What do you [players] really want a hack to be?

[Zeffy]

I want a hack to be playable. I want it to have a good sense of grammar and a not so vague storyline. I want everything to be playable. I couldn't care less about the graphics as long as it meets my conditions.

 

[U.Flame]

I like hacks with more realism and maturity. Cussing isn't absolutly needed but you can't expect a dramatic moment with someone saying "Dang it all to heck"

I like hacks with a great story. Like the Ruby Destiny series. Unique maps are also important to not bore players, but opinions differ.
And don't exaggerate on the features. "New Maps, New Region, New scripts, New Characters" is just stating the obvious.

 

[TheFangedHunter]

I want a hack to be where instead of being a pokemon trainer you could be anything.
Like a gym leader, breeder even a pokemart person.

 

[.com]

Don't follow what other people want, because it'll just make what you do less enjoyable.
Going by what other people want isn't worth it, plus overrated.
You'll just end up with an uninspired POS.
Just be creative, even if it's a remake or mod. It's definitely possible in any situation.

The PC mentality on what makes a "good" hack is inconsistent, so just go with what you want.
Everyone looks for different things, so why try to fit one person's mold?

Before a guide can be made we need some decent hackers, which currently are non-existent. Everyone who was a "good"`hacker has long since left.

you sound like an elitist jackass.

 

[NintendoBoyDX]

I like hacks with more realism and maturity. Cussing isn't absolutly needed but you can't expect a dramatic moment with someone saying "Dang it all to heck"
I like hacks with a great story. Like the Ruby Destiny series. Unique maps are also important to not bore players, but opinions differ.

After reading this and other opinions like it, i thought I should say...

Well...no matter how much realism or maturity you add, no matter how great your story is(unlike ruby destiny which had a terrible story and was a terrible hack), no matter how much minor swearing you add, it's not going to make pokemon more fun. That's the whole point of hacking, to make pokemon more fun.

Let's take a closer look...what's the problem with pokemon in general? It lacks fun, it lacks good gameplay. The two most broad components that go into a game are gameplay and storyline. To fix pokemon, you must make the gameplay better. Sure a good storyline adds to a game(as long as it's good) but rewriting the storyline of a game with bad gameplay doesn't help anything. To prove this, look at storyline and gameplay. Can a game exist with gameplay only? Yes, example is tetris. Can a game exist with a storyline only? No, if you have storyline and no gameplay that would be a movie.
Well then...how do you fix gameplay? It's basically impossible to fix everything in a rom hack do to it's limiting nature, but you can improve some things at the very least. For example, fix imbalances in pokemon stats?

In conclusion: To fix pokemon, you need to make it fun. To make it fun, you need to fix gameplay. Like I said the most that could honestly be done in a hack is improve a few of the flaws of Pokemon... And it's not about the fame when you do a rom hack, it's about fixing the game. Hopefully it all makes sense... [Players] want a hack to make pokemon more fun, and improve it's flaws.

 

[The Noob Hacker]

After reading this and other opinions like it, i thought I should say...

Well...no matter how much realism or maturity you add, no matter how great your story is(unlike ruby destiny which had a terrible story and was a terrible hack), no matter how much minor swearing you add, it's not going to make pokemon more fun. That's the whole point of hacking, to make pokemon more fun.

Let's take a closer look...what's the problem with pokemon in general? It lacks fun, it lacks good gameplay. The two most broad components that go into a game are gameplay and storyline. To fix pokemon, you must make the gameplay better. Sure a good storyline adds to a game(as long as it's good) but rewriting the storyline of a game with bad gameplay doesn't help anything. To prove this, look at storyline and gameplay. Can a game exist with gameplay only? Yes, example is tetris. Can a game exist with a storyline only? No, if you have storyline and no gameplay that would be a movie.
Well then...how do you fix gameplay? It's basically impossible to fix everything in a rom hack do to it's limiting nature, but you can improve some things at the very least. For example, fix imbalances in pokemon stats?

In conclusion: To fix pokemon, you need to make it fun. To make it fun, you need to fix gameplay. Like I said the most that could honestly be done in a hack is improve a few of the flaws of Pokemon... And it's not about the fame when you do a rom hack, it's about fixing the game. Hopefully it all makes sense... [Players] want a hack to make pokemon more fun, and improve it's flaws.

Although I agree with some of your points I must disagree nonetheless. You say that a game is all about gameplay, and that a game can exist without a story. Bith true, however, this is Pokemon we are talking about. And what is Pokemon? An RPG. And half of an RPG is the story.

Now sure if you have a good story but bad gameplay it isn't a good game. But what if we did it your way and had no story but good gameplay? It would be a game comprised of a neverending series of battles. Sure you can fix stat inbalences and make the metagame absoultly perfect, but what then? The game would get real boring, real fast.

The fact of the matter is that this is a ROM hack and that you don't have absoute freedom. So in order to make a good, original game you can't focus on improving one feature, instead you must make improvements to all features, and add all you can with the limited creative leeway you have. In the end, in a Pokemon game, what is a good story without good gameplay, in the same respect, what is good gameplay without a story to carry it.

You may want to argue that a story is completly unescessary when gameplay is good, which, to an extent, is true. But such things only apply in certiain scenerios. Let's look at you example, Tetris. Tetris is a puzzle game, and puzzles don't have stories. Another example, Pac-Man only exists to get high scores, thus, a story is unneded. However in Pokemon, a story is needed to keep the gameplay fresh, otherwise it is pointless leveling up.

TL;DR: Improving gameplay is important, but in an RPG such as Pokemon, a story is needed to drive the gameplay foward.

PS: Fixing stat imbalances really wont improve the game an awful amount. It would be really hard to notice that Farfecht'd can take a few more hits than normal. If you ask me, making the gameplay more fun is a matter of making it playable and challenging. I want to be able to have fun leveling Pokemon up, meaning that it isn't slow-paced, but also not too fast. Also, I want a challenge. But people take that the wrong way. They think challenge = give trainers Pokemon that are ten levels higher than your own, it doesn't. Part of it is having trainers have higher leveled Pokemon than yourself, but only slightly so. Mostly it means giving them good Pokemon with diverse types and challeging movesets.

 

[NintendoBoyDX]

Oh, I think you misunderstood me. I didn't say put no story. In fact, I said a good story can add to the game nicely. The truth is, the gameplay must be good enough to be fun on it's own, without a story. Then a good storyline complements it(important that I say this, because I do enjoy a good storyline if gameplay is good). Still a game should not need storyline to drive it forward. The thing is though, if you did have no storyline exploration and battling would still be fun, because if the gameplay is good, it should be fun even if you battle a lot. The problem that your thinking how boring battles are because current battling is boring. If battling was fun, it shouldn't be boring to battle those numerous times.

Sorry again, I wasn't clear... I only meant that fixing stat imbalances is one of many, many, different ways to improve the game. It is one aspect of improving battling :) It was just a suggestion, really, there are so many things to fix that I couldn't name them all. Also, to achieve a fun game(in general, not just hacking) the player needs to have freedom to go where he/she wants. Not just be forced to follow one path. The point of gaming is not to win, it is to have fun. Literally, if battling was really fun then battling all the trainers with no storyline should be fun. From there, adding a storyline adds to that.

It is absolutely true that romhacking is very limited. You have very little freedom to do everything you need to make a great game. That's why focus has to be on improving all possible aspects. I completely agree.

Finally, I do agree that making trainers pokemon 10 levels higher does not make it fun. It makes it hard, but not in a challenging way. You're not trying to figure out a strategy to beat the pokemon, the player would just sit there for hours grinding to the right level. To make battling very fun it must be recreated in a way that takes mainly skill from the trainer and not pokemon level and the strongest BP move to win(completely unpractical to attempt this in a hack).

 

[The Noob Hacker]

Indeed. As I said, half of an RPG is story, the other is gameplay. Both must correlate and stand firm.

 

[shinyabsol1]

I don't think that it is necessary to make a "guide" for what players want hacks to be. In my opinion, If hackers just tried to make everyone happy then the games would lose their originality. Come up with your own ideas as surprise everyone, don't follow rules on what or what not to do. If you don't like a hack because of certain details, then big deal! Play another or just appreciate them for what they are, not what they could be.

 

[NintendoBoyDX]

It's not a guide :P The topic was "what do players really want a hack to be?" I answered that simply, they want pokemon to be made more fun by fixing the gameplay. I made no specifics at all as to what or what can't be changee to make gameplay more fun, that's the hackers job. That's what would differentiate hacks. : D

 

[shinyabsol1]

It's not a guide The topic was "what do players really want a hack to be?" I answered that simply, they want pokemon to be made more fun by fixing the gameplay. I made no specifics at all as to what or what can't be changee to make gameplay more fun, that's the hackers job. That's what would differentiate hacks. : D

My post was not directed at what you said, I was commenting on earlier posts that gave specific details of what hackers want, such as "no legendary pokemon".

 

[NintendoBoyDX]

Ahh ok. Once again, I agree that specifics are up to the hacker/game developer. It's not like taking out the legendary pokemon makes the game more fun...

 

[Quilava's Master]

Yeah I don't get why everyone ran with the whole no legendaries thing. What I was saying is that it's not unlikely to battle a trainer with a legenedary pokemon. It adds realism and difficulty to the hack.

 

[U.Flame]

After reading this and other opinions like it, i thought I should say...

Well...no matter how much realism or maturity you add, no matter how great your story is(unlike ruby destiny which had a terrible story and was a terrible hack), no matter how much minor swearing you add, it's not going to make pokemon more fun. That's the whole point of hacking, to make pokemon more fun.

First, opinions differ, so people (like me) actually can think a good storyline makes it more fun.

Second, your comment about Ruby Destiny seemed unnecessary.

Third, I didn't say gameplay wasn't important, I said a good story is very important in my opinion.

 

[NintendoBoyDX]

It's not a matter of opinion. I'm not going to argue this. But if story is that important then watch a movie.

 

[Fabi_ash]

In general, if I see these things in a videogame, it becomes one of my favourites:

1)A good and involving story.
Players should feel like the charachter they control and should start to feel the twists of the plot only once the story writer wants.

2)Good music.
You can't completely perceive the ambience a situation creates, but music helps.

3)Playability.
Controls have to be comfortable and the difficulty has to be hard and human.
I like there are frustrating moments which can be overcame with logic or few minutes of application, but I hate when you need only luck or you must do a reasoning that only the creator of the game can do.

 

[Neo Duality]

I want to see a hack break away from Nintendo as much as possible. Since most hackers stick to GameFreak/Nintendo's dogma as much as possible, we really don't get any original hacks. We have the same old "legendary/evil team" crap rehashed with new Pokemon and worse grammar. If I was given control over the Pokemon world, I would completely revamp it instead of following these unwritten rules that limit the creativity of all hackers.

 

[Vrai]

It's not a matter of opinion. I'm not going to argue this. But if story is that important then watch a movie.

Story is not a matter of opinion? Yeesh. I haven't heard such a contradictory statement in ages.

Story is entirely opinionated, imo. You like the story or you don't. You could even take it to the point that you like having certain story styles (i.e. Nintendo-style!) as opposed to other kinds. And there are significant differences between story-heavy movies and story-heavy hacks. See, I've always been of the mind that playing a first-person game brings you closer to the characters/people/whatever that your avatar is interacting with. If something happens to one of the ones that you've grown attached to, then you'll have more of an emotional reaction than if you were just watching a movie and the hero's girlfriend got kidnapped. Honestly, everything about ROM Hacking is an opinion. You like it or you don't.

As far as the original question, I'd have to agree with .com. It's more important for you to like what you're doing than for everyone else to like it.

 

[NintendoBoyDX]

Errr....No, that is not what I said. Try reading all the posts, not just the last one. Knew I shouldn't have said anything, oh well, not my problem.

 

[Vrai]

Errr....No, that is not what I said. Try reading all the posts, not just the last one. Knew I shouldn't have said anything, oh well, not my problem.

That is what you said, unless I'm misreading. And yes, I did read all of it. I only chose to address that last statement... :(

One would assume it's your problem because you said it. :x

Anyway, I see your point that gaming should be fun within the actual gameplay itself. Yeah, Pokemon is fun to just go run around and battle random stuff and train your Pokemon and the whole idea of the gameplay is solid. However, I don't see what flaws (if any at all!) could/should be fixed to improve the gameplay. In my opinion, hacking is not to improve the gameplay so much, although you could try to change it to something more of your liking. I think that the gameplay of Pokemon is already so well done that basically all you should need to be changing in a hack is the storyline.

Plus, I think the definition of "fun" in gameplay really changes based on who you are. You can't fix the game to meet the needs of so many people - some prefer open world environments, some prefer a closed route that they have to follow. You just can't satisfy everyone at once.