The Generation 5 / Future Generations Speculation Thread + Wishlist

[Waffle-San]

Thank you for reading and replying. I'm sorry about the oversized text, I copy&pasted it from Word.



Perhaps it could be an over-complication.... but kids can be quite smart. It would just introduce a few more choices into battling, eg. the gym leader's just sent out Azumarill. Shall I send out my Flaffy with a type advantage and a species disadvantage or my Skarmory with a species advantage? At the moment, you can run through the game on auto-pilot. But I accept your point about Nintendo being reluctant to alienate younger audiences. But at the same time, the right kind of marketing could make Pokemon more respectable to older gamers, thus increasing its popularity in another demographic.

Also, the placement of which pokemon? :P

I can't remember which pokemon I had in mind, I like the idea. Maybe for some epic awesome Wii pokemon game.


Fair enough.


Well, it works because it would be a sort of "opposite" to Psychic, pokemon that focus on logic and numbers rather than thought and meditation. Also, a couple of new types instantly gives the game a fresh, new feel, like the Johto games did. Despite being closely related to Kanto, the Generation II games felt more original and different to the first games than any other Generation. And there are many Digital pokemon that could be introduced without relation to Electricity or Steel.

Datatron and Waretron (Digital) - Living, breathing chunks of data contained in a chunk of see-through material. Datatron is small and made up of just legs, while Waretron is humanoid.

Viro and Noro (Digital/Ghost) - Not evolutions but rivals. Viro is an airborne virus that lives by corrupting computer systems. Noro survives by seeking out Viros and neutralising them.

Cybaratt (Digital) - A large rat with a Cybernetic brain that feeds off data.

Snart (Digital/Dragon) - A titanic dragon through which it is said that all the information in the world flows through. It hides deep in caves in fear of the danger its knowledge could cause.

And many more....

Ya, I don't think your going to convince me here, I'll expand on this some other time as it's 12:37 in the morning, I have school tomorrow and there's no way I'll come up with intelligent fairly non-bias arguments. (All I can think of right now is I don't want them, but I like to be openminded, I didn't really like the species idea the first time I read it, but each time I reread it, the idea grows on me.)

Fair point, perhaps we have enough status problems as it is.



Oh, I'm not suggesting we get rid of the gym/Elite 4 system altogether, not at all. But each game has implemented the exact same format, with the same things happening at the same points in time, with the names slightly changed. Mix it up, split the game into two new regions with a sort-of-Elite Four you have to beat before you enter the second. Have more side-quests. Make your character have to make decisions that would change the plot slightly. Better yet, have different but overlapping journeys depending on which starter you choose. If you lose an important battle (eg. against a Team X leader), have that have noticable reprocussions. Stick in a major plot after you beat the elite four. Perhaps Team X have caused the apocalypse and it's your job to travel all over the world and stop it. Just as long as the format is re-jigged and the storyline has less of an A->B->C type progression, I'll be happy.

There we go, this paragraph among others in this thread would be ones that I would seriously submit to Nintendo if I had that power. They're all realistic and really good ideas. Just like my reputation idea :P haha I kid, well sort of :D.

That did always bother me, how you could lose to Giovanni, which according to the leady up things (I will edit this when I'm awake and have a vocabulary) would cause some sort of mass destruction, and then just heal up and try again and again and again... Now I know we have to win eventually cause we're the good guys and the main character in the game but you'd think there'd be some relapse. Heck, I always wondered why the computerized trainers you faced pokemon didn't gain exp. It'd be kinda weird to see your opponents pokemon go up a level.
I'm sure I can have more insightful comments but this is all I can manage right now, so be happy!!!

I just think that we've gone through all the types now, except for Dark, and the whole typed gym idea has gone stale. I'd love to see a gym with some other interesting niche. Or maybe, just for fun, there are some quasi-gyms that you can challenge that are filled with pokemon of 1 type, but the twist is you have to have a team solely of that type. It'd be so much fun to have to go out and build a team of solely water pokemon, or a kick-ass fire team. Another thing I'd like to see is gyms not placed in the middle of cities, but at the top of mountains or deep in a forest.

I don't know I still like typing gyms and their puzzles. But change always has its rewards, plus I always found the non "badges" gyms and houses to be just as fun. Also, in huge agreeance on the mountain and forest thing, might as well make the location just a big a part of the challenge of facing a gym leader and earning a gym badge. Cause your right, there's no challenge in taking down Brock's team of Geodude and Onix with my level 8 squirtle that know bubble.


Well, it doesn't even matter that much if they don't make the NPCs necessarily better, but it's just such a Wall Banger when they throw out 6 of the same pokemon. A big part of what I love about pokemon is how expansive and diverse it is, with hundereds of different pokemon, all waiting to be found. Having 5 or 6 of the same pokemon instantly narrows the focus, and makes the game feel restricted. Give the fishermen a Goldeen, a Barboach, a Finneon and a Chinchou and instantly your NPC is a hell of a lot more entertaining to battle. Come one, who doesn't get tired of battling 100 bug catchers with 100 caterpies early on in the game? Giving them a few Wurmples, Spinoraks, Ledybas, Surskits or Mantrizors (pre-evo of Scyther) wouldn't necessairly make them harder to beat, but more entertaining to beat.

Understood, I'd like to see some more challenging ones added but just adding diversity is fine too. The thing that usually annoyed me the most was that these six magikarp would only give me a total of 200 exp. points. Something I could get from one Finneon. When i battle in game it's for training or money (if I've beaten the elite 4 and need some vitamins for EV training) and really those fisherman are giving all of us neather. And ya I realise, most these comments are just agreeing with yours but I still believe them to have they're place. 2 heads are better than one right ;)

Well yes, we can keep the useful moves like Fly, Surf, etc. But they should be TMs and learnt moves. HM slaves are irritating because they instantly take up a space in your party with a pokemon that you didn't really want. I like to have complete choice and freedom when choosing my party (apart from the obvious restrictions like not being able to catch legendaries until later, that makes sense).

I've come to accept this as part of the game but if it were changed you wouldn't hear a peep out of me. I don't mind it so much in game but when I'm walking around with my WiFi team, none of which have expandable moves for hm's like Rock Smash, then I get a little annoyed.

Well there's my really forced reply, now I'm going to go catch some shut-eye which I probabley should have done hours ago, woo hoo!

 

[Atsuki]

*moan*

No, there are 4 members, that "fifth" member is the Champion, who has no relation, nor is NOT aprt of the Elite Four



Isn't that why we use HM Slaves?

HM Slaves take up a valuable space in your party.

 

[killin_kobra]

I dont think theyll put another type in. Theres enough as it is, and it would mean backwards compatibility would be thrown out as the Pokemon would gain a type as it was traded from say Diamond to the new game.

 

[Shaterpie]

I agree with pretty much everything Charmageddon has said, I mean, we do NOT need baby Pokemon. You may like them, you may find them cute for some reason, but they are not needed whatsoever. Much in the same way that ugly waste Rhyperior was not needed, Lickilicky, was not needed, Tangrowth was not needed. All they do is eliminate any real traces of Generation 1 Pokemon, which is terrible and ridiculous. Was there any point in Happiny, Bonsly and Mime. Jr?

I wouldn't mind HM's if some of them weren't so utterly useless, I mean we have Flash for 3 generations, and when they finally get rid of it they give us Defog? What? I also hated Whirlpool, glad that's gone.

It would also nice for them to stop constantly taking steps back, Generation 1 -> 2 was a BIG step forward, so what do they do in R/S? They remove a 2nd region. In Emerald they add a battle frontier, what do they do in D/P? They remove it, but put it in Platinum in what must be considered one of the biggest scams in Pokemon games.

If they do a 5th generation, which I almost hope they don't, they should add a 2nd or even more regions, hell I'd be happy if they just let us go through the previous 4, they should stop adding evolutions and pre-evolutions, they should stop adding about 18,000 legendaries for no reason and they should make the game as fun as it was 10 years ago.

 

[Haza]

I agree with pretty much everything Charmageddon has said, I mean, we do NOT need baby Pokemon. You may like them, you may find them cute for some reason, but they are not needed whatsoever. Much in the same way that ugly waste Rhyperior was not needed, Lickilicky, was not needed, Tangrowth was not needed. All they do is eliminate any real traces of Generation 1 Pokemon, which is terrible and ridiculous. Was there any point in Happiny, Bonsly and Mime. Jr?

I wouldn't mind HM's if some of them weren't so utterly useless, I mean we have Flash for 3 generations, and when they finally get rid of it they give us Defog? What? I also hated Whirlpool, glad that's gone.

It would also nice for them to stop constantly taking steps back, Generation 1 -> 2 was a BIG step forward, so what do they do in R/S? They remove a 2nd region. In Emerald they add a battle frontier, what do they do in D/P? They remove it, but put it in Platinum in what must be considered one of the biggest scams in Pokemon games.

If they do a 5th generation, which I almost hope they don't, they should add a 2nd or even more regions, hell I'd be happy if they just let us go through the previous 4, they should stop adding evolutions and pre-evolutions, they should stop adding about 18,000 legendaries for no reason and they should make the game as fun as it was 10 years ago.

Baby Pokemon make things more realistic. I mean, can you imagin a big huge onix coming out of an egg that you carry with you?

 

[Zennerick]

Baby Pokemon make things more realistic. I mean, can you imagin a big huge onix coming out of an egg that you carry with you?

Perhaps the antagonist is REALLY buff? XD

 

[Shaterpie]

Baby Pokemon make things more realistic. I mean, can you imagin a big huge onix coming out of an egg that you carry with you?

Can you imagine your character carrying a bicycle, about 200 berries, 6 pokemon, up to 92 Technical machines, loads of potions, among many other items on his back?

It's not particularly realistic at all.

 

[Haza]

Can you imagine your character carrying a bicycle, about 200 berries, 6 pokemon, up to 92 Technical machines, loads of potions, among many other items on his back?

It's not particularly realistic at all.

Okay let me start over. In the anime, can yo imagine Brocks Onix having an egg, and a large rock snake hatching out?

 

[Shaterpie]

But I'm not talking about the anime, I don't want to see these in a game. If it's not massively realistic I don't really care, it's worth it to see places in the pokedex taken up for no reason other than realism.

 

[Haza]

But I'm not talking about the anime, I don't want to see these in a game. If it's not massively realistic I don't really care, it's worth it to see places in the pokedex taken up for no reason other than realism.

Well it all ties together. U cant change one without the other being changed, As a matter of fact, 5th gen should bring babies for Onix, Rhydon, Lapras, Girafarig, Aerodactyl and Carnivine. I cant imagine any of them hatching.

 

[Charmageddon]

The way I always assumed it before baby pokemon came out was that pokemon were simply really small when they were first born/hatched/whatever, and grew a little each time they gained a level.

 

[titodsik1]

I think they need to make it easier to catch the legendary pokemon cause you can trust if you trade a mew or a lugia and not knowing if its lagit or craked but a game with the option of going to other regions after would be so great and having your favorite pokemon walk with u would be awesome having more pokemon storage space!

 

[BoomOfThe4thWall]

Well it all ties together. U cant change one without the other being changed, As a matter of fact, 5th gen should bring babies for Onix, Rhydon, Lapras, Girafarig, Aerodactyl and Carnivine. I cant imagine any of them hatching.

I can't believe you didn't mention Kangaskhan. It has been 4 generations and the 'skhan is the only Pokemon that gives birth the moment it hatches.

And that would mean that Kangaskhan would give birth too. And that one would give birth, and that one, and that one, and that on-- oh dear, I've gone cross-eyed.

 

[Lila]

I agree with pretty much everything Charmageddon has said, I mean, we do NOT need baby Pokemon. You may like them, you may find them cute for some reason, but they are not needed whatsoever. Much in the same way that ugly waste Rhyperior was not needed, Lickilicky, was not needed, Tangrowth was not needed. All they do is eliminate any real traces of Generation 1 Pokemon, which is terrible and ridiculous. Was there any point in Happiny, Bonsly and Mime. Jr?

Technically we don't need any pre-evolutions by that logic. They aren't needed, but I like them. They're cute, they're new sprites and creatures, and I don't think they take anything away from the game. Sometimes the happiness leveling up thing can be irritating, but I don't think it's that big of a deal.

If Rhyperior, Tangrowth and Lickilicky had no improvements over their pre-evolutions, then I would agree that they were a waste. However, all three of them are obviously better than their pre-evolutions. I personally loved the idea of adding evolutions to pokemon that were pretty much useless - sure, Rhyperior, Tangrowth and Lickilicky might not be the best pokemon, but they are useable. They might not "be needed", but they were an addition that made them viable. Honestly, I'm sick of all the pokemon which seem to be "fillers" in the pokedex because their fully evolved forms are absolutely useless and suck. Rhydon may have been sort of useable before Rhyperior, but Tangela and Lickitung, along with many other pokemon that got new evolutions were not viable at all.

This doesn't remove traces to Generation 1 pokemon. They're still there; but now they have improved evolutions. I don't think that Lickitung, Tangela or Rhydon were seen or used very much if at all because they had horrible stats. I would love to see all pokemon that have incredibly low stats or are just bad overall to be improved; this could be through evolutions, new abilities, or just improving the pokemon's stats. I personally like the evolution route, because I enjoy the new sprites and designs - they're fresh and new. Perhaps Nintendo could remove the need to add new evolutions to older pokemon by simply not making so many useless pokemon, but it seems like they're not going to stop that - Bibarel is a good example of that. x_x So while I'm not happy with the introduction of useless pokemon, at least they're fixing some of them with new evolutions.

I wouldn't mind HM's if some of them weren't so utterly useless, I mean we have Flash for 3 generations, and when they finally get rid of it they give us Defog? What? I also hated Whirlpool, glad that's gone.

I agree on this one. HMs are incredibly annoying, or at least the ones that are useless are. I think that instead of getting a HM as a reward for something, we should get some sort of machine. A flashlight in place of Flash, some sort of wind machine to get rid of fog, etc. I suppose there are better solutions to this problem, but I'm really sick of feeling limited with how many pokemon I use playing through the game because I almost always need two HM slaves in my party, otherwise I have to constantly switch my pokemon around. : /

It would also nice for them to stop constantly taking steps back, Generation 1 -> 2 was a BIG step forward, so what do they do in R/S? They remove a 2nd region. In Emerald they add a battle frontier, what do they do in D/P? They remove it, but put it in Platinum in what must be considered one of the biggest scams in Pokemon games.

R/S was (in my opinion, and many others) a huge disappointment compared to the second generation of games. The only thing I liked was the better graphics and things like abilities, but other than that it wasn't really anything that amazing. Hopefully if there is ever a 5th Generation of pokemon games they will implement some of the things in the 2nd Generation. Even if the 2nd Generation had some flaws like the battery running out, Kanto being too easy and unfinished, I do think that the ideas introduced there were some of the best. The day/night, daily events (bug catching, Lapras appearing, etc.), radio tower, and all of those other amazing features should return - I know the day/night thing is back in D/P, but it doesn't seem as unique as it was in G/S/C.

While I agree with your last point mostly, I don't think Platinum was a scam. I mean, Nintendo could try to polish their games more so they wouldn't have to release a third one in the same generation of games to fix the mistakes, but that's just the way it is - it's for money. Platinum is fixing a lot of problems within the game, such as the lack of pokemon before the national dex, making the game a little more difficult, adding more features, more story line, etc. Perhaps if the game had nearly no new additions I'd be ticked off, but Platinum has a lot of new things add. Besides, Nintendo has always released a third version of the same game, so it's not like this is something new. If you think it's a scam, don't buy it. However, I don't think you should act like this is something new - Nintendo always makes three versions of (basically) the same game for money. That's just the way large companies are with such a popular product that people are willing to spend money for. :)

 

[manomow]

I think they should bring underwater back and make it the new under ground. You can dive and then go to a blue shining spot into a cave that has crystals and large crystals. You can remove the large ones like the rocks. Any ways you go up the blue spot and you walk up to the cave entrance with puddles. You can have one in the cave, or one accually in the water with seaweed insteead of crystals or rocks.

 

[Shen]

Everyone remember the FR/LG opening with Gengar and Nidorino going at it?
Imagine if all battles looked like that.

 

[+Poochyena+]

A new Mightyena Evolution!!!

 

[Waffle-San]

There was a bunch of text up here I forgot to copy and paste from my quick reply, sorry =/

Perhaps Nintendo could remove the need to add new evolutions to older pokemon by simply not making so many useless pokemon, but it seems like they're not going to stop that - Bibarel is a good example of that. x_x So while I'm not happy with the introduction of useless pokemon, at least they're fixing some of them with new evolutions.

This is what I have to disagree on, I mentioned why mostly above, that and hey people and animals are built differently. Alot of these pokemon could be made "not-so useless," if Nintendo gave them a niche to fill. An example would be if Nintendo was to upgrade contests in 5th gen. Rhyperior might be great on Sandstorm teams but I bet it'd be horrible in a contest (like Anime style.) If pokemon like Raticate could be given some skill to make them more viable in contests then others, then you have a sort of quick fix, and a fun one too. Actually they could just make contests a little more exciting, any pokemon with a decent movepool can be viable in a contest, power is not an issue. Constantly making poffins though, imo, is not the way to sell contests.

And lastly, Bibarel is not useless, it's actually a great pokemon. Simple and Unaware are great abilities and can be taken advantage of. With the right EV investment and Unaware Bibarel can take a neutral hit from almost anything. (barring things like Stab'd Close Combat's). Simple makes it a prime candidate to be baton passed too, and if it get's out on the right poke, it can set up fairly quickly. Sure it gets outclassed by many things, but if it can set up, it can be a force. The Unaware set also makes a handy wall breaker and annoyer, cause well, who really prepares their team for a Bibarel!?

Manomow, I can honestly say I've read 95% of this thread if not all of it, as well as many others and I can't seem to remember seeing your idea anywhere. I've seen bring back dive, which would be cool, but you've expanded on it in a cool way. Props! *throws a perfectly cooked golden waffle at Manomow*

 

[Lila]

This is what I have to disagree on, I mentioned why mostly above, that and hey people and animals are built differently. Alot of these pokemon could be made "not-so useless," if Nintendo gave them a niche to fill. An example would be if Nintendo was to upgrade contests in 5th gen. Rhyperior might be great on Sandstorm teams but I bet it'd be horrible in a contest (like Anime style.) If pokemon like Raticate could be given some skill to make them more viable in contests then others, then you have a sort of quick fix, and a fun one too. Actually they could just make contests a little more exciting, any pokemon with a decent movepool can be viable in a contest, power is not an issue. Constantly making poffins though, imo, is not the way to sell contests.

Firstly, if you read my entire post you would have seen that I was talking about how every pokemon should be useful. The part that you quoted was expressing how I was satisfied with Nintendo trying to correct their mistake in making evolutions for useless pokemon; so you took that completely out of context, sorry. :P

Anyway, what do contests in the anime have to do anything about improving pokemon so they're not useless? I mean, honestly, pretty much any pokemon can do at least decently if you give them the proper poffins and moves. I personally liked the contests in the 3rd generation very much, I dislike the dancing and dressing up of pokemon, it's sort of sickening. So I hope they change contests in the next generation, too, pretty much anything would be better than they are now. However, making a pokemon a good contest pokemon doesn't really do anything. Pokemon is primarily about battling, and it always will be; this is why every pokemon should be viable for battling.

And lastly, Bibarel is not useless, it's actually a great pokemon. Simple and Unaware are great abilities and can be taken advantage of. With the right EV investment and Unaware Bibarel can take a neutral hit from almost anything. (barring things like Stab'd Close Combat's). Simple makes it a prime candidate to be baton passed too, and if it get's out on the right poke, it can set up fairly quickly. Sure it gets outclassed by many things, but if it can set up, it can be a force. The Unaware set also makes a handy wall breaker and annoyer, cause well, who really prepares their team for a Bibarel!?

You clearly haven't done much competitive battling if you seriously think that Bibarel is a great pokemon. Being able to take a neutral hit from almost anything doesn't make a pokemon good, especially when it has more than one weakness. It seems like its only function is to be a HM slave, since its stats and movepool are way too bad to battle with effectively. The argument that "oh bibarel is good when it sets up" is completely irrelevant, because any pokemon can be good if it manages to set up. If you're battling someone with at least half a brain they won't just sit there and let you set up. Bibarel might have two decent abilities, but they are completely wasted. This is even more frustrating to me than regular pokemon that are useless; it sucks how Nintendo invents all these interesting, new abilities but puts them on pokemon that are so crappy that they can't really use them.

 

[Waffle-San]

I realised that in my first post there was supposed to be a bunch of text explaining what I agreed with you on, I just wanted to say how some weren't useless as the creators have to use the same pokemon to accomadate all fans, the anime fans, the trading card fans, the competitive battlers and the casual battlers. But really I agreed with 90% of your post, It's just harder to write paragraphs stating why you agree. So yeah, that text I had written in the post quick reply area and had forgot to copy and paste it, so I didn't get quite all my views across. Unfortunatly I'm not quite remembering what they all were.

Firstly, if you read my entire post you would have seen that I was talking about how every pokemon should be useful. The part that you quoted was expressing how I was satisfied with Nintendo trying to correct their mistake in making evolutions for useless pokemon; so you took that completely out of context, sorry. :P

No no, I agree mostly, I just wanted to point out that some pokemon will always be bad and that's not nessecarially (sp?) a bad thing as long as they're not overcrowding.

Anyway, what do contests in the anime have to do anything about improving pokemon so they're not useless? I mean, honestly, pretty much any pokemon can do at least decently if you give them the proper poffins and moves. I personally liked the contests in the 3rd generation very much, I dislike the dancing and dressing up of pokemon, it's sort of sickening. So I hope they change contests in the next generation, too, pretty much anything would be better than they are now. However, making a pokemon a good contest pokemon doesn't really do anything. Pokemon is primarily about battling, and it always will be; this is why every pokemon should be viable for battling.

I was trying to point out that if they upgraded contests in some way they could give not-so-good pokemon a better place, you're right any pokemon can play the contest but because contests are generally not as exciting as gym battles and the likes, there's less incentive to take part in them. So if they made contests more enjoyable or gave them a more meanigful reward people would take part in them more, there-fore possibly using some of the more competitively useless pokemon. Or they could just make some pokemon better at them in general but I think we understood eachother there. I too enjoyed 3rd gen contests more.

You clearly haven't done much competitive battling if you seriously think that Bibarel is a great pokemon. Being able to take a neutral hit from almost anything doesn't make a pokemon good, especially when it has more than one weakness. It seems like its only function is to be a HM slave, since its stats and movepool are way too bad to battle with effectively. The argument that "oh bibarel is good when it sets up" is completely irrelevant, because any pokemon can be good if it manages to set up. If you're battling someone with at least half a brain they won't just sit there and let you set up. Bibarel might have two decent abilities, but they are completely wasted. This is even more frustrating to me than regular pokemon that are useless; it sucks how Nintendo invents all these interesting, new abilities but puts them on pokemon that are so crappy that they can't really use them.

I've done tonnes of competitive battling, whether it be climbing the ladder on smogon or training WiFi teams. I'll admit I probabley sugar coated it way too much, I shouldn't haved called it a great pokemon, but it definately isn't useless. It was a good fit on my old UU team, and I've used it on some OU teams, it's outclassed by most everything but it didn't epically fail. Mainly because people didn't know what to do, I wouldn't recommend anybody use it on their team if they want to be serious but if you're like me and you like to try out some underclassed pokemon (like Hitmonchan!) and try and make them OU viable to see how much success you have, then well Bibarel can work. (run on sentence much....).

You're of course right about the set-up argument, I just meant to say it's a little easier to set-up. So yea the point was to say that if you actually try Bibarel you'll find while it's totally outclassed its not entirely useless, though about the half a brain comment, you'd be surprised ;)

Anyways this Bibarel discussion is way off-topic and we should probabley get back on-topic.

Edit: Actually if this conversation continues, and I'd be delighted if it did, as I'm always looking for some fun intellectual conversation, I think we should stick to pm's.

I personally want an adorable Koala Bear pokemon that evolves into a monster panda. (Hei-Bai from Avatar anyone???:P:P:P Ghost/Normal typings FTW!)