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What if religion never existed?

If there wasn't religion then I wouldn't have gotten slapped by an Arab kid when I was in Jerusalem a few days ago. I wouldn't have gotten stoned in Jaffa. Arabs wouldn't death stare me in paris.

Why do Muslims hate me so much? Because my family is obviously Jewish? ridiculous. I'm atheist and these orthodox jews and muslims want to kill me. Religion to me is just a way that the ancient ppl described how things got here... I say let science advance.

I DO NOT MEAN ANY OFFENSE TO MUSLIMS OR JEWS HERE, BUT THE ORTHODOX ONES I MET IN ISRAEL AND FRANCE WERE MEAN

Keep on hackin'
~RHIOne
 
How would you feel?
Good :) A little tired though, I just woke up. Too much Malibu last night urgh. that was the question, right?

Considering religion's part in your life so far (whether through its presence or the lack thereof), what would be different?
lmfao not much. I probably wouldn't have gotten a bible on my birthday from my neighbor friend. Maybe I would have gotten something I wouldn't have lost within the week..... and something I could understand...... Like a skateboard.

If applicable, where else would you put your faith(s)?
Else? Well uh I believe in my friends, family, and the past.

How do you think society would be different?
There would be a lot less wars. Maybe everyone would get along better.

What do you think would have developed more, had it not been for religious influence / pressure / stigma?
Science. But then again, half the stuff that's keeping potentially important research from being done is just human conscience.

What wouldn't we have?
...Churches.

What has religion done for us thus far?
Start fights. No, it gives people a sense of belonging in the world, and it makes them happy and all that. But really, it does start a lot of fights.

Do you think religion would develop today?
It's been pretty set in its ways for... centuries now, I doubt it'll change. Ever :/

Do you think religion is inevitable?
Depends, people need something to believe in, and something to blame things on, and someone to sacrifice their chickens to. But others are just like "meh'.

Do you think religion has a correlation with present-day morals (even if not all people are religious)?
Not present, oh jeez no, not present. I mean, go to a Christian school. Good little well behaved Christian school girls who do their "bible study" every night... Morals. Yes. But I won't lump everyone together in Christian schools, a lot of people do follow the rules.


I'M NOT ANTI RELIGION, I just question things. If you go to church every Sunday, good for you, I wish I had your dedication.
 
I'm not even religious (although I am decidedly Theistic) and I can tell you that faith and science are rarely at odds with one another, and if religion never existed, then science would probably have advanced even slower, if it even emerged at all.

You see, science and religion both emerged as a result of humanity attempting to understand the world around them. Without the curious spirit that led to the emergence of religion, science could also never appear.

I fully believe that faith and science aren't contradictory at all, and this has been proven several times throughout history. Isaac Newton once wrote that "Science is the pursuit to understand God, not to erase Him from from relevance." and the Big Bang Theory was proposed to the scientific community by a Jesuit priest.

Don't even get me started on the outdated idea that religion is the core of every war. With the exception of the Crusades, the Al-Qaeda attacks, and possibly WWII, every war in history had political or economic reasons behind it. >_>
 
There was never any chance of that. Religion is the natural outcome of people who desire power meeting people who don't know how the universe works. There were and are plenty of both throughout mankind's history. For religion to not have developed, mankind would have to be inherently different than it is.
 
I'll try, but history is so inundated with religion and it's effects (even putting aside Biblical history, which for me is like wondering what the present would be like with no past) it's hard for me to comprehend.

Also, can somebody tell Gymnotide he can stop blocking my posts now? << No, really.

How would you feel?
I feel I wouldn't exist as the person I am now.

Considering religion's part in your life so far (whether through its presence or the lack thereof), what would be different?
Everything. Absolutely everything. I'd probably end up some apathetic, superficial person living at home until he's forty-something. Assuming the parents even know each other and I had a place to live.

If applicable, where else would you put your faith(s)?
My own ability to survive, or somebody else's (baseless) obligation to help me do so.

How do you think society would be different?
It's hard to imagine the scope of that. I'd imagine there would be more abuse, however you want to apply that, and little-to-no reverence for other people.

What do you think would have developed more, had it not been for religious influence / pressure / stigma?
Not science. Many influential scientists and a vast amount of their pseudo-scientific forebears based everything off of their religious beliefs ranging from ancient mysticism to Judaism and Christianity. Were there nothing beyond ourselves to look for, why would we bother looking?

More feel-good stuff would probably develop. Whatever that would mean.

What wouldn't we have? What has religion done for us thus far?
I'll say it again, it would be a different world. What we have, we would lose.

Do you think religion would develop today?
If by this you mean, if there were no religion at all in today's society would it develop anyways, I think yes. Slowly, gradually. People are always looking for something, aren't they? A brand-new kind of something to look for would at the least make money. Assuming we had that. Scientology looks to be some form of evidence of that, at least in my mind.

Do you think religion is inevitable?
In reality? Yep.

Do you think religion has a correlation with present-day morals (even if not all people are religious)?
Yes. It's as simple as that. People are derivative. They latch on to others' ideas, and have a desire to see the world change in accordance with what they think. It's been this way for ages, and now that we're standing on the ideas, I don't think they'll ever totally dissipate.
 
You can block posts? o_o
I'm confused.

How would you feel?
If I was aware that there was another dimension where this so-called "religion" ran rampant, then I would wonder about its facets. Religion piques a good point of study--it embodies a fundamentally human idea and a good debate-starter. The idea of belief is one of interesting means, and one only characteristic to "higher" cognition.

Considering religion's part in your life so far (whether through its presence or the lack thereof), what would be different?
I would probably have much less interest in the liberal arts. Seeing as how half my basis for grounding my studies in Classical Civilization is due to their religion. Mythology is religion, and mythology is beautiful.

If applicable, where else would you put your faith(s)?
I am atheistic-irreligious. As of now, I already put my faiths in mankind a lot already, despite its (apparent) ugliness. I love the things the mind can do--the horrors it can achieve--the shapes it can fabricate--. That won't change.

How do you think society would be different?
If society could ever reach a point of scientific interest without first detesting religion, then it would be much more at peace, I feel. It's not what you think I mean; it's a bit difficult to explain.

What do you think would have developed more, had it not been for religious influence / pressure / stigma?
Disregarding casualties of religious fervor, I believe that science, above all, would be foremost. The thing about science wasn't that it was aimed to contradict religion. It was created to parallel it. Hesiod's Theogony was written to explain the world's cosmology in theistic terms; the first sciences did none other than provide a second option just for the sake of synthesis. Medicine is also a prime example of science's relationship with religion. Hippocrates didn't write to slander the gods, but to harmonize with them: he bids his servitude to Apollo and Hygeiea in his Oath. Though his science was "incorrect" in modern terms, he only sought understanding, to help mankind. This is honor. If the gods did not exist, he would have written the same things.

Though I digress--

Cosmology is an interesting thing. It's a shame that so many people disregard it, brand it as outlandish. The Native Americans had a different cosmology for each tribe--a testament to the idea that all belief is relative. However, they still made peace with one another, understanding that no one religion is more "correct" than another so long as one believes hard enough. It's a shame that belief has turned into such an ugly thing today.

What wouldn't we have? What has religion done for us thus far?
If we start from the beginning, quell all thoughts that the sun is some higher form, stomp out any ideas of divinity (and thereby supremacy), we would have a very strange place. We would have tribes, but no chieftains. We would have technology, but no civilization. There would be no stigma, no shame. Fear, but not in the actions. We would be naturalists.

Do you think religion would develop today?
Yes.

Do you think religion is inevitable?
Religion is a byproduct of cognition.

Do you think religion has a correlation with present-day morals (even if not all people are religious)?
I believe that religion exerts certain pressures, which emphasize certain values. Therefore, yes; however, that is only to say that religion shifts already existing morals and not to say that morals come from religion. Morals come from somewhere else.
 
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where there are people, there will be religion, and i can't imagine it any other way. religion was built on the human need for explanations to life's mysteries, and without that desperation for answers- that need to explore- it's hard to say where humanity would be in terms of progression. but problems arise when we establish certain answers and stop exploring- people like to make religion out to be the cause of suffering and warfare, but it's not an issue with religion, it's an issue with us.

without the negative aspects of religion, i probably wouldn't have grown up feeling so suffocated, but i'm at a point in my life where i'm surrounded by the encouragement and positivity of spiritual people who aren't under the influence of standardized faith, and i'm comfortable using religious teachings for guidance. without religion in the world, i'm afraid my drive to pursue spiritual enlightenment would be hindered and my methods of doing so askew.
 
How would you feel?
like now! And everybody would, considering it wouldn't ever existed ;P

Considering religion's part in your life so far (whether through its presence or the lack thereof), what would be different?
My first 10 years would be a bit different, I think.

If applicable, where else would you put your faith(s)?
Science, humanity (even if it deludes me often) and myself

How do you think society would be different?
It wouldn't be different. Man would have found something autoritary that could unite the person in the past, and people would have demolished it to create democracy. Peraphs middle age nazism?

What do you think would have developed more, had it not been for religious influence / pressure / stigma?
Maybe science? But everything that's "conservatory" tend to destroy progress.

What wouldn't we have?
some moral views tipycal of religion. for example sexual limitation?

What has religion done for us thus far?
it has given EXCUSES for wars.

Do you think religion is inevitable?
Yes. Man needs something to belive in it. To escape death.

Do you think religion has a correlation with present-day morals (even if not all people are religious)?
As stated above some of them. But others are needed for social convivation.
 
How would you feel?
This:
Spoiler:


Considering religion's part in your life so far (whether through its presence or the lack thereof), what would be different?
Remember how in the 50's they said we'd have flying cars by 2011? Yeah, that.

If applicable, where else would you put your faith(s)?
n/a

How do you think society would be different?
Flying cars, Nanobots, androids, space travel, anti-matter engines, the least CO2 emittions in about 1000 years....ect.

What do you think would have developed more, had it not been for religious influence / pressure / stigma?
Humanity as a social entity. Where's my telepathy and witch powers that allow me to control molocules!

What wouldn't we have?
.....Churches? Religious wackos? No bans on gay marriage?

What has religion done for us thus far?
Slow down progress and make people blind to the simple facts.

Do you think religion would develop today?
How so? I'll need a little more detail.

Do you think religion is inevitable?
Religion, In my opinion, Is a person's way of feeling good about the smallest little thing. "I donated $1 to a religious organisation that fights global warming, After I picked up my child in a gas guzzling SUV and left all the electronics in my house on, Aswell as the fireplace!" (some lady actually said this to me.)
It would be inevitable because of how people like to blame "a higher power" on the crap that goes on in their lives.... (View of a synical sarcastic atheist so please disregard quoting if possible)

Do you think religion has a correlation with present-day morals (even if not all people are religious)? Well all laws are based on religious morals, which themselves are pretty much common sense so... mabye?
 
How would you feel?
I'd feel the same as I would now, but a lot less confused...

Considering religion's part in your life so far (whether through its presence or the lack thereof), what would be different?
I would not have to take an hour out of every Sunday to worship a figure we don't even know exists.

If applicable, where else would you put your faith(s)?
In SCIENCE!

How do you think society would be different?
Society would be a lot more peaceful. There wouldn't be as much discrimination or wars. Also, social classes would probably be more equal. The government would be a democracy, since without religion, the whole Mandate of Heaven/Divine Right concept wouldn't exist.


What do you think would have developed more, had it not been for religious influence / pressure / stigma?
Science. Science and religion thru-out history have been conflicting. If religion had not existed, science would probably be MUCH more advanced.

What wouldn't we have?
Maybe we wouldn't have an idea on "What caused the universe to be created? What was the force behind that?"

What has religion done for us thus far?
All it's done is wasted our time and was a source of death throughout history (Inquisition, Holocaust, etc.).

Do you think religion would develop today?
Possible, but unlikely.

Do you think religion is inevitable?
No.

Do you think religion has a correlation with present-day morals (even if not all people are religious)?
Ok, no. Not even close. Our world is so warped, religious values just do not exist. People are so secular and worldly. There is no religious emphasis, at least in America...
 
From a historical point of view, we'd be a primitive society, the Religious are responsible for holding on to much of our Knowledge through the dark ages. We definitely wouldn't be a Utopia if that knowledge was kept either, ars would continue due to the love of Power, and the need to hold onto life.

All that would change is the time people have spent going to church, and worshiping their god(/s).


How would you feel?
Pretty much the same as I do now.

Considering religion's part in your life so far (whether through its presence or the lack thereof), what would be different?
Nope, I'm agnostic. I do think that Agnosticism wouldn't exist though, due to the lack of anyone that believes in a god.

If applicable, where else would you put your faith(s)?
Science.

How do you think society would be different?
Like I said, we'd only lack the time spent going to church, and worshiping.

What do you think would have developed more, had it not been for religious influence / pressure / stigma?
(Assuming we didn't lose all of our knowledge during the dark ages.) There'd be more people who accept Science, and we'd probably be a bit more progressive.

What wouldn't we have? What has religion done for us thus far?
(Once again ignoring the dark ages.)

Do you think religion would develop today?
I'm almost certain it would have eventually come along, but this ignores the question of what would happen if religion didn't exist.

Do you think religion is inevitable?
Not inevitable, i believe it's just a regular part of human psychology. It's very, very unlikely that we wouldn't have religion, but like all things, it's possible.

Do you think religion has a correlation with present-day morals (even if not all people are religious)?
Parents teach their kids their morals, and the kids can be influenced by outside forces. So yes.
 
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Gymnotide said:
ITT: Gymnotide, trying to waste your time.
And trying to incite cyber war.

How would you feel? Considering religion's part in your life so far (whether through its presence or the lack thereof), what would be different? If applicable, where else would you put your faith(s)? How do you think society would be different? What do you think would have developed more, had it not been for religious influence / pressure / stigma? What wouldn't we have? What has religion done for us thus far? Do you think religion would develop today? Do you think religion is inevitable? Do you think religion has a correlation with present-day morals (even if not all people are religious)?

I don't want anyone to play the war / prejudice card in here, though.

And, hey! Let's take a quick moment here and recognize that I am talking about all religions here, including but not limited to monotheistic, polytheistic, atheistic, cult-based, superstition-based, ritual, spiritual, ancient, anti-, pseudo-, and scientific religions. *cough* Atheism is neither irreligiousness nor secularism.
edit sry this was missed so I made it bigger.

Oh, and, do yourself a favor and answer all the questions.
Click to expand...

With all due (and sincere) respect to you, I essentially disagree with the approach of your questions.

I say this primarily because your question(s) assume that "Religion" is a just one concept, or it is a collective lump of all the religions out there, which are essentially the same. That is of course sweeping generalization, each religious concept is different, and we cant paint all of them with the same brush.

Your intention might not have been such a generalization, but the words came out the wrong way. And resultantly, the answers to your questions wouldnt be useful either. For instance, in response to your question: "What has religion done for us thus far?" a poster wrote: "Slow down progress and make people blind to the simple facts."

This might be his/her take on a certain concept of religion he/she believes in, but the answer is pointed at all religions simultaneously. As if all religions are just one concept, and their results/effects would be similar.

I dont want to say much more on this issue, due to some personal reservations against internet debates. But to give you the gist of my pov: my religion to me is essentially a worldview, the way in which I perceive this universe. It is the spectacle through which and by which I observe the universe and make deductions about, well, everything. So to ask a question like "what if religions didn't exist?" is kind of like "what if the universe weren't the way it is?" I believe everyone can notice the ambiguity in the nature of this question, and owing to this vague nature, I don't have a response to this.
 
Hassan_Abdillah said:
With all due (and sincere) respect to you, I essentially disagree with the approach of your questions.

I say this primarily because your question(s) assume that "Religion" is a just one concept, or it is a collective lump of all the religions out there, which are essentially the same. That is of course sweeping generalization, each religious concept is different, and we cant paint all of them with the same brush.

Your intention might not have been such a generalization, but the words came out the wrong way. And resultantly, the answers to your questions wouldnt be useful either. For instance, in response to your question: "What has religion done for us thus far?" a poster wrote: "Slow down progress and make people blind to the simple facts."

This might be his/her take on a certain concept of religion he/she believes in, but the answer is pointed at all religions simultaneously. As if all religions are just one concept, and their results/effects would be similar.

I dont want to say much more on this issue, due to some personal reservations against internet debates. But to give you the gist of my pov: my religion to me is essentially a worldview, the way in which I perceive this universe. It is the spectacle through which and by which I observe the universe and make deductions about, well, everything. So to ask a question like "what if religions didn't exist?" is kind of like "what if the universe weren't the way it is?" I believe everyone can notice the ambiguity in the nature of this question, and owing to this vague nature, I don't have a response to this.
Click to expand...

My intention was not to conglomerate all world religions. As a budding ancient history scholar, I understand full well the diversity of religions and their subjectivity to their faith-groups and time periods. Admittedly, the thread went nowhere near where I was aiming for it to go, but it did spark some debate.

What I intended to make a point of was the idea of religion as a thought-process, rather than its actual implications, effects, consequences, etc.--not that all religions do the same, but all religions stem from the human psyche. With the questions I wanted to draw in some idea of personal conceptions of religion as well as its overall effect on society as a blatantly human ideology. Again, admittedly, this doesn't really belong on this forum at all--perhaps it should be shipped off to a theology-based one, but I won't do this any time soon.

I lost interest in the thread as soon as the mini-flame war happened on the first page, but if what you quoted was in fact said in the thread, then I am deeply disappointed.
 
What I intended to make a point of was the idea of religion as a thought-process, rather than its actual implications, effects, consequences, etc.--not that all religions do the same, but all religions stem from the human psyche. With the questions I wanted to draw in some idea of personal conceptions of religion as well as its overall effect on society as a blatantly human ideology. Again, admittedly, this doesn't really belong on this forum at all--perhaps it should be shipped off to a theology-based one, but I won't do this any time soon.
Click to expand...

Let's not get disheartened, at least help me understand your perspective : )

With the questions I wanted to draw in some idea of personal conceptions of religion as well as its overall effect on society as a blatantly human ideology.
Click to expand...

Correct me if Im wrong, "personal conception about religion" as in the diversity of public opinion about religion? Well that's what this thread essentially culminated, people spoke their heart out about how religion is useless. And this thread has demonstrated to us that when people speak their heart out, the thinker in them kinda falls by the roadside.

Would you be a bit more clearer on what you expected from this thread?

Also, this statement strikes me as a bit vague as well:

all religions stem from the human psyche.
Click to expand...

cheers
 
I imagine we'd still find reasons to kill each other, but perhaps there'd be a little less bloodshed.
Still, I don't think it'd take getting rid of ALL religion. Just the Abrahamic patriarchal monotheistic ones.
I'm with Gore Vidal on this point:

The great unmentionable evil at the center of our culture is monotheism. From a barbaric Bronze Age text known as the Old Testament, three anti-human religions have evolved — Judaism, Christianity, Islam. These are sky-god religions. They are, literally, patriarchal — God is the Omnipotent Father — hence the loathing of women for 2,000 years in those countries afflicted by the sky-god and his earthly male delegates. The sky-god is a jealous god, of course. He requires total obedience from everyone on earth, as he is in place not for just one tribe but for all creation. Those who would reject him must be converted or killed for their own good. Ultimately, totalitarianism is the only sort of politics that can truly serve the sky-god's purpose.
 
In many cases religion was only some random justification for fighting, not the actual cause of it. Other political/social differences probably had a greater effect.

How would you feel?
I don't know, probably the same.

Considering religion's part in your life so far (whether through its presence or the lack thereof), what would be different?
We wouldn't have obnoxious hardcore atheists or religious zealots. The world would be a better place.

If applicable, where else would you put your faith(s)?
In humanity. Nowhere.

How do you think society would be different?
We probably wouldn't have such a big split between liberals and conservatives. But that's one thing. The entire political/social/economical things of the world would probably be completely different.

What do you think would have developed more, had it not been for religious influence / pressure / stigma?
Medical technology.

What wouldn't we have?
An easy cop-out for explaining life.

What has religion done for us thus far?
Short answer, nothing substantially beneficial. Long answer is too long.

Do you think religion would develop today?
What?

Do you think religion is inevitable?
Yes. People just have to find an explanation for everything and religion supposedly explains the unexplainable by being an unexplainable explanation. Ha.

Do you think religion has a correlation with present-day morals (even if not all people are religious)?
It certainly affects peoples' way of thinking. Being non-religious or religious doesn't make anyone less or more moral. The moral code of the non-religious would obviously have advanced more.
 
The great unmentionable evil at the center of our culture is monotheism. From a barbaric Bronze Age text known as the Old Testament, three anti-human religions have evolved — Judaism, Christianity, Islam. These are sky-god religions. They are, literally, patriarchal — God is the Omnipotent Father — hence the loathing of women for 2,000 years in those countries afflicted by the sky-god and his earthly male delegates. The sky-god is a jealous god, of course. He requires total obedience from everyone on earth, as he is in place not for just one tribe but for all creation. Those who would reject him must be converted or killed for their own good. Ultimately, totalitarianism is the only sort of politics that can truly serve the sky-god's purpose.
Click to expand...

Trouble with most intellectuals these days: they talk about things they have no idea about.

I respect Gore Vidal, but this above quote just made me realize that these people are as prone to mistakes and quick judgments as pretty much anyone. Passing comments on women's rights in this or that so-called "religious" country is easy, but actually looking at the scriptures, and to get into the jurisprudence issues to get the idea about women's liberty in religion, or looking at the issue of treatment of non-believers etc, taking that high road is substantially difficult.
 
How would you feel?

I would be the same person and though I would have probably ate beef more often, I'm vegan / vegetarian now (vegan at home, vegetarian when going out, for the sake of convinence) so yeah.

Considering religion's part in your life so far (whether through its presence or the lack thereof), what would be different?

A rich and fulfilling childhood would be lost to me.

If applicable, where else would you put your faith(s)?

All religion has a very important part in society. They all teach us something different. It's important to diversify your knowledge even if you may not have faith for the sake of being a better person.

How do you think society would be different?

We would be more rational.

What do you think would have developed more, had it not been for religious influence / pressure / stigma?

Rational thinking, monoculturalism (since we're essentially the same), science, acceptance of one another.

What wouldn't we have?

Philosophy (or it wouldn't be as deep as it is now), mythology (with the rapid advancement of science, at the year 2011, mythology would be near-eradicated).

What has religion done for us thus far?

Stunted science, improved the rate at which we are destroying our earth (due to denial of science.)

Do you think religion would develop today?

Buddhism.

Do you think religion is inevitable?

Yes. Religion is a defense mechanism to justify our actions.

Do you think religion has a correlation with present-day morals (even if not all people are religious)?

Yes. Love thy neighbour. The idea of peace. Theres many others, but my brain just farted so I'll leave it at that.
 
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