5th Gen Where is Isshu? Confirmed - New York

[Ravecat]

It's not just an Eagle, and it's not just Blue, Red and White. It is both of these things, both of which are a huge part of typical American pride.

Of course there are darker people everywhere, but where else is known for cultural integration between "white" people and "black" people?
China certainly isn't. Why would they choose to debut dark-skinned characters in China?
It is a colossal part of American history and America today.

I call it American style because the female design especially is obviously a throw to American fashion at the moment. Whether they wear those clothes in other countries or not is irrelevant, especially since other countries likely wear them because of America's influence.

You're the one who is being ignorant if you don't realize that while alone these things may not be important, together they make up a pretty accurate image of the stereotypical America. You wouldn't expect anything other than stereotypical from a game made in another country, which just makes it even more likely.

So don't throw names like ignorant around if you can't back-up your points.

Also, If it is set in China, why exactly is there an America football player again? (A point you conceded to, by the way)

 

[Gentlemen]

New York City. Will I get mugged in Black and White? :D

 

[rocky505]

Solely because of taoism, did u read my previous post?
American football player, ok i get that, it may be a reference. Eagle pokemon, what about eagle pokemon, because it is an eagle :S or becaus it is colored blue, red and white :S i dont hink that has anything to do with nyc theory.
American style, by what is that american style? could some1 please tell me because i dont se how that is amercian style, cause i wear that, and all girls here wear shorts like that.
Black persons, cmon that is for sure not a referenco to america, there are black persons everywhere and dont gimme that america is a mixture of culture crap, thats just ignorant.
Look at nyc, it doesnt look like isshu at all! And its size obviously doesnt fit in other regions while shanghai perfectly fits thats the reason i disregarded all that.
And these thing u said i disregarded cause most of them are bull, like black person, wooguru, large industrial city, ppl who claims these things just shows how ignorant of other nations are they.
So stop saying that aloe or wooguru hints to america i find that offensive and it just shows how u know nothing about china or other countries
And arceus isnt based on a chinese myth, it is not based on anything at all it is just a pokemon that created everything :S

Edit: It is just similar to chinese deity that has 1000 arms, because in dex it states that arceus shaped the world with 1000 arms.
That is not based of.

How is it offensive to say that it is NYC because of Aloe and Wargle last I checked there are black people in more places than just NYC.

 

[MistahDude]

Solely because of taoism, did u read my previous post?
American football player, ok i get that, it may be a reference. Eagle pokemon, what about eagle pokemon, because it is an eagle :S or becaus it is colored blue, red and white :S i dont hink that has anything to do with nyc theory.
American style, by what is that american style? could some1 please tell me because i dont se how that is amercian style, cause i wear that, and all girls here wear shorts like that.
Black persons, cmon that is for sure not a referenco to america, there are black persons everywhere and dont gimme that america is a mixture of culture crap, thats just ignorant.
Look at nyc, it doesnt look like isshu at all! And its size obviously doesnt fit in other regions while shanghai perfectly fits thats the reason i disregarded all that.
And these thing u said i disregarded cause most of them are bull, like black person, wooguru, large industrial city, ppl who claims these things just shows how ignorant of other nations are they.
So stop saying that aloe or wooguru hints to america i find that offensive and it just shows how u know nothing about china or other countries
And arceus isnt based on a chinese myth, it is not based on anything at all it is just a pokemon that created everything :S

Edit: It is just similar to chinese deity that has 1000 arms, because in dex it states that arceus shaped the world with 1000 arms.
That is not based of.

Wooguru is a mixture of War and Eagle and is pronounced Wargle. It resembles a Bald Eagle and is Red, White and Blue with what appears to be a Native American Headdress on his head. There are too many references to America for it not to be an American influenced pokemon.

Just like Ravecat, I know and understand that other countries usually use stereotypes when they are basing things off of other countries. The way the male and female players dress is stereotypical North American (Washington, Idaho, Montana etc.,).

Heck they even chose this generation to have a borderline homosexual person (Dento). That hints even more so at America.

 

[coolnick37]

It's not just an Eagle, and it's not just Blue, Red and White. It is both of these things, both of which are a huge part of typical American pride.

Of course there are darker people everywhere, but where else is known for cultural integration between "white" people and "black" people?
China certainly isn't. Why would they choose to debut dark-skinned characters in China?
It is a colossal part of American history and America today.

I call it American style because the female design especially is obviously a throw to American fashion at the moment. Whether they wear those clothes in other countries or not is irrelevant, especially since other countries likely wear them because of America's influence.

You're the one who is being ignorant if you don't realize that while alone these things may not be important, together they make up a pretty accurate image of the stereotypical America. You wouldn't expect anything other than stereotypical from a game made in another country, which just makes it even more likely.

So don't throw names like ignorant around if you can't back-up your points.

Also, If it is set in China, why exactly is there an America football player again? (A point you conceded to, by the way)

There is just one black person here, so that doesnt have anything to do with racial mixture.
As for that fashion, those girls short trend came from UK as i know, i might be though, and male protagonist fashion isnt really anything special
So u think that having protagonsit that wear american clothes, an eagle, and a black person makes an amercian background, i dont think so, and only an amrican could say so.
And culture isnt that important in the setting of pokemon region, geography is. All the past regions were identified because of their geographical shape and connection to the towns in that region.
Nyc geography is totaly different, and its size is totaly off, which pretty much excludes NYC as a candidate for isshu, IMO
Now take a look at evidence for shanghai:
Size fits like perfect, shape is similar, has that farris wheel on water below the lake, and the taoist background. -> that sound like shanghai to me.
NYC misses the shape and size to be a candidate for isshu region, and is in itself a city, not a region(u cant base a ragion on a single city), by shanghai we mean the area around shanghai, which has cities in the places isshu has, but heres a pic:

Also note that, isshu is a natural foresty area, with only hiuin city as a large industrial part(which represents yang as a mordern part of isshu), which also points that it is not NYC, since NYC area is all industrial(there is no yin here, the natural part of isshu), while on the other side, all those areas outside shanghai are natural and there there is no industry(yin a counterpart to hiuin city). So shanghai would be hiuin city and the rest are all foresty areas and a couple of cities.

Wooguru is a mixture of War and Eagle and is pronounced Wargle. It resembles a Bald Eagle and is Red, White and Blue with what appears to be a Native American Headdress on his head. There are too many references to America for it not to be an American influenced pokemon.

Just like Ravecat, I know and understand that other countries usually use stereotypes when they are basing things off of other countries. The way the male and female players dress is stereotypical North American (Washington, Idaho, Montana etc.,).

Heck they even chose this generation to have a borderline homosexual person (Dento). That hints even more so at America.

Ok ur talking about false stereotypes, and here you are saying that dento looks homosexual, and even worse that his homosexuality hint to america.

 

[Surmonter]

When you put Isshu up against a map of New York City, the similarity is much more than that of Shanghai.

Also, how does Taoism not make it NYC? I don't see how that is possible. Seeing as NYC is the most mixed-culture city in the world, while the US in its entirety is based off other cultures, which includes other religions.

So Taoism does not hurt the case of a NYC based Isshu in any way.

 

[Ravecat]

I'm sorry, what were you saying?

 

[coolnick37]

When you put Isshu up against a map of New York City, the similarity is much more than that of Shanghai.

Also, how does Taoism not make it NYC? I don't see how that is possible. Seeing as NYC is the most mixed-culture city in the world, while the US in its entirety is based off other cultures, which includes other religions.

So Taoism does not hurt the case of a NYC based Isshu in any way.

If they made a region after NYC Im sure they would think of something more connected to america then a chinese religion, dot u think that makes no osense. And taoism in america has under 0.5% folower, i think even less, but it isnt even shown on any graph, but rather put in the others section. So taoism in USA, no
And if u look more closely between those 3 maps ul see how NYC doesnt look like isshu, and by size it is not a region, and it only consist of 1 city

I'm sorry, what were you saying?

:/ waht are you saying?
Find a picture of shangha, it looks like that too from sea, all harbour cities look like that. And if u are reffering to the natural side across the water, you know that is just an artistic expression.

 

[Ravecat]

No regions are accurate in size to their real counterpart. Not to mention I am primarily arguing that it is America in general, not necessarily New York City.
But I think you'll find Manhattan looks far more like the Isshu map than any image of China does.

Also you still haven't answered why there's an American footballer in China.
Which brings me to another point, why are there so many potential references to America, yet very limited possible references to China?

Oh, and just by the way, I don't know where you got your education, but last I checked Australia isn't part of America. So no, not "only an amrican could say so," considering I'm not American.

 

[Chub 777]

If they made a region after NYC Im sure they would think of something more connected to america then a chinese religion, dot u think that makes no osense. And taoism in america has under 0.5% folower, i think even less, but it isnt even shown on any graph, but rather put in the others section. So taoism in USA, no
And if u look more closely between those 3 maps ul see how NYC doesnt look like isshu, and by size it is not a region, and it only consist of 1 city

Then zoom out on the map. You see New York state. Although the state doesn't look like Isshu, look again:

(It's colo(u)r coded.

 

[Ravecat]

A vaguely reminiscent Ferris Wheel? Compared to not only the national bird of America but a player of the national sport?

It's clear this is over. Continue disregarding my points and repeating yourself if you wish.

 

[coolnick37]

A vaguely reminiscent Ferris Wheel? Compared to not only the national bird of America but a player of the national sport?

It's clear this is over. Continue disregarding my points and repeating yourself if you wish.

A vaguely reminiscent Ferris Wheel? :/ ok

Woogoru, and a football player should clearly show us that isshu is america :o
Oh really. k then.

NYC with it size, geographical shape, the fact that there r no forests there and the fact that taoism is a national religion in china, which is minor religion in USA cant possbly be isshu. I think that legendary pokemon have much more reference to where isshu is located then an eagle, which could also be a chinese eagle.
Why do you keep on saying football player its not that big of a reference, its just a class of player, so no.
Even if isshu had barack obama as a character in it, NYC is way to small to be a region, and is a city, so it CANT be a region, and the entire story of isshu rests on opposition between natural and artificial, which is not present in NYC, with NYC out of the way, the reasonavle thing to conclude for isshu is china, because of the taoistic background.

And its not over, especially since football player and an eagle are no evidence of anything.

 

[Mana1]

A vaguely reminiscent Ferris Wheel? Compared to not only the national bird of America but a player of the national sport?

It's clear this is over. Continue disregarding my points and repeating yourself if you wish.

Just because there are hints of America doesn't mean it is based in America. I'm sure GameFreak acknowledge that they have a wide USA fanbase, that's reason enough to include things that related to them such as the a-football players (A sport which if also played worldwide -.-).

The Eagle can be put down to coincidence, it was time for an eagle like Pokémon and the colours happen to be similar. Strangly you seem to ignore the fact the bird also has the colour yellow. If it was plastered in stars and stripes I might give it to you, but no it's not. Giving it a 'native American headdress' just gives it a certain character, which they picked due to its natural habitat and location - like they do with many other Pokémon.

-----

Culturally, as in the behaviour we expect in Pokémon games and anime, China is more of a parallel of Japan then America is. Geographically I think Shanghai has the upperhand with its scaling (The region that Isshu could be based on is a similar size to other regions) and land masses.

 

[yellowbird]

"...that's reason enough to include things that related to them such as the a-football players (A sport which if also played worldwide -.-)..."

American football is played world-wide, yes, but it is not nearly as popular outside of the United States. Other countries are much more into "real football" / soccer, or other sports.

A vaguely reminiscent Ferris Wheel? :/ ok

Woogoru, and a football player should clearly show us that isshu is america :o
Oh really. k then.

NYC with it size, geographical shape, the fact that there r no forests there and the fact that taoism is a national religion in china, which is minor religion in USA cant possbly be isshu. I think that legendary pokemon have much more reference to where isshu is located then an eagle, which could also be a chinese eagle.
Why do you keep on saying football player its not that big of a reference, its just a class of player, so no.
Even if isshu had barack obama as a character in it, NYC is way to small to be a region, and is a city, so it CANT be a region, and the entire story of isshu rests on opposition between natural and artificial, which is not present in NYC, with NYC out of the way, the reasonavle thing to conclude for isshu is china, because of the taoistic background.

And its not over, especially since football player and an eagle are no evidence of anything.

I don't understand why you said earlier that Isshu's location had nothing to with culture, though you keep throwing in refrences to taoism. Taoism is a religion, which is a part of culture. When you say "taoistic background," that is another way of saying "culture."

And in reference to the football players being completely irrelevant to Isshu's location, I would like to point out that football players in Shanghai would be just as crazy as Aztec-based characters featured in a Russian setting. I can't imagine Gamefreak would just suddenly decide they wanted football player NPCs.

I also think New York City's lack of trees has nothing to do with it. I'm sure there aren't forests in at least half of the places they're featured all of the other games real life counterparts. Additionally, I don't think it's just the city, but the surrounding area.

 

[Mana1]

And in reference to the football players being completely irrelevant to Isshu's location, I would like to point out that football players in Shanghai would be just as crazy as Aztec-based characters featured in a Russian setting. I can't imagine Gamefreak would just suddenly decide they wanted football player NPCs.

Technically that's the equivalent of American Football players being in an imaginary world called Isshu where wild monsters roam...

 

[yellowbird]

Technically that's the equivalent of American Football players being in an imaginary world called Isshu where wild monsters roam...

I personally disagree, because that's not the same analogy anymore, but that's not really the point at any rate. The point is that I don't think Gamefreak would throw in a sport that is very widely recognised for being American —and was "invented" for lack of a better word, in America— in China. Technically, yes, American football is a spin-off of European rugby, but it was the Americans that were spinning it off and such.

 

[coolnick37]

I personally disagree, because that's not the same analogy anymore, but that's not really the point at any rate. The point is that I don't think Gamefreak would throw in a sport that is very widely recognised for being American —and was "invented" for lack of a better word, in America— in China. Technically, yes, American football is a spin-off of European rugby, but it was the Americans that were spinning it off and such.

If u think that they wouldn't put football in a country where it isnt that popular, why would you think they'd put a religion that is from china in USA which has nothing to do with taoism.

 

[yellowbird]

I really think Taoism has very little to do with the game. While, yes it is a Taoist philosophy, it is a philosophy recognised all over the world and not always associated with other Taoist philosophies or Taoism in general. When I was little I understood the whole Yin and Yang idea, but it wasn't until a few years ago that I learned about Taoism. Or maybe I was just an ignorant 6 year old, your call.

Also, I do believe there was a church/cathedral in Hearthome City.

 

[coolnick37]

I really think Taoism has very little to do with the game. While, yes it is a Taoist philosophy, it is a philosophy recognised all over the world and not always associated with other Taoist philosophies or Taoism in general. When I was little I understood the whole Yin and Yang idea, but it wasn't until a few years ago that I learned about Taoism. Or maybe I was just an ignorant 6 year old, your call.

Also, I do believe there was a church/cathedral in Hearthome City.

Very little? Isnt the entire plot about old vs new, tech vs nature.
Arent all religions excepted in the world, except in very few countries, but for me atleast it doesnt make sense for gamefreak to make a region in lets say america and then, hey lets integrate yin-yang as the main point of story line. Then they would make some legendaries more approperiate to the area they are based of. (if they made yin-yang legends = china, if it was USA maybe something connected to indian tribes myths)
They had a church in kanto and in hoenn too, or were they cemetaries :/, anyway they werent a part of stroy line, they were just an object with no meaning.

 

[yellowbird]

Very little? Isnt the entire plot about old vs new, tech vs nature.
Arent all religions excepted in the world, except in very few countries, but for me atleast it doesnt make sense for gamefreak to make a region in lets say america and then, hey lets integrate yin-yang as the main point of story line. Then they would make some legendaries more approperiate to the area they are based of. (if they made yin-yang legends = china, if it was USA maybe something connected to indian tribes myths)
They had a church in kanto and in hoenn too, or were they cemetaries :/, anyway they werent a part of stroy line, they were just an object with no meaning.

Yes, but you don't have to look at the plot as "old vs. new = yin vs. yang = complete taoism = china."

The whole world is having a philosophical war with old and new, nature and technology. Global warming, people afraid of artificial intelligence taking over the planet, there are millions of people out there experiencing this. China isn't the only country that can or will have this conflict.