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Using the basics

Bah, it happens, now he knows a strategy for double battles!
 
I never intended, nor did I claim, for her to counter physical Luke, I know that your special wall never counters physical Pokemon. Donphan can counter physical Luke though. As far as special Luke are concerned:

252 SAtk Modest Specs Luke will 2HKO Gardevoir with Shadow Ball every time.
252 SAtk Timid Specs Luke will more often than not 3HKO Gardevoir with Shadow Ball, but a 2HKO is possible.
252 SAtk Modest Scarf Luke will 3HKO Gardevoir every time with Shadow Ball.
252 SAtk Timid Scarf Luke will 4HKO Gardevoir every time (I think every time) with Shadow Ball.

And all mixed Luke that carry Shadow Ball/Dark Pulse will 4HKO or worse.

And Shadow Ball and Dark Pulse are the same move, just differently typed.
There's a simple solution: Don't bring her in on a Shadow Ball or a Dark Pulse.

Togekiss, who is immune to Shadow Ball, can OHKO back with Aura Sphere.
Lucario, who is 4x resistant to Dark Pulse, can OHKO back with Sky Uppercut.

And countering Specs Pokemon is possible and common this way.

252 SAtk Modest Specs Luke Dark Pulse vs 4 HP / 0 SDef Lucario: 19.96%-22.51% for the record.

She's more auxiliary to beating Luke than an actual counter for Specs Luke that carry Shadow Ball or Dark Pulse. She does, however, counter mixed sweepers, and that's the reason I actually suggested her.
 
sims796 said:
soo...

Gardy@Leftovers
Nature:Calm
WoW
CM
Wish
Psychic

Or something like that? I ain't no Gardy expert, but she should be able to burn the crap out of Blissey, then either outstall or force a switch.
Click to expand...

Along those lines, but sometimes I remove Wish and just use Focus Blast and Psychic. It's not a real standard, just something I cooked up in my spare time.
 
wow, i certainly have missed a lot. Thanx for all the suggestions. I'ma go ahead and go with the followin set:
Gardevoir @Leftovers
Calm Nature
Synchronize
252 HP., 212 Sp. Def., 44 Sp. Attk.

Psychic
Thunderbolt
Hypnosis
Wish

I would havegone with wow, but some trainers would expect that, and switch to a poke with a guts/facade combo.
 
hardc0rerock said:
wow, i certainly have missed a lot. Thanx for all the suggestions. I'ma go ahead and go with the followin set:
Gardevoir @Leftovers
Calm Nature
Synchronize
252 HP., 212 Sp. Def., 44 Sp. Attk.

Psychic
Thunderbolt
Hypnosis
Wish

I would havegone with wow, but some trainers would expect that, and switch to a poke with a guts/facade combo.
Click to expand...



I honestly think Will-o-wisp is a must, or Reflect, or its just inviving stuff in to Pursuit you, also most people will pick on its poor def, so it helps in that aspect.

Trace always >> Synchronize, its more useful, as it allows to to wall heatran, Electivire and Intimidate stuff right back.

Anyways, dont most things with Guts die to psychic anyways ? So you can use some prediction an Psychic them as they switch in. Facade and Guts is rarely seen regardless.
 
Thanks for the help. I switched Hypnosis to Reflect. Is there any other pokemon i need work on?

I just realized my team is in bad need of a special wall. I was gonna replace one for swampert. Are here any special walls out there that can also serve as Phazers?
 
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I honestly don't know why Snorlax was replaced, as Gardevoir is the inferior special wall. MixApe isn't a good enough reason to leave your team open to most major special threats (Gengar...) that easily. Togekiss is bulky enough to stand up to most MixApe (although I must ask where Roost is, as it is so vital on NP Togekiss).

I would go with this:

Snorlax @ Leftovers
Trait: Thick Fat
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Careful Nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Body Slam
- Crunch

I would use Crunch rather than Earthquake here to beat Gengar and Mismagius.

BTW on Togekiss, it doesn't need that much speed, especially if you're using it with Thunder wave (though Roost should go over that).
 
Anti Pop Culture Warrior said:
I honestly don't know why Snorlax was replaced, as Gardevoir is the inferior special wall. MixApe isn't a good enough reason to leave your team open to most major special threats (Gengar...) that easily. Togekiss is bulky enough to stand up to most MixApe (although I must ask where Roost is, as it is so vital on NP Togekiss).

I would go with this:

Snorlax @ Leftovers
Trait: Thick Fat
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Careful Nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Body Slam
- Crunch

I would use Crunch rather than Earthquake here to beat Gengar and Mismagius.

BTW on Togekiss, it doesn't need that much speed, especially if you're using it with Thunder wave (though Roost should go over that).
Click to expand...

Agree ^^


However, if one wishes Togekiss to stand up to mixape, use FlinchhaxKiss, aka "Togebliss"

Togekiss@Leftovers
252 HP / 252 SP.DEF / 6 DEF
Calm Nature
Trait : Serene Grace
- Air Slash
- Thunderwave
- Roost
- Aura Sphere

Anyways, this survives a Nasty Plot Life Orb Fire Blast from mixape and is one of the best Mixmence counters in existence (Yes, it can survive 2 consecutive Draco meteors, even from specs mence lol). And all those things that run 269 sp.att for chomp ? Well, this can survive 4/5 of T-Bolts/Ice beams from stuff in that area of attacking power lol. Just an insight of how hard this thing can take special hits.
 
I replaced snorlax so hat i could put a counter for Mixape, cuz Mixape with HP Ice machine guns my team down.
I'll go with D_A's Flinchhax, pretty much like my moveset, but without any boosts.
 
Gengar is a lot more common than Mixape =/ Like D_A said, Togekiss will beat MixApe, and with SR down it can still beat most of the. I'd much rather be MixApe weak than weak to practically every special attacker in the game.
 
Anti Pop Culture Warrior said:
Gengar is a lot more common than Mixape =/ Like D_A said, Togekiss will beat MixApe, and with SR down it can still beat most of the. I'd much rather be MixApe weak than weak to practically every special attacker in the game.
Click to expand...

Yep, the idea i said to use that version of togekiss was so it could be used in conjunction with Snorlax to beat ape, so gardy wouldnt be needed.
 
If i replaced Snorlax with Gardevoir, what version should I use? I don't like resttalk version, and curselax(as ppl have said in htis thread) is no good for this team.
 
hardc0rerock said:
If i replaced Snorlax with Gardevoir, what version should I use? I don't like resttalk version, and curselax(as ppl have said in htis thread) is no good for this team.
Click to expand...

Resttalker. Regardless of whether or not you like resttalkers, ResttalkLax is the only version that can effectively wall special attackers. I posted the set earlier.

If you really have your heart set on not using Resttalk Lax, then use an alternative such as Blissey.
 
I've found 2 different options for special walls.

Blissey @Leftovers
Calm Nature
Natural Cure
40HP/ 252 Def/ 216 Sp. Def.

Seismic Toss
Thunderwave
Aromatherapy
Softboiled

or

Regice @Leftovers
Calm Nature
252 Def., 4 spd., 252 HP

Ice Beam
Rest
Seismic Toss
Sleep Talk

I like RestTalk Ice over RestTalk Lax because Lax can't use S-Toss from wat i know. S-Toss is vital for me on a wall.


 
hardc0rerock said:
I've found 2 different options for special walls.

Blissey @Leftovers
Calm Nature
Natural Cure
40HP/ 252 Def/ 216 Sp. Def.

Seismic Toss
Thunderwave
Aromatherapy
Softboiled

or

Regice @Leftovers
Calm Nature
252 Def., 4 spd., 252 HP

Ice Beam
Rest
Seismic Toss
Sleep Talk

I like RestTalk Ice over RestTalk Lax because Lax can't use S-Toss from wat i know. S-Toss is vital for me on a wall.


Click to expand...

Well Regice isn't a great choice considering it is weak to the ever-common Stealth Rock.

I must say though, not relying on Seismic Toss doesn't make a wall worse. Snorlax isn't offensively retarded like Blissey is - he has 110 base attack. STAB Body Slams coming off of it plus the chance of paralysis is a lot better than Seismic Toss, where anything that can generatate 101 subs and can CM basically wins. In case you're wondering, Snorlax actually does get Seismic Toss - it's just a bad option on him because he has better options, such as Body Slam, Crunch, and Earthquake. Now if you don't want to use Snorlax, fine, but "not having Seismic Toss" is pretty much a terrible reason not to use Snorlax or any other wall for that matter.

The Blissey set is fine in the event that you use that, but wow...having to use Seismic Toss to deal damage is almost a disadvantage...
 
Good point on both Lax and Bliss. I'm probably gonan go with Lax becuase it has a better chance of surviving a physical attack than Bliss.

Snorlax @Leftovers
Careful Nature
Thick Fat
244 HP/28 Def/236 Sp. Def.

Crunch
Rest
Sleep Talk
Body Slam

I rlly don't like Resttalk Lax, but as Anti has said, Resttalk is the only efficient Lax that can wall well enough.
 
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