5th Gen Were Ghetsis' plans obvious from the beginning?

[Ho-Oh]

So as we all know, nobody really discovered Ghetsis' plans until the end of the game. Except that's not really true. Thing is, we already sorta knew Ghetsis' plans from the beginning, but we just didn't notice the signs...

Think back to Accumula when Ghetsis gave you his original speech. Analyse what he's saying,

"I'm here to talk to you about Pokemon liberation" - Ghetsis
"Can anyone say with confidence there is no truth in what I'm saying?" - Ghetsis
"Tell me, what is our responsibility to these wonderful beings we call Pokemon?" - Ghetsis

As you'll see, firstly he's introducing the topic... has anyone else in-game told you that they were going to discuss a certain thing? Because usually people with good intentions don't really introduce a topic, and just speak straight out with emotion included, Ghetsis' speech sounds too pre-prepared, really. Now as for the second line, he's guilting the people into agreeing with him, only because there's a group. For example, would you be more likely to agree with a statement that questions morality if there is a group around than if you were alone? Yeah his intentions were to get enough witnesses so that the ones who really did believe in Pokemon liberation would spread the word, and the others would have to agree. Is that really something a good person would do? Nope!

And on the third line, Ghetsis uses colourful language in order to evoke a response of "oh, liberation, he has a point..." all using techniques in order to convince the audience of his view. And it seems he really does, since people walk away questioning it, and even later on you find out that Burgh heard his speech, although clearly you'd have seen that Burgh was actually not there. This just shows how far Ghetsis' ideas for "Pokemon liberation" has spread, and therefore he actually successfully has delivered his opening speech. However! Why not in Castelia, and Accumula? Well... during the day most people in Castelia are actually working, and people in Accumula don't really seem to have jobs and there's a lot of people around there anyway. Whereas Nuvema is too small, people are too interested in entertainment in Nimbasa, etc etc, so as a result Accumula was perfect because they probably enjoy spreading gossip?

At the Dreamyard...

"We'll show them dreams to manipulate their hearts" - Plasma

Yes, because manipulating hearts is a good thing. Seriously, is anyone not thinking "evil" by now? I mean, Ghetsis probably even pre-wrote eveything Plasma is saying so they can throw out their lies whenever they wish to do so.

Now skip to Pinwheel forest,

"But we will not allow anyone to disrupt our plans and get away with it. We will fix it so you never interfere with us again." - Sage
"To secure the liberation of Pokemon, we will steal the Pokemon from trainers." - Sage

You see, that's not really how good guys talk, sure Team Plasma is misguided, but really, the sages, by threatening your character doesn't really seem like a good thing, correct? In fact, go through the dialogue in past games with definite evil teams, they seem to be hitting all the checkboxes, stealing Pokemon, making sure you don't interefere in their plans...

At Castelia, Ghetsis opens up,

"If we can win people's hearts and minds, we can easily create the world that I--I mean, Team Plasma--desires!" - Ghetsis

He wants the power to control hearts to affect the decisions people make, aka since the heart can somewhat control the mind, which is why hearts was mentioned beforehand and minds were only introduced at Castelia after he mentioned Burgh was smart / intelligent. And the world he wants to create is one without anyone else having control, of course if you brainwash people through your speeches eventually you'll ahve control. :x Either way he skipped up there, showing his true intentions which hadn't been entirely done up to that point, which is when most people playing the games would likely reconsider how they viewed Ghetsis.

Then at Tubeline,

"We alone will be able to use Pokemon!" - Ghetsis
"All trainers will be helpless to resist us!" - Ghetsis
"...will be unable to face public opinion..." - Ghetsis

Hypocrisy is annoying. :(

If that first line doesn't really make it obvious that Ghetsis' doesn't intend to liberate Pokemon, then I don't know what does. He kinda doesn't really care at that point imo, because he thinks that your character is powerless, and since apparently your character seems to have all these friends yet is unable to talk but that isn't really what's discussed hereee.

Back to the point, Ghetsis views your character as nothing really, so he doesn't mind if you figure out his plan, because soon he'll fully explain it to you. And on the final line, he's implying that the public opinion, aka what I explained back in Accumula was exactly his plan. He's manipulating people by the influence of other people.

"I kept my silence so noone could piece together what I planned" - Ghetsis
"Power to control the fearful masses!" - Ghetsis

Did you notice the theme throughout these quotes (and Ghetsis' speech in general)? He didn't actually keep his silence, he slipped up more than once by accidentally saying his plans, as well as the goal to manipulate hearts - in what way is that good?

• Either way, do you think Ghetsis efficiently kept his silence or failed at doing so?
• How soon did you catch on to Ghetsis plans?
• Are they more obvious if you replay through the games?
• How do you think he could have been more believable?

 

[Nephilim]

Either way, do you think Ghetsis efficiently kept his silence or failed at doing so?

At the beginning of the game, I thought his plans was pretty obvious and straightforward. Team Plasma is very unique in this approach to use manipulation as quite the cunning tactic to guilt the people into agreeing with them and liberating the Pokemon, as you've said and whatnot.

Later on throughout the game, I pretty much learned to expect the same. My expectations really did not change and whatnot, and I grew to think it would be the the traditional "stop the bad guys from taking over the world" kind of stuff, and I thought this was the kind of thing Ghetsis was after.



How soon did you catch on to Ghetsis plans?



But I was wrong as soon as I approached the end of the game, I really truly knew what Ghetsis was after. He was only intended on his own self-satisfaction, as that quote that you've said by him pretty much made it obvious by then. It was unexpected that he would go so far as to betray his own team in order to accomplish what he wants, heck, he even went so far as to manipulate N himself to make sure that his goals were met. To me, this really added some depth to the storyline, and drew me in more as, for the first time in a Pokemon game, something actually resembling a plot-twist actually happens.


Are they more obvious if you replay through the games?



If I were to replay the game, I would've probably start paying more attention to the key things Ghetsis was saying about his plans, because honestly I really took them for granted and didn't expect much out of it, if anything, so if by replaying it I would take into account more his speeches and whatnot, though you got to honestly expect that with a character as creepy as him, something -has- to be up.

How do you think he could have been more believable?

If he wasn't creepy looking and whatnot, yes. I will say with complete honesty that he did really try his best to make himself sound believable, and in this, he caused many a civilian to even be confused about whether or not to part themselves and their Pokemon, but in the end, it wasn't really effective, and to be honest, there have been cases where Team Plasma themselves had to resort to even stealing Pokemon from trainers. This is not something you should do if you want to get your point across, to be honest.

 

[Opposite Day]

I would reply that with his theme music, there's no wonder that he's a really really creepy and probably disturbing fellow - so he's got to be up to something sinister.. XD

Rule the world? Didn't really cross my mind when I first played through japanese white. In fact, I figured that it was the champion or something that was standing there in Accamula, since why would a crowd otherwise assemble for someone? I mean, people don't flock around you when you are the champ, so this person had got to be important somehow.

Obvious from the beginning? Maybe to you - but to the average unovian, I think not. He's fairly convincing, he arguments pretty well, and as said earlier he's got to be somewhat famous to draw and maintain people's attention in the first place.

Ghetsis somewhat brainwashing his own grunts seems somewhat likely though (considering the N business and all that), or at least attempting to sharpen their already pretty strong convictions, due to the fact that the grunts at least seem to believe that they are doing the right thing. Hopefully he designed their outfits as well as his own too, because that'd save the mediocre police we've seen in the pokemon world from hunting down a horrible clothes fashionist. (cowboys and workers hauling in grunts that are wearing metallic armor in a giant freezer? huh)

You know, I would love it if Looker is really Ghetsis in disguise (or rather, the other way around but meh) and that he wanted you to hunt down the other six useless sages as revenge..

EDIT: Also Derk remember Cyrus from Team Galactic? Yeah sure, nice team, I'm just going to create my own universe with none of you included. Totally caring fellow - he makes Ghetsis seem like a cuddly teddy in comparison.

 

[2Cool4Mewtwo]

I'd say no. I did think he was up to something horrible, but I would never realize that he was actually aspiring to rule the world by only using his pokemon.

 

[PlatinumDude]

Ghetsis' plans weren't that obvious because the sages and grunts said that they'd steal Pokemon from humans so that both parties would live separately. The only thing that wasn't mentioned was that Ghetsis wanted to be the only person with Pokemon.

 

[Polite Princess]

I didn't suspect him. I thought that he really wanted to liberate PKMN for good.
I can't believe that he is a criminal mastermind until he has truly revealed his own identity.

 

[crebirk]

I kinda knew form the start. the teams are always going for world domination. The cover story was pretty good though

 

[Bluerang1]

No. I like the surprise I got. I thought they really wanted Pokemon to be set free from their trainers, and nothing else. I got this idea from PETA and I doubt they have a leader who want to own all the animals in the world.

 

[dreyko]

i have to say that ghetsis plans surprised me in the end. i kne he was up to no good but i didn't know the extent of his plans. =/

 

[thegeneticway]

A+

Good job analyzing with such a deep thought and putting your mind to it. An honors English teacher would be proud.


Anyways, to be honest, I never really paid attention. But with his slip-ups like when he stammered about 'liberation', I kinda knew about his plans. I want them to be 'good' guys though. It seemed like a fun thought.

 

[Dracorus]

I never really thought much of him from the beginning, i knew he would show back up but i didnt think he would be a bad guy.. i would think they should like, let the enemy team be the good team and HELP the hero, instead of being against him. or maybe have 2 teams.. like Pokemon Emerald. only have a good team and a bad team that has rivals.. better yet, allow the hero to choose which side he/she wants to join, that would be an awesome pokemon game.

But im sidetracking.
for me, yes it was obvious. from past game experience, i could tell his plans were evil. BUT. i didnt know that N was the 'King' of the team.. thats what threw me off..