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Touhoumon: Another World Remix

Another World is getting revamped? This is going to be sweet. Probably because this was the first Touhoumon game I've played, but Another World is my favorite.

I'm not going to play it right now since I'm a bit burned out on Touhoumon at the moment, but for the final version do you plan on keeping 1.5's evolution format (Chibi -> Normal -> EX) or changing to 1.8's? I was just thinking that 1.8's would allow more variety since so few Boneka can reach Last Word (and being able to trade freely with Aichiya's World Link 1.8 would be nice, too).

I wouldn't mind Zero forms being in. Keeping them as enemy-only and reducing their stats a bit should be fine for me.
And I have nothing against the palette AW uses. Again, the whole "I like AW" thing.

And glad to see you're still around Aichiya. It's been a while since I've seen anything of you.
 
@Aichiya - I'll give it a shot. Currently, I'm playing around with Jambo's music hack and seeing if I can even get the thing to work, which will take a bit of time but isn't really a problem. Overworld Editor isn't really playing nice, so I'll have to see what's going on there. Mine doesn't seem to want to go up to 179. Probably because it isn't reading (or can't write to) the ini for some reason.

JetAurion said:
Another World is getting revamped? This is going to be sweet. Probably because this was the first Touhoumon game I've played, but Another World is my favorite.

I'm not going to play it right now since I'm a bit burned out on Touhoumon at the moment, but for the final version do you plan on keeping 1.5's evolution format (Chibi -> Normal -> EX) or changing to 1.8's? I was just thinking that 1.8's would allow more variety since so few Boneka can reach Last Word (and being able to trade freely with Aichiya's World Link 1.8 would be nice, too).

I wouldn't mind Zero forms being in. Keeping them as enemy-only and reducing their stats a bit should be fine for me.
And I have nothing against the palette AW uses. Again, the whole "I like AW" thing.

And glad to see you're still around Aichiya. It's been a while since I've seen anything of you.
Click to expand...
As it stands, it'll follow the 1.5 evolution conventions. The reason for this is because, all in all, I don't want this to be "1.8, but not", and at the same time, I don't want it to fall behind 1.8 as far as features are concerned.

As for Zeros, I'm going to have Last Words fill their space. They won't have the same stats as Zeros, but they will serve a similar purpose. I haven't gotten too far into the planning for this, yet, but essentially, Boneka will no longer evolve into LWs (or at least, Last Tags won't be given to the player) and the LWs will stand as bosses or boss-level enemies- nothing too unbeatable but similarly nothing you want to take lightly. Used wisely, I think they can be a great tool in creating a challenge that's difficult but fair.

Will they be obtainable? Possibly, but probably not during the main game (if anything, they'd probably replace some legendaries). If Zeros were going to appear at all, they'd probably be at that point- still unobtainable for the player, though. At no point do I want the player to get a Boneka that basically renders the rest of their party useless, and at the same time I don't want the player to have to EV grind so that they can punch uber BST boneka.

And as far as World Link is concerned...it probably will still be compatible with it, though I can't guarantee that an Alice caught in AW will be a 1:1 with an Alice caught in WL. The idea is that the game will be self-sustaining, not really relying on World Link or Marisa's Magic World for anything. So the compatibility is there, but it's not a focus.
 
Man, this is looking like a really good, ambitious project! I wish I could do it myself, but I don't really know how to code. You're doing god's work, man. I really like all the ideas you have for keeping the game hard, but not...stupidly grindy hard? Yeah. Especially using the Last Word Bonekas - that's a really good idea.

Uh, I just have one small nitpick - why is Destroy only at 1%? Wouldn't it make sense to make it like a regular OHKO move, with 30% accuracy and 5 PP? As it is, it just kinda bothers me.

But other than that, I really like what you're doing, and hope you succeed!
 
Griever1337 said:
Man, this is looking like a really good, ambitious project! I wish I could do it myself, but I don't really know how to code. You're doing god's work, man. I really like all the ideas you have for keeping the game hard, but not...stupidly grindy hard? Yeah. Especially using the Last Word Bonekas - that's a really good idea.

Uh, I just have one small nitpick - why is Destroy only at 1%? Wouldn't it make sense to make it like a regular OHKO move, with 30% accuracy and 5 PP? As it is, it just kinda bothers me.

But other than that, I really like what you're doing, and hope you succeed!
Click to expand...
Thanks!

As for Destroy, the reason I changed it to 1% is because there are still other OHKO moves in the game and because Destroy has the unique ability to be used while one is asleep. For now, the nerf is half novelty, as its actual function really depends more on the Boneka that can learn it (specifically, ones that know 1-turn guaranteed 100% accuracy moves). I do want to do something with it (heck, right now I'm thinking it'd make a perfect signature for Yukari if I could balance it), but as it stands it's just a nerf that does the game more good than harm. What to do with it will come later, hopefully.
 
GBARomsHackPlayer said:
You killed the difficulty of the game when i saw it :o
Click to expand...

I would hope Zero Boneka weren't the only difficult thing about the game, but either way, the idea of this is to make the difficulty more balanced but still difficult.

And what are Out-of-Dex Bonekas so ?
Click to expand...
I...don't think I understand what you're saying here.
 
I mean, you removed Zero, but are they replaced ?

I was shocked by the Readme File :o :o :o



EDIT : I'm Pretty sure it's a good game. But I know i will not like it : For me, AW is based on his difficulty and the music.
Moreover, I've Crushed Insane, Extra, Marry Version. I am working on Lunatic-Sazanka... For me, a Touhoumon must have difficulty.

CSanae was changed i can accept it. But CSanae becomes the best starter when she can learn Mirror Coat (Easy Way to win xDD)
How about Destroy ? I mean, We don't see it before the near end with Watatsuki Sisters :/ So that's not necessary to modify it...

Overall I wanted to share my feeling about this game. I don't like the idea to make the game more easier :/ But hey, I'm pretty sure you've done something great :)
 
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GBARomsHackPlayer said:
Moreover, I've Crushed Insane, Extra, Marry Version. I am working on Lunatic-Sazanka... For me, a Touhoumon must have difficulty.

CSanae was changed i can accept it. But CSanae becomes the best starter when she can learn Mirror Coat (Easy Way to win xDD)
How about Destroy ? I mean, We don't see it before the near end with Watatsuki Sisters :/

Overall I wanted to share my feeling about this game. I don't like the idea to make the game more easier :/
Click to expand...
Let me ask you a question: how many times, over the course of AW, did you black out and/or use save states?
 
Hmm a lot of time sure ^^ I can do a LeaderBoard on Finished Games ^^

1 - Insane : Dark Last Word Bonekas, the hardest thing I ever seen in Touhoumon ^^
2 - AW : Zero Reimu Lv28 - ZSuwako Lv88 was the main obstacles of the game.
3 - Puppet Play Enhanced : I will never understand 1.8 types xDD
4 - Extra : Hard and Sadic test : Only Full Restore can be used :o
5 - Marisa Magic World : Extra Battles was Insane : No Ho-oH unlike AW or WL . Only Lw. And Full Z on double battle is N'SANE.
6 - Merry Version : Adventures in Isles suprised me with the boost of trainers (50 to 80) And the League was not easy.

How many times ? I can't say that : Unable to count how many times I lost. Too much times : and that's Touhoumon :)
 
That's kind of my point, though. Clearly you like the games for I Wanna Be the Guy Difficulty, so I can see why you want them to be this, but I really like a metaphor I heard once. Playing the insanely hard Touhoumon games is like hitting your head against a wall. If you keep doing it, assuming you don't die, you'll eventually get through, but it's painful and you lose a lot in the process. In a balanced game, though, even if it's difficult, you can find an efficient method to get passed the wall. Developing that method is fun, if not engaging, and actually getting past the wall with that method is really satisfying.

Fighting the same trainer over and over again until they finally lose because you kept gaining EXP and leveling up after every defeat...where's the challenge in that? Sure, the opponent is strong, but that doesn't make them difficult. After all, you can easily follow the simple strategy of blacking out until you're levels above them and then wiping them out. In that sense, the games are really easy. I mean, you lose a lot, but if you keep doing the same thing over and over again until it works, clearly there was no challenge to begin with. Though I haven't played much, Touhoumon Emerald is one example of a Touhoumon hack that doesn't particularly agree with the idea that Touhoumon has to be unfair to be fun. It's fanbase likes that it's difficult without being unfair, and it was designed with that in mind.

Because at the end of the day, I want the challenge- and by extension, the game- to be fun, not a chore.
 
I have nothing against Roms with a normal difficulty ^^ But maybe it's because I only seen the hardests of hardests game : I earn a lot of experience after done Insane : it's the 2nd Touhoumon I had finished and this transformed "MegaSupaaxTraaHard" to only Hard Roms : That's how I am. And you're right Where is the Challenge to repeat repeat battle again and again... Don't worry about this, that's why i make Touhoumon at least twice : to have fun on great battles without press spacebar ^^
Hmph I understand what are you saying, Touhoumon have to be more accessible with a Normal difficulty :)

And I've asked, did you replaced ZForms ? I will play it after some games ^^

Yes I was born in the blood of pain :p But just I wanted to share my feeling about this idea ^^ I have nothing about the game itself, just somethings I want you to explain :
CRemilia and Bite
Destroy and 1/100
Gensokyo Leaague ?
 
Z Forms will be replaced Last Words which, in turn, won't be available to the player for the majority of the game (if at all). LW's have pretty high BST (though not as high as Zs), but they aren't broken, so they work as a good substitute and, similarly, because they won't be able to be obtained by the player (for the most part), it makes for a good bit of balancing (well, in this case it's actually intentional imbalance, which can work depending on how I use it...but that's for later).
 
But ZForms was Out-of-Dex, but Lw was repertoried. Ah, you don'y understood me :)
ZForms and Vocaloids (And Ho-oH) was the 25 extras Bonekas beetween Celebi and Torchic. Did you let these slot empty or replaced Extras Bonekas ? :)

I hope you didn't changed the music :p
 
GBARomsHackPlayer said:
But ZForms was Out-of-Dex, but Lw was repertoried. Ah, you don'y understood me :)
ZForms and Vocaloids (And Ho-oH) was the 25 extras Bonekas beetween Celebi and Torchic. Did you let these slot empty or replaced Extras Bonekas ? :)

I hope you didn't changed the music :p
Click to expand...
Oooh, no, I get you. When you said "replaced", I didn't know you were talking about replacing their data. They're still in the game, I'm just taking them off of trainers...for now.

Currently, I don't have plans to take them out, but if I do I'm only considering replacing them 2 things. One thing I might do is replace them with Ten Desires characters, since it'd give me (and the player) more choices. The second is taking some cues from 1.8 and bringing in alternate forms since it'd allow for more variety and versatility in teams. -Assuming no one brings in some suggestions on what I can do with the spaces.

As for the music, I don't plan to but I might. I won't change the songs, more than likely all I'll do is use versions of the existing songs that result in less audio clipping. More than likely, though, I'll check out the Research & Development forum to see if I can find a way to get rid of the clipping. So yeah, it's pretty unlikely that the music's getting changed.
 
Oh ? You want suggestions for the 25 free slots you have ? Hmm... How do you plan to bring Ten Desire's characters ? I mean, uh How can I say it... Ah I get it ! How many characters do you plan to bring ? 25 or less ?
 
machomuu said:
Oooh, no, I get you. When you said "replaced", I didn't know you were talking about replacing their data. They're still in the game, I'm just taking them off of trainers...for now.

Currently, I don't have plans to take them out, but if I do I'm only considering replacing them 2 things. One thing I might do is replace them with Ten Desires characters, since it'd give me (and the player) more choices. The second is taking some cues from 1.8 and bringing in alternate forms since it'd allow for more variety and versatility in teams. -Assuming no one brings in some suggestions on what I can do with the spaces.
Click to expand...

If possible, it would be great if you used some of the extended puppets Boneka from Shoddy in this. Besides including characters from up to Double Dealing Character, it has some other choices like Renko and Maribel. Doesnt's Unnamed Touhoumon included these and it was quite refreshing having entirely new choices.

If not, just adding "old" additional Puppets would be nice, like Sendai and such.
 
Hm...alright, that sounds good. Priority will go to main game characters (ie. Boneka for 13 and 14, hopefully Kokoro as well). MaRenko will come after that, as I have plans for them. Then Kasen, and finally the Magic Stones, which I think is everyone. Those are the new ones that I know of. Now, as far as the Magic Stones go, if I feel that a form may be a better pick for the spot, I'll just go with that. Though how I'll go about this will depend, since I'm still following the 1.5 framework, so rather than alternate forms they'll likely go C -> Regular -> E (or just C -> regular, depending). Probably. I could use the 1.8 evolution framework for these guys specifically, but...I dunno. Suggestions are still open, of course.

Also, this isn't really related, but regarding Layla Prismriver...her event's getting modified. I've been thinking about this for a long time, but put simply as it stands, the event is...disturbing? Depressing? What happens is that you enter a room where you see the Prismrivers' instruments on the floor, and upon inspecting them you find the "remains" of Layla. Hinting that what you're catching isn't a boneka of Layla, but Layla herself (either her spirit or her corpse). And that's...um...it comes with a lot of implications, none of them good. So yeah, it'll likely be a text change, but it's worth mentioning.
 
I'm excited to try this out.

I've never played a Touhoumon Hack but today is the day :)

Great job!
 
machomuu said:
....Though how I'll go about this will depend, since I'm still following the 1.5 framework, so rather than alternate forms they'll likely go C -> Regular -> E (or just C -> regular, depending). Probably. I could use the 1.8 evolution framework for these guys specifically, but...I dunno. Suggestions are still open, of course.
Click to expand...

I believe there are a touhoumon hack or two from the Japanese community that use 1.5 and 1.8 framework.

For example is reimufate version
Spoiler:


But one thing for sure is... the hacker him/herself that will decide....
 
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pokemon1412 said:
I believe there are a touhoumon hack or two from the Japanese community that use 1.5 and 1.8 framework.

For example is reimufate version
Spoiler:
Click to expand...
Huh, interesting...I could kinda go that route since, in Another World currently, there are some alternative forms for certain Boneka (less in the way of specializing them into specific roles and more for basing them around themes, like the Advents, Dark, etc.)...but that would require a massive restructuring since 1.8 was designed around the new evolution design while 1.5 is more Pokemon. Considering that there's so much that still needs to be done, I can't good and well say that this would be a realistic goal. Pretty much every place a Pokemon is placed in the game, in the wild or on trainers, would have to be rethought, and I'd also have to reconsider the starters.

On that note, I'm going to apologize right now and say that the every PC-98 character in this has (at least) one of their 1.5 sprites, since 1.8 only gives them two forms and...well, here they have three. And that'll really decide how I go about this. Depending on how many sprites the Touhou 13/14 characters have will determine how I'll go about making their evolutionary lines. Reimufate should be helpful in helping me determine what moves I should give these characters.
 
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