5th Gen TMs & HMs Discussion

[Ninja Caterpie]

Also, those who say Bullet Seed sucks...well, consider the place that you get it in-game. In RSE, it was really well placed. The only grass move you have at that point is Absorb, which generally sucks more than Bullet Seed. :| In DPPt, it sucked because the grass-types you can find have better moves, but in RSE...it was good.

 

[*Minun*]

Haha... I find it funny how Japan is pretty much the most technically advanced place in the world and then when gamefreak sets the game in New York TMs are improved amazingly.

Also, this will probably take the number of TMs up to 100 or more. That would be cool.

And even if they made TMs harder to get or more expensive it would be pointless in the end because you could just make your Gen 4 pokemon hold all the hard to get TMs and send them over after the main storyline. Unless they didn't allow that.

 

[King Gumball]

With tMs not running out training pokemon how I want them to be will be much easier. Much, much better addition to this new gen. I love it!

 

[Ho-Oh]

Since Tm's are "movable" items they kinda have to keep every single TM we've had before so there WILL be 90+ TM's. Every non key item from the 3rd & 4th gen onwards has to be in forth generation (even the useless ones).

Yeaaah but I'm thinking that maybe some TMs could just become moves, it... would make it easier to remember the amount of TMs tbh. :( Either way just wishful thinking probably.

 

[Sammuthegreat]

Ok... I'm gonna go ahead and quote bits of what you said, and then quote the bits of my previous post that you clearly did not read.

From you:

GUys,No matter how"Obvious" your"Logic " or "Ideas" are, it wont happen.

There are somethings that Game Freak has stuck by over the Years,Gyms,TMs,HMs, and an evil team to name a few.

We all EXPECT those things because every Generation has had them.Its no turning back on the roots for which the basis was brought upon.

From me:

In no way am I expecting that this will be implemented in Black and White

From you:

Now Get this Logic. THe Point of Having HMs is not for the moveset, but because it KEEPS you from advancing to the parts of the story you arent supposed to.Thats why you can obtain Cut but cant chop a tree yet but use it in battle.Remember in GSC how you could get Whirlpool but couldnt use it because you didnt have Jasmine's badge ?Or yo u obtained Surf from the Kimono girls but didnt have Morty's Badge?IT is for those reasons that you couldnt reach those areas.

From me:

And to stay in line with the current system whereby you can't use HMs outside of battle until you earn the relevant badge, the following could be implemented:

You can't perform Cut outside battle until you earn a licence showing that you are competent enough to perform the dangerous operation of cutting down trees - this licence is achieved by earning the first badge.

You can't perform Surf outside battle until you earn a licence showing that you are competent enough to perform the dangerous operation of traversing long stretches of water unaccompanied - this licence is achieved by earning a later badge, etc. etc.

So in fact, I had thought of everything you claimed that I had not. Maybe read through my obvious ideas and logic before putting them in quotation marks and ridiculing them.

 

[Weavile05]

I would atleast like forgettable HMs, so that if you went into some deep forest, got to the exit, needed cut to get through, and the only pokemon in your party that could use it was your best pokemon (you know, something you don't want to teach cut to) and you don't have to waste your time going to a move deleter and you can just replace it with either a TM or the next move your pokemon learns. Either that or a move deleter item.

 

[Itstoppedatumbreon]

wats the point in HMs then if threy do the same as a TM?

 

[Dominus Temporis]

wats the point in HMs then if threy do the same as a TM?

You... have played the games, yes? Field moves? That's what makes them unique, the ability to get around obstacles.

And I dislike the idea of a complete TM overhaul. It's also not possible, because it's been confirmed (has it?) that we can transfer Pokemon from DPPt/HGSS to this. Thus, we must keep the TMs, or we'd get a billion illegal move combos, like Breloom with Thunderpunch + Poison Heal from DPPt era.

Yeah, it's been confirmed. Besides, not only is your point correct, but we also have to consider that, y'know, with the whole "transferring-Pokemon" minigame like in Gen IV, the TM list needs to be the same since we can transfer items with Pokemon as well. I'd predict... oh, another fifty or so TMs at least? We got around forty additional from the third-to-fourth generation switch.

 

[Karel_Kazuki]

Ok... I'm gonna go ahead and quote bits of what you said, and then quote the bits of my previous post that you clearly did not read.

From you:



From me:



From you:



From me:



So in fact, I had thought of everything you claimed that I had not. Maybe read through my obvious ideas and logic before putting them in quotation marks and ridiculing them.

Dude, what you are saying is what Game Freak Has done.

THe License you are talking about?The badges.
Note that after every Gym battle they say, the badges now allows you to use(HM) now.That is already implemented.The license design you speak of would just take up Kilobytes for what could be used for something else.


So what you are talking about needing a license for is already done and therefore null.Understand what you say and look at what has been done already.

 

[pkmn.master]

Looks like someone actually created a CD player that won't break the CDs...
I like the idea as a competetive battler. When I try to make additions to my team, I find that I use TMs like Earthquake many times. Writing a cheak for 80 battle points is terrible. Getting those is time consuming. A limit to TMs isn't a great idea. There are hundreds of new TMs and people can just trade their Pokemon from HG/SS holding other TMs. I wonder if you'll be able to sell them?

 

[Gardenia101]

Looks like someone actually created a CD player that won't break the CDs...
I like the idea as a competetive battler. When I try to make additions to my team, I find that I use TMs like Earthquake many times. Writing a cheak for 80 battle points is terrible. Getting those is time consuming. A limit to TMs isn't a great idea. There are hundreds of new TMs and people can just trade their Pokemon from HG/SS holding other TMs. I wonder if you'll be able to sell them?

Well, if you could it would be worth alot of money

That or you wouldn't be able to at all.

Although some of the better, rarer ones could be impossible to sell but the useless ones would be sellable (Like the Moonstones in the Earlier games)

 

[MistahDude]

They might just make it harder to get TMs

 

[Blueknight]

Now I can re-use those pesky TM's that only come once. (Drain Punch, Charge Beam) or those that cost BP/coins. (Ice Beam, Earthquake) Uuugh I hated those.

They may just add another 50 new TM's or something. Because that's so many, they don't want to add so ways to recollect them all.

 

[ArkansasRazorback]

I hate the itemfinder...they better not make it to where you have to use it more

 

[Karel_Kazuki]

I just noticed that 92 plus 8 Hms =100, so They could add either an extra 50 or Change around the ones already made.

 

[Cyberglass]

But who says they're going to use already existing TMs? I would imagine since they're starting fresh, that they would just add a new bunch of TMs that we've never seen before...but then again I doubt this would happen, this would be like, a complete renovation from it's predecessors.

They have to use the already existing TMs, since we can transfer Pokemon, and therefore items, from Gen. 4. It wouldn't make sense to have the TM change its attack when it transfers over.

 

[dragon0fangz]

Make every move a TM. No, that would be crazy. but just imagine. also, have more tms available really early, like Return was in Platinum. So i dont have to deal with Scratch for the next 10 levels or so.
Also, I highly doubt you can transfer items over. You couldn't in Pal Park. (to my knowledge)

 

[Sammuthegreat]

Dude, what you are saying is what Game Freak Has done.

THe License you are talking about?The badges.
Note that after every Gym battle they say, the badges now allows you to use(HM) now.That is already implemented.The license design you speak of would just take up Kilobytes for what could be used for something else.


So what you are talking about needing a license for is already done and therefore null.Understand what you say and look at what has been done already.

*FACEPALM FACEPALM FACEPALM*

No. You're not listening to me. You still clearly haven't read my whole original post. I have actually played every generation of Pokemon games, and therefore am completely aware that the Badges do what I have suggested the licences could.

My licences suggestion was a way of keeping the current system, whereby badges allow HM moves to be used outside of battle - as I stated in this part of the post:

And to stay in line with the current system whereby you can't use HMs outside of battle until you earn the relevant badge, the following could be implemented:

... but giving a sensible, slightly more believable explanation for why you'd have to wait a certain while to perform such moves outside of battle.

Again if you'd read my post, you'd know that I only suggested "Licences" because it makes no sense for a Pokemon that could innately swim, for example, to suddenly be able to swim after earning a badge. A Seaking doesn't suddenly learn how to swim when it beats an arbitrary Gym. That's why I suggested licences - your Seaking could swim all along, but you as a trainer are only allowed to ride the Seaking when you've proven yourself to be a strong enough trainer to handle the responsibility of undertaking dangerous sea voyages unaccompanied - that is, by earning a licence proving your competence. The mechanics would remain exactly the same - i.e. to use an out-of-battle move, you have to beat a Gym - and you can call them licences or badges, it really doesn't matter because they perform the exact same function either way. At least my explanation makes sense though, unlike the current one - you shouldn't need to teach a fish how to swim, or to teach a dragon how to use its claws to cut down a tree, or to teach a big strong Pokemon like Machamp how to apply its power to move a stone. Therefore HMs make no sense and should be abolished in favour of innate out-of-battle abilities.

There really would be no major upheaval to the game mechanics; my idea would simply remove an unnecessary inconvenience. And how much better would it be to ride an Arcanine or a Suicune across the land than a bike... How much better would it be to actually be towed behind your favourite Squirtle instead of sitting on a random Wailmer sprite when you surf... And most importantly, how much better would it be if your Charmeleon could Cut down a tree using the claws it was born with instead of having to waste a valuable move slot with a useless move!?

Also, I highly doubt you can transfer items over. You couldn't in Pal Park. (to my knowledge)

You could, which was fortunate, because it meant I got a whole load of Psychic/Thunderbolt/Ice Beam/Flamethrower TMs onto my Diamond game for free...

 

[Gymnotide]

*FACEPALM FACEPALM FACEPALM*

No. You're not listening to me. You still clearly haven't read my whole original post. I have actually played every generation of Pokemon games, and therefore am completely aware that the Badges do what I have suggested the licences could.

My licences suggestion was a way of keeping the current system, whereby badges allow HM moves to be used outside of battle - as I stated in this part of the post:



... but giving a sensible, slightly more believable explanation for why you'd have to wait a certain while to perform such moves outside of battle.

Again if you'd read my post, you'd know that I only suggested "Licences" because it makes no sense for a Pokemon that could innately swim, for example, to suddenly be able to swim after earning a badge. A Seaking doesn't suddenly learn how to swim when it beats an arbitrary Gym. That's why I suggested licences - your Seaking could swim all along, but you as a trainer are only allowed to ride the Seaking when you've proven yourself to be a strong enough trainer to handle the responsibility of undertaking dangerous sea voyages unaccompanied - that is, by earning a licence proving your competence. The mechanics would remain exactly the same - i.e. to use an out-of-battle move, you have to beat a Gym - and you can call them licences or badges, it really doesn't matter because they perform the exact same function either way. At least my explanation makes sense though, unlike the current one - you shouldn't need to teach a fish how to swim, or to teach a dragon how to use its claws to cut down a tree, or to teach a big strong Pokemon like Machamp how to apply its power to move a stone. Therefore HMs make no sense and should be abolished in favour of innate out-of-battle abilities.

There really would be no major upheaval to the game mechanics; my idea would simply remove an unnecessary inconvenience. And how much better would it be to ride an Arcanine or a Suicune across the land than a bike... How much better would it be to actually be towed behind your favourite Squirtle instead of sitting on a random Wailmer sprite when you surf... And most importantly, how much better would it be if your Charmeleon could Cut down a tree using the claws it was born with instead of having to waste a valuable move slot with a useless move!?



You could, which was fortunate, because it meant I got a whole load of Psychic/Thunderbolt/Ice Beam/Flamethrower TMs onto my Diamond game for free...

tl;dr -- Badges are licenses. You try to use Scyther's sharp blades to cut down a shrub that blocks your path. A police officer comes along and asks you for your license. You show them your badge. That's how it's supposed to work in the games.

 

[big NATE alpha]

every gen has a TM overhaul....


Anyway, I can sense them making us do a Wi-Fi mission for Eartquake or Giga Impact, I really hope they sell Giga Impact though

Actually... no. They just added TMs in Gen IV, the first 50 were the same as R/S/E/FR/LG.

I want a TM for Signal Beam. It's a Bug move that's actually GOOD for a change...