The Official Misty (Bring Her Back) Club !

[Crystal Clair]

Misty: "Just keep doing your best".
Ash: "Uh...What do you mean?"
Misty "Well you know...Without me there...."

To me, that quote, when I first heard it, it was the straw that broke the camel's back. I dont remember if I cried but I probably did.

Weedle, according to Pocketmonsters DP93 is the one where Melissa makes her first appearance so it'd be kinda sudden for Misty to suddenly show up in the very next episode.

I didn't think it sounded one bit like Misty though, that song that played the second she finished speaking. And weirdly enough, I once heard a song very similar to that one. Maybe it was ripped off.

 

[weedle_mchairybug]

To me, that quote, when I first heard it, it was the straw that broke the camel's back. I dont remember if I cried but I probably did.

Weedle, according to Pocketmonsters DP93 is the one where Melissa makes her first appearance so it'd be kinda sudden for Misty to suddenly show up in the very next episode.

I didn't think it sounded one bit like Misty though, that song that played the second she finished speaking. And weirdly enough, I once heard a song very similar to that one. Maybe it was ripped off.

Yeah, true, but then again, the Mirage Kingdom Arc seemed a bit sudden as well, even for those who DID watch Date With Delcatty. Heck, her reappearing in Ash's Return to Kanto seemed a tiny bit sudden as well.

And also, what broke the camel's back for me was "Maxxed Out", since that's technically when I heard her voice.

Speaking of Fantina, ten Pokedollars says that Fantina would be busted by the PIA for abandoning the gym (I mean, if Misty's sisters being absent nearly caused the gym to be shut down, how would the PIA allow Hearthome Gym to operationally contine? I seriously doubt they would have, really.)

Also, as I've said, I can't watch it due to the boycott (then again, even if I weren't on boycott, I still can't watch it due to the fact that we kinda had to eliminate cable from our tv, and since Cartoon Network was on our Cable provider, well...)

 

[Crystal Clair]

And also, what broke the camel's back for me was "Maxxed Out", since that's technically when I heard her voice.

Where was her voice? The only thing I remember about that episode was that it was Nurse Joy's first episode where she didn't have her original voice actor. Boy was that a dramatic day but that's besides the point. I know Jessie doesn't sound that much like Misty so that cant be it...
was it Maxx?... or was it Surskit.

 

[sirboulevard]

Speaking of Fantina, ten Pokedollars says that Fantina would be busted by the PIA for abandoning the gym (I mean, if Misty's sisters being absent nearly caused the gym to be shut down, how would the PIA allow Hearthome Gym to operationally contine? I seriously doubt they would have, really.)

I don't think the PIA shuts down gyms for the leader being absent. Gym Leaders have been seen in places besides their gyms ie: Whitney was on her day off when Ash met her, Jasmine taking care of Amphy/Sparky, Viridian Gym was still open w/out a proper leader with Agatha working as an interim (meaing that all E4 challenges were probably canceled), and Erika works as the manager of her perfume shop meaning she's probably only there on certain days or has an Assitant Leader who takes challengers for her. I think the reason the PIA would have shut down Cerulean Gym is because the Sensational Sisters were going to be gone for a full year, which is unacceptable for a vacation(the PIA seems very relaxed though, they did let Daisy give out badges w/out any battling). Plus Misty has to close the gym every time she needs Gym Badges from Kinso. So, Fantina could have (a) been on official Gym business (which could have taken a while if she was getting her badges from Kinso as well, Rifore is a long way from Sinnoh), (b) on a sanctioned vacation, (c) working (several gym leaders have 2nd jobs), (d) had been called to Pokemon League HQ (I bet Gym Leaders have to talk to the boss sometimes and she is new and foreign so she may have needed extra counseling).

Also I dont think american viewers can claim the Mirage Kingdom arc wasnt a surprise really. A Date with Delcatty (which is my favorite Misty EP, BTW) wasnt dubbed until 2 years after the Mirage Kingdom Arc and it didnt mention Misty visiting Ash, it only happened in the Japanese version. [\Rant Mode] Nice to meet you, btw!

 

[weedle_mchairybug]

I don't think the PIA shuts down gyms for the leader being absent. Gym Leaders have been seen in places besides their gyms ie: Whitney was on her day off when Ash met her, Jasmine taking care of Amphy/Sparky, Viridian Gym was still open w/out a proper leader with Agatha working as an interim (meaing that all E4 challenges were probably canceled), and Erika works as the manager of her perfume shop meaning she's probably only there on certain days or has an Assitant Leader who takes challengers for her. I think the reason the PIA would have shut down Cerulean Gym is because the Sensational Sisters were going to be gone for a full year, which is unacceptable for a vacation(the PIA seems very relaxed though, they did let Daisy give out badges w/out any battling). Plus Misty has to close the gym every time she needs Gym Badges from Kinso. So, Fantina could have (a) been on official Gym business (which could have taken a while if she was getting her badges from Kinso as well, Rifore is a long way from Sinnoh), (b) on a sanctioned vacation, (c) working (several gym leaders have 2nd jobs), (d) had been called to Pokemon League HQ (I bet Gym Leaders have to talk to the boss sometimes and she is new and foreign so she may have needed extra counseling).

Well, the Amphy/Sparky thing was probably acceptable since it would have been a greater good to have to skip out of the gym rather than risk Ampharos succumbing even further from the illness (since, if she didn't skip out, far too many ships of all classes would have ended up as shipwrecks.)

As for Viridian Gym, it would have been a moot point since Giovanni was Fired.

Celadon Gym at least had SOMEONE keeping the gym tidy and challenging the gym, and anyways, it's also hinted that she runs the gym at night (since that was what it was when Erika was holding those classes, as well as when she challenged Ash.)

Fantina, on the other hand, was gone for much longer than a day, possibly even a month or more, since it was implied in Dawn's early night that she was gone long before Ash and co arrived in Hearthome, and she was still gone by the time they revisited Hearthome, and considering the fact that there was a note stating not to find her typical to how the gym is labeled to be closed, I'd say that she didn't even leave it to her attendants.

also, theres another situation, e, spending that entire month doing contests and other things instead of doing her duty as a gym leader.

Also I dont think american viewers can claim the Mirage Kingdom arc wasnt a surprise really. A Date with Delcatty (which is my favorite Misty EP, BTW) wasnt dubbed until 2 years after the Mirage Kingdom Arc and it didnt mention Misty visiting Ash, it only happened in the Japanese version. [\Rant Mode] Nice to meet you, btw!

err... Dogasu kinda did when he reviewed the Princess and the Togepi, and he even said that the line of Misty becoming a great gym leader is apparantly in the original version of Date with delcatty in his comparison of that episode. Then again, he might have made a mistake, considering how Dogasu mentioned the same "misconception" that Misty decides to visit Hoenn as soon as her sisters "decomission" her.

And nice to meet you too.

@Crystal Clair: I was referring to an incident at May 25th, 2006 at Scottish rites. I was forced to watch AG (I was fearful about watching it since I had memories of Arthur calling DW and whatever she watches/reads/does as being Babyish multiple episodes.), and, well, I heard a whiny, poodlish voice, which I thought was May at the time (which would also explain why I hated her, since it did remind me of a FAS.). however, it turned out to be a surskit that was the culprit. but even with that revalation, the actions she commited still reminded me of... well, the you-know-what.

well, anyone want to comment of the first part of my BMB video?

 

[sirboulevard]

It still does not change the fact that she MAY have had PIA approval. If they signed off she could have left and the gym would not be closed.

Also anyone have a misty related topic?

 

[weedle_mchairybug]

It still does not change the fact that she MAY have had PIA approval. If they signed off she could have left and the gym would not be closed.

Also anyone have a misty related topic?

Err... does reviews for the first part of a Bring Misty Back video count as a Misty Related Topic? Because I kinda did start it fairly recently.

As for whether she had PIA approval or not, let's wait until we return to Hearthome for the third consecutive time to see (if the PIA makes an appearance with something similar to a bazooka, I'm afraid that it wasn't with their approval.)

 

[sirboulevard]

Lol, that was a reference to Agent Thedora. I miss those Misty episodes. They should have been a series in of themselves (it was more interesting than Ash's adventures). Agent Thedora & the PIA would've been a great villian. For those of you who have no clue what we're referencing it's this PIA scene from Cerulean Blues.

EDIT: BTW, did anyone else notice it was the Trovita Gym that the PIA shut down in that episode? Maybe the PIA were just closing down the Orange League?

 

[weedle_mchairybug]

well, I haven't seen Agent Thedora (as a matter of fact, this is the first time I've heard of it.), so that might blow past me.

Though, yeah, I see what you mean by it. I mean, Misty didn't really have the same staleness problem since she at least didn't have a set goal, which, in theory, would make her more interesting since she can do literally anything she puts her mind to do it at, whileas if they had a set goal, they would only get more boring over time (Hence, why Ash, Team Rocket, and Brock are currently getting threads requesting that they get ousted [then again, Brock isn't technically following up on his goal due to the fact that he never got any of his pokemon to mate and produce an egg even ONCE.)

Also, I think that they were meaning another town with the name Trovita that had a gym in it. I mean, i think it was clearly established that they were tagging gyms in KANTO (hence why Misty was trying to get back to her gym ASAP, as well as why Cerulean Blue even took place.), and the last time I checked, the Orange Islands aren't a part of kanto, no more than Johto is a part of the Kanto Region.

Speaking of the PIA, I'm a bit surprised that they kept Pewter Gym as a Gym considering how it's reputation is currently as bad as Cerulean Gym's reputation. I mean, it was stated that the final Gym to have a PIA inspection test in Kanto was Cerulean Gym, so they were bound to have inspected Pewter Gym sometime beforehand. I mean, Flint surrendered the gym to Lola, and Lola gave it a "makeover" that would have constituted as Vandalism (which constitutes under the three "U's" In indecent gym running.), and that it was unsafe for most of the rock pokemon (most of the arena had water in it), and, heck they even allowed a second Vandalism attempt in "Grating Spaces". I mean, that in itself WOULD have warranted the PIA to shut down the gym. Heck, Forrest didn't even attempt to stop his mom from allowing it (I mean, since he is the gym leader of the gym, her son or not, he should have a say in what the gym should be or should not be, and would even possibly kick her out if it means keeping the gym at it's upmost standards.)

Also, I'm sorry if I'm going to sound like a little kid, But I worked hard on trying to edit and upload Part one of the Misty video (In fact, it was the hardest video I ever worked on/uploaded onto youtube.): getting Pinnacle studios, getting a new computer to install it properly, switching editing softwares, replacing softwares, trying my hardest to put in the blur effects on a certain part of Kanako Urashima just to make it tasteful for the audience at large, cutting out SEVERAL scenes because I wasn't able to edit them, and I worked on a deadline, trying so hard to upload onto Youtube but failed either due to repeats, the server giving way, or just flat out not giving good results (I.E., that visual problem.), contacting Pinnacle Studios for the fourth time to ask how to upload, asked them whether Version 12 allows multiple blurs in one scene or not, searching for other video editing softwares just to find one that can have the multiple blurs option, downloading the upgrade, going through tutorial, tried rearranging the settings after a few bad tries where it couldn't download the product (even cutting out a part of the ending), and then finally completing the downloads, Just so I could supply you guys with a complete video for our cause.

When someone doesn't comment on something I contributed to the thread, it really hurts me and makes me feel unappreciated, as if all that hard work was a waste. I mean, how would you guys feel if you guys worked so hard on something just for some people, and yet your work get's ignored by these very same people.

So Please, please, PLEASE try and give any reviews for part one of the Misty video.

for a bit of a brain refresher, here's a video of it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0OowSxgEcE&feature=related

Please comment on it this time.

thanks.

Also, one last note, I really do need to know exactly when will the summary/title for DP094 be released? I mean, for 3 or four saturdays in a row, we haven't gotten any summary updates since the Fantina episode.

that's all for now.

EDIT: you might need to click the link to see the video, since the youtube coding isn't working.

 

[sirboulevard]

Uh, Agent Thedora is the PIA inspector who was shutting the Gyms down and the one Misty thought was coming to Cerulean City instead of Agent Joy. He's the PIA inspector on the right in the picture. And the gym wasnt called by name, but The image of the close gym on the TV screen at the begining of the episode was Trovita (probably a subtle reference to Rudy who hit on Misty when they visited that gym), as for Lola's doing, it was stated that she had converted the gym from a rock gym to a water gym with PIA approval because when Brock came home she was the Gym Leader. if she returned when the PIA were there they probably let her contest his status as Gym Leader, like the Invincible Pokemon Brothers did to Misty. And Region doesnt matter because Agent Joy left to Inspect the Hoenn Gyms after Cerulean Blues (she mentions it in dialog to misty who asks her if she sees ash to tell her she's doing ok).

Ok, off the PIA tangent the group is on.
How should Misty return? As a regular on the old series or should she get her own?
Personally, I thought the Misty Chronicle Episodes were better than her as regular. She has earned her own show and she technically could have so many more recurring characters (we've already met a number of Cerulean City residents like The Sensational Sisters Fan Club, Georgio, etc.) since she stays in one spot. Not to mention: GYM BATTLES!

 

[weedle_mchairybug]

Ok, off the PIA tangent the group is on.
How should Misty return? As a regular on the old series or should she get her own?
Personally, I thought the Misty Chronicle Episodes were better than her as regular. She has earned her own show and she technically could have so many more recurring characters (we've already met a number of Cerulean City residents like The Sensational Sisters Fan Club, Georgio, etc.) since she stays in one spot. Not to mention: GYM BATTLES!

Umm... I might take your word for it. However, I personally prefer a return as a regular on the "Old" series. I mean, from what I've observed in regards to gym leaders, their overall strength is comparable to that of JJM. I really don't want to see Misty as a failure, and since JJM are labeled as complete losers (especially in regards to their strength level.), by having her as a gym leader, from my estimates, she'll end up being 1% of her former strength. I mean, have any of you noticed how most of the gym leaders seemed to be beaten rather too easily by Ash (I think the only time he actually LOST to a gym leader prior between Kanto and Sinnoh was against Brawly and possibly Claire, though don't take my word for it.), and also, the mere fact that they lose to rookies by the day seems to imply that they aren't really strong. I mean, when JJM, say lost to Ash's Caterpie, or to Dawn's Piplup, despite the fact that they have far MORE experience than either of them, they were labeled as Pathetic by the entire fandom (No offense, JJM fans, just stating a point.), so how is Gym Leaders losing to rookies any different?

Besides, It would not only be in the best interests of her, but also to countless people all over the world (If you want to know exactly what I mean, please watch part one of the video. I'm sorry if I'm sounding like a broken record, but I really want to hear how you guys felt about the video, since I worked so hard on it for ALL of my friends, both real life and on the net, and I would feel like I wasted all of my time trying to make the video if people didn't comment on it. And plus, I don't want to end up having to repeat the entire rant anyways.).

Anyways, who says that what she did on the show wasn't interesting, or rather, important. I mean, it was thanks to her that many problems were solved.

BTW, whoever posts next really needs to comment on the video, since I don't want to ask anymore of it, but I also would feel unappreciated and as if my hard work on it was a waste. In fact, at least 6 comments should suffice. After that, I won't have to ask anymore.

Anyways, that's all for now.

 

[Nintendo.Hime]

Hi all, I'm just saying hi because I haven't posted in this thread yet. You can call me Kez if you'd like. I'm a big fan of Misty from when I was younger and I want to get back in touch with that. i even cosplayed as her not too long ago, and if you want to talk or maybe see the pictures you can IM me on my AIM name. XD i hope to have fun here and I'll be catching up on the reading now!

 

[Witch]

Welcome N.H! ^^
How should Misty return? As a regular on the old series or should she get her own?
-That would be cool if she could get her own series but just to even have her own Arc would be something special/cool. Misty should return! I mean, May is/will be returning in DP so why not misty as well?

 

[sirboulevard]

Umm... I might take your word for it. However, I personally prefer a return as a regular on the "Old" series. I mean, from what I've observed in regards to gym leaders, their overall strength is comparable to that of JJM. I really don't want to see Misty as a failure, and since JJM are labeled as complete losers (especially in regards to their strength level.), by having her as a gym leader, from my estimates, she'll end up being 1% of her former strength. I mean, have any of you noticed how most of the gym leaders seemed to be beaten rather too easily by Ash (I think the only time he actually LOST to a gym leader prior between Kanto and Sinnoh was against Brawly and possibly Claire, though don't take my word for it.), and also, the mere fact that they lose to rookies by the day seems to imply that they aren't really strong. I mean, when JJM, say lost to Ash's Caterpie, or to Dawn's Piplup, despite the fact that they have far MORE experience than either of them, they were labeled as Pathetic by the entire fandom (No offense, JJM fans, just stating a point.), so how is Gym Leaders losing to rookies any different?

Ok, hate to poke holes in your theory, but Gym Leaders have been shown as quite powerful (particularly in Kanto which seems to be the "Flagship Region" of the pokemon League). Yes, Gym Leaders lose to amateurs on occassion, but remember when Ash was a novice he won more than half his badges through honorable deeds after losing the battle. Afterwards he qualifies as a League Trainer, so he's not an amateur anymore and therefore more of a challenge. Also, how long has he been a trainer? If was losing to the gym leaders in sinnoh after all he's been through, he would not be a good trainer. Keep in mind that if you're going to judge Gym Leaders on Ash's performance, Pikachu has to have reached Lv. 100 by now. As for the leagues, only about 64 trainers apply for them each year and Kanto has 11 Gyms according to Gary (see Battle of the Badge) so odds are that most gyms only give out maybe 50 badges a year? Not to mention considering Leaders are required to accept all challengs they get at least 300 challenges a year and factoring good deeds in they lose maybe 30 - 40 battles. I'm not sure but a 10% loss rate seems very good considering League Trainers have an average 50% loss rate (Jimmy has this loss rate and competed in the Johto League, Legend of Thunder, Pokemon Master Quest episodes w/ Vincent Jackson). So I think Misty as a Kanto Gym Leader is very good place for her. Not to mention the League will provide her with newly discovered Pokemon in other Regions without her needing to travel (Luvdisc is a Many Spledored Thing). Plus they probably go easy on Novices since it's their job.

Welcome N.H! ^^
How should Misty return? As a regular on the old series or should she get her own?
-That would be cool if she could get her own series but just to even have her own Arc would be something special/cool. Misty should return! I mean, May is/will be returning in DP so why not misty as well?

Well, there are rumors of her returning in DP 94, but it isn't confirmed. But since we havent had any new updates on pokemon episodes in nearly a month, I betting something big is going to happen in that episode. Misty might be back for her own story arc again.

And welcome aboard NH!

 

[Crystal Clair]

Misty might be back for her own story arc again.

Well it's kinda scary because it was just announced that DP94-95 will be a special

Maybe this is true. I would like Misty to return for an episode after a dream I had about her returning.

 

[weedle_mchairybug]

Ok, hate to poke holes in your theory, but Gym Leaders have been shown as quite powerful (particularly in Kanto which seems to be the "Flagship Region" of the pokemon League). Yes, Gym Leaders lose to amateurs on occassion, but remember when Ash was a novice he won more than half his badges through honorable deeds after losing the battle. Afterwards he qualifies as a League Trainer, so he's not an amateur anymore and therefore more of a challenge. Also, how long has he been a trainer? If was losing to the gym leaders in sinnoh after all he's been through, he would not be a good trainer. Keep in mind that if you're going to judge Gym Leaders on Ash's performance, Pikachu has to have reached Lv. 100 by now. As for the leagues, only about 64 trainers apply for them each year and Kanto has 11 Gyms according to Gary (see Battle of the Badge) so odds are that most gyms only give out maybe 50 badges a year? Not to mention considering Leaders are required to accept all challengs they get at least 300 challenges a year and factoring good deeds in they lose maybe 30 - 40 battles. I'm not sure but a 10% loss rate seems very good considering League Trainers have an average 50% loss rate (Jimmy has this loss rate and competed in the Johto League, Legend of Thunder, Pokemon Master Quest episodes w/ Vincent Jackson). So I think Misty as a Kanto Gym Leader is very good place for her. Not to mention the League will provide her with newly discovered Pokemon in other Regions without her needing to travel (Luvdisc is a Many Spledored Thing). Plus they probably go easy on Novices since it's their job.

ehhh... yeah..., I don't think Lt. Surge was "going easy" on his challengers, especially considering how so many of the challenger's pokemon (even Pikachu) were sent to the ER in that episode. Plus, Sabrina wasn't really going easy on Ash, either.

And... Ash lost against Roark and Gardenia (and had to rematch them, though Gardenia's debatable, since Ash didn't know that Gardenia was a gym leader during the first loss.), Tied with Maylene (which Paul mocked Ash and Maylene openly for that [and in the case of the latter, her losing so easily.].), and it's hinted that he may lose against Fantina (unless they pull a whitney on us and have him win and get the badge from her.), and this was AFTER he won the Battle frontier, run by people rumored to be far stronger than EVEN the Elite 4. I can understand his other pokemon's losses, but Pikachu's losses don't make any sense. So...

Anyways, I wasn't JUST basing it off of Ash's strength level, I was basing it off of the newly-starting trainers.

Also, about being purported to being very strong, I can't be too certain of that. I mean, JJM were labeled as very dangerous criminals near the beginning of the series (as shown by their wanted bulletin in Pokemon Emergency), and, according to JJM [and in the case of Battle aboard the St. Anne, even Giovanni], they were one of the more elite members of Team Rocket, and yet, they lose all the time to even pokemon starting out in life (like Caterpie beating JJM, and, in the case of Two Degrees of Separation, being beaten by a barely experienced Piplup [yes, I know Pikachu helped, but still.].), and because of that most of the fanbase labeled them as pathetic (I'm only going by what people say though.), I mean, if they were labeled as such by the fanbase... I'm sorry, but I still don't see how it will be any different for GLs.

Well, there are rumors of her returning in DP 94, but it isn't confirmed. But since we havent had any new updates on pokemon episodes in nearly a month, I betting something big is going to happen in that episode. Misty might be back for her own story arc again.

Yes, I know. At first, I was a bit annoyed at the fact that they were delaying episode summaries this much, but I then realized that it could be a back-to-back special, which could mean something big. Though, I don't really think it would be something like the Togetic Arc, since that same arc didn't air as a back-to-back special from what I've read, and the return to pallet town thing definitely wasn't back to back, which, if the Misty thing is true, means she's officially returning to the Main Cast. Yes, I know the fansite has a high chance of being wrong, but after how the Austrailian Magazine "K-Zone" leaked several episodes summaries (most of which turned out to be true, moreorless), I'm not willing to take any chances.

Besides, how is the spanish fansite any different from "Pokeani"? I mean, Pokeani is a fansite as well, and yet when an episode title is published on there, people will state that it's true just because it was japanese, regardless if it's a fansite or not. I mean, I'm willing to bet that if Pokeani posted the information on there, people will be blindly stating it's true even if it may not be.

Also, Welcome Nintendo.Hime! Hope you enjoy it here.

Anyways, that's all for now.

 

[sirboulevard]

ehhh... yeah..., I don't think Lt. Surge was "going easy" on his challengers, especially considering how so many of the challenger's pokemon (even Pikachu) were sent to the ER in that episode. Plus, Sabrina wasn't really going easy on Ash, either.

And... Ash lost against Roark and Gardenia (and had to rematch them, though Gardenia's debatable, since Ash didn't know that Gardenia was a gym leader during the first loss.), Tied with Maylene (which Paul mocked Ash and Maylene openly for that [and in the case of the latter, her losing so easily.].), and it's hinted that he may lose against Fantina (unless they pull a whitney on us and have him win and get the badge from her.), and this was AFTER he won the Battle frontier, run by people rumored to be far stronger than EVEN the Elite 4. I can understand his other pokemon's losses, but Pikachu's losses don't make any sense. So...

Anyways, I wasn't JUST basing it off of Ash's strength level, I was basing it off of the newly-starting trainers.

Also, about being purported to being very strong, I can't be too certain of that. I mean, JJM were labeled as very dangerous criminals near the beginning of the series (as shown by their wanted bulletin in Pokemon Emergency), and, according to JJM [and in the case of Battle aboard the St. Anne, even Giovanni], they were one of the more elite members of Team Rocket, and yet, they lose all the time to even pokemon starting out in life (like Caterpie beating JJM, and, in the case of Two Degrees of Separation, being beaten by a barely experienced Piplup [yes, I know Pikachu helped, but still.].), and because of that most of the fanbase labeled them as pathetic (I'm only going by what people say though.), I mean, if they were labeled as such by the fanbase... I'm sorry, but I still don't see how it will be any different for GLs.

Ok, you can't judge Gym Leaders against TR or E4. Team Rocket is pathetic, yes. But if Ash and Pikachu hadn't been there about 3/4 of their heists would have worked. So, they probably were Elite Agents at some point. Their obsession with Pikachu is what has made them weak. (As for the caterpie thing, I think that was them being over confident, seriously who's scared of a Caterpie. Then they got tied up) Now look at the Gym Leaders Strategies. They're pretty straight forward. Use basic attacks and a few unique advanced signature attacks. They're supposed to test the trainers not defeat them. If they win the battle they qualify as good trainer in the leaders eyes. The Gym Leader isn't actively searching for a win, but they aren't going to just hand out badges either. It's the same reason why Max lost his battle at Roxanne's school. You have to think outside the box to win against good trainers, not just follow the rulebook. As for Surge, his battle technique was strike with out mercy, but he did teach a lesson in carefully examining a pokemon's abilities before evolving them. Sabrina is a special case. She had severe psychological trauma when we first met her. Her battling skills were unbeatable due to the psychic link with her pokemon (instant information from both her and kadabra and both probably thought their commands to each other). The Sinnoh Leaders? Well, I admit Ash has lost a few times, but it is canon that Roark, Gardenia, and Maylene are relatively new to being Gym Leaders (Roark and Gardenia aren't new trainers however and have been training most of their lives, so they have to be stronger than Ash) so they may be the example of a gym leaders true strength.

 

[weedle_mchairybug]

Ok, you can't judge Gym Leaders against TR or E4. Team Rocket is pathetic, yes. But if Ash and Pikachu hadn't been there about 3/4 of their heists would have worked. So, they probably were Elite Agents at some point. Their obsession with Pikachu is what has made them weak. (As for the caterpie thing, I think that was them being over confident, seriously who's scared of a Caterpie. Then they got tied up)

Yeah, true, I guess that works.

Now look at the Gym Leaders Strategies. They're pretty straight forward. Use basic attacks and a few unique advanced signature attacks. They're supposed to test the trainers not defeat them. If they win the battle they qualify as good trainer in the leaders eyes. The Gym Leader isn't actively searching for a win, but they aren't going to just hand out badges either. It's the same reason why Max lost his battle at Roxanne's school. You have to think outside the box to win against good trainers, not just follow the rulebook.

Err... Couldn't they at LEAST do it at (or near) their full potential? I mean, it wouldn't really be a good fight if they just lowered their full potential. I mean, in the Majin Buu Saga, for example, Vegeta (after being sent by King Yenma to deal with Buu), when he encountered Goku, he was upset that Goku held back his full power (his Majin-self and Goku fought each other and seemed to be at equal level, and he wasn't even using his SSJ3 form.), because he felt he was cheated out of a good match. And anyways, at the public school system (even in things such as PE), the teachers don't lower their potential and skill at a subject just to give the kids a chance at acing the class, so this explaination doesn't really make any sense to me.

As for Surge, his battle technique was strike with out mercy, but he did teach a lesson in carefully examining a pokemon's abilities before evolving them. Sabrina is a special case. She had severe psychological trauma when we first met her. Her battling skills were unbeatable due to the psychic link with her pokemon (instant information from both her and kadabra and both probably thought their commands to each other). The Sinnoh Leaders? Well, I admit Ash has lost a few times, but it is canon that Roark, Gardenia, and Maylene are relatively new to being Gym Leaders (Roark and Gardenia aren't new trainers however and have been training most of their lives, so they have to be stronger than Ash) so they may be the example of a gym leaders true strength.

For Surge, I think it was more Ash and co. who taught Surge that tidbit. (and technically, it was Brock and Pikachu who taught Ash that, not Surge.)

That was my point with Sabrina.

And also, even IF they did train for most of their lives, I don't think that Roark would have beaten Pikachu that easily (I mean, it fought and defeated a Regice owned by one of the most powerful trainers, So I don't really see how it can lose to roark that easily.). I don't think that Pikachu was even used against Gardenia in neither the Eterna Forest encounter nor the "rematch" at the Gym.

After this, I think we should end the debate here, since I don't wish to argue.

 

[sirboulevard]

Agreed. No more debate.

BTW, does anyone have a link to that site with the DP 94 rumors?

 

[weedle_mchairybug]

Sure I'll get the link for it.

https://www.pokemon-age.net/iron/index.php

This is the site responsible for the rumors.

And anyways, here are the following things listed for the special back-to-back airing on the 25th:

Misty's return, Aaron, and Celestic Contest (there may be more, but that's all I could find at the moment.)

It definitely isn't Celestic town, since we aren't due to go to Celestic town for another five episodes (according to TV.com), for Aaron, while it is likely that he would be appearing, I don't think it's dedicated to him (I don't think Lucian got a back-to-back, and Cynthia's appearance DEFINITELY didn't have a Back-to back with it either.). The only explaination for it is Misty's return. (Then again, they could do something similar to how they gave starly and bonsly evolution episodes a back to back episode, but...)