US Elections 2008: Debate the Issues

[Anti]

Sarah Palin is enough of a reason not to vote for any candidate, let alone McCain.

I know this thread is for issues, but I feel Palin IS an issue. She believes that humans coexisted with dinosaurs and that the earth is 6000 years old (if I remember that right). She wants creationism to be taught in public schools. I'm sorry, what? That's a total religious bias, something that I'm pretty sure is supposed to be a big no-no for our government. I'm Christian myself, but seriously, creationism education is the biggest joke. I'm cool with fundamentalist Christians believing what they want - we all have a right to have such opinions and beliefs. Forcing such views onto children going to public schools is incredibly narrow-minded and stupid.

She can't even go away from her talking points without self-destructing, as the interviews with Couric and other anchors showed us. Her foreign policy "experience" is actually humorous. I think it's pretty hard to argue that seeing Russia from your house is foreign policy experience. Bush could see Mexico from his house and look how respected we are around the world now. Palin also essentially lied about the selling the plane on Ebay story and a lot of what she said in that RNC speech.

She clearly lacks experience, something that McCain has SLAMMED Obama for the entire campaign. I personally don't think experience means a thing (just look at Lincoln and Washington), but if you're going to bash the opponent for lacking experience, don't pick someone with even less experience (and the little experience Palin has already has her linked to scandal). It's funny what you can learn from watching a little John Stewart, and that isn't even serious reporting, or reporting at all.

Also, I know the VP is supposed to be like "alpha attack dog 1.1 beta" or whatever, but I think the campaign just might be taking the mudslinging a little too far. First of all, both campaigns need to cut the crap and post negative advertising that's actually TRUE, especially McCain. But when I say taking it too far, I'm talking about the "Obama is a terrorist" and "kill him!" cries at the rallies that have gone ignored by the campaign. That needs to be STOPPED. Period. Also, one of Palin's more recent rally appearances couldn't help but rub off on me as though she was implying Obama is a terrorist or works with them? you can say "well she wasn't saying that," but "Obama pals around with terrorists" is enough for me. John McCain is a better man than that. He should be above all of this, and so should Obama.

That's just my opinion on the election. I just don't expect McCain to make it to age 76, and I fear a Palin presidency more than about anything. Palin being president would be worse than a third term for Bush, which is why I wouldn't vote for McCain. If Romney was McCain's VP pick, I really wouldn't press for Obama as much as I do now.

So now that my "Palin is an incompetent, narrow-minded disaster" rant is finished, I can move on to the other issues.

Economy: Don't trust either candidate to fix things. I'd probably go with Obama just because McCain seems even more clueless than Obama on the matter, though they're both pretty poor in my opinion.

Global Warming: One of the most important issues to me, I don't think either candidate has seriously addressed the topic. I actually think they both have decent plans for it though, at least better than what Bush is doing for the environment, or more like what Bush has done to the environment.

Health Care: I don't know enough about this to comment, so I won't act like I do. It isn't really of importance to me for now but I'm sure it will be, haha.

War in Iraq: I don't know what to think. I just want the least amount of troops to die as possible without giving up too much (though I'm not sure what exactly that is).

Offshore Drilling: Totally useless. It only damages surrounding habitats and wildlife and doesn't really address the energy problems we have, it just band-aids them (and the band-aid won't even come for awhile). Sorry, I just find the whole "drill baby drill" thing a political device that neither candidate seriously believes will help.

There are other issues, but I'm really not in the position to comment on them. In case you haven't figured it out, I support Obama and am the least Conservative person you'll find. That last point kind of adds fuel to my anti-Palin fire, so to speak. :P

That being said, I'm not really a huge fan of Obama. I like him, but he's not amazing or anything. I generally don't like McCain but I don't hate him or anything. Then there's Palin...my least favorite presidential candidate ever, and she beat out Andrew Jackson. If you know my views on Jackson's presidency, you know that's saying a lot.

Eh, I'm not really optimistic either way. As long as we avoid a Palin presidency, I'd consider this year's election a success (sad how low Bush has raised the bar for a successful election lol). so yeah, Palin is the deciding factor for me. I really hope people look into her and see just how bad things could turn out...

Just my view on things. I kind of wish Hillary was still around.

 

[TRIFORCE89]

Also, I know the VP is supposed to be like "alpha attack dog 1.1 beta" or whatever, but I think the campaign just might be taking the mudslinging a little too far. First of all, both campaigns need to cut the crap and post negative advertising that's actually TRUE, especially McCain. But when I say taking it too far, I'm talking about the "Obama is a terrorist" and "kill him!" cries at the rallies that have gone ignored by the campaign. That needs to be STOPPED. Period. Also, one of Palin's more recent rally appearances couldn't help but rub off on me as though she was implying Obama is a terrorist or works with them? you can say "well she wasn't saying that," but "Obama pals around with terrorists" is enough for me. John McCain is a better man than that. He should be above all of this, and so should Obama.

John McCain is a better man than that. Today, at one of McCain's rallies, a couple of people were saying completely false and terrible things about Obama. Things like "We're afraid of him", "You NEED to beat him", "He's an Arab", etc.

McCain did not agree or encourage any of that. In fact, he immediately corrected them. McCain told them he never said that, that he doesn't encourage that, that he knows Obama, that Obama is a wonerful family man, and that put simply what they believe is totally false.

McCain and Obama don't hate each other. They're probably friends or at least chummy. But, we're late into the campaign now and that's when things get dirty. But, when things do get way out of hand they do stand up for each other.

 

[Aurafire]

Everyone missed my post X(

But Triforce brings up an excellent point. Just because some McCain supporters hold false accusations of Obama's past doesn't mean he himself believes them.

Offshore Drilling: Totally useless. It only damages surrounding habitats and wildlife and doesn't really address the energy problems we have, it just band-aids them (and the band-aid won't even come for awhile). Sorry, I just find the whole "drill baby drill" thing a political device that neither candidate seriously believes will help.

I was almost going to you post slide, but I just have to comment on the off shore drilling thing. The benefits clearly outweigh the losses, as we have new ways of drilling that have less of an impact on the environment. We'd be drilling in such an incredibly minute part of the ocean, the impacts on the environment would barely even be noticeable. Of course drilling doesn't address the whole problem (Hello, we're running out of oil), but there is little reason why the environmental risks out-weigh the gains, and there is certainly no reason as to why it wouldn't be beneficial economically. It's part of the solution for energy independence, not the whole solution. In case you haven't noticed, our economy needs oil like we need oxygen: Without it, the entire country would collapse.

And don't argue full-on alternative energy, because there's no way we have the technology to do that (If we did, we wouldn't be arguing this right now).

 

[Anti]

Gah, didn't mean to imply that McCain supports the awful things the supporters say lol. Yes, I can't agree more there. I wasn't aware McCain stopped them, but I know Palin didn't.

About offshore drilling, it might be because I'm a global warming junkie but I really don't like the idea of drilling when it doesn't even produce oil for a few years (I don't remember the exact number). I don't see the benefit of only increasing environmental problems when only temporarily prolonging the time we still have oil. For energy independence, I totally agree that we need a plan. I just don't think drilling is going to help a whole lot. I understand it's only a part of the plan, I just don't think it's necessary.

If and when the economy rebounds, I really hope energy independence and the environment become more prominant issues since they are very important.

I live in the swing state of Ohio so every college football game or CBS Tuesday night we get a whole load of those negative ads. That's probably why I'm so annoyed by them ;)

 

[Netto Azure]

Replies

I've been hearing from people I know (mostly in swing states) about receiving a DVD of this movie in the mail:

Good grief. We sure don't mess around when it comes to propaganda. Apparently, they did something similar last election with United 93. I doubt you'd see something like this anywhere else in the world.

Well the election is in the next 3 weeks, so negative ads bloom like mushrooms. Propaganda?, I could see the fear mongering. Yes, the terrorists are out there but we already have invested so much in the War on Terror already, what about the other issues?

Bah. War on Terror. Moar leik war on ninjas, amirite? I swear, I saw Ganadorf give Garaa a ride in that picture. And doesn't the one in the right look liek he's developing hand signals?

It's getting a bit hard to understand...where you stand. You say one thing, then swap to the opposite, and repeat just what I have on my post. It's confusing.

Well, regardless, I'm glad that this whole crash may blow over if all goes well. Of course, things are never that simple, but they aren't always complicated. Deep...I r an geneous. And this whole "pull out" thing people keep saying, well, it also ain't that easy. While my views are largley democratic, we lose the --how to say this for uderstanding-- "repsect" of the the other nations, and democracy as a whole takes a burn.

Oh, I so sorry, I know that my position has started to look contradicting on my past posts. I'll try to clear it up since my positions on things have changed over the past month:

Off-Shore Oil Drilling: Yes, but it should only be a stop-gap measure until we develop new technologies. And it should only be a part of the larger plan.
War on Terror: I still am not sure. But focus must be moved to Afganistan since Pakistan is starting to become the Front-lines.
Healthcare: FULL TRUE UNIVERSAL HEALTHCARE FOR ALL! SIMILAR TO OTHER WESTERN NATIONS!
Education: I'm not an expert but I agree that NCLB MUST be improved. A lot of people here are under NCLB.
Energy Independence: No-brainer, Fossil-fuels are finite, New technologies are needed. Emphasis on Hydrogen and Cheap Solar technologies.
Immigration: Touchy subject since I am one myself. Legal Immigration I fully support. Undocumented Immigration, Congress must pass comprehensive reform to streamline the process. (Wow. The McCain-Kennedy Bill of 2006 almost got us started...But eh...)
The Economy: I support the development of a mixed economy . When all hell broke lose this past month it just proves that pure laizze-fair policy is big No-no. Responsible Restrictions must be put in place that is appropriate for the 21st Century. The answer is not Socialism, Fascism, Mercantilism nor pure Laizze-fair. The free-market works, but oversight and restrictions must be in place.
The Candidates "Skeletons": It really depends on what things pop up from the past.
Foreign Policy: Diplomacy is a must, Military action should only be taken as a last resort.

We should start rebuilding our image to the World. But in this heavily multi-polar and interdependent world we should also listen to other nations and cooperate with them especially our allies.

Edit: I fully support Barack Obama and the Democratic Party of the United States.

 

[LilLoveGirl]

It's almost time so I really think Obama will win!

 

[sims796]

I vote for the third party canadite, Cobra Commander. I really think that his brand of evil beliefs may really turn this country in the right direction.

This really gets on my nerves, and it's the "skeletons" withi each canadite. oestly, who gives a frick. If Bill wants to cheat on his wife, they have no right to disbarr him (that isn't the word I am looking for, could somebody help?) from office, as he has not usurped his position. The same goes with any other canadite. I don't give a shark what the frick Palin reads on her frickin' spare time, I really don't.

 

[Netto Azure]

Replies...*Call the Wahhhmmmbulance* Wahhh!!!

I vote for the third party canadite, Cobra Commander. I really think that his brand of evil beliefs may really turn this country in the right direction.

This really gets on my nerves, and it's the "skeletons" withi each canadite. oestly, who gives a frick. If Bill wants to cheat on his wife, they have no right to disbarr him (that isn't the word I am looking for, could somebody help?) from office, as he has not usurped his position. The same goes with any other canadite. I don't give a shark what the frick Palin reads on her frickin' spare time, I really don't.

LOL! How are we supposed to vote for Cobra Commander if he's hiding in his little ship of death underwater. We haven't even seen him campaign and the election is within 3 weeks. How are we supposed to support him if we don't know what his positions on the issues are? Anyways with the economy as it is, How could we still fund G.I. Joe to hunt the Cobras down and bring them out to campaign? They use some pretty expexsive equipment you know... :P (j/k)

Also my position on Climate Change: It's real and it must be fought responsibly with an emphasis on clean green technologies. :D

You mean "Impeach" Prez. Clinton (Part of Congress' power in the balancing act of the US Constitution) Ay...Don't remind me of the Clinton Administration...We could have done so many of our major issues today on that administration, so many missed opportunities. First, Hillary Clinton's drive for Universal Healthcare, Second, The Passage of the Kyoto Treaty which would have also started us on the path to Energy independence and fight Climate Change! Why did the Republicans have to shoot those down?
Why?!!! Argh!!! It's like a bunch of students procrastinating on their homework until the last minute!
Look at where we are now, playing catch-up on Energy Independence and the fight against Climate Change. 50+ Million Americans without Health insurance (Now even increasing with the economic meltdown.) Seriously even John McCain now wants everyone to have the money to buy health-insurance! TT^TT *sob*
I just want to bang my head against the wall until I start hallucinating about a Parallel Universe where we have Universal Healthcare and started fighting Climate Change much earlier....:(

Eh...As I said earlier, It depends on what pops up from their past....:\

 

[sims796]

Well, it is my understadning that Obama was friends with the terrorist who started 9/11, or something like that. That instantly maekz him a terroists, and that instantly maekz not fit to run this country.

Also, Mclain littered on 43 St two days ago, so he obviously doesn't care about our enviormental issues.


Yeah,, propaganda has been reduced to catty BS like that within the past few years, and the entire campain was a joke.

 

[CHG-Swampert]

lol i sorry i'm freakin stupid. I just moved to America a while ago and haven't listened to a word they've said :P. However after looking at how it's going, i say Obama/Biden will win =/ Also, my parents (who miraculously know everything about it WTF?) are going for Obama but cannot vote since we are no fully citizens (FAIL). meh Americans are mean lol

(and for those who are wondering: I am NOT changing my location... i miss my home...)

 

[Netto Azure]

Oh my...

And I thought the US $850 Billion bail-out was big. Look at the European Union's combined bailout amounts: about $1 Trillion+

BBC: Europe acts to strengthen banks...
https://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/7667342.stm

Also, finally Obama puts forth some kind of economic plan in writing...
https://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/us_elections_2008/7667772.stm

 

[Red1530]

Well, it is my understadning that Obama was friends with the terrorist who started 9/11, or something like that.

You are wrong. The terrorist is Bill Ayers, a domestic terrorist that founded the terrorist group, Weather Underground. One of their targets was the Pentagon, so that is were the 9/11 mix up is coming from.

In Ohio ACORN is currently under investigation for voter registration fraud. Senator Obama recently had to change a FEC to show that he payed an ACORN subsidiary for a get out the vote operation.

Today's Washington Times printed a story showing a connection between Senator Obama and Kenyan Prime Minister Raila Odinga. Mr. Odinga has connection to radical Muslims and participated in a 1982 coup attempt.

 

[Netto Azure]

Please....

Watch the PBS Frontline Special Tonight!: The Choice 2008
An Independent Documentary on the 2 Prez. candidates.

https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/choice2008/

Check your local listings.

Just to emphasize, Google the truth behind the smears YOURSELF:

It really would be a long 3 weeks...Lucky, Canadians...(Another Minority Government?) You guys only had to endure a month of campaigning, and actually know who the party leaders are...3 Major Parties and 2 Minor Parties....D=

 

[Red1530]

Tonight is the third and last Presidential debate and it is about domestic policy. I hope that it is more lively then the second debate and the moderator ask other domestic policy questions besides the economy and health care like immigration and gun control.

 

[Allstories]

This election in a nutshell:

 

[TRIFORCE89]

OMG Floating head with a camera!

Tonight's debate was much more boring than the other two.

 

[Aurafire]

OMG Floating head with a camera!

Tonight's debate was much more boring than the other two.

I disagree. I thought McCain did as best as he could of done under the circumstances, and both candidates were much more direct with their answers. But meh, that's just one person's perspective.

 

[TRIFORCE89]

I am so disappointed in McCain and just what his campaign has become. The best thing you can do in any situation is be yourself, not who others want you to be. He didn't get to run the campaign he wanted, it had to be the way the Republican base wanted and it just shot him right down the toilet.

There's a whole lot that I disagree with Obama about, but I'm going to be backing him.

 

[Netto Azure]

Reply

I disagree. I thought McCain did as best as he could of done under the circumstances, and both candidates were much more direct with their answers. But meh, that's just one person's perspective.

True...But the fundamentals of the election are already in Obama's favor...The debate was a lot more aggressive but neither one really talked about what programs to cut due to the economic crisis....again...

 

[Aurafire]

McCain is the one supporting the spending freeze on mostly everything except for military and I forget what else. Obama talks about how he can heal the pain and make things better. AKA: Taxation corporations and small business owners that are the ones creating jobs in the first place. How can you create jobs when you're taxing the very people creating them???

Obama's plans don't make sense, and if people would just listen to what he's saying instead of becoming infatuated with his pretty words, they would realize it. Half of what he says is fluff to make him sound more attractive, and the other half is policies that...how do I put this lightly....DON'T WORK. McCain is absolutely right when he said that the absolute worst thing to do in a crisis like this is to raise taxes on anyone. Does anyone else see that that Obama is going to raise taxes on the very people who are most important to the survival of the economy? How can he say that his tax increase won't hurt small businesses when he's going to tax them over 50% of their total income?

He's also going to end tax cuts for businesses that ship jobs over-seas. Well that's all fine and dandy, but why do you think those businesses ship the jobs in the first place? Cheaper labor. Asking a company to not ship jobs is like asking them to not take free money. I'd do the exact same thing if it cut costs. Meanwhile, Obama will end their tax cuts. Does anyone know what those businesses are going to do when they're paying over 50% of their income to the government? They're going to cut jobs. It's common sense, really...but for some reason people just don't want to step back and think for ONE SECOND.

But hey, more power to him if he can simultaneously raise taxes AND create jobs, provide the country with free healthcare AND keep spending money and get us energy independent in 10 years WITHOUT tapping into every oil reserve we have. Somehow, I'm sensing epic fail. Anyone else?

Yeah, Obama's probably going to win the election. I'm not holding out much more hope for McCain. But it's going to be 4 years of hell. We'll just have to suffer through and wait for someone competent to run against him in 2012.

Rant = Complete.