could happen as a result of our actions in a mere century from now, much less further on. People are more concerned about their comforts NOW. Arguments about pollution and climate change are a reflection of this. Our generation will largely be unaffected by what's going on now, but give it 200-300 years and much will change and not likely for the better.

Griff has a headache from thinking too much and trying to recall what she was forced to read in school. Bedtime.

 

[Livewire]

We're nowhere nearly as bad off as places like India or Indonesia. There's rules in place that helps stem overtreatment with antibiotics, thankfully. In places like India, there tends to be widespread use of antibiotics and very little oversite over usage, creating very resistant bugs. The biggest issue is someone from the US going over to some third world country for some medical procedure and returning back to the US with an extremely resistant strain of bacteria. There was actually a news article about this some time back, but I can't seem to find it. /shrug

True, we've got it made compared to lesser developed Asian countries like India/Indonesia/China, but It's here too. Thousands of people die from drug resistant forms of Staph and MRSA infections in American hospitals every year, and there are strains of Tuberculosis that are completely resistant to antibiotics, that have been circulating around the US recently, so you never know. :/

 

[Mario The World Champion]

Oh, great. Here we go again with more doomsday crap from History. They have become nothing but damn fearmongers. They should go back to showing World War II stuff like they did before.

However, I will comment on some of the things you pointed out.

1. The rapid decline of fossil fuel, and the lack of alternate resources.
We should have focused on finding alternative resources years ago. We are starting to do stuff to find alternative resources. I like Wind and Solar power and Massachusetts IS trying to build a wind farm around Cape Cod, but you got morons in power who don't want the beautiful land to be ruined by big fans. That's bullcrap.

3. The current political landscape.
Both parties need to be shot and killed. You want to know why this country's going down the toilet? Just look at the morons we got running this country! Nobody wants to compromise because of fear of being alienated by their own party. Republicans and Democrats need to be put to sleep inhumanely!

4. America's rapidly decaying infrastructure.
Chalk this one to the idiots we got in political offices in local and state offices. There are people researching how to improve everything from road and bridges to electrical and communications, but where are we going to get the money when senators are asking for money for crap that's irrelevant?

5. The global economical situation and Recession.
I'm still hurting from the damn recession and I would like to get my hands on everybody who started this mess and beat the crap out of them! We're still losing jobs, jobs are STILL going overseas because companies are too damn cheap now and backroom deals are still behind made to help the fat cats and screw us normal people.

6. The possibility of Nuclear Warfare.
I don't think anybody who leads a country right now is that stupid to start a nuclear war. Anybody who has a somewhat functioning brain knows that whoever launches a nuke at somebody, will no doubt start World War III and kill everybody in the world. Dismantling of Nuclear warheads by all countries who have nukes is key.

However, Pakistan has nukes and that country is pretty much screwed. And knowing Al-Qaida, they'll love to launch one at the U.S., forcing us to launch nukes and then the whole world will do the same.

7. Virulent Pandemics and bacterial-resistant diseases.
I hate to say this, but we need more viral attacks to lower the population. Call me cruel, but that's how I feel. Maybe we'll have the next generation of scientists fight those newer diseases and discover the future of medicine for the benefit of all mankind.

8. Apathy.
You're talking about how us Americans are too lazy these days, right? That's true. The rest of the world is now catching up with us and we're losing jobs and our former advantages to places like China and India. The reason is, what else can we do? We are pretty much tapped out and we're just letting the world overtake us. We kind of need a good ass whipping anyway for being so arrogant.

9. Over-population and food shortage(s)
Sorry to say this, but we need some real major natural disasters to make a dent in lowering the world's population. Or some genocidal attacks. Or World War III. Or 2012. Now for food... we Americans need to stop getting fat.

10. Heavy dependence on technology for basic function.
The day we are too lazy to get up and get a drink from the fridge is the day I kill myself.

Okay, I'm done. However, I will say this. America needs a very hard kick in the nuts. A major kick. A wake up call.

 

[FreakyLocz14]

I've never heard of the U.S. having to endure any barbarian invasions.

I believe that it's very possible that the United States could collapse; but I doubt it would happen in my lifetime.

 

[Morgnarok]

The whole world is going to die due to depend on to much dang tech.When the solar flares come in 2012 its the end of us.

 

[Livewire]

I've never heard of the U.S. having to endure any barbarian invasions.

I believe that it's very possible that the United States could collapse; but I doubt it would happen in my lifetime.

Barbarian (Germanic Tribes) are to Rome as Terrorists are to the USA.

Basically it just shows external invasions/repeated attacks, just by different groups.

 

[Hyperion09]

The whole world is going to die due to depend on to much dang tech.When the solar flares come in 2012 its the end of us.

I am really hoping you're just messing about.

 

[Sara Yamamoto]

Goin with what Live_Wire said, there is evidence that sun spots are on the sun as we approch the year 2012. I learned in astronomy last year that more sun spots lead to more solar flares.

 

[Livewire]

Goin with what Live_Wire said, there is evidence that sun spots are on the sun as we approch the year 2012. I learned in astronomy last year that more sun spots lead to more solar flares.

The Solar maximum is slated to happen around 2012, but it's highly speculative at this point.

If anything, I'd be more worried about the earthly factors first, the economy, environment, political dealings, etc.

 

[Fever]

True, we've got it made compared to lesser developed Asian countries like India/Indonesia/China

You can't seriously be calling China lesser developed. The Chinese ARE the Eastern Superpower and have done more for the world as a whole than any other country on Earth.

I'm also very against people calling the United States an Empire. It's not, it's not even close.
All it is, is a puppet in a greater scheme of things. It's done nothing to very little to contribute anything to the global society, it hasn't expanded. No president has ever been into battle or conquered another country.
Rome was an empire. Persia was an empire. Even England was an empire.
Julius Caesar was a conquerer. Alexander the Great was a conquerer. God King Xerxes was a conquerer.

The U.S is nothing in the big scheme of things.
It's been in decay for years and the politics of your country is to blame, for the most part.

Personally, I will never be visiting anywhere in your country. As far as I'm concerned it's actually one of the weakest countries in the world.

 

[Livewire]

You can't seriously be calling China lesser developed. The Chinese ARE the Eastern Superpower and have done more for the world as a whole than any other country on Earth.

I'm also very against people calling the United States an Empire. It's not, it's not even close.
All it is, is a puppet in a greater scheme of things. It's done nothing to very little to contribute anything to the global society, it hasn't expanded. No president has ever been into battle or conquered another country.
Rome was an empire. Persia was an empire. Even England was an empire.
Julius Caesar was a conquerer. Alexander the Great was a conquerer. God King Xerxes was a conquerer.

The U.S is nothing in the big scheme of things.
It's been in decay for years and the politics of your country is to blame, for the most part.

Personally, I will never be visiting anywhere in your country. As far as I'm concerned it's actually one of the weakest countries in the world.

China still has one of the world's highest rates of poverty, disease, and not to mention a laundry list of human rights abuses. And their economy and GDP is still growing, seeing as their capitalistic economy is conflicting with their communist style of government.

And yes, America is an empire, in almost every sense of the word. Large amounts of overseas territory, plus a large role in world politics as the defacto "Superpower", and a leader in terms on health rates, economic power, and military power. Their is more to an Empire than just conquering, you're not fully understanding the context of that word. And technically, the US "conquered" Iraq and Afghanistan, for all intents and purposes. America also invaded Nazi Germany, and along with the Soviets/English, carpet bombed them into submission during WWII.

And to say that America hasn't contributed anything to the global community is as laughable as it is ignorant. You might not like the US, but don't pass judgment on things you obviously aren't familiar with.

 

[OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire]

Well if true then America would be one of the shortest lived Empires in the world...also Empires can last years in the decay state, Rome itself did until it the flood gates broke and was properly invaded by the outside.
America shares many of the same things Rome did, Falling infrastructure, a congress full of corruption and bickering (well ours doesn't appear that corrupt but you got to admit there is a high level of it going on behind close door with both parties), foreign people coming into the Empire that are seen as invaders (though in rome's case this was true but I don't think so in our case...but who knows...), a power that ruled their world (Rome was the Mediterranean, the Us was the Western world), as well as the printing of money (rome did this by manufacturing coins but it's like printing money in today's paper money world), "immortal" culture, etc.
I also wonder how future countries will view us after we have fallen...

 

[King Gumball]

You can't seriously be calling China lesser developed. The Chinese ARE the Eastern Superpower and have done more for the world as a whole than any other country on Earth.

I have always learned that it was either Australia (because of our alliance with USA/Europe) or Japan for obvious reasons (taking over China, Singapore, Malaya and basically every country in Asia except New Guinea and Australia and they are the most technological advanced country) I have been taught that China is at least the third super power in Asia, mainly because of what Live Wire said plus their overly large population.

I think America will eventually fall in the future, not now though. Global warming will be everyones downfall though, with Greenland and Antarctica rapidly melting and all. Minor Pacific countries are already set to be underwater in less than 50 years o_o

 

[Happy Azumarill]

also china has the largest force of migs in the world capable of hiting any country in a matter of 4 hours

 

[OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire]

I have always learned that it was either Australia (because of our alliance with USA/Europe) or Japan for obvious reasons (taking over China, Singapore, Malaya and basically every country in Asia except New Guinea and Australia and they are the most technological advanced country) I have been taught that China is at least the third super power in Asia, mainly because of what Live Wire said plus their overly large population.

I think America will eventually fall in the future, not now though. Global warming will be everyones downfall though, with Greenland and Antarctica rapidly melting and all. Minor Pacific countries are already set to be underwater in less than 50 years o_o

I read an article that said that the Land is sinking faster than the sea is rising...so that's a bigger problem than Sea level rise...
China is the biggest power in Asia in my opinion

 

[Griffinbane]

I don't know about that...China's got people but Russia's got bombs.

 

[OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire]

I don't know about that...China's got people but Russia's got bombs.

China also has (nuke) bombs but I think Russia currently has more so you're right. Also I feel like this world is going to become Multipolar like it was during War world II when the mains powers were (USSR, USA, England, France) only in this new world it will be (Brazil, Russia, India,China)

 

[LadySurreal]

I don't know about that...China's got people but Russia's got bombs.

Here's Manpower:

Nuclear Weapons:

 

[Hyperion09]

I have always learned that it was either Australia (because of our alliance with USA/Europe)

Because the US wants control over the Asia-Pacific region - if it wasn't in their interests, they'd have left us to rot ages ago.