[Discussion] [Vote] Community

[Cilerba]

Well obviously it makes no sense when you remove my entire argument and just include that bit. If you look at the topics in the beginners lounge, they're either locked, should be in the team recruitment thread, should be in the essetials help thread, or could be in the Help and Resource centre. You should be replying to my post saying why it isn't a good idea, instead of just making it look like it's so unthinkable you're lost for words. Frankly I'd rather have past mod Neo-Dragon's opinion on this, at least I know he'd be thorough and not belittling.

Well, it is a bit hard to be thorough and belittling when your posts don't make sense and you're making insulting comments like that. Honestly, I admit that the Beginner's Lounge wasn't the greatest idea that we've ever had. And what you're saying about the questions thread is a horrible idea. It wouldn't be smart at all to remove it seeing as though not everybody uses Pokémon Essentials. Most of the community does use it, I'm not disagreeing with that, however there will be members that are looking for help that do not use Pokémon Essentials. And last but not least, what stickies are you talking about that should be moved to the Help and Resource Center?

I most certainly hope that was a more thorough Neo-Dragon-worth reply, Peeky Chew.

 

[Peeky Chew]

Well, it is a bit hard to be thorough and belittling when your posts don't make sense and you're making insulting comments like that.

No, you're misunderstanding me, I meant that I wanted you to be thorough, but not belittling. I could belittle you by replying to this post with "What..." and you wouldn't be very happy with that, so I hope you can understand where I'm coming from.

Honestly, I admit that the Beginner's Lounge wasn't the greatest idea that we've ever had. And what you're saying about the questions thread is a horrible idea. It wouldn't be smart at all to remove it seeing as though not everybody uses Pokémon Essentials. Most of the community does use it, I'm not disagreeing with that, however there will be members that are looking for help that do not use Pokémon Essentials. And last but not least, what stickies are you talking about that should be moved to the Help and Resource Center?

I don't mean that it should be removed altogether, I just said in its current form. It'd be better if it was moved to Help and Resources, since it's the place people are most likely to go for help. Well it isn't that they need to, it's just that of it was replaced by an essentials forum, the other two stickys (obviously not the rules) could be moved to Help and resources.

I most certainly hope that was a more thorough Neo-Dragon-worth reply, Peeky Chew.

Well it doesn't really matter since now you've replied properly. Neo-Dragon was just contributing to the thread more, and since he's also an ex-mod, I really wanted his opionion on it (since at the time I assumed you didn't want to give yours).

 

[Neo-Dragon]

Yeah I voiced my opinion on that Beginner Lounge section in my first post I think.

Any ways, if there is a Wiki for Essentials it should be very easy to get to- meaning it should have a thread about it.
(Edit: Now the thread was bumped and I see it. But that says it all if an ex-mod couldn't see it lol)
Best thing I could think of would be to have a sticky thread that has download links to the latest stable release of Essentials, a link to the wiki, and links to code examples and tutorials if there are any. There should be some place that users can go to find a video or print walkthrough of setting up and getting to grips with Essentials- and it should be clearly titled as a sticky thread.

There should be someone (or a small team) held responsibly for maintaining the wiki and tutorials. If you guys make it easier to find documentation on Essentials, you'll find a lot less help me posts popping up. Although I've never used Essentials, I know from experience with other code that there is a learning curve to using someone else's code API set (which is what Essentials is) so that should be goal one. Work on making the new section more user and newbie friendly then make content for more "hardcore" users.

 

[KingCharizard]

There should be someone (or a small team) held responsibly for maintaining the wiki and tutorials. If you guys make it easier to find documentation on Essentials, you'll find a lot less help me posts popping up. Although I've never used Essentials, I know from experience with other code that there is a learning curve to using someone else's code API set (which is what Essentials is) so that should be goal one. Work on making the new section more user and newbie friendly then make content for more "hardcore" users.

I agree which was my main argument against essentials getting its own sub section. Thats what I basically said here

I just think essentials it fine how it is. with the wiki and a thread whats the point of a sub forum. we just need to work on the wiki a bit more... then the sub forum would be redundant.

Again this is just my opinion...

 

[Maruno]

Yeah I voiced my opinion on that Beginner Lounge section in my first post I think.

Any ways, if there is a Wiki for Essentials it should be very easy to get to- meaning it should have a thread about it.
(Edit: Now the thread was bumped and I see it. But that says it all if an ex-mod couldn't see it lol)
Best thing I could think of would be to have a sticky thread that has download links to the latest stable release of Essentials, a link to the wiki, and links to code examples and tutorials if there are any. There should be some place that users can go to find a video or print walkthrough of setting up and getting to grips with Essentials- and it should be clearly titled as a sticky thread.

Well, there's my signature, but I don't post too often so maybe people miss it.

Your suggestion is exactly what I'd do if we got the section. I'd make a stickied thread called "The Useful Thread" or something, and as well as a few guidelines on posting (don't make threads called "Question"!), there'd be links to the wiki and a few other pages therein. The wiki itself is for documenting everything, but it does assume the user knows at least some RMXP in the first place - having said that, I don't want it to become a beginner's guide to RMXP when there are already plenty of those around. Maybe someone can make a tutorial about how to get started with Essentials and begin making a game.

Also, define "stable release". :P

There should be someone (or a small team) held responsibly for maintaining the wiki and tutorials. If you guys make it easier to find documentation on Essentials, you'll find a lot less help me posts popping up. Although I've never used Essentials, I know from experience with other code that there is a learning curve to using someone else's code API set (which is what Essentials is) so that should be goal one. Work on making the new section more user and newbie friendly then make content for more "hardcore" users.

I did try a bit of recruiting to make a dev team for Essentials (which would include wiki development, which is very much a part of Essentials) way back when, but I didn't get anything out of it. People just don't want to take responsibility, and I'm left with it all. I don't want to be. Maybe the new section will inspire people enough to contribute more (I have plans for it that may pan out).

I can tell you for a fact that no matter how user-friendly and advertised the wiki is, there will still be many questions, and most of those will be the simple ones we always get. I suspect it's mainly because of selective ignorance (of the "I see the link but won't bother trying it" kind) or utter laziness ("Can someone make a starter selection scene for me?" when the wiki lists very plainly how to do this and there's an example that comes with the kit). I think it's less about not being able to use Essentials, and more about not being able to use RMXP (which as I've said is something we're not going to cover).

The main problem I have with trying to improve the documentation (which I'm strongly in favour of) is that I'm just one person and I already know a lot about it. It's very difficult for me to see things from a newbie's perspective, so I don't know how to describe things to suit them. This problem is only perpetuated by no one else helping out or making suggestions on how to improve things.

Enough ranting from me.

 

[KingCharizard]

Your suggestion is exactly what I'd do if we got the section. I'd make a stickied thread called "The Useful Thread" or something, and as well as a few guidelines on posting (don't make threads called "Question"!), there'd be links to the wiki and a few other pages therein. The wiki itself is for documenting everything, but it does assume the user knows at least some RMXP in the first place - having said that, I don't want it to become a beginner's guide to RMXP when there are already plenty of those around. Maybe someone can make a tutorial about how to get started with Essentials and begin making a game.

This can be done now, in a thread like the original essentials thread it doesn't need its own section a thread like this could be made and be stickied. Why put it in its own section. the only benifit to essentials getting its own section is so questions directly related to it can be placed there instead of the main development section.. For instance the Beginners lounge could just be renamed for essentials or a thread for essentials could just be placed there... it already contains helpful beginners threads for RMXP, like i said I m kinda for a section as it will organizethings alot and newbie's would get faster and more direct help but I dont see it happening.. My advice is to just move forward for now...

 

[Maruno]

Remember a while back in the wiki thread I tried to start up a discussion about savegames? I want to make a bunch of them, and cramming them all in a single thread just won't work. And since they're related to the improvement of Essentials, they shouldn't really lie around just anywhere. The only solution is a sub-section. And that's not even mentioning the Project threads (in the "Adding All Item Effects Project" sense), which will allow the community to contribute more easily.

There's more to wanting this section than just having a Useful Thread. My opinion is that getting a sub-section is "moving forward for now".

 

[IceGod64]

It's amazing how so many people are second-guessing something that's only a benefit to the starter kit. Maruno has stated numerous solid reasons as to why the kit should have its own forum. The opposing reasons are almost completely wishy-washy. I've already addressed the "Splitting up the community" statements, but I'll say it again - The Pokemon Essentials community is large enough where it needs to have it's own section for discussion. Think of how many essentials-related questions are asked, how many unimplemented features there are, how many things still need to be fixed... Having it's own section would seriously be a help to everyone, whether you admit it or not.

My advice is to just move forward for now...

Exactly, and making a Pokemon Essentials forum sub-section IS moving forward. Progress cant be made if we don't at least experiment with new idea's - If moving forward didn't mean trying new ideas or experimenting, we'd still be cave men.