4th Gen Which do you prefer?

[Haza]

Playing Red is boring now, maybe the graphics and lack of Roserade have something to do with it but the battling system also stinks.

 

[fenyx4]

I'm perfectly fine with the current EVs, since all Pokemon can be EV-trained exactly the same. Natures also help to add more depth and variety, as you could have 3 stats that are perfect for boosting with a certain nature, and you're forced to decide what stat you want to emphasize more. That difference in emphasis could potentially make or break your chance of winning in battles. Also, all natures are equally obtainable by all Pokemon.

What I don't really, like, however, are IVs. I like how they add much more uniqueness & variety with Pokemon, but I hate it when bad-IV Pkmn (low numbered IVs or 0 IVs across the board) are pitted against good-IV Pkmn (31 IVs or pretty high IVs across the board).
Yeah, there's an extremely low chance of encountered 0-all or 31-all IVs Pokemon just like every other possible IV combo (I think 1 in 887,503,681) but generally, despite both Pkmn having good movesets and Trainers being educated in good Pkmn battling, a Pkmn with high IVs will always have the advantage over low IV Pkmn, no matter what (strictly in the IV sense, disregarding base stats since those are natural w/Pkmn anyway). While high IV Pkmn can attack with ease (based on pure power and high speed, tactics aren't needed if the foe can wipe you out with one blow first, even if you have Priority moves), low IV Pkmn need to be even more tactical, using Roar/Spikes, Sleep/Paralysis-inducing move+an decent attack, or drawing out battles to maximize Toxic's effect. And usually, pure power+high speed beats tactics anyday, since the foe can't even use their tactics due to an OHKO.

If there was a TM move that balanced IVs, that would possibly rectify the IV flaw. Not a noobie, over-powered, unbalanced move, just one that gave Pkmn with lower IVs a fighting chance. (the lower their IV, the higher chance that the user attacks first, and the lower their Atk/Sp. Atk IV, the more powerful the move). It would probably have ??? typing, so no Pkmn could resist it or be completely wiped out by it based on type-matchup. It would have a physical-special counterpart (like Hyperbeam/Giga Impact situation) to shift focus on Atk/Sp. Atk IVs. There could also be a version of the move for defensive situations, to utilize the Def/Sp. Def IVs. The IV total of a Pokemon could also be factored in some way, preventing 0 Atk-IV but-decent-in-other-stats Pkmn from utterly overpowering 31-Def IV but-decent-in-other-stats Pkmn.

Anyway, besides the semi-minor IV flaw, EVs, natures, abilities, base stats, typing, and movesets pretty much balance the game out, IMO.

*Sorry for going off-topic with IVs rather than EVs

 

[Z o M B ii 3]

I'd rather stick with EV Training.
You can customize your pokemon, why mess with that?

(100th Post)​

 

[airconditioning]

What I don't really, like, however, are IVs. I like how they add much more uniqueness & variety with Pokemon, but I hate it when bad-IV Pkmn (low numbered IVs or 0 IVs across the board) are pitted against good-IV Pkmn (31 IVs or pretty high IVs across the board).

IVs are exactly like EVs. They serve as a leveling ground between different Pokemon and trainers. And like EVs, without them, you can't expect to win. Like EVs, you have to persevere at them to get good ones (albeit in a different way), and like EVs, if you don't know what you're doing, you'll get nowhere (whereas knowing what you're doing will make things go very fast).

By the way, IVs can only provide up to 31 bonus points in a stat, compared to 63 points gained by EVs (252 EVs, that is). While IVs are important, they don't make as much of a splash as EVs can.

a Pkmn with high IVs will always have the advantage over low IV Pkmn, no matter what (strictly in the IV sense, disregarding base stats since those are natural w/Pkmn anyway).

A Choice Scarf Porygon-Z with 15 Speed and SAtk will kill an LO DD Gyarados any day.

While high IV Pkmn can attack with ease (based on pure power and high speed, tactics aren't needed if the foe can wipe you out with one blow first, even if you have Priority moves), low IV Pkmn need to be even more tactical, using Roar/Spikes, Sleep/Paralysis-inducing move+an decent attack, or drawing out battles to maximize Toxic's effect. And usually, pure power+high speed beats tactics anyday, since the foe can't even use their tactics due to an OHKO.

What the hell are you talking about. Low IV'd Pokemon have to be a bit smarter than flawless Pokemon (knowing who they can and can't outspeed, knowing who they can and can't kill), but overall, they play almost exactly like a flawless counterpart would. Playing a Pokemon the way you described would probably be even more of a death sentence than average IVs- try playing a Weavile that way, and tell me what happens.

If there was a TM move that balanced IVs, that would possibly rectify the IV flaw. Not a noobie, over-powered, unbalanced move, just one that gave Pkmn with lower IVs a fighting chance. (the lower their IV, the higher chance that the user attacks first, and the lower their Atk/Sp. Atk IV, the more powerful the move). It would probably have ??? typing, so no Pkmn could resist it or be completely wiped out by it based on type-matchup. It would have a physical-special counterpart (like Hyperbeam/Giga Impact situation) to shift focus on Atk/Sp. Atk IVs. There could also be a version of the move for defensive situations, to utilize the Def/Sp. Def IVs. The IV total of a Pokemon could also be factored in some way, preventing 0 Atk-IV but-decent-in-other-stats Pkmn from utterly overpowering 31-Def IV but-decent-in-other-stats Pkmn.

That would be... completely retarded. First, Nintendo has never acknowledged the existence of EVs or IVs, and never will, so it would likely be impossible to word that move the way you want it. Besides, if a move like that was made, and it's spot on a Pokemon's moveset was well justified, then people would just breed for low IVs, in which case you'd be whining about how your 10 Atk Pokemon can't kill anything compared to your opponent's 0 Atk Pokemon.

 

[fenyx4]

That would be... completely retarded. First, Nintendo has never acknowledged the existence of EVs or IVs, and never will, so it would likely be impossible to word that move the way you want it. Besides, if a move like that was made, and it's spot on a Pokemon's moveset was well justified, then people would just breed for low IVs, in which case you'd be whining about how your 10 Atk Pokemon can't kill anything compared to your opponent's 0 Atk Pokemon.

Nintendo doesn't have to acknowledge EVs and IVs. They can just word the move like they did with Hidden Power, which runs off IVs as well. The description of HP doesn't even acknowledge IVs, just saying that it varies w/the Pokemon (which could even be interpreted as what species the Pokemon is, which has no relation whatsoever to IVs).
And you don't have to use the move. Just take advantage of your average/high IVs and KO the Pokemon foe with your other moves. That 10 Atk Pokemon has a slight but essential advantage over the 0 Atk, but those 10 IVs in difference could be what helps the Pokemon win a very close battle. In terms of pure offensive tactics, it's better to have 10 IVs than none at all. The move won't be that integral to gameplay, so Trainers can just KO Pokemon with other moves as normally, even if they can't use the IV move well.
The move's base power wouldn't even be that great; probably ranging from 70-100 at the most. Furthermore, its accuracy doesn't even have to be 100; it could be between 70-90 (70-80 most likely). These differences in power and accuracy should balance it better for high-IV Pokemon, which shouldn't even be complaining considering that they usually have a better advantage than low-IV Pokemon. However, as your Porygon-Gyarados example showed, IVs aren't necessary to win, but they do help in winning and are advantageous for a Pokemon.

Anyway, airconditioning, I now agree with your other explanations, and I see how they're valid. I'm just annoyed how high-IV Pokemon will always have an advantage over low-IV Pokemon (strictly in the IV sense), as IVs are unchangeable no matter what, and getting good IVs is up to randomness/luck/fate which you have no control over. Although the advantage in IVs is a slight one and doesn't make 'as much as a splash' as EVs do, they're still beneficial in battles. Otherwise, we wouldn't have/be complaining about all of these hacked max-IVs Pokemon everywhere.

I guess the point I'm trying to make is most evident with a Smeargle battle, where both Smeargle either Sketched Strength, for example, or if they Sketched Strength and the theoretical IV move I described earlier. If they had the same EVs, items (excluding luck-based ones like Quick Claw or Scope Lens), Hidden Power type, and nature, but one Smeargle had all of their IVs higher than the other, the winner is clear-cut every time this situation occurs (the high-IV Smeargle). But if both Smeargle had the opportunity to also Sketch the theoretical IV move, the low-IV Smeargle would be the clear winner every time this situation occurred (since it moves first due to the IV move's effect).

Situation 1:
Moveset: Strength only
Smeargle 1-high IVs
Smeargle 2-low IVs
Winner: Smeargle 1 (based purely on IVs, under certain conditions*)

Situation 2:
Moveset: Strength and theoretical IV move that benefits Pokemon with low IVs
Smeargle 1-high IVs
Smeargle 2-low IVs
Winner: Smeargle 2 (based on theoretical IV move [especially speed effect],
under certain conditions*)


*Conditions:

• Same EVs, items (excluding luck-based ones like Quick Claw or Scope Lens), Hidden Power type, and nature
• One Smeargle has higher IVs than other
• Both Pokemon have full HP and PP
• No weather effects, stat changes, switching moves (like Spikes or Stealth Rock), or status conditions present
• Both Smeargle are each Trainer's last Pokemon for battle

Theoretical IV move:

If there was a TM move that balanced IVs, that would possibly rectify the IV flaw. Not a noobie, over-powered, unbalanced move, just one that gave Pokemon with lower IVs more of a fighting chance.

• The lower their speed IV, the higher increase in the user's Speed for the duration of the turn (speed would be returned to normal at the end of the turn), and the lower their Atk/Sp. Atk IV, the more powerful the move. It would have a physical-special counterpart (like Hyperbeam/Giga Impact situation) to shift focus on Atk/Sp. Atk IVs.
• It would probably have ??? typing, so no Pokemon could resist it or be completely wiped out by it based on type-matchup.
• There could also be a version of the move for defensive situations, to utilize the Def/Sp. Def IVs. The IV total of a Pokemon could also be factored in some way, preventing 0 Atk-IV- or 0. Sp. Atk-IV-but-decent-in-other-stats Pokemon from utterly overpowering otherPokemon.
• PP is either 5 or 10

Version 1: Power ranges between 65-95, Accuracy is 80-95, maybe 100
Version 2: Power ranges between 90-120, Accuracy is 75-90

Even under normal battle situations and conditions, the IV move could give low-IV Pokemon the edge they needed just in case they are facing high-IV Pokemon. The IV move would still be unlearnable by a few Pokemon (mainly Unown and Magikarp).
The IV move is still justified for Ubers (and other tiers) as well, because in battles involving them, there are plenty of moves that have better power and accuracy. Disregarding the ability Levitate and type-matchups, the move Earthquake is more powerful than Version 1 of the move. Overheat and its variations are more powerful than Version 2, despite Overheat's secondary effect since White Herb is likely to be held or a stat-raising move is likely to be present in the moveset. Even Eruption and Water Spout are better than both versions if the user's HP is full, and Hyper Beam has much more power anyway, despite recharging. Punishment has the potential to be much more powerful than both versions (capping at 360 including base power, STAB, and Dark-type powerup item) with great accuracy.

I know the Smeargle situations would be very, very unlikely in a Pokemon battle (especially since the shown movesets are not likely to be used and the EVs would probably be different), but they are undeniably possible situations.

IVs (which you have no control over, considering you don't IV breed, hack, or wait patiently to encounter high-IV'd Pokemon) should not be the sole reason you lose a battle (which is possible as shown by Smeargle Situation 1). If the difference in win and loss was due to a difference in Speed IVs and your foe was slightly faster from the IVs, the theoretical IV move could've compensated for the gap in Speed and then you could've had control over whether you won or not.
Winning simply by luck/randomness (which just so happens to determines whether you get to battle with good IVs or not) is one of the most annoying things in games (as it doesn't involve skill, knowledge or strategy at all), and should be minimized as much as possible. Knowing the very low accuracy rate of true OHKO moves and they probability that they shouldn't hit much, no Trainer wants to lose by being OHKO'd by a faster foe with Sheer Cold/Fissure/Guillotine 6 times in a row simply based on 'luck' when the foe doesn't even have to use Mind Reader/Lock-On once. If you're gonna lose, you should at least be able to do something to minimize how terribly you lose.

*Again, sorry for post-length