What do you feel about...

[Frostweaver]

......

*thinks that if the situation we're talking about now is in anywhere except 3rd world country, there's no reason to drop out of school as school is free except colledge/university*
*believes that with high school degree you can still get a job... not a good one but a decent one that isn't "prostitute"*
*thinks that there's no reason for a woman to be a prostitute unless she's forced to be one (such as kidnapped by evil evil people then forced to be a prostitute)*
*still thinks that even if the baby comes from rape/prostitute act, the baby should not be aborted...*
*knows that the above statement is easy to say but close to impossible to do ='(*

 

[Blaine]

......

*thinks that if the situation we're talking about now is in anywhere except 3rd world country, there's no reason to drop out of school as school is free except colledge/university*
*believes that with high school degree you can still get a job... not a good one but a decent one that isn't "prostitute"*
*thinks that there's no reason for a woman to be a prostitute unless she's forced to be one (such as kidnapped by evil evil people then forced to be a prostitute)*
*still thinks that even if the baby comes from rape/prostitute act, the baby should not be aborted...*
*knows that the above statement is easy to say but close to impossible to do ='(*

Drop-outs don't receive degrees. So you can't say they have one.

 

[Frostweaver]

........

*wonders why would someone drop out if education is free (as long as the situation is 1st world country)*

 

[Blaine]

........

*wonders why would someone drop out if education is free (as long as the situation is 1st world country)*

Like I said before:

But... There are a lot of reasons for dropping out of school. Some people drop out because they're in a situation where they have to support siblings or disabled parents. You can't call them dumb. There's a long list of reasons why one drops out of high school or something like that. And not all prostitutes are stupid. The majority of these women have learned a great deal from experiences with this style of life.

Some people drop out of school because of personal reasons or because of intimidation and on and on.

 

[Frostweaver]

*assumes that the situation is still in 1st world country*
*wonders why this high school student who obviously has no way to support siblings or disabled parents or other family members ask the government for help*
*also wonders at the possibility of "government may not be giving the proper help this family needed therefore forcing the girl to enter prostitution"...*
*is really curious if the above may happen... not likely he hopes* ='(

*doesn't know the laws within the few European countries with legal prostitution (and perhaps even some other countries outside of Europe that Frosty does not know of), but wonders if those "legal" prostitution provide "safe measures" for the "workers" o_o*

 

[Shining Arcanine]

It depends on the situation. For example, rape. Or if that person is physically unable to give birth. Or if that person doesn't have much money to take care of a child.

If the child is concieved, you have just as much right to kill it as I have to kill you.

Well, personally, I think abortion is fine. I mean, like Moonlight said, girls who conceive at an early age can't handle having a baby. Sometimes s e x can be an accident and there are consequences to accidents that just can't be undertaken. It may be like murder to some, but when you put yourself in the place of an impregnanted young woman who is shunned and put down because of the baby in her swollen tummy, you know that it's murder on her. Adoption is also hard, because you live the rest of your life know that you gave up someone who you brought into this world. And you know that you'll maybe never see him/her again... And even if you do, it still creates problems. I know, because my mom was adopted and she recently met her biological family and it's created a lot of difficulties and conflict. So all-in-all, I think abortion is O.K.

No one ever said that girls had to have children.

Still counts as depending on the situation. If one overuses it for prostituism or anything overly vile and immoral is wrong...

Only situation for an abortion is when the fetus is around a handful of cells and DNA testing reveals that it has a condition where it will brain dead or diease stricken for its entire life. Even if it is diease stricken, I still do not think it is right but if I could, I would not stop a person from doing it.

I didn't know the fetuses could be put in capsules.

Technology is wonderful, isn't it? Anyway, I'm not sure if that was perfected but it can be done.

I think it's fine if you get an abortion before it becomes a fetus.

If it's already a fetus then the woman should have the baby and just
give it up for adoption.

So it depends on the situation ...

Abortion is only possible after it is a fetus.

Prostitution is an occupation for some women. It's used as an alternative for high school drop-outs. Conception under those cirscumstances would be a complete accident because the women use both birth control and anti-conception materials. They know the ropes and know to use protection. But even then, it may be immoral, but these women have enough trouble supporting themselves, let alone a child.

They were stupid and decided to reproduce, after that abortion is not an option.

Anticonception materials are not an option as reproduction means there is a new person coming into the world. Planning to mate during certain points at a women's natural cycle is through.

Edit: I wouldn't stop someone from using anticonception materials through. For one reason. If God says that you are getting a son or daughter as a result of mating, you're getting one and there is nothing you can do to stop him from giving you a child.

Btw, it would be funny to hear reports of condoms suddenly shredding into a million pieces. Too bad anyone that happens to would be too embarassed to tell the media about it.

Drop-outs don't receive degrees. So you can't say they have one.

There is always (I hope) a grammar school degree but that isn't anything to brag about. It won't get you farther than McDonalds in the world.

 

[Shining Arcanine]

Killing a child in a rape situation is an excellent way to go to heck. Especially if God had plans for that person.

You have options through. It can be born from a capsule and you don't have to be its legal parent.

 

[Igglybuddy]

There's a been a few statements in this thread that make me want to come to the speaker's houses and disfigure them horribly. But I won't mention names, as that would just escalate things. *twitches*

Anyway.

I believe abortion is a private matter between a woman and her doctor. It -must- be available, especially in rape/incest cases, or situations in which the mother might die giving birth, among others. Just because someone made a poor choice when they were a teen doesn't mean they should be doomed to a life of working crappy jobs because they dropped out of high school to support the child of someone who's long since run off. And sure, they could always give the child up for adoption, but there's a shame factor to consider there.

"We Impregnate, You Don't Decide" was the way it was in the US until 1973. Just think, women are now in charge of what happens with their bodies! *shock and amazment!!*

Think about it, girls...if you were raped, if your boyfriend pressures you into doing it (this happens a lot more than you'd think...and if you're thinking, "F that, I'm too smart to let that happen", I hope to Cheese you're correct), and you get pregnant... well. Let's consider our options: in the rape case, you are now not only a victim, but you're having some ba$tard's kid. You can wait nine months and have the kid, then put it up for adoption...but in the meantime, you've got to keep trying to go to school and endure all the rumours and pitying looks. Or you can have an abortion, quickly and quietly. Same situation with the 'accident' scenario, only in that go around you've gained a reputation as a...woman of questionable repute. *shrugs* It's your choice, I guess.

And to the guys, I don't expect you to understand at all, but if you can, I salute you. Others, you can stand on your moral soapbox and yell until you're blue in the face, but ultimately it's not your choice to make. And although this will make my hands twitch convulsively in the direction of my chainsaw, it's what you believe and I can't change that. Just don't be the rapist or the @sshole boyfriend and we'll get along fine.

So...yes...in a perfect world, no one would have sex until they're ready to support the possibility of offspring, but the world is far from perfect. Nothing is ever going to stop teenagers from having it, education reduces the statistics but some people are just stupid. Even adults sometimes make errors in that particular field...no form of birth control is 100% effective, save abstinence.

No one is in charge of a woman's reproductive organs except herself. End of story.

 

[DragonTrainer]

You know, through abortion you may have killed future presidents or doctors etc...

Well, how could you live knowing you killed an innocent person just because you were too dumb to have "it" without knowing the consequenses.Or, to prevent rape, just dont walk around alone

 

[Igglybuddy]

You know, through abortion you may have killed future presidents or doctors etc...

Key words here being 'may have'. I'm more concerned about the mother in the equation, since we know she's a person, who means something to her family and friends. Weigh her worth against the worth of a microscopic cluster of cells.

Perhaps we should be more concerned about all the people in developing countries who have the potential to become a president or doctor, but are not. The thousands of people dying every day of starvation or disease seems a far more despicable problem than the few embryos or fetuses disposed of due to abortion.

Well, how could you live knowing you killed an innocent person just because you were too dumb to have "it" without knowing the consequenses.

I'm sure the women in question would much prefer depression to ruining their reputations or their futures.

Or, to prevent rape, just don't walk around alone.

...Please don't tell me you think it's that simple.

 

[baby*j]

Or, to prevent rape, just dont walk around alone

Wow ... *jams a pen in eye*

Women can walk around alone, it's not our fault PERVERT men can't
get any and decide to be stupid, ****ing, nasty mother****ers .


What if the woman needs to buy some late-night formula for her baby?
What if the woman has a night job to make her way through college?
What if the someone in the woman's family has a medical emergency and she
needs to go to the hospital?


Those are 3 of the countless scenarios that make your statement uterly ....

RIDICULOUS.

And they don't matter anyway, a woman should be able to walk with her head
held high ALONE whenever she pleases.

 

[Cherrim]

I'm more concerned about the mother in the equation, since we know she's a person, who means something to her family and friends.

Actually, we know the embryo is a human being because it was created by two human beings and it can't be anything else. ;p But I know where you're coming from.

As I told Shining Arcanine over MSN earlier today, we spent a lot of time on this topic in my religion class. My opinion is basically the same as it was before I learned about abortion, though. I'm not going to share it right now, though, because of lack of brain cells to tell it properly. o_o;

 

[Blaine]

There's a been a few statements in this thread that make me want to come to the speaker's houses and disfigure them horribly. But I won't mention names, as that would just escalate things. *twitches*

Anyway.

I believe abortion is a private matter between a woman and her doctor. It -must- be available, especially in rape/incest cases, or situations in which the mother might die giving birth, among others. Just because someone made a poor choice when they were a teen doesn't mean they should be doomed to a life of working crappy jobs because they dropped out of high school to support the child of someone who's long since run off. And sure, they could always give the child up for adoption, but there's a shame factor to consider there.

"We Impregnate, You Don't Decide" was the way it was in the US until 1973. Just think, women are now in charge of what happens with their bodies! *shock and amazment!!*

Think about it, girls...if you were raped, if your boyfriend pressures you into doing it (this happens a lot more than you'd think...and if you're thinking, "F that, I'm too smart to let that happen", I hope to Cheese you're correct), and you get pregnant... well. Let's consider our options: in the rape case, you are now not only a victim, but you're having some ba$tard's kid. You can wait nine months and have the kid, then put it up for adoption...but in the meantime, you've got to keep trying to go to school and endure all the rumours and pitying looks. Or you can have an abortion, quickly and quietly. Same situation with the 'accident' scenario, only in that go around you've gained a reputation as a...woman of questionable repute. *shrugs* It's your choice, I guess.

And to the guys, I don't expect you to understand at all, but if you can, I salute you. Others, you can stand on your moral soapbox and yell until you're blue in the face, but ultimately it's not your choice to make. And although this will make my hands twitch convulsively in the direction of my chainsaw, it's what you believe and I can't change that. Just don't be the rapist or the @sshole boyfriend and we'll get along fine.

So...yes...in a perfect world, no one would have sex until they're ready to support the possibility of offspring, but the world is far from perfect. Nothing is ever going to stop teenagers from having it, education reduces the statistics but some people are just stupid. Even adults sometimes make errors in that particular field...no form of birth control is 100% effective, save abstinence.

No one is in charge of a woman's reproductive organs except herself. End of story.

I agree fully! But of course... It took several posts and replying with quotes to state it and it will probably take more. But like Keleri said, this world is not perfect and we have to face the fact that young women are impregnated with children that they are ashamed of or want to regard as an accident and if the kids are given birth to, they'll go through h*** in life from their moms because they won't want to put the children up for adoption cos of shame. And abortion can save these kids from a lifetime of pain.

Also, you can only have an abortion before you're three months into the pregnancy. So the child isn't very well living.

 

[Cherrim]

Actually, you can have abortions up until at least 8 months into the pregnancy... possibly more. But it's much more painful for the mother and the options you have for the abortion are much less varied. If I remember correctly, it basically involves killing the baby before it comes through the birth canal or killing it in some other way and physically removing it from the mother. It's legal in Canada, since a baby doesn't have human rights until it has left the mother... alive. It's pretty terrible.

 

[Shining Arcanine]

There's a been a few statements in this thread that make me want to come to the speaker's houses and disfigure them horribly. But I won't mention names, as that would just escalate things. *twitches*

Anyway.

I believe abortion is a private matter between a woman and her doctor. It -must- be available, especially in rape/incest cases, or situations in which the mother might die giving birth, among others. Just because someone made a poor choice when they were a teen doesn't mean they should be doomed to a life of working crappy jobs because they dropped out of high school to support the child of someone who's long since run off. And sure, they could always give the child up for adoption, but there's a shame factor to consider there.

"We Impregnate, You Don't Decide" was the way it was in the US until 1973. Just think, women are now in charge of what happens with their bodies! *shock and amazment!!*

Think about it, girls...if you were raped, if your boyfriend pressures you into doing it (this happens a lot more than you'd think...and if you're thinking, "F that, I'm too smart to let that happen", I hope to Cheese you're correct), and you get pregnant... well. Let's consider our options: in the rape case, you are now not only a victim, but you're having some ba$tard's kid. You can wait nine months and have the kid, then put it up for adoption...but in the meantime, you've got to keep trying to go to school and endure all the rumours and pitying looks. Or you can have an abortion, quickly and quietly. Same situation with the 'accident' scenario, only in that go around you've gained a reputation as a...woman of questionable repute. *shrugs* It's your choice, I guess.

And to the guys, I don't expect you to understand at all, but if you can, I salute you. Others, you can stand on your moral soapbox and yell until you're blue in the face, but ultimately it's not your choice to make. And although this will make my hands twitch convulsively in the direction of my chainsaw, it's what you believe and I can't change that. Just don't be the rapist or the @sshole boyfriend and we'll get along fine.

So...yes...in a perfect world, no one would have sex until they're ready to support the possibility of offspring, but the world is far from perfect. Nothing is ever going to stop teenagers from having it, education reduces the statistics but some people are just stupid. Even adults sometimes make errors in that particular field...no form of birth control is 100% effective, save abstinence.

No one is in charge of a woman's reproductive organs except herself. End of story.

The child is God's child and it has as much right to life as you do.

Btw, how would you like it if you were aborted? Hey, you are still alive, an abortion of you is still possible. All you have do is take a big metal object and bash your skull in. Not a pleasant thought, is it? Well you are doing that to another human being when you have an abortion and in the end, you will have to answer to God. He gets angry pretty easily considering what he was going to do to the Israelites until Moses (a person who God was still happy with) asked God not to. I wouldn't want to have to speak to him regarding breaking the 5th commandment as you can go to Heck for that. However, I'm sure he will think you're "its my body and I can do with it as I please" atitude and not sentence you to spend the rest of eternity (it never ends) in a blazing inferno with nothing to do but get angrier and angrier at yourself for being ignorant while you were alive.

Anyway, I believe I said I'd close the topic if anyone started cursing and I'm a person of my word. *Closed*

Edit: Btw, here is something to think about, what if the person you are killing is the person God has chosen to cure a diease that would wipe out the entire human race? You'll have to answer to God for killing 6.2 Billion people... Ouch.

 

[Arcanine]

There is not a big reason why this thread should be closed. Unless you put in it the 9th rule of PC "Political and sexual topics do not belong here. For that matter, try to avoid these issues in posts as well." (if it is that then the thread was should not have been started in the first place). But I will reopen it, and if there is any flame to another member in here then it will be closed and not reopened.
*Open*

 

[^^NICK^^ v.2.0]

Thanks. Well, anymore opinions?

 

[Frostweaver]

......

*wants to thank Arcanine for considering about his PM ^_^*
*thinks that this isn't "sexual" as 3 of the 4 Smods posted in this before and didn't close it then... therefore meaning that they must have considered it alright when they first look at this topic*
*wonders if "neutral" and "depends on situation" are the same thing...*

 

[^^NICK^^ v.2.0]

no, because when I put neutral, i meant for it to mean not having an opinion. And Depends...means you have an opinion

 

[John Denver]

I don't believe in Abortion, never have never will...

There is never an instance where you should use abortion.

What if you get raped?

Well then kill the rapist, not the baby

What if the mother is too young and she can't handle having a baby

Then she couldn't handle having sex either, be she apparently chose to.

It's a womans body! She can abort it if she wants to!

I agree, if a woman wants to kill herself than have at it. The baby should be left alone though.

Hmm, i think it's so HORRIBLE how some states don't give the fathers any say in the matter. It's their child just as much as it is the mothers!

And by the way, if there is even a HINT of flaming then any of the S-Mods (including me) will prolly close this thread immediately...

BOO ya!