Why all the Dual Screens?

[Yuoaman]

I just want to know why all of you seem to think that utilizing two screens for a game is a good idea? You do realize that you aren't as limited as if you were developing for the DS hardware, don't you? Wouldn't the interface be better if you were to use a single screen with which the player could interact with?

 

[Worldslayer608]

No? I would kill for a RMXP Dual screen script. Not only does it give a nice presentation, it is nice to see the menu as you play in my opinion.

 

[venom12]

I like Dual Screen too i making one now, you can make more features, etc.

 

[Yuoaman]

But you can display it on the same screen, a second screen for a PC game is a waste of effort.

 

[Riceeman]

Mweh, it makes games less cluttered and there are lots of nice possibilities with a dual screen. I think it is just your opinion though.

 

[Neo-Dragon]

It is a waste and it's not a waste.
It's a waste because instead of making a "dual screen" set up, they could just use a bigger resolution and design there menu's better on one screen.
Not waste because they could draw from current pokémon games and use the bottom space as shown in DS titles.
I'd love to have a bigger resolution, and have the gameplay window the same size, but use the extra width and whatnot for interface.
Using the dual screen scripts will allow players an easy pick up and play ability as they are used to a dual screen now.

Plus, I love the community using it, as I have a mouse system in my game and mine stands out more because it's on a single screen - AND - I still haven't shown off my new menu public :P

 

[Maruno]

I'm with the minority here, then. While I can see the appeal of having a dual screen, I don't see why everyone and their pets wants them.

Personally, I'd rather see these PC games being designed more for use on a PC. The Pokémon games are the way they are because they're played on a handheld console with the same system that many other games have to use as well. PC games have a whole monitor (or 640x480 max, if you're using RPG Maker XP) to play with, along with a mouse and the unique click-and-drag function it has. Seems like a perfect way to move around pokémon in storage or in your party, for example (and there are scripts that allow mice to be used, so this isn't out of the question).

As Neo-Dragon suggested, why not a side/bottom bar that shows various bits of information, like your party/time/number of badges/Pokédex seen/own, etc.? There's a lot of potential out there to be interesting, and practically no one trying. No, everyone wants to copy the real games as exactly as they can, and that limits them.

Another thing that currently puts me off dual screens is the switching controls from both hands on the keyboard (move + action buttons) to grabbing the mouse and back. Can someone devise a control system where you can keep your hands in the same place? It should be as simple as "left click is use, right click is back", or borrowing from the WASD setup (with shift being run/toggle run, Q is pause menu, etc.).

Basically, it's because people use dual screen for the sake of having dual screen, and they end up not properly integrating the mouse into the rest of the game. It's hard to do so, admittedly, but it should still be tried.


I know I exaggerated and oversimplified there. Don't start complaining that your game happens to have another mouse feature (like a berry watering minigame where you click-and-drag scribble all over the tree - at least ask before you steal that idea, thanks).

I also don't automatically think all dual screens are bad. A non-clickable second screen that shows any relevant information whatever you're doing would be fun, for example (map for overworld with location indicator, etc.). It's when people throw in a clickable second screen (particularly one that does exactly and only what the real games do) just for the sake of having one that bothers me. Grow an imagination!

 

[POKEMONMASTER260]

No? I would kill for a RMXP Dual screen script. Not only does it give a nice presentation, it is nice to see the menu as you play in my opinion.

Which is one reason why Flash is awesome. Flash's graphics are placed similar to a paint editor, & thus one can just put 2 backgrounds on top of one another, or put a background that looks like one screen on top of another. Luckily, ActionScript 3 is object-oriented programming, so the coding would not have anything to do with drawing the graphics!

 

[Luka S.J.]

Well...as being one of the people developing the dual screen, I would have to protect that idea of a dual screen. To start of I would like to emphasise the enormous new possibilities that a second screen gives both the developer and the player. Another big advantage is that it is only for the PC. With RGSS the boundaries are endless, and a good developer can make magic with something like a second screen. The good thing with it being on the computer is that it does not limit the developer to only one object click, but it creates room for various other options. Personally I'm making to most out of the second screen and its mouse capabilities. I'm including both left and right click options, hovering over objects and even free dragging. By having a second screen, the developer can space their objects out over a better range and create better and more interactive menus. Personally, I really enjoy working with a second screen as it has allowed me to implement new features that wouldn't be available on a normal structured game. I think that a dual screen system also shows how skilled game developers are and how creative they are, because it tests how they go about making the most of the second screen.

 

[Neo-Dragon]

What new features have you put in Luka that can't be done with "one screen"? I don't see any. I don't think a dual screen system shows how skilled you are- it shows me how much you lack in imagination and rely on tested methods.
I think it's unfair to say that a dual screen means your a skilled developer.

 

[Luka S.J.]

What new features have you put in Luka that can't be done with "one screen"? I don't see any. I don't think a dual screen system shows how skilled you are- it shows me how much you lack in imagination and rely on tested methods.
I think it's unfair to say that a dual screen means your a skilled developer.

Well, you have your opinions on it, I have mine. Everyone has their opinions regarding the dual screen. I'm not the only one developing a dual screen, and if you were to ask other people doing it, they would tell you that it is not an easy job. I would have to dissagree with the lacking of imagination part. In here, you need imagination for everything. And a person does need imagination in order to be able to think of ways on how to go around making a dual screen in the first place anyways. You might be right about the feature being able to be done with both a single and a dual screen. But I just think that putting some of those features on two screens might be better for the long run. It's hard to space out many of the acctuall dual screen features done by nintendo over one single screen. And yes, having the dual screen does not mean that you are automatically a skilled developer. There are many great developers like Wichu and yourself that do not use the dual screen. But what I meant to say that having a dual screen is not an easy job and it does take general knowledge to complete something like that. It isn't for everyone, but I don't understand why it is a big issue to discriminate others, I really don't. There are many games on this forum and if dual screen games are not your particular taste, then fine. Also there aren't that many fan made dual screen games, so I really don't understand the reason why to start picking on the dual screen feature.

 

[Neo-Dragon]

I didn't say it was an issue to pull you out and discriminate you, or people who use it, I took exception to what you said about it showing you or others who use as being a skilled developer- when it's far from it.
It wasn't a question about you, or your game.

You would be skilled if you used the extra resolution for much more- in the vain of something like kyledoves MMO as an example. Gameplay window is still normal size and the extra space is used for more stuff rather then to mimic a DS.

I'll give you an example of something a lot better then using it as a menu- have 2 players- one top or one bottom.

Or have the battle screen on bottom, with a view from the overworld of the battle on top.

Right now, if I did have to mention your game, it sticks to what gamefreak have done. Why not try push yourself, and see what you can do, that I, or anyone else couldn't.

 

[Alexandre]

I don't really understand the fuss over all if it. Subconciously we are all trying to make our games like Game Freak to give us a taste of a game developers life. Whether you choose to then make your game better, or choose to stick towards Game Freak's path, it doesn't matter. Its a Pokemon fan game.
No big deal. Vassever.

 

[Fraot]

For me it's kind of just an "accesory" it's only for giving the game a pretty looking. All the stuff can me made on a screen. There's no need of two, i mean, you can implement the mouse listener function regardless of having two screens. It's simple as Luka: said "hovering over objects and even free dragging", that things can be made on one screen.

 

[Maruno]

Well, you have your opinions on it, I have mine. Everyone has their opinions regarding the dual screen. I'm not the only one developing a dual screen, and if you were to ask other people doing it, they would tell you that it is not an easy job. I would have to dissagree with the lacking of imagination part. In here, you need imagination for everything. And a person does need imagination in order to be able to think of ways on how to go around making a dual screen in the first place anyways. You might be right about the feature being able to be done with both a single and a dual screen. But I just think that putting some of those features on two screens might be better for the long run. It's hard to space out many of the acctuall dual screen features done by nintendo over one single screen. And yes, having the dual screen does not mean that you are automatically a skilled developer. There are many great developers like Wichu and yourself that do not use the dual screen. But what I meant to say that having a dual screen is not an easy job and it does take general knowledge to complete something like that. It isn't for everyone, but I don't understand why it is a big issue to discriminate others, I really don't. There are many games on this forum and if dual screen games are not your particular taste, then fine. Also there aren't that many fan made dual screen games, so I really don't understand the reason why to start picking on the dual screen feature.

I won't argue that it takes a lot of imagination to figure out how to program a dual screen. I will argue that it shows a lack of imagination in that you're trying to do something that's already been done.

I don't think dual screens suit a PC game. PCs generally only have one monitor, after all. The DS has two screens, and every game for it seems to have to put it to use, even if only for fairly gimmicky things (the Pokémon games use it rather well, though). It's like the Wiimote, where every game made for the Wii someone needs some quirks in which the shaking the stick is important.

The 4th Gen Pokémon games use two screens (one clickable) because that's what the console has. It's an interesting feature, yes, but it was hardly designed solely for the Pokémon series. No, they just have a system and they adapt their game to it.

The same should be done with a PC. With a PC you get a large monitor, lots of keys (a whole board of them), and a mouse (which can be annoying to use if the entire game doesn't leave your hand there). I don't think trying to impose a handheld console's system onto it is quite the right approach to create the best game.

The whole idea of a dual screen just reeks far too much of a gimick - "The official games did this and we're copying!". Sure you're adapting it later to make it work better, but at the base of things it's still just copying for the sake of being like the official games.

What if the next Nintendo handheld console also has two narrow side screens next to the upper screen, for added displays (e.g. Pokémon party icons or menu? People will start putting them in as well, rather than just making the main screen bigger.

I'm not belittling the technical expertise needed to implement different kinds of screens (dual/touch/etc.). I'm belittling the idea that people seem to use it just for the sake of imitation. That's not imaginative.

 

[Alexandre]

I won't argue that it takes a lot of imagination to figure out how to program a dual screen. I will argue that it shows a lack of imagination in that you're trying to do something that's already been done.

I don't think dual screens suit a PC game. PCs generally only have one monitor, after all. The DS has two screens, and every game for it seems to have to put it to use, even if only for fairly gimmicky things (the Pokémon games use it rather well, though). It's like the Wiimote, where every game made for the Wii someone needs some quirks in which the shaking the stick is important.

The 4th Gen Pokémon games use two screens (one clickable) because that's what the console has. It's an interesting feature, yes, but it was hardly designed solely for the Pokémon series. No, they just have a system and they adapt their game to it.

The same should be done with a PC. With a PC you get a large monitor, lots of keys (a whole board of them), and a mouse (which can be annoying to use if the entire game doesn't leave your hand there). I don't think trying to impose a handheld console's system onto it is quite the right approach to create the best game.

The whole idea of a dual screen just reeks far too much of a gimick - "The official games did this and we're copying!". Sure you're adapting it later to make it work better, but at the base of things it's still just copying for the sake of being like the official games.

What if the next Nintendo handheld console also has two narrow side screens next to the upper screen, for added displays (e.g. Pokémon party icons or menu? People will start putting them in as well, rather than just making the main screen bigger.

I'm not belittling the technical expertise needed to implement different kinds of screens (dual/touch/etc.). I'm belittling the idea that people seem to use it just for the sake of imitation. That's not imaginative.

According to what you are implying here, the very fact that someone is making a Pokemon Fan Game is not being imaginative. We are copying Game Freak's idea, and putting them into our games. I always like spacing things out, and the dual screen is a fun little thing to play around with.

 

[Fraot]

I agree with Maruno, some people just do it because of the fashion. Maybe Luka(the only one i know) is developing it because he likes it, but the rest are TRYING to develop it because of Luka, kind of competition or trying to follow him, i don't know.
In my case, i don't implement it because:
1.- I don't know.
2.- I'm not interested.
3.- Even if I were a god-like scripter i wouldn't, because it's not necessary.
I know those lines above are not related to the topic here. But the people may be doing that dual screen feature just by fashion.

 

[Luka S.J.]

Well...I like the dual screen. It organises my game in a way. And I'm not very keen on huge one screen sized games because I personally don't like big screen for playing small resolutioned maps. Also, with the dual screen, for interfaces such as the bag or summary screen, I can space things out better over two screens and I'm even able to add more things.

The only real reasons I started my game in dual screen are:
-Alexandre felt like doing a dual screen system
-I like having two screens
-I was dissapointed with the bad use of the second screen in D/P/Pt

So I guess I was trying to show myself I could.

 

[Neo-Dragon]

The bad use of the screen in D/P/Pt? It's pretty much the same as HG/SS and your game (with the exception of mini games- as they differ). The menu was added there to HG/SS, but pretty much its the same. Used for basic navigation in various menus.
The only thing it's sort would be controlling the player movement.

You still don't get the point that was made of the bigger screen.
You would keep the map size the same resolution, but use the extra space for interface- which is what you done I guess since you don't actually have dual screens, just a bigger height resolution.

I still think you should do something with 2 player controlled characters- one on top and one on bottom. Control the top with with the arrow keys and bottom with the mouse. And have puzzles, like the player must stand on a switch to open the door for the player on the other "screen." That would be really interesting and fun to play.

Look at the World ends with you (for the DS) battle system. That was met with mixed reviews, but it was a cool concept that the idea itself was met with praise (if you read the reviews, the complaint was not with the system, but the fact that after 10 seconds, the auto control feature would kick in, making it kinda pointless).

 

[Maruno]

According to what you are implying here, the very fact that someone is making a Pokemon Fan Game is not being imaginative. We are copying Game Freak's idea, and putting them into our games. I always like spacing things out, and the dual screen is a fun little thing to play around with.

I wasn't implying anything. I said exactly what I wanted to. You're just extrapolating something silly. Do you apply your "logic" to people who write fanfics rather than original stories?

Given that the whole point of us being here is that we want to make Pokémon games, I don't see how that can be used to claim we're being unoriginal.

And for the record, most of us are adding our own slants on the Pokéworld, some even creating our own continuities that specifically cannot fit into Game Freak's Pokéverse. So the most of us are being imaginative, actually, given Pokémon as a base.