What will happen to Ubers?

[Rhymed]

Ill keep this open on the basis it doesnt break down and become overun with logical fallacies. So lets keep it that way.

As for Arceus, the thing is really hard to stop. Im mostly concerned with what the extremekiller will do. Its bulky as hell, gets recover and a massively powerful priority STAB in the form of Extremespeed move, the combination of this effectively nulls pretty much all revenge killers (Apart from possibly scarf Dialga, but i really doubt that can OHKO). I guess a combo of Giratina/Lugia and a steel wall would in theory beat it, but a crit from shadow claw OHKO's (high chance btw) the aformentioned psychic/ghosts and the steel walls have to watch out for overheat. Which again is something else Arceus has, extreme versistility.

On the other hand however i guess it would make a good counter to some threatening pokemon such as Darkrai and Rayquaza via using its countering utility set and would thus make both stall AND offense even more viable which i guess is a positive thing ?

I dont know, i would like to see it tested later down the line but its far from being a priority in terms of importance. Im on the fence with it atm, so yeah.

Mew is a VERY shakey counter stricken, it has a high chance to get OHKO's with shadow claw with sr up (this is with max hp/max def and a + def nature).

Does the extreme killer even have recover? if it does it has its walls, shadow claw or not, giratina walls it, same with forretress, jirachi and scizor, which are quite common as utility pokemon in ubers. the metagame won't be centralized it. there's a kyogre on nearly every ubers team, but the metagame hasn't formed around that, it formed around a multitude of threats. the addition of arceus may change the metagame a little, but not drastically.

 

[Dark Azelf]

Does the extreme killer even have recover? if it does it has its walls, shadow claw or not, giratina walls it, same with forretress, jirachi and scizor, which are quite common as utility pokemon in ubers. the metagame won't be centralized it. there's a kyogre on nearly every ubers team, but the metagame hasn't formed around that, it formed around a multitude of threats. the addition of arceus may change the metagame a little, but not drastically.

I think i worded that kinda badly, i meant in general with recover, not specifically the extreme killer. In that respect the extreme killer is easier to deal with since it doesnt have recover.

Jirachi is an awful counter to the extreme killer tbh, it gets nailed by SD LO eq. It OHKO's no matter how defensive the ev spread is. Scizor and Forry have to worry about overheat too. Its probably a matter of moveset syndrome when dealing with it, "if it lacks x move y pokemon walls it".

I guess you are right with the Kyogre thing, but as said im still on the fence with this.

 

[Q-Bone]

I think it's Uber. One is strong enough, but if a team has two (or more) seperate Arceus' it will pose a massive threat, especially with the ability of different types depending on plate.

All I'm trying to point out is that people will eventually manage to get hold of several Arceus' through trade etc., and instead of having a balanced multi-type team, they could have a multi-type team of Ubers by giving each Arceus a desired type. It's a massive advantage that Arceus can change type, that's all I'm stating.

 

[The Hero Without a Name]

I think it's Uber. One is strong enough, but if a team has two (or more) seperate Arceus' it will pose a massive threat, especially with the ability of different types depending on plate.

All I'm trying to point out is that people will eventually manage to get hold of several Arceus' through trade etc., and instead of having a balanced multi-type team, they could have a multi-type team of Ubers by giving each Arceus a desired type. It's a massive advantage that Arceus can change type, that's all I'm stating.

species clause weak
It's also pretty obvious Arceus is gonna be uber, especially since he's already classified as Uber by Smogon (although he's still banned because he hasn't been released yet).

 

[randomspot555]

I think it's Uber. One is strong enough, but if a team has two (or more) seperate Arceus' it will pose a massive threat, especially with the ability of different types depending on plate.

All I'm trying to point out is that people will eventually manage to get hold of several Arceus' through trade etc., and instead of having a balanced multi-type team, they could have a multi-type team of Ubers by giving each Arceus a desired type. It's a massive advantage that Arceus can change type, that's all I'm stating.

From what I've observed, battling communities who use Wi-fi to battle, uber battles are almost never done.

Are different forms of Pokemon like Deoxys fall under species clause? Or can battlers use Deoxys-Attack AND Deoxys-Speed on the same team? I'd assume the same would go for Arceus and it's forms (and we're assuming that the alternate forms would even work on Wi-Fi)

 

[engage']

Smogonsays about Arceus:

Extreme Killer

Silk Scarf / Life Orb Adamant nature.
Moveset
~ Swords Dance
~ ExtremeSpeed
~ Earthquake
~ Shadow Claw / Overheat
252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spe

Of the many options Arceus has, this set is perhaps one of the most fearsome that exist. With Arceus's bulkiness, it should have no problem finding a niche for one Swords Dance, and maybe even two or three. Because it doesn't particularly care about paralysis from Thunder as ExtremeSpeed's priority advantage nullifies the Speed loss (in fact, it is arguably beneficial for this flavor of Arceus to be paralyzed because then it can't be burned and have its attacking ability reduced), one may switch this Arceus on weak attackers such as Blissey with impunity. After even a single Swords Dance, ExtremeSpeed will OHKO all Darkrai, Palkia and Latias unless they invest significantly in Defense, and has a considerable chance of OHKOing the standard 40 HP EVs Mewtwo, assuming that one has at least a Silk Scarf boost. Earthquake smashes Dialga and Metagross into the ground without question. For the last move, Shadow Claw is the preferred choice since it lands super effective hits on the Uber physical walls of Lugia and Giratina; however, Overheat is an acceptable move to annihilate Skarmory and Forretress.
The EV spread for this Arceus provides for a combination of bulkiness and power; Speed isn't necessary as ExtremeSpeed, this set's main attack, will attack before most other offensive moves regardless. Silk Scarf will net ExtremeSpeed 20% more power, a boost that is critical to OHKOing many Uber threats at full health, whereas Life Orb will provide even more power to all of Arceus's attacks at the expense of some health every time it inflicts damage. While Life Orb does contradict this set's bulky sweeper theme, it will allow Arceus to OHKO the standard Mewtwo all the time and often 2HKO Giratina with a Swords Danced Shadow Claw, OHKOing guaranteed with a critical hit.
While this set often rips through half a team or more, it is often advisable to only use ExtremeSpeed when it is needed, as its meager 8 PP is easily expended hitting Lugias and Giratinas that don't care about it; what aggravates the PP problems is that many Ubers, including the afore-mentioned Giratina and Lugia, have the Pressure ability, which doubles PP usage for direct attacks. With its main asset gone, this Arceus is effectively spayed and neutered. As long as one doesn't play in an abnormally poor fashion, however, these statements should never stand to discourage one from taking advantage of the divine terror that this set is.

This should cover the doubts of Arceus.

Personally, I think it should be unbanned because it would be VERY fun to use. XD

 

[d2m]

Personally, I don't think Arceus should ever be unbanned, I also thing some tiers (especially the lower tiers) should also get an extended banlist.

Why? It's quite simple, I view this sort of business as a strategy game where prediction, innovation in teambuilding, and good use of strategy should mean more than picking the 2-3 strongest pokemon and running with them.

If Arceus were unbanned, for example, every other team would be mandated to both have an Arceus of their own and build (most likely multiple) Arceus counters. That means roughly half the team of every ubers team would have to be nearly the same, and I just don't think that's a good thing. Allowing for innovation and unorthodox sets used well in conjunction with good prediction should be able to overcome a "standard" team, but it just plain doesn't in this context.

 

[Rhymed]

Also, smogon are talking about having the species clause as their next "suspect" >.> that would overpower arceus completely.

 

[dotKarma]

Although I am just a beginner to competitive battling, I think that Arceus should stay banned. It can be used to take out almost anything, and like most people have said, teams will have to be based around taking it out.

 

[SmashBrony]

Counters

As versatile as Arceus is, every individual set is entirely counterable. Giratina and Lugia can switch in on an Extreme Killer set very easily with their ridiculous Defense and HP and burn or Whirlwind it away, respectively; additionally, intelligent switching lets them use their Pressure ability to disintegrate its meager 8 ExtremeSpeed PP. Skarmory works similarly to Lugia, although the Overheat version squashes it. However, Skarmory is also capable of dealing with the Ghost Swords Dancer, a distinction shared by the insanely defensive Normal Arceus, which can Will-o-Wisp or inflict serious damage on both species of Arceus. A very defensive Choice Band Groudon can also counter the Swords Dance Ghost Arceus, barring a critical hit from Shadow Claw. While not a counter in adherence to its strictest definition, a Kyogre with Choice Scarf can switch in after it has knocked something out, and then proceed to land a swift OHKO with Water Spout, assuming that it did not suffer from damage beforehand.
All counters to the Swords Dance Ghost Arceus except the Normal Arceus must caution against walking directly into a Calm Mind version, though. Speaking of the Calm Mind versions with an auxiliary attack, Blissey can use Toxic to wear them down if they have Recover; if they have Substitute, that means they lack any recovery whatsoever, which a Calm Minding Blissey can counter by breaking the Substitutes down slowly. If the Calm Mind sweeper is Ghost, then a Normal Arceus will be able to switch in on its relatively weak Ice Beams and use Toxic or Punishment, while a Bug-type sweeper is devastated by Heatran and Ho-oh, which sport excellent resistances to its attacks and do considerable chunks of damage with Fire-type attacks that are likely boosted by sunny weather.
Latias and Latios with Refresh can quickly decimate Fighting Arceus as well as Grass Arceus. Rest and Sleep Talk Giratina is in the same boat as Latias. With its base 120 Special Defense, Giratina does not fear much from either of those, barring a critical hit or freeze from Ice Beam. With Pressure on its side, Giratina can quickly dispose of Ice Beam's PPs, leaving Arceus with absolutely no weapons against Giratina. However, Giratina must be cautious walking into versions with Calm Mind, as they will turn the tables quite easily. Although it fears repeatedly switching into STABed Judgments, Blissey can come into either of Grass or Fighting Arceus, land its own Toxic, Softboiled and switch out before she takes too much from Toxic if Arceus inflicted it on Blissey upon switching in. Dialga and Lugia can handle the Grass variant fairly nicely; the former can Bulk Up and dispatch Arceus with a powered up Dragon Claw, whereas the latter can Toxic and Whirlwind away Grass Arceus out of the battlefield. Metagross finds itself not pressured to switch into Grass Arceus and 2HKO with Choice Band Ice Punch or Meteor Mash. Heracross does not fear any of its attacks, and swiftly disposes of Arceus with Megahorn. Heatran, with its 4x resistance to both Ice and Grass, can quickly demolish Arceus with powerful STABed Choice Specs Flamethrower.
The mono-attacking sets are a bit complicated to counter as it is difficult to inflict any type of lasting damage due to the combination of Substitute and Recover or Rest and Sleep Talk. The Bug-types are the easiest to counter; Giratina with Roar can remove any stat boosts as well as a possible Substitute, while Ho-oh and Heatran sport quadruple resistances to Bug and powerful Fire-type attacks to retaliate with. The Ice-type special sweeper is relatively easy to deal with, as well; the Fire-types still work, and Kyogre with Calm Mind rends it apart due to resistance to Ice and an amazing base 140 Special Defense. Metagross can switch in and use a Choice Banded Meteor Mash to easily dispose of Arceus. Lastly, the Dragon-type is countered by Metagross.
The Choice Band set is relatively simple to counter. Giratina can switch into any attack, even a Dragon Claw, and then one may work on switching in Pokémon that resist the chosen attack; to ease matters, Giratina's Pressure ability ruins ExtremeSpeed and Punishment. Lugia and its massive Defense, Reflect, Pressure and Roost does the same too. The Arceus that are designed to counter other Pokémon are usually beaten by a solid attacker that is not weak to one of their attacks. Any non-Poison or Steel-type must beware of Toxic, however.
My2-cents:
HAH!!!!!
I do believe you guys are only complaning
because you do not know how to counter
this so-called "God"!

 

[Dark Azelf]

Counters

As versatile as Arceus is, every individual set is entirely counterable. Giratina and Lugia can switch in on an Extreme Killer set very easily with their ridiculous Defense and HP and burn or Whirlwind it away, respectively; additionally, intelligent switching lets them use their Pressure ability to disintegrate its meager 8 ExtremeSpeed PP. Skarmory works similarly to Lugia, although the Overheat version squashes it. However, Skarmory is also capable of dealing with the Ghost Swords Dancer, a distinction shared by the insanely defensive Normal Arceus, which can Will-o-Wisp or inflict serious damage on both species of Arceus. A very defensive Choice Band Groudon can also counter the Swords Dance Ghost Arceus, barring a critical hit from Shadow Claw. While not a counter in adherence to its strictest definition, a Kyogre with Choice Scarf can switch in after it has knocked something out, and then proceed to land a swift OHKO with Water Spout, assuming that it did not suffer from damage beforehand.
All counters to the Swords Dance Ghost Arceus except the Normal Arceus must caution against walking directly into a Calm Mind version, though. Speaking of the Calm Mind versions with an auxiliary attack, Blissey can use Toxic to wear them down if they have Recover; if they have Substitute, that means they lack any recovery whatsoever, which a Calm Minding Blissey can counter by breaking the Substitutes down slowly. If the Calm Mind sweeper is Ghost, then a Normal Arceus will be able to switch in on its relatively weak Ice Beams and use Toxic or Punishment, while a Bug-type sweeper is devastated by Heatran and Ho-oh, which sport excellent resistances to its attacks and do considerable chunks of damage with Fire-type attacks that are likely boosted by sunny weather.
Latias and Latios with Refresh can quickly decimate Fighting Arceus as well as Grass Arceus. Rest and Sleep Talk Giratina is in the same boat as Latias. With its base 120 Special Defense, Giratina does not fear much from either of those, barring a critical hit or freeze from Ice Beam. With Pressure on its side, Giratina can quickly dispose of Ice Beam's PPs, leaving Arceus with absolutely no weapons against Giratina. However, Giratina must be cautious walking into versions with Calm Mind, as they will turn the tables quite easily. Although it fears repeatedly switching into STABed Judgments, Blissey can come into either of Grass or Fighting Arceus, land its own Toxic, Softboiled and switch out before she takes too much from Toxic if Arceus inflicted it on Blissey upon switching in. Dialga and Lugia can handle the Grass variant fairly nicely; the former can Bulk Up and dispatch Arceus with a powered up Dragon Claw, whereas the latter can Toxic and Whirlwind away Grass Arceus out of the battlefield. Metagross finds itself not pressured to switch into Grass Arceus and 2HKO with Choice Band Ice Punch or Meteor Mash. Heracross does not fear any of its attacks, and swiftly disposes of Arceus with Megahorn. Heatran, with its 4x resistance to both Ice and Grass, can quickly demolish Arceus with powerful STABed Choice Specs Flamethrower.
The mono-attacking sets are a bit complicated to counter as it is difficult to inflict any type of lasting damage due to the combination of Substitute and Recover or Rest and Sleep Talk. The Bug-types are the easiest to counter; Giratina with Roar can remove any stat boosts as well as a possible Substitute, while Ho-oh and Heatran sport quadruple resistances to Bug and powerful Fire-type attacks to retaliate with. The Ice-type special sweeper is relatively easy to deal with, as well; the Fire-types still work, and Kyogre with Calm Mind rends it apart due to resistance to Ice and an amazing base 140 Special Defense. Metagross can switch in and use a Choice Banded Meteor Mash to easily dispose of Arceus. Lastly, the Dragon-type is countered by Metagross.
The Choice Band set is relatively simple to counter. Giratina can switch into any attack, even a Dragon Claw, and then one may work on switching in Pokémon that resist the chosen attack; to ease matters, Giratina's Pressure ability ruins ExtremeSpeed and Punishment. Lugia and its massive Defense, Reflect, Pressure and Roost does the same too. The Arceus that are designed to counter other Pokémon are usually beaten by a solid attacker that is not weak to one of their attacks. Any non-Poison or Steel-type must beware of Toxic, however.

Yah lets copy and paste from smogon, how awesome you are.

My2-cents:
HAH!!!!!
I do believe you guys are only complaning
because you do not know how to counter
this so-called "God"!

And you are trolling why ?


Honestly this was an ass post, please stop.

Actually this thread is highly pointless anyway tbh.

~Locks~