5th Gen The Starter Discussion Thread

[Ho-Oh]

Does any one find it weird that Jarooda is the biggest starter by over a meter? Jarooda is 3.3 m and the second biggest starter is Torterra at 2.2 i think. It looks so weird placed next to some of the other starters. And next to the trainer because it is so overly massive! https://veekun.com/dex/gadgets/compare_pokemon?pokemon=Enbuoo&pokemon=Jarooda&pokemon=Swampert&pokemon=daikenki&pokemon=Empoleon&pokemon=Infernape&pokemon=Torterra&pokemon=Blastoise
Looks at the size difference. But also the Isshu starters are the weakest so far... Other than Torterra which is the weakest starter and Meganium who only have a base total of 525. The Isshu starters have a base total of 528 each which places them at the weakest set of starters so far. :(

Weakest, really?
...I'm not one that cares for base stats, rather movepools and high levels.

I dunno, I think with the right movesets, they can prove to be stronger than the other starters (even if base stats are against them).

 

[Livewire]

Does any one find it weird that Jarooda is the biggest starter by over a meter? Jarooda is 3.3 m and the second biggest starter is Torterra at 2.2 i think. It looks so weird placed next to some of the other starters. And next to the trainer because it is so overly massive! https://veekun.com/dex/gadgets/comp...=Infernape&pokemon=Torterra&pokemon=Blastoise
Looks at the size difference. But also the Isshu starters are the weakest so far... Other than Torterra which is the weakest starter and Meganium who only have a base total of 525. The Isshu starters have a base total of 528 each which places them at the weakest set of starters so far. :(

3 Stat points is really not important in determining strength. It's too small a number to have any Impact. Now, if the difference in BST was 15, 20, 25, then it would matter.

I can train an Adamant, well IV'd Embuoo, and if used properly, it can annihalate any other starter, regardless of its or thier BST. Same goes with Venusaur, Charizard, Blastoise, Meganium, Typhlosion, Feraligatr, Sceptile, Blaziken, Swampert, Torterra, Infernape, Empoleon, Jaroda and Daikenki. All that matters is that they're in capable hands, battle wise.

"The wand doesn't make the wizard."

 

[SuperiorCat]

I chose my little fire pig.
Pokaabbuu <333

Tbh, I like It's evolutions. I don't think they deserve the amount of hate they're getting. I think if Emboar came before Blaziken and Infernape there wouldn't be so much controversy about It's typing.

I really don't have a problem with any of this generations starters or their evolutions. :3​

 

[fenyx4]

I chose my little fire pig.
Pokaabbuu <333

Tbh, I like It's evolutions. I don't think they deserve the amount of hate they're getting. [S-HIGHLIGHT]I think if Emboar came before Blaziken and Infernape there wouldn't be so much controversy about It's typing.
[/S-HIGHLIGHT]
I really don't have a problem with any of this generations starters or their evolutions. :3​

Except that Blaziken or Infernape would be receiving the current amount of hate instead, since they would be in Enbuoo's place. With Infernape it bothered me because it was obvious repetition of a once-unique type combo. In that case, I plan on starting with Turtwig in Platinum. Having the combo used the third time in a row nearly infuriated me, because it comes off as lack of diversity/creativity.
However, since Gen V is being labeled as a "Pokemon rebirth," I'm letting it slide. Plus, I don't want to break my trend of picking the Fire starter a second time, so I'm just going with Pokabu this time around. And finally, Enbuoo ends up looking rather cool once you get used to it, and the Fighting-type plays a part in resisting Rock-type moves, thus artificially boosting his usage as a tank.

I really hope Gen VI gives us either a pure Fire-type starter or one that's dual-typed. Four times in a row would be simply inexcusable. I'm all for the Fire/Fighting combo when implemented properly, but just give us a break in between such starters so we don't feel like were using last gen's starter to begin what is supposed to be a new experience... Nevertheless, Blaziken, Infernape, and Enbuoo/Pignition/Emboar all rock! :D

 

[Weavile05]

I don't hate Pokabuu because of this (in fact, this probably makes me like it more in a way), but why does it evolve to be part FIGHTING?! It just doesn't make sense for a pig to be a fighting type. I would think that a pig would be Ground type, wouldn't you? I'm not mad at this, like I said before, but c'mon, it just doesn't make sense to me.

 

[King Gumball]

3 Stat points is really not important in determining strength. It's too small a number to have any Impact. Now, if the difference in BST was 15, 20, 25, then it would matter.

I can train an Adamant, well IV'd Embuoo, and if used properly, it can annihalate any other starter, regardless of its or thier BST. Same goes with Venusaur, Charizard, Blastoise, Meganium, Typhlosion, Feraligatr, Sceptile, Blaziken, Swampert, Torterra, Infernape, Empoleon, Jaroda and Daikenki. All that matters is that they're in capable hands, battle wise.

"The wand doesn't make the wizard."

Yeah it makes no difference, having the BSt like 3 points weaker, but I just found it interesting and sad that they were the weakest, when they 'look' like the strongest. Jarooda being by far the largest starter, Enbuoo being so large and sturdy looking, and the water one for looking just so powerful and agressive with its huge horn.

 

[fenyx4]

I don't hate Pokabuu because of this (in fact, this probably makes me like it more in a way), but why does it evolve to be part FIGHTING?! It just doesn't make sense for a pig to be a fighting type. I would think that a pig would be Ground type, wouldn't you? I'm not mad at this, like I said before, but c'mon, it just doesn't make sense to me.

I thought it would end up being Fire/Dark due to the coloration, which is sort of similar to Houndour's/Houndoom's... Furthermore, I thought Pokabu would stay quadrupedal throughout all 3 stages, diminishing the chances for a Fire/Fighting-type at the last stage. Apparently, Pokabu's hind legs got really strong in one evolution! But yeah, I don't know any bipedal pigs in real life - only in the Pokemon universe. The odd thing is, only 1 pig out of 5 stays true to form as a quadruped. 3 are bipedal, and 1 is...sort of unipedal (Spoink).

Anyway, a Fighting-type still doesn't make that much sense for a pig (though quadrupeds can still turn out to be "Fighters," as demonstrated by Ivysaur in Super Smash Bros. Brawl.) Only the Sun Wukong/Monkey King legend seems to sufficiently justify the typing with a strong case, IMO.

 

[Jerme]

I thought it would end up being Fire/Dark due to the coloration, which is sort of similar to Houndour's/Houndoom's... Furthermore, I thought Pokabu would stay quadrupedal throughout all 3 stages, diminishing the chances for a Fire/Fighting-type at the last stage. Apparently, Pokabu's hind legs got really strong in one evolution! But yeah, I don't know any bipedal pigs in real life - only in the Pokemon universe. The odd thing is, only 1 pig out of 5 stays true to form as a quadruped. 3 are bipedal, and 1 is...sort of unipedal (Spoink).

Anyway, a Fighting-type still doesn't make that much sense for a pig (though quadrupeds can still turn out to be "Fighters," as demonstrated by Ivysaur in Super Smash Bros. Brawl.) Only the Sun Wukong/Monkey King legend seems to sufficiently justify the typing with a strong case, IMO.

and please don't tell me you were one of the guys that thought zekrom would be dark/dragon, and reshiram being dragon/LIGHT type because of its coloration..

and i thought it would be fire/ground, we know pigs play in mud.

BUT A SUMO??? wtf

 

[fenyx4]

and please don't tell me you were one of the guys that thought zekrom would be dark/dragon, and reshiram being dragon/LIGHT type because of its coloration..

and i thought it would be fire/ground, we know pigs play in mud.

BUT A SUMO??? wtf

Well, it's kind of one of the most commonly associated analogies, and it made sense: white/dark; good/evil... But of course, color does not define morality alignment. Plus, I was pushing for the introduction of the Light-type, and Reshiram was the best shot of that happening due to its majestic, white-laced appearance... :)
As a result, I kind of figured Zekrom would be Dragon/Dark to tie in with Reshiram (and the games associate the Dark-type with black anyway, with (as of Gen IV) 14 of 22 of 'black' Pokemon being Dark or Ghost-type, so blame them for the color-defining-behavior thing!)
Dragon/Fire and Dragon/Electric came out of nowhere (moreso for Reshiram since I didn't notice its TURBINE TAIL resembled a large Japanese festival torch. Zekrom was sort of more obvious, since drills are electrical).

In retrospect, pigs are associated with mud, so Fire/Ground would make sense... Except the 4x weakness to Water is not appealing at all. At first, I wanted Enbuoo to learn Earthquake (partially to reference this idea), but it looks like I'm going to have to make room for Hammer Arm, Head Smash, and Wild Bolt to complement the Reckless ability...

 

[King Gumball]

Except that Enbuoo looks nothing like a ground type no matter how mouch sense it makes :L It would have been so cool it it were fire/ground though. Although it would die by the weakest of water types (yes luvdisc I am looking at you.)

I too thought that Enbuoo would have been dark/fire. It would have been so unique i that were the case. But I am not too bothered that it is fighting instead.

*random* Anyway, anyone want to wide on Jarooda's back :D It would be like riding a Medusa, how awesome! *random*

 

[Ricochet Orange]

Mijumauru. Because the water stater is usually better than the other two starters if it can learn Ice Beam/Ice Punch. Pokabu's second and third evo's make me frown. And I don't care for the lizards second and third evos. Though I'm probably going to take my starter and stick it in a box when I get another Pokemon and use that instead simply because I don't really like Mijumaru's third evo, and I would rather wait until I can get an Everstone.

 

[fenyx4]

Except that Enbuoo looks nothing like a ground type no matter how mouch sense it makes :L It would have been so cool it it were fire/ground though.[S-HIGHLIGHT] Although it would die by the weakest of water types (yes luvdisc I am looking at you.)[/S-HIGHLIGHT]

I too thought that Enbuoo would have been dark/fire. It would have been so unique i that were the case. But I am not too bothered that it is fighting instead.

*random* Anyway, anyone want to wide on Jarooda's back :D It would be like riding a Medusa, how awesome! *random*

Oh gosh...that would have been quite the embarrassment/a nightmare for Enbuoo... *shudders, pities Camerupt* At least Fire (particularly Fire/Fighting) starters are typically known to dish out massive damage...

 

[King Gumball]

Oh gosh...that would have been quite the embarrassment/a nightmare for Enbuoo... *shudders, pities Camerupt* At least Fire (particularly Fire/Fighting) starters are typically known to dish out massive damage...

It would be embarrassing. Although in the Anime in the gym battle against wallace his Luvdisc was pretty ownage.

I think that if Enbuoo was a Ground/fire it would have the most massive amount of attack, following in Rypheriors footsteps.

 

[Devil Flamingo]

Exactly, that's why Emboar is Fire/Fighting. You could argue Fire/Dark makes sense, but they aren't going to make a starter part Psychic or Dark or Ghost, because they would be too cool and edgy for GF's rather conservative ways.

And the only other typing that would have made sense would be Fire/Ground, which would have made Emboar vulnerable to Jaroda (since he'd be neutral to Grass, and Jaroda's Contrarian/Perversity would mean her Leaf Storm could easily take him down if played wisely) and he'd be super-weak to Daikenki... and every other Water type, pretty much. Such typing would truly ensure he never sees the light of the standard metagame, and maybe not even the UU game, because who wants a thing with uber-weak to Water in their team? :>

tl;dr Love it or hate it, Fire/Fighting is best for Emboar. You can't always get what you want; sometimes you have to choose what's best for you.

 

[Blastin'Tyruntz]

Mijumaru is My favorite cause to me he resembles Piplup.
Which I love Piplup.
So yeah I am picking Mijumaru cause He's Awesome.

and still...you have tsutaja which,btw im picked
its now a lvl 56 jaroda

originally posted by ricohet orange: And I don't care for the lizards second and third evos. Though I'm probably going to take my starter and stick it in a box when I get another Pokemon and use that instead simply because I don't really like Mijumaru's third evo, and I would rather wait until I can get an Everstone.

i know right?!
its not mtching the pre-evos

 

[Livewire]

Exactly, that's why Emboar is Fire/Fighting. You could argue Fire/Dark makes sense, but they aren't going to make a starter part Psychic or Dark or Ghost, because they would be too cool and edgy for GF's rather conservative ways.

And the only other typing that would have made sense would be Fire/Ground, which would have made Emboar vulnerable to Jaroda (since he'd be neutral to Grass, and Jaroda's Contrarian/Perversity would mean her Leaf Storm could easily take him down if played wisely) and he'd be super-weak to Daikenki... and every other Water type, pretty much. Such typing would truly ensure he never sees the light of the standard metagame, and maybe not even the UU game, because who wants a thing with uber-weak to Water in their team? :>

tl;dr Love it or hate it, Fire/Fighting is best for Emboar. You can't always get what you want; sometimes you have to choose what's best for you.

Fire/fighting is a blessing for Emboar, it really is. Like you said, any other type and it would literally be doomed in terms of Competitive play.

 

[TheGoddessOfDiscord]

Pokabu. I ALWAYS choose the quadrupedal one.
I'd love to choose Tsutaaja (Grass is my favourite type) but combination of high Speed and Defenses isn't what I like...

 

[Ho-Oh]

Exactly, that's why Emboar is Fire/Fighting. You could argue Fire/Dark makes sense, but they aren't going to make a starter part Psychic or Dark or Ghost, because they would be too cool and edgy for GF's rather conservative ways.

And the only other typing that would have made sense would be Fire/Ground, which would have made Emboar vulnerable to Jaroda (since he'd be neutral to Grass, and Jaroda's Contrarian/Perversity would mean her Leaf Storm could easily take him down if played wisely) and he'd be super-weak to Daikenki... and every other Water type, pretty much. Such typing would truly ensure he never sees the light of the standard metagame, and maybe not even the UU game, because who wants a thing with uber-weak to Water in their team? :>

tl;dr Love it or hate it, Fire/Fighting is best for Emboar. You can't always get what you want; sometimes you have to choose what's best for you.

Does that mean future starter patterns will be fire/fighting, then? Though dark really would be amazing. Even still, they could have left it at just fire, though, since that has no flaws - as in, likely to be defeated by.

 

[Sammuthegreat]

Does that mean future starter patterns will be fire/fighting, then? Though dark really would be amazing. Even still, they could have left it at just fire, though, since that has no flaws - as in, likely to be defeated by.

I think the idea is that the Fire starter is being given a chance by being given a second type that neutralises its weakness to Rock - or Stealth Rock, specifically. Otherwise no Fire-type starter would be competitive (poor Charizard :().

What this probably means is that in future generations, or until Stealth Rock is removed/down-graded in power, the Fire starters will either be Fire/Fighting or Fire/Steel. Ground is the only other type that would neutralise Fire's Rock weakness, but as mentioned above, a 4x weakness to Water really would be unfair.

Personally I think that Stealth Rock should be downgraded rather than ruining future generations' Fire starters by making them all the same type (let's face it, even though Emboar is cool, he's not as cool as he would have been if he were Fire/Dark or something similar). I doubt the majority of players would mind if future Fire starters were pure Fire, or retained their 2x weakness to Stealth Rock by having a secondary type that takes neutral Rock damage. I certainly wouldn't, and we could still get some awesome new type combinations that way. Imagine one of these as your starter's final typing...

Fire/Poison
Fire/Water
Fire/Normal
Fire/Ghost
Fire/Grass
Fire/Electric
Fire/Psychic
Fire/Dragon
Fire/Dark

All the above would be 2x weak to Stealth Rock and therefore wouldn't render the starter COMPLETELY uncompetitive, and lots of them (especially Fire/Poison and Fire/Electric in my view) are really awesome.

 

[Livewire]

I think the idea is that the Fire starter is being given a chance by being given a second type that neutralises its weakness to Rock - or Stealth Rock, specifically. Otherwise no Fire-type starter would be competitive (poor Charizard :().

What this probably means is that in future generations, or until Stealth Rock is removed/down-graded in power, the Fire starters will either be Fire/Fighting or Fire/Steel. Ground is the only other type that would neutralise Fire's Rock weakness, but as mentioned above, a 4x weakness to Water really would be unfair.

Personally I think that Stealth Rock should be downgraded rather than ruining future generations' Fire starters by making them all the same type (let's face it, even though Emboar is cool, he's not as cool as he would have been if he were Fire/Dark or something similar). I doubt the majority of players would mind if future Fire starters were pure Fire, or retained their 2x weakness to Stealth Rock by having a secondary type that takes neutral Rock damage. I certainly wouldn't, and we could still get some awesome new type combinations that way. Imagine one of these as your starter's final typing...

Fire/Poison
Fire/Water
Fire/Normal
Fire/Ghost
Fire/Grass
Fire/Electric
Fire/Psychic
Fire/Dragon
Fire/Dark

All the above would be 2x weak to Stealth Rock and therefore wouldn't render the starter COMPLETELY uncompetitive, and lots of them (especially Fire/Poison and Fire/Electric in my view) are really awesome.

Based on that, I think there needs to be a Stealth Rock check, other than through rapid spin. :/ It's a tad broken.

Fire/Fighting is basically, the only type combo Embuoo could have, without totally sucking in the competitive metagame. Un-original? Maybe, but It could be sooo much worse. At least it can survive a tad longer when it switches in.

Oh god Fire/Electric would rock. And it makes sense, as they're symbiotic.