The Legend of Zelda Fan Club

[Ivysaur]

* The Minish Cap... after The Wind Waker?

Sounds a bit weird, considering most people believe TMC to be the first game in the timeline. However, there are a few factors to be considered before placing it there. There's a great theory out there about how TMC could actually have happened after the events of WW. Here's some curiosities: 1. Very similar range and kind of enemies in both games, suggesting the events are approximate 2. TMC depicts Hyrule as a small island over a vast sea (view from the Palace of Winds) suggesting TMC's Hyrule was raised from the bottom of WW's Great Sea. But how? 3. To enforce the previous point, the great number of trees spread over TMC's Hyrule and coinciding map locations such as Forest Haven (depicted in the TMC map as the area with the greatest number of trees). TMC Location Theory (including images) built by Sentient from Zelda Universe Forums

That, sir, is the most discussion-inducing theory in my point of view. The idea sounds possible from the image of the island, and there is a point that always intrigued me from the plot: the amazingly vague references to the Triforce, which is simply depicted as a "golden force", even in Hyrule's castle, another step after the already vague referncesin WW. But there are two points that don't fully convince me:

1- In the beggining of the game, it is said that the Picori created the sword that helped a hero defeating the evil 100 years before. If well it's possible for the game to happen 100 years after WW/PH, the point is that the Master Sword (used in WW) is the same from OoT, so it's really older than that. About the Phantom Sword used in PH, it's possible for it to be the one referenced (because you bring the materials, but you never see who actually creates it- think of the Pegaso shoes in MC), but, in this case, that part of the plot has little to do with the Triforce.

2-The map: TMC against WW (credit to chrimp from Gamefaqs). If well it's possible that Forest Haven may be the forest in TMC (and that doesn't explain the sudden desapparition of the Great Deku Tree if, as stated before, the game is supposed to happen 100 years after), we would have to accept a really big change in the distances between islands. And the image from the Palace of Winds doesn't make me think of a really big island, getting from the Tower of Gods to Forest Haven (in that case, the flooding would have dropped dramatically- once again negating the 100 years tale told at the beggining of the game).

That way, my idea is that there must be, at least, one or two games between WW/PH and TMC. Maybe it's just because i'm badly influeced by my friend Erimgard, but I think that TMC does not follow directly these games.

 

[Kotowari]

Time line

1. Minish Cap (It's the only one where Link doesn't wear his trademark hat. So it's possible that his outfit during the later games was based on the shape of Ezlo. Since they couldn't make an actual one. x3) But in that case, judging on the birth of the Hero's clothes, you can also make Ocarina of Time the one that started it all… since Link grew up with the Kokiri and they were green-clothed.
But I'm sticking to Minish Cap being the first one… But after reading Went's post, the Minish Cap could come indeed LONG after WW and PH. But I'm unsure about MC details since it's been years since I played those games. And I'm not that good in remembering All details.

2. Four Swords and whatever games of the 4 Swords there are.
The return of Vaati. I have to base myself on the Manga for most games, since I haven't actually played all of the games.
Unsure about actual place
Oracle of Ages and Seasons follow each other in some way.

Same goes for A Link to the past and Link's Awakening, I got this Idea that ALTTP comes before LA, but I'm not so sure, as I can barely remember. I have to judge the manga for this one.

End unsureness

Ocarina of Time directly followed by Majora's Mask After Link left the Temple of time as a child after his adventures in the future, he goes on a search for Navi, the same fairy as OoT. The timeline splits in two here. As the Hyrule that Link left is different from the Hyrule he was sent too by Zelda. If there would be only one timeline, Ganondorf would come back in a few weeks or something and rule for another 7 years, since Link can't fight him as a 10-year old. You know what I mean, right? :3 It's a good reason for a split time-line.

The land of Hyrule where Link got sent back to, after Majora's Mask..
Twilight Princess comes after a whole bunch of years. Hyrule is still quite a bit like the world of Ocarina of Time. Although some locations have changed. The global map of Twilight Princess is still roughly the same as Ocarina of Time.

The land of Hyrule that Link left behind. It's told in the intro of Wind Waker That after Adult Link left, Ganondorf returned, but there was no one to beat him, so the goddesses saved Hyrule by flooding it. It's also commonly known that Phantom Hourglass is the direct sequel to the Wind Waker.

Those that I did not mention are the ones that I a) never played or b) haven't read the manga yet. So shortly, I don't know anything of them.

Telma = Gerudo?
That's hightly possible, seeying as she has some features that are trademarks of the Gerudo Dessert race. 1) She's fairly tanner than most Helians. 2) She has bright red/orange hair and a minor 3) she has facepaint. It's not a big thing, but the Gerudo's in OoT had quite some Make-up. xD

Hero's shade
Many of the things he mentioned give the idea that he knows more of the Hero of Time than one would think at first glance. If he is the Link of Ocarina of Time, it would be acceptable. Since he has seen a lot of the world, Hyrule and Termina. He has fought a lot, met a lot of people and creatures. So he knows a lot too. After all, this might seem a little weird, but I see the Link of Ocarina of Time, as (the only) real hero. The Title of Hero of Time weighs more than any other title. Ocarina of Time is probably one of the biggest games around, and the story is greater too. None of the other heroes had to wait 7 years before he could touch the Master Sword. He was young, but still…

 

[Vanilla Kitsune]

UGGGH. What's with all the theorizing? I am so lost. XD

 

[JBCBlank]

UGGGH. What's with all the theorizing? I am so lost. XD

You're not the only one Vanilla.... *eyes swirl* In truth I think that the split time theory is the best to explain why TLOZ goes everywhere yet nowhere at the same time. When eventually i get it done.... hmmmm... Queen's Guardian will be meant to join the split of the Time theory. How you ask. Well with help from the club of course. The basic plot for Queen's Guardian is pretty much done. Pink is the good, Mosquett is the bad.

Bosses I have planned out, the only thing is I need help tying it in with the rest of the LOZ games.... once I have the demo I'm going to link it here so you guys can see it. Hopefully I won't be 35 by then.... hmm..

~JBCBlank

 

[Banjora Marxvile]

Ocarina of Time directly followed by Majora's Mask After Link left the Temple of time as a child after his adventures in the future, he goes on a search for Navi, the same fairy as OoT. The timeline splits in two here. As the Hyrule that Link left is different from the Hyrule he was sent too by Zelda. If there would be only one timeline, Ganondorf would come back in a few weeks or something and rule for another 7 years, since Link can't fight him as a 10-year old. You know what I mean, right? :3 It's a good reason for a split time-line.

now, what is said here can be different. In OoT, Link goes into the Sacred Realm and defeats Ganon, Zelda puts him in a different realm. Zelda then took Link back to his own time. 3 things could occur here:

1. What you said
2. Link has caused a paradox: he is in both the Temple of Time awaiting 7 years and Termina.
3. That when ganon was defeated, his reign never took place, but only link knew cos he was teleported back, Navi went missing then Link searched for her. Basically, when Ganon was defeated, everything that took place within the 7 years didn't happen, and won't happen. Only Link and Navi know that it happened/didn't happen. Ganon was still sealed away and then broke free for Wind Waker to occur. (It's confusing isn't it?)

 

[.-'Infernal Hylian'-.]

Time line

1. Minish Cap (It's the only one where Link doesn't wear his trademark hat. So it's possible that his outfit during the later games was based on the shape of Ezlo. Since they couldn't make an actual one. x3) But in that case, judging on the birth of the Hero's clothes, you can also make Ocarina of Time the one that started it all… since Link grew up with the Kokiri and they were green-clothed.
But I'm sticking to Minish Cap being the first one… But after reading Went's post, the Minish Cap could come indeed LONG after WW and PH. But I'm unsure about MC details since it's been years since I played those games. And I'm not that good in remembering All details.

2. Four Swords and whatever games of the 4 Swords there are.
The return of Vaati. I have to base myself on the Manga for most games, since I haven't actually played all of the games.
Unsure about actual place
Oracle of Ages and Seasons follow each other in some way.

Same goes for A Link to the past and Link's Awakening, I got this Idea that ALTTP comes before LA, but I'm not so sure, as I can barely remember. I have to judge the manga for this one.

End unsureness

Ocarina of Time directly followed by Majora's Mask After Link left the Temple of time as a child after his adventures in the future, he goes on a search for Navi, the same fairy as OoT. The timeline splits in two here. As the Hyrule that Link left is different from the Hyrule he was sent too by Zelda. If there would be only one timeline, Ganondorf would come back in a few weeks or something and rule for another 7 years, since Link can't fight him as a 10-year old. You know what I mean, right? :3 It's a good reason for a split time-line.

The land of Hyrule where Link got sent back to, after Majora's Mask..
Twilight Princess comes after a whole bunch of years. Hyrule is still quite a bit like the world of Ocarina of Time. Although some locations have changed. The global map of Twilight Princess is still roughly the same as Ocarina of Time.

The land of Hyrule that Link left behind. It's told in the intro of Wind Waker That after Adult Link left, Ganondorf returned, but there was no one to beat him, so the goddesses saved Hyrule by flooding it. It's also commonly known that Phantom Hourglass is the direct sequel to the Wind Waker.

Those that I did not mention are the ones that I a) never played or b) haven't read the manga yet. So shortly, I don't know anything of them.

Telma = Gerudo?
That's hightly possible, seeying as she has some features that are trademarks of the Gerudo Dessert race. 1) She's fairly tanner than most Helians. 2) She has bright red/orange hair and a minor 3) she has facepaint. It's not a big thing, but the Gerudo's in OoT had quite some Make-up. xD

Hero's shade
Many of the things he mentioned give the idea that he knows more of the Hero of Time than one would think at first glance. If he is the Link of Ocarina of Time, it would be acceptable. Since he has seen a lot of the world, Hyrule and Termina. He has fought a lot, met a lot of people and creatures. So he knows a lot too. After all, this might seem a little weird, but I see the Link of Ocarina of Time, as (the only) real hero. The Title of Hero of Time weighs more than any other title. Ocarina of Time is probably one of the biggest games around, and the story is greater too. None of the other heroes had to wait 7 years before he could touch the Master Sword. He was young, but still…

Sorry to ruin this but heres a fact, shigeru myamoto said ocarina of time is definalty the first game...

 

[TRIFORCE89]

Woah. Lots to read. Anyone want to sum it up? I can try to answer everything.

 

[Erimgard]

Ah, now this is my kind of thread! I don't have time to read through the whole thing right now, but allow me to give a few brief statements.

Anyone who used to see me around here and wonders why I've been gone...ZELDA. I'm an avid Zelda fan and a member of several Zelda forums.

I recently won the Best Theorist award at ZeldaUniverse...the world's largest Zelda site :D
I'd be happy to answer any questions or do a little Zelda sparring with someone here, but for now, I'm going to post a few things:

My Timeline
Originally I nicknamed it the "Freshly Picked Oracles" Timeline, because it has a controversial placement of the Oracle games, and touches a little bit on the subject of the spin-off game: Freshly Picked Tingle's Rosy Rupeeland, and how it might actually have some relevance to the Timeline.

Since then, about a dozen other members at ZU adopted this timeline as well. I was actually only the second ZU member to get this timeline and since then, Lex [the other member with this timeline] and I have convinced quite a few other people.
So, without further ado:

...../WW-PH--LoZ-AoL--OoS/OoA--[FPTRR]--MC--FS-FSA--aLttP-LA
OoT
.....\MM--TP

Important theories/concepts/facts I use to support this:
-Ocarina of Time is the Imprisoning/Seal War, but does not need to directly precede aLttP.
-The Koroks eventually succeed in uniting all the Islands together into one Island...thus resulting in the Hyrule we see in FSA and aLttP
-Minish Cap features books in it's library, that when translated into English, are "Triumph Forks" [a distorted name for the Triforce] and the names of the Oracle games, hinting that it comes after both.
-In Minish Cap, the Oracles are looking for a home, also hinting that MC comes after OoS/OoA
-FPTRR features Hyrule as a series of large continent-like Islands, hinting at the Koroks success of bringing the islands together. It also features Subrosians who talk about assisting a hero in defeating a demon. Subrosians are only seen elsewhere in Oracle of Seasons.
-FSA Ganondorf is a reincarnation of the original Ganondorf, and becomes "blue pig Ganon" by acquiring the Trident

Any questions/comments you have for me are welcome!

Also, I write articles for a group called The Bombers. All the articles are Zelda-related, and many are theories. Here's two I've done:

Disproving the Gametrailers timeline
A detailed critiquing of one of the most popular theories out there.

The Skull Kid and the Tower
An explanation of one of the many mysteries in Majora's Mask.

I'll try to check this semi-regularly.

 

[young_link]

i just have one question. in ocarina of time when you enter the lost woods and you find skull kid (in adult form he will start attacking you) is it the same one as in majoras mask? or is there more than one skull kid?

 

[Erimgard]

There is more than one Skull Kid, but the one on the stump who you play Saria's song too and give a mask too is the same one from Majora's Mask.
At the end of Majora's Mask, he sniffs you and says you smell like the fairy kid who taught him a song [reference to OoT]

 

[TRIFORCE89]

Awesome. I love reading the Bombers articles. I'm not as active in the Zelda community as I once was Erimgard, but I do uhh...browse. I haven't posted in ages anywhere, but I do read up on all the latest theories at the major forums. I've seen your theory before and it's partly why I purchased Tingle RPG recently. Nice to see someone else here who actually knows stuff. XD

It's a little late over here and I don't feel like going into great detail at the moment. I haven't finished Tingle yet (I only just picked it up), but I haven't seen much to connect it with anything. I'm only in the second continent so far. Anything going to show up later to suggest a relationship between the Salona and the Subrosians besides appearance?

 

[Erimgard]

Awesome. I love reading the Bombers articles. I'm not as active in the Zelda community as I once was Erimgard, but I do uhh...browse. I haven't posted in ages anywhere, but I do read up on all the latest theories at the major forums. I've seen your theory before and it's partly why I purchased Tingle RPG recently. Nice to see someone else here who actually knows stuff. XD

Thanks :] Well, The Bombers have been slightly inactive as of late, but we're getting things moving again, and I might have a new article up in about two weeks. The site's a bit messy at the moment though, because ZI merged with Absolute Zelda, so some of the links are broken.

It's a little late over here and I don't feel like going into great detail at the moment. I haven't finished Tingle yet (I only just picked it up), but I haven't seen much to connect it with anything. I'm only in the second continent so far. Anything going to show up later to suggest a relationship between the Salona and the Subrosians besides appearance?

Well, the Salona look identical to the Subrosians. We know "Salona" isn't their actual name, but their job. They claim to have helped a hero against a demon previously, and they look just like Subrosians.

There's not a lot in FPTRR that connects the games, but the geography is an indicator. Instead of playing on a big land, or a series of small islands, we play on a a series of large islands that are fairly close together, which hints that the Koroks are successful at making the islands bigger.

Also, many people claim that FSA has to be near OoT, because it contains similar places [Lon Lon Ranch, Death Mountain, Lost Woods etc]. But in FPTRR, lots of the Island areas have familiar names. Lon Lon Meadows, the Deku Forest, and a familiar-looking mountain. To me, this shows that once all these islands came together to form the Hyrule of FSA/aLttP, these places became Lon Lon Ranch and the Forest of Light/Lost Woods.

Unfortunately, due to time, I haven't gotten very far in FPTRR myself. I've been very busy *cough*playing Earthbound *cough*

 

[TRIFORCE89]

And, some official art for AoL shows it to be very watery and made of islands.

 

[Sounds]

hey cn i join the legend of Zelda is one of my fav game,nd the best Zelda game for me is
Zelda the minishcap

 

[Erimgard]

The in-game map as well.
And in the manual, the scroll written by the King states that the Triforce of Courage is hidden in a palace on "the largest Island in Hyrule". So Hyrule was definitely Island-based in AoL, which is one of the reasons I like it on the Adult Timeline.

Also, it's interesting to note that LoZ Hyrule is very likely a small portion of AoL Hyrule.
The Manual for LoZ doesn't actually state that you're in "Hyrule" per se, but that you're in a "little kingdom in the land of Hyrule". The Japanese word used for "land" refers to a vast region, implying that you are just in one small part of the true Hyrule.
When AoL was made, it pretty much confirmed this:

https://img228.imageshack.us/img228/5551/zeldaiiadventureoflinkhnj5.png
Look in the lower left-hand corner and we see:
Death Mountain [range]
Spectacle Rock
A graveyard southwest of Death Mountain
Twin ponds

Now, look at the LoZ map:
https://img228.imageshack.us/img228/1999/legendofzeldafirstquestsz3.png
Once again:
Death Mountain as a range, not a single mountain or twin-peak like it is in most games
Spectacle Rock
A graveyard southwest of Death Mountain
Twin ponds nearby

Pretty sure Nintendo intended for LoZ to be that small little area in the bottom left-hand corner of AoL Hyrule...shows you how vast the Zelda world really is.

 

[JBCBlank]

hey cn i join the legend of Zelda is one of my fav game,nd the best Zelda game for me is
Zelda the minishcap

As the LOZ Co-owner #2... I think... or was I 3?... W/E anyway... you are accepted into the Club. enjoy yourself, read what the awesome ones write... love LOZ with all you got... and try to groove with the acronyms, I still have trouble with them so don't worry about it. XD.

~JBCBlank

 

[Rinku]

may i please join this club? Legend of Zelda rules! I've played most of the games and know a lot about the split timeline theory. Allow me to explain.

There is more than one Skull Kid, but the one on the stump who you play Saria's song too and give a mask too is the same one from Majora's Mask.
At the end of Majora's Mask, he sniffs you and says you smell like the fairy kid who taught him a song [reference to OoT]

yes, Skull Kid has appeared in multiple Zelda titles. He might not seem important to the main story at all to some, but he does clear up the "where does twilight princess fit" thing.
That mysterious imp in TP when you go into Sacred Grove is infact Skull Kid (obvious to some) but it is the SAME EXACT Skull Kid from Majora's mask. How? his skin is blue... and the Skull Kid from MM didn't have a face... and he is the same one in another game as well... here's the story: after he got rejected by Majora's Mask, it set an eternal curse upon him. The curses affects are as follows: he shall be stuck in his own time, never to age, never to die, never to have a soul. rotting skin and horribly disfigured face was another "negitively immortal" affect. and he shall be alone, forever. never to know the feeling of "trust" or "being trusted" How does this affect the Timeline in any way? TP is actually the last thing in Hyrule A because of my own "Skull Kid" theory and because Ganon dies (not sure real death, or another banishment) in the end. So the next Zelda Game is either between MM and TP in Hyrule A, or a game not featuring Ganon, but another villain (Vaati, Zant, new guy), that would belong somewhere at the end of Hyrule B, having another "flashback" intro like WW.
This is just my theory. What do you guys think?

 

[Banjora Marxvile]

may i please join this club? Legend of Zelda rules! I've played most of the games and know a lot about the split timeline theory. Allow me to explain.



yes, Skull Kid has appeared in multiple Zelda titles. He might not seem important to the main story at all to some, but he does clear up the "where does twilight princess fit" thing.
That mysterious imp in TP when you go into Sacred Grove is infact Skull Kid (obvious to some) but it is the SAME EXACT Skull Kid from Majora's mask. How? his skin is blue... and the Skull Kid from MM didn't have a face... and he is the same one in another game as well... here's the story: after he got rejected by Majora's Mask, it set an eternal curse upon him. The curses affects are as follows: he shall be stuck in his own time, never to age, never to die, never to have a soul. rotting skin and horribly disfigured face was another "negitively immortal" affect. and he shall be alone, forever. never to know the feeling of "trust" or "being trusted" How does this affect the Timeline in any way? TP is actually the last thing in Hyrule A because of my own "Skull Kid" theory and because Ganon dies (not sure real death, or another banishment) in the end. So the next Zelda Game is either between MM and TP in Hyrule A, or a game not featuring Ganon, but another villain (Vaati, Zant, new guy), that would belong somewhere at the end of Hyrule B, having another "flashback" intro like WW.
This is just my theory. What do you guys think?

Nice theory... but all Skull kids I've seen have no face...

Anyway, if the next game does link that in, it would explain a whole lot of what happened between MM and TP.

 

[Vanilla Kitsune]

We are getting so many members! It does my heart good to know this club still recieves love. XD

 

[Erimgard]

I doubt we'll see a game in between MM and TP. Nintendo has pretty much made an effort to not limit themselves. By making a game in a somewhat tight space like that, and working with the TP backstory...they'd be limiting themselves.

The last time they actually made a game to be the backstory of another, [OoT as the backstory of aLttP] a lot of trouble arose. The game itself was great, of course, but since then we've been plagued with inconsistencies and problems when trying to determine if OoT can still be the Imprisoning War, and why there are some things that don't match up.

I think with the release of Four Swords Adventures, the Zelda team made it pretty clear that they won't be making any more direct prequels...sound a little strange? I shall try to explain:

Because of WW's release, OoT being the Imprisoning War had a few problems [most of which can be justified, but eh, that's a topic for another day], so many fans didn't believe it was the IW anymore...and it appears that Nintendo itself [mainly Eiji Aonuma] set out to make a more accurate IW.

When searching through text dumps, Japanese translator "Jumbie" discovered that there are some bits of text that were removed from FSA. Most notably, Seven Sages are mentioned a couple of times. Also, there was removed text about the children of these days not learning Ancient Hylian.

In an interview, Eiji said partway through production of FSA, Shigeru Miyamoto found out what the plot was that the team was working on...and made them change it. They were forced to "change it all the way up to the very end". Since "Seven Sages" were removed from the game, and so was "forgetting Hylian" [Hylian is a dead language in aLttP] it's likely that FSA was meant to be aLttP's backstory, and Shigeru would not allow them to do that.

It's also notable that Minish Cap is thought by many to be a prequel to Four Swords [and it clearly does have to come sometime before it] but several things about MC were intentionally different from FS's backstory.
1: Vaati isn't known as a Wind Mage yet in MC
2: Vaati doesn't kidnap maidens in MC
3: Vaati appears to die in MC...instead of being sealed.

I think Nintendo, and mostly Shigeru, have abandoned the idea of making direct prequels, because they are just too limiting and cause too many problems if they decide to change timeline placement later.