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The End of America

Political middle ground ain't happenin' until the two party system is revamped. Too much majority/minority tug-o-war as it is.
 
Griffinbane said:
Political middle ground ain't happenin' until the two party system is revamped. Too much majority/minority tug-o-war as it is.
Click to expand...

I don't see that ever happening. America's political systems is based on everyone contributing and having their say. So even in the "middle ground" there would be debate. But debate is good, it weeds out the unnecessary and streamlines the objectives.
 
America's poltical system today is like like the civil war without guns.
 
While I see a lot of similarities between the United States and Ancient Rome, I don't think the U.S. is going to "fall" independently of the rest of the world except in the case of some very unfortunate and selective natural disaster. Aside from our historical perspective, our communication and travel technology, our education and everything else that puts us on a different level from Rome, the rest of the world is completely different.

Nothing on the list of 10 possible causes would in itself cause America to fall and even a combination of several wouldn't do us in. As much as we put on the lone cowboy attitude, the U.S. has allies and plenty of friendly governments who would be willing to come to our aid if we needed them. They would even have selfish reasons to do so since the fall of one country would destabilize others.

Fuel, water and food are things we have in abundance. Our infrastructure is still very good compared to many places around the world and they make do. Our political climate, while not the best I could hope for, isn't likely to turn into something hideous and bloody which ruins the country because at a point where it gets bad enough people will realize what's happening and rethink what they're doing. And to cut this short I don't feel the other 'threats' are as devastating as they might seem. America's fall, if it happens, will be a gradual decline from superpowerdom and not a crash.
 
Scarf said:
America's fall, if it happens, will be a gradual decline from superpowerdom and not a crash.
Click to expand...

Sadly one of the few things that the USA can still do better then any other country is bomb other countries.

That said, the USA will fold like a bad hand of cards if China/Saudi Arabia/Anyothercountrywebarrowmoniesfrom stop lending us money and call in all our debts.
 
Mr. X said:
Sadly one of the few things that the USA can still do better then any other country is bomb other countries.

That said, the USA will fold like a bad hand of cards if China/Saudi Arabia/Anyothercountrywebarrowmoniesfrom stop lending us money and call in all our debts.
Click to expand...

Problem with that is that it's still very much in the economic interests of those countries to keep the USA afloat.
 
Live_Wire466 said:


Yup. Seeing as most of their export revenue comes from America, China in particular. And in their case, it's a massive amount of money.
Click to expand...

China lends us exorbant amounts of money. We import chinese merchandise. We pay them to export these items to us.

So essentially china is giving us money and we are using money that china gave us to buy chinese goods.
 
Mr. X said:
China lends us exorbant amounts of money. We import chinese merchandise. We pay them to export these items to us.

So essentially china is giving us money and we are using money that china gave us to buy chinese goods.
Click to expand...

It's not as simple as: China gives us money, we buy stuff from them. They're giving the government money. The American people are getting their money from the corporations they work for, most of them getting that from money the citizens of various developed nations, not just the US, and spending it on goods that give money to the corporations they work for and the citizens of less developed countries like China, who in turn pay taxes and such to the governments of those countries.
 
I agree that the United States is in a state of decline, but I hope that the unemployment rate, or hunger will eventually inspire our people to develop a stronger work ethic and to care more about our education than what's on TV tonight. I feel that things have to get worse before they get better here, but that they WILL get better.

I also hope that we will develop less of an ego over the idea of being a world "super power" and focus on our own problems.
 
If you really want my opinion, then I'll give the truthful one. Who cares what happens with America, the world could end any second. The government doesn't do anything to stop this stuff from occurring. I'm amazed that we haven't gotten blown up with nuclear weapons, because we just cannot keep our nose out of foreign affairs. Who's fault is that? The government again. As for the oil problem, we are just too dumb to handle it. Look at what BP did. (BP-Bad planning=big problems) We really need to use the space we have for wind and solar energy. I wish we could put solar and wind power all around the globe to be able to live on it.
 
I couldn't say what started America's downfall, but if I could pick one likely source, it would be the discovery of fossil fuel. Most of you know that the first engine was originally designed to run on peanut oil, and that they quickly resorted to using gasoline because it was cheaper, right? Well, times have changed, and so has the engine. If people are making biofuels left and right, and the access to the equipment for making the fuel is becoming easier and easier, don't you think most big businesses would want a piece of that? You know, that they would wanna get in on the biofuel, because they would make a lot of money off of it? It seems simple enough, I mean, no one wants to pay $3.18/gallon of gas, but, everyone would want to pay $.34/gallon of biofuel. Why would they make the switch? Because it would extend the life of the car, keep the mileage economical, cost less (most importantly), and leave smaller carbon footprints on the planet. This sounds good and whatnot, but what keeps people from switching is the fact that they would have to convert their engines to run on this biofuel as well as take time to make the fuel themselves. Both reasons that hinder the switch for many people run on the same basic problem: spending time that they think they don't have. Come on, people, everyone has time. If we could all switch our cars to ones that run on biofuel, made from anything, from frying oil to kitchen grease, think about how much that would cut our dependency to foreign oil. If the demand for gasoline was cut down due to a surge in the use of biofuels, the big petrol companies would have no choice but to offer cleaner-burning biofuels at a lower price, thus resulting in time being saved by the users of the cleaner cars to make the biofuel themselves. Eventually everyone in America will catch on to the idea of biofuels. I mean, Electric cars are becoming more and more popular. Honda (or some other foreign car company) released their first line of self-sustaining cars. How long until America swallows their pride and gives up their fossil fuels? No one knows for sure, but I'm almost positive that it'll be in my lifetime. Hurry up, America; I'm 17 years old, and waiting for a decrease in CO2.

As for everything else that was listed:
1. The rapid decline of fossil fuel, and the lack of alternate resources.
Not true. There are plenty of other sources (self-sustaining and all natural) in the United States for energy, such as wind, wave, and solar. People all over the place are investing in solar panels to cut off their dependency on coal. Wind farms are being pushed through congress and state government as we speak. Almost every river with a mill in my state has a dam generator on it, which powers the mill. There ARE pushes for cleaner energy in the United States, but everything is hush-hush about it, because the big gas and oil companies don't want the competition. The main reason why it took so long for the use of natural self-sustaining resources (which, the first idea of using them came about in the 1950s, believe it or not), is BECAUSE of those big oil companies. They don't want to lose the money. They don't want to have to lose the money to help the planet. It's complete bull____, but that's how they are in America. We're not too happy about it, and yes, congress IS doing something about them.

2. The water crisis currently effecting the South west, AZ, CA, NM, NE, etc.
This is due to what scientists are calling 'Global Warming'. The heat trapped in the Earth's atmosphere due to the CO2 hardening the Ozone layer makes more serious and strong weather events happen. The only solutions to this is to either:
A). Open a water purification plant to sustain those states.
B). Ship water from other states to those areas.
Also, keep in mind their environment. Those states are mostly desert, and having little rainfall or precipitation is natural to the environment.

3. The current political landscape.
You can go to any country in the world, doesn't matter which one, and their government will be a zoo. America's government is no different, ours is just more publicized. I will admit that ours is full of scandal and crooked politicians, but that's just how humans are when they become overrun with power. They forget they have a society to lead, and only focus on themselves. Like I said, go to any country in the world. You'll find this same phenomenon there. Also, it should be noted that the public is pushing for a more democratic government and less wasteful spending.

4. America's rapidly decaying infrastructure.
There is a LOT to be done about this, I'll give you credit for bringing this up. I think that instead of spending our tax dollars on rebuilding Iraq and Afghanistan (which will only be blown up again and again), we should rebuild our own roads, highways, and other public necessities. It's a good example of the side effects of our wasteful spending. Did you happen to notice, however, the government grants states can get for funding reconstruction? It should be taken with a grain of salt, however; states can only get grants for projects that the government deems truly in need for the money. Is that good enough? Does something that important have to be in that bad of shape to get some damn money to fix, before people get hurt or die? I think that that's a load of bull____. It should be that if something needs to get fixed, it gets fixed. Think of how many more jobs people would have if that were a common policy in our government.

5. The global economical situation and Recession.
This is all thanks to the repeal of The Banking Act (or the Glass-Stegall act) of 1933 in 1999. This act put in place a policy that prohibited the banks from holding or merging with other banks. 10 years after this policy was repealed, the stock market crashed. Boom, right there, they just cut the red wire. If they could reinstate that act, or make something dramatically similar to that, then we would be set from another recession for life. I would like to add, however, that the situation is getting better, and will continue to get better, if the equal amount of spending and saving continues to stay the same.

6. The possibility of Nuclear Warfare.
Bull____. North Korea is not at all ready for atomic warfare. It should be known that any atomic warfare is global suicide. When the atomic weapon is dropped, the fallout with drape the globe, resulting in loss of (almost) everything. I honestly think that a country should be smarter than doing that.

7. Virulent Pandemics and bacterial-resistant diseases.
Due to our dependence on medicine from an early time. These aren't 'super-viruses/bacterium', really, they're just organisms that are evolving. In time, there will be vaccines and more preventive measures for preventing human death from the viruses/bacterium. We won't fight them with a clean slate; what I mean by this is that our systems - every one of us - already has an amount of antibiotics in us, and over time, viruses and bacterium have gotten immune to it. Where did we get this hidden antibiotic? In our meats and other animal products, due to the farmers using them on their livestock to keep them healthy for consumer use. It's sick, in a way, but it's how humans live nowadays. We need time to solve this (which most people are just so reluctant to spare) and a bit of effort in cutting down less natural ways of keeping us healthy).

8. Apathy.
I think that because everyone is freaking out about everything, it causes us to look apathetic. I mean, we (as a nation in the government's eyes) don't want to seem weak, so we stay almost apathetic about problems. It's a pride thing.

9. Over-population and food shortage(s).
The over-population this is something we can't have a handle on, unless we resort to genocide, and that's just morally wrong. Congress and cracking down on immigration reforms and stronger borders between ourselves and other countries, but that won't do much, as long as we have beaches and airplanes. It's unfair that immigrants live in our country and take our tax dollars, but the most we can do is either jail them, deport them, or kill them. We jail them, we sometimes deport them, but we often kill them. I guess that's one way to solve the problem.
But, over-population of U.S citizens...as in, families with other 3 children, could be a way for the family to get government dollars to use at their will, like the food stamps or the reduction of price in their heating or utilities. Everyone's screwing the system.
Food shortages. It could be linked to the 'Global Warming' bit, the rising cost in maintaining a farm, or the failure of the ever-growing grainary (which is only used for produce that won't perish for a long time, such as wheat and grain). It should be suggested (or pushed heavily through advertisement in media) that everyone should have their own food source at home, such as a garden or a livestock animal. I think it's a good idea, at least.

10. Heavy dependence on technology for basic function.
I think this a human error, really. We get so fascinated with new ideas, and we easily and quickly drop our traditional ways for this new idea, so we seem acceptable to other humans, no matter how much the new idea will hurt us in the long run. It's sad that we're losing a grip on our traditions, but the whole world is suffering from this too. It's how we are. There's no real stop for it.

An important thing to remember is this: We will all be dead before the world "ends".

​
 
It happened to Rome, too.

The problem is the government and our president. People aren't allowed to do anything anymore, so people just give up.
 
I hope I didn't kill this topic. D:​
 
Maj. Cor said:
As for everything else that was listed:
1. The rapid decline of fossil fuel, and the lack of alternate resources.
Not true. There are plenty of other sources (self-sustaining and all natural) in the United States for energy, such as wind, wave, and solar. People all over the place are investing in solar panels to cut off their dependency on coal. Wind farms are being pushed through congress and state government as we speak. Almost every river with a mill in my state has a dam generator on it, which powers the mill. There ARE pushes for cleaner energy in the United States, but everything is hush-hush about it, because the big gas and oil companies don't want the competition. The main reason why it took so long for the use of natural self-sustaining resources (which, the first idea of using them came about in the 1950s, believe it or not), is BECAUSE of those big oil companies. They don't want to lose the money. They don't want to have to lose the money to help the planet. It's complete bull____, but that's how they are in America. We're not too happy about it, and yes, congress IS doing something about them.​
Click to expand...


​

Well that's true, but Solar/Wind/Wave cannot sustain th energy demands of the entire USA alone. not unless Nuclear Power comes into play at some point. But you're right, the big oil corporations like Exxon Mobile and BP are going to fight that at every possible moment. Things are getting done, just not fast enough.


2. The water crisis currently effecting the South west, AZ, CA, NM, NE, etc.
This is due to what scientists are calling 'Global Warming'. The heat trapped in the Earth's atmosphere due to the CO2 hardening the Ozone layer makes more serious and strong weather events happen. The only solutions to this is to either:
A). Open a water purification plant to sustain those states.
B). Ship water from other states to those areas.
Also, keep in mind their environment. Those states are mostly desert, and having little rainfall or precipitation is natural to the environment.
Click to expand...
Well the water crisis really just means that water is in short supply, and it doesn't have much to do with Global warming. It's just that the large underground aquifer that supplies the SW with water is being used faster than it can be replenished, thus resulting in shortages. But Global warming is to blame for that in other areas of the world.

3. The current political landscape.
You can go to any country in the world, doesn't matter which one, and their government will be a zoo. America's government is no different, ours is just more publicized. I will admit that ours is full of scandal and crooked politicians, but that's just how humans are when they become overrun with power. They forget they have a society to lead, and only focus on themselves. Like I said, go to any country in the world. You'll find this same phenomenon there. Also, it should be noted that the public is pushing for a more democratic government and less wasteful spending.
Click to expand...
But that doesn't change the fact that still happens. As Americans we tout ourselves as having the world's greatest country and political system, one would think we'd be above such division and bickering. Our political system, in the past 20 years, has gone from one of the most efficient to one of the most inefficient. Nothing gets done these days unless one party has total control. the filibuster-proof supermajority in the Senate was the only way Obama could get any of his legislation passed quickly.
4. America's rapidly decaying infrastructure.
There is a LOT to be done about this, I'll give you credit for bringing this up. I think that instead of spending our tax dollars on rebuilding Iraq and Afghanistan (which will only be blown up again and again), we should rebuild our own roads, highways, and other public necessities. It's a good example of the side effects of our wasteful spending. Did you happen to notice, however, the government grants states can get for funding reconstruction? It should be taken with a grain of salt, however; states can only get grants for projects that the government deems truly in need for the money. Is that good enough? Does something that important have to be in that bad of shape to get some damn money to fix, before people get hurt or die? I think that that's a load of bull____. It should be that if something needs to get fixed, it gets fixed. Think of how many more jobs people would have if that were a common policy in our government.
Click to expand...
The problem is, is that money for infrastructure comes from taxes, and certain politicians have goaded and manipulated the American public into believing that taxes are the socialist and the work of the devil. People need to realize that they need to cough up if they want decent roads and infrastructure.

5. The global economical situation and Recession.
This is all thanks to the repeal of The Banking Act (or the Glass-Stegall act) of 1933 in 1999. This act put in place a policy that prohibited the banks from holding or merging with other banks. 10 years after this policy was repealed, the stock market crashed. Boom, right there, they just cut the red wire. If they could reinstate that act, or make something dramatically similar to that, then we would be set from another recession for life. I would like to add, however, that the situation is getting better, and will continue to get better, if the equal amount of spending and saving continues
to stay the same.
Click to expand...
Well the recent figures have been promising, that jobless claims fell last quarter while hiring increased, but the overall unemployment rate is still lingering around 9.4 % It'll take some time to heal.

6. The possibility of Nuclear Warfare.
Bull____. North Korea is not at all ready for atomic warfare. It should be known that any atomic warfare is global suicide. When the atomic weapon is dropped, the fallout with drape the globe, resulting in loss of (almost) everything. I honestly think that a country should be smarter than doing that.
Click to expand...
Well, we already did that. :/ It didn't end the world, but it really messed up that region of Japan, to the point that radiation still lingers and sickens people in Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

Keep in mind that Kim Jong Il is a madman and a fanatical Dictator. I wouldn't put anything past him, and what he's capable of doing.

7. Virulent Pandemics and bacterial-resistant diseases.
Due to our dependence on medicine from an early time. These aren't 'super-viruses/bacterium', really, they're just organisms that are evolving. In time, there will be vaccines and more preventive measures for preventing human death from the viruses/bacterium. We won't fight them with a clean slate; what I mean by this is that our systems - every one of us - already has an amount of antibiotics in us, and over time, viruses and bacterium have gotten immune to it. Where did we get this hidden antibiotic? In our meats and other animal products, due to the farmers using them on their livestock to keep them healthy for consumer use. It's sick, in a way, but it's how humans live nowadays. We need time to solve this (which most people are just so reluctant to spare) and a bit of effort in cutting down less natural ways of keeping us healthy).
Click to expand...
People need to learn to not abuse antibiotics, take them as prescribed, don't guess and take them until you feel better. :/ that's where we get out drug-resistant diseases from. Not to mention, the USDA allows for antibiotics and hormones to be used in the meat we eat, which also hurts in the long run.


8. Apathy.
I think that because everyone is freaking out about everything, it causes us to look apathetic. I mean, we (as a nation in the government's eyes) don't want to seem weak, so we stay almost apathetic about problems. It's a pride thing.
Click to expand...
People also don't act because they've been indoctrinated that things will get done for them, and they don't have to be proactive anymore. Our economic crisis reflects upon that perfectly.

9. Over-population and food shortage(s).
The over-population this is something we can't have a handle on, unless we resort to genocide, and that's just morally wrong. Congress and cracking down on immigration reforms and stronger borders between ourselves and other countries, but that won't do much, as long as we have beaches and airplanes. It's unfair that immigrants live in our country and take our tax dollars, but the most we can do is either jail them, deport them, or kill them. We jail them, we sometimes deport them, but we often kill them. I guess that's one way to solve the problem.
But, over-population of U.S citizens...as in, families with other 3 children, could be a way for the family to get government dollars to use at their will, like the food stamps or the reduction of price in their heating or utilities. Everyone's screwing the system.
Food shortages. It could be linked to the 'Global Warming' bit, the rising cost in maintaining a farm, or the failure of the ever-growing granary (which is only used for produce that won't perish for a long time, such as wheat and grain). It should be suggested (or pushed heavily through advertisement in media) that everyone should have their own food source at home, such as a garden or a livestock animal. I think it's a good idea, at least.
Click to expand...
I think re-apportioning land in the West, similar to the way it was originally done in the 1800's, by the Rocky Mountains is a good idea, because it spreads the population out more evenly across the country, which in turn would cut down on the impact made by large population centers on air quality and the environment.

10. Heavy dependence on technology for basic function.
I think this a human error, really. We get so fascinated with new ideas, and we easily and quickly drop our traditional ways for this new idea, so we seem acceptable to other humans, no matter how much the new idea will hurt us in the long run. It's sad that we're losing a grip on our traditions, but the whole world is suffering from this too. It's how we are. There's no real stop for it.

An important thing to remember is this: We will all be dead before the world "ends".
Click to expand...
Technology is partly to blame for the whole feeling of entitlement that's rampant in kids today, born since the early 1990's. What I was referencing is that our society cannot function without our TV's, I-Pod's, Cars, Computers, etc. Look back at the big east coast power outage in 2001. The power went out, and all hell broke loose.

I might be long gone before the end of the world, but I'll have future family to think of too.
​

​
 
Live_Wire466 said:




Well that's true, but Solar/Wind/Wave cannot sustain th energy demands of the entire USA alone. not unless Nuclear Power comes into play at some point. But you're right, the big oil corporations like Exxon Mobile and BP are going to fight that at every possible moment. Things are getting done, just not fast enough.
​
Click to expand...


Oh, you'd be surprised just how far sustainable energy can go. It WILL be plenty to fuel the country, but it'll take years and years to make the switch. And Nuclear Power? I doubt you'll get a lot of votes for nuclear power. Just look at Chernobyl. People at this day still cannot access the town of Pripyat. And that accident, that nuclear disaster...was caused by one safety check done wrong. It can happen again.

Well the water crisis really just means that water is in short supply, and it doesn't have much to do with Global warming. It's just that the large underground aquifer that supplies the SW with water is being used faster than it can be replenished, thus resulting in shortages. But Global warming is to blame for that in other areas of the world.
Click to expand...

As I said in my response: We could always put a salt-water purification plant somewhere on the coast that could supply at least a percentage of what the SW needs. It shouldn't always be used as a crutch, but at least it's something.

But that doesn't change the fact that still happens. As Americans we tout ourselves as having the world's greatest country and political system, one would think we'd be above such division and bickering. Our political system, in the past 20 years, has gone from one of the most efficient to one of the most inefficient. Nothing gets done these days unless one party has total control. the filibuster-proof supermajority in the Senate was the only way Obama could get any of his legislation passed quickly.
Click to expand...

If you think back to when George Washington came into office, he always said that there shouldn't be two parties in a government, because they would bicker and rant, rather than benefit the people they govern. See? He knew it would be a bad idea, and look where we are now; stuck with a bad idea. That's also my personal belief...but you can't just take two parties and merge them. That would be hell.

The problem is, is that money for infrastructure comes from taxes, and certain politicians have goaded and manipulated the American public into believing that taxes are the socialist and the work of the devil. People need to realize that they need to cough up if they want decent roads and infrastructure.
Click to expand...

Mhm. Taxes were what got us into the Revolutionary War, and taxes are...well, still what's keeping us in war. We use the tax money to fuel a war with no point. But I still agree that people should just pay the taxes so they can get the new roads they want, rather than sitting around and *****ing about it.

Well the recent figures have been promising, that jobless claims fell last quarter while hiring increased, but the overall unemployment rate is still lingering around 9.4 % It'll take some time to heal.
Click to expand...

I'm on the borderline of optimistic and pessimistic. Although, I'm sure that'll work out in the end.

Well, we already did that. :/ It didn't end the world, but it really messed up that region of Japan, to the point that radiation still lingers and sickens people in Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
Keep in mind that Kim Jong Il is a madman and a fanatical Dictator. I wouldn't put anything past him, and what he's capable of doing.
Click to expand...

I know, but I have a sneaky feeling someone will eliminate him before anything drastic takes place.

People need to learn to not abuse antibiotics, take them as prescribed, don't guess and take them until you feel better. :/ that's where we get out drug-resistant diseases from. Not to mention, the USDA allows for antibiotics and hormones to be used in the meat we eat, which also hurts in the long run.
Click to expand...

Also, not to abuse healthcare, which is another big problem with us; we abuse what's free and are quick to diagnose the worst. We also have a tenancy to go to the emergency room just to get a bandaid, and that is the WORST thing to do. Abusing health care, right there.

People also don't act because they've been indoctrinated that things will get done for them, and they don't have to be proactive anymore. Our economic crisis reflects upon that perfectly.
Click to expand...

I agree that we're lazy. :)

I think re-apportioning land in the West, similar to the way it was originally done in the 1800's, by the Rocky Mountains is a good idea, because it spreads the population out more evenly across the country, which in turn would cut down on the impact made by large population centers on air quality and the environment.
Click to expand...

I agree that that's a good idea, but it would be hard to push Americans out of their homes.

Technology is partly to blame for the whole feeling of entitlement that's rampant in kids today, born since the early 1990's. What I was referencing is that our society cannot function without our TV's, I-Pod's, Cars, Computers, etc. Look back at the big east coast power outage in 2001. The power went out, and all hell broke loose.
Click to expand...

Mmm. Good point. I remember that. I think that we're de-evolving, like, de-evolution (or DEVO - 80's band joke) to fit around the lifestyle where everything does everything automatically. It's not healthy, and it would take a long time to stop or reverse...

I might be long gone before the end of the world, but I'll have future family to think of too.
Click to expand...

If only I could have the patience for children...

​
 
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