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5th Gen Why do you think Black and White has recieved so many bad remarks?

Cyclone

Eye of the Storm
  • 3,331
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    • Seen Oct 3, 2016
    Well, i guess it's because Nintendo are trying so hard to make people forget about the old games and buy the new ones, but it seems that people got so attached to those games, they won't just let go. And, Some of the Pokemon are really, how to put this, Fake.
    They're over-doing it, i think they should make a re-make of Pokemon fire-red/ leaf-green, where the Pokemon move in battle, and follow you around!
    I can guarantee you that will not happen during the 3DS life. Ruby and Sapphire need remakes first, and someday who knows if Diamond and Pearl will be on the remake mill on another system (by which point Red/Green could hit second remakes, but I'd say it's more likely Sinnoh and Kanto get connected by airplane or something).

    Cyclone
     

    rubin

    czytała Krystyna Czubówna
  • 22
    Posts
    11
    Years
    • Seen Apr 15, 2014
    I can definitely say that BW were the worst in the series, and playing B2 has only further reaffirmed my stance. Tons of poor game design choices made this game look very, very bleak in comparison to the absolutely fantastic HG/SS, which was released just 1 year prior to BW1.

    The main problem I see here is that gen V put too much focus on things that were never a reason to play a Pokemon game in the first place, leaving other, much more important features behind. Seriously, why do we even need a plot in those games? I want to smash my way to victory with cool monsters I catch in the wild, not read a story of some autistic hippie kid with a big heart who wants everything good for poor, oppressed Pokemon.

    There was also a problem of difficulty. GameFreak has completely dropped the ball with that one. Why make the already piss-easy in-game even easier than before? Why make healing items completely obsolete by placing doctors on every route around (most of which were too short to warrant such an inclusion)? Why did they remove poison's damaging field effect? Why Audino and pre-E4 Lucky Egg were even allowed to exist? Pokemon hardly needs any grinding as it is. Adding those two is a complete overkill that wiped away any traces of a challenge this game ever had.

    On the contrary, why haven't they done ANYTHING to help the competitive scene, which, judging on the sheer amount of cheaters, is a much more pressing issue? I can tell you dozens of cool ideas just sitting here on my bum and typing on my keyboard, why can't the entire team of professionals do the same?

    It's things like this that make me lose faith in this franchise. Sometimes I can't wrap my head around on what goes inside the heads of those freaks (pun intended).

    I'll end here to keep this from being tl;dr, but I hope you see my point.
     

    Cyclone

    Eye of the Storm
  • 3,331
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    • Seen Oct 3, 2016
    The main problem I see here is that gen V put too much focus on things that were never a reason to play a Pokemon game in the first place, leaving other, much more important features behind. Seriously, why do we even need a plot in those games? I want to smash my way to victory with cool monsters I catch in the wild, not read a story of some autistic hippie kid with a big heart who wants everything good for poor, oppressed Pokemon.
    Whoa, stop right there. Every game has a team that is responsible for causing mischief in the region. Whether it be Team Rocket, Team Magma, Team Plasma, or Team HeyWeSuck (which could be used by all three), there is a mischief team in each new region. I actually found it refreshing that, in the E4 storyline, you don't end up getting to battle the champion from the get-go and have to replan your strategy around two upcoming battles against two full teams; one controlled by a misguided youth, and a second from the evil mastermind who misguided the youth. The storyline in B2/W2 is a continuation entirely from that of B/W. The mysterious N joins the good side trying to stop Ghetsis' plans (I won't spoil what little I know of the storyline even though many know it already) and helps the player at times, eventually releasing the dragon he's had for two years and making it catchable in Dragonspiral Tower. Even the post-E4 can be said to lead to the Sages reappearing, but not as part of Team Plasma in B2/W2.

    The people who started with Pokémon a long time ago are surely adults by now, so creating more dramatic storylines is an attempt to keep them interested. As an adult myself who purchased this as his first official Pokémon game owned, I found it rather enjoyable, though I still have my faults with parts of the game.

    There was also a problem of difficulty. GameFreak has completely dropped the ball with that one. Why make the already piss-easy in-game even easier than before? Why make healing items completely obsolete by placing doctors on every route around (most of which were too short to warrant such an inclusion)? Why did they remove poison's damaging field effect? Why Audino and pre-E4 Lucky Egg were even allowed to exist? Pokemon hardly needs any grinding as it is. Adding those two is a complete overkill that wiped away any traces of a challenge this game ever had.
    Difficulty is what you make it. I wanted to train and evolve all of my Pokémon as much as possible, so I grinded like there was no future grinding to be done. I had to. I wanted a completed Unova Pokédex (minus the three yet to be released), so I had to trade version exclusives to obtain Solosis and Rufflet and evolve them like any Pokémon (got an easy start with Rufflet, already at Lv.48 freshly caught from someone's Village Bridge). Because I knew what was coming up (a lot of guides had been written over two years), I intentionally leveled to at least a Gym Leader's or future opponent's level and walked in to wipe them out in just a few turns. The only part I found challenging in the main game was the final two battles I spoke of above; even with a team at Lv.54 and above, I still took some massive hits and had to be ready with my attacks, and a couple of my stars went down. I did complete it on my first attempt, however, but did I find it easy? Anything but; the battle with Ghetsis was, I think, easier than my battle with N because I built my team for Ghetsis' battle, but N had a couple of different types and only my over-leveling for hours saved me. And that Lucky Egg? I only used it while grinding before the E4. It would have taken hours more otherwise. And now I have two Lucky Eggs because a certain treasure hunter gave me one on Route 13. I'm now trying to complete the National Dex and someday open a Trade Shoppe in the Trade Corner. That is for the future however. :)

    On the contrary, why haven't they done ANYTHING to help the competitive scene, which, judging on the sheer amount of cheaters, is a much more pressing issue? I can tell you dozens of cool ideas just sitting here on my bum and typing on my keyboard, why can't the entire team of professionals do the same?
    I have yet to participate there. Besides, I wouldn't keep someone on my friend list if I found they were cheating to create superpowers. Play fairly and we'll fight again. When I'm ready. :)

    And get those ideas off your butt and post them!

    Cyclone
     
  • 29
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    • Seen Sep 27, 2013
    Rubix33 says- "Well I think it is the fact that the Pokemon look at lost worst then ever before."

    I say- "And ditto wasn't? xD"
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Galak says- "Well, i guess it's because Nintendo are trying so hard to make people forget about the old games and buy the new ones, but it seems that people got so attached to those games, they won't just let go. And, Some of the Pokemon are really, how to put this, Fake.
    They're over-doing it, i think they should make a re-make of Pokemon fire-red/ leaf-green, where the Pokemon move in battle, and follow you around!"

    I say- "I admit it, i agree, i just said "not fake" because i'm a ''defender'' of the series!"
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Rubin says negatively- "I can definitely say that BW were the worst in the series, and playing B2 has only further reaffirmed my stance. Tons of poor game design choices made this game look very, very bleak in comparison to the absolutely fantastic HG/SS, which was released just 1 year prior to BW1."

    I say- " You should try it again, one more time.. PLEASE?"
     
    Last edited:

    Soar

    n00b
  • 124
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    Haha i honestly cant think why :P I loved the game and saw no flaws. But it was my first, so maybe i wouldn't know as much
     

    Murkrow

    Nasty Plotting
  • 576
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    • Seen Nov 13, 2023
    The plot is already better than previous gen games, but B2W2 kinda brought it down a bit. But still, it could have been a lot more better.

    Too easy? Play challenge mode in B2W2. still not much difficult? then go for nuzlocke/restrictions in your ingame play then.

    Oh lots of stuff in compettitive gaming for BW and even better/worst (depending on how you see/like it?) for B2W2, what with the move tutors/therian formes/keldeo and other watnots
     

    s0nido

    turn up the engine
  • 1,590
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    I thought B/W were great games. The reason many people didn't like the games was probably because they were people who left the fandom long ago after they 'grew up' and stopped playing Pokemon after the generation they first played in. So it's understandable that any new generations would look really farfetched to them. Personally, though, the only flaw I found with B/W were the terrible-looking Pokemon. I really didn't like the way they looked and I was really looking forward to being able to import Pokemon from DPPt and HG/SS once I'd received the National Dex.
     

    Ho-Oh

    used Sacred Fire!
  • 35,992
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    The plot is already better than previous gen games, but B2W2 kinda brought it down a bit. But still, it could have been a lot more better.

    Too easy? Play challenge mode in B2W2. still not much difficult? then go for nuzlocke/restrictions in your ingame play then.

    Oh lots of stuff in compettitive gaming for BW and even better/worst (depending on how you see/like it?) for B2W2, what with the move tutors/therian formes/keldeo and other watnots

    Only thing is this thread isn't for how B2W2 has fixed B/W's flaws. :(

    However, for the competitive aspect, I barely see any complaints. People here dislike B2W2's metagame more than B/W's and many just haven't bothered with it, so idk. In fact, people disliked DP (or Plat? idk, whichever PC commonly complains about) more than B/W for the most part, afaik, so I don't think that'd generate a great amount of complaints if it was "on par with DPPT" pretty much.
     

    Shining Raichu

    Expect me like you expect Jesus.
  • 8,959
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    It was different, it changed things up and I liked that idea in theory - but in practice I ended up finding it too different. It changed too much stuff all at once - it was revolutionary rather than evolutionary, and I ended up feeling alienated.

    I can't speak for everybody else, but those are the reasons for my bad remarks :P
     

    rayan.b

    i like cinnamon :)
  • 60
    Posts
    11
    Years
    Well, i guess it's because Nintendo are trying so hard to make people forget about the old games and buy the new ones, but it seems that people got so attached to those games, they won't just let go. And, Some of the Pokemon are really, how to put this, Fake.
    They're over-doing it, i think they should make a re-make of Pokemon fire-red/ leaf-green, where the Pokemon move in battle, and follow you around!

    actually nintendo are giving allot of attention to the old games

    1. in every generation they make a remake of 2 games from 3 generations backward

    2. until black and white they always put pokemon of previous generations in the game

    and theres no pokemon that is more "fake" the jynx -_-

    i like cinnamon :)
     
  • 283
    Posts
    12
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    • Seen Apr 14, 2013
    I can definitely say that BW were the worst in the series, and playing B2 has only further reaffirmed my stance. Tons of poor game design choices made this game look very, very bleak in comparison to the absolutely fantastic HG/SS, which was released just 1 year prior to BW1.

    Bad game design choices? Like what?

    The main problem I see here is that gen V put too much focus on things that were never a reason to play a Pokemon game in the first place, leaving other, much more important features behind.

    The main reason to play a Pokemon game is to capture Pokemon and train them to battle other players. That's still there.

    Seriously, why do we even need a plot in those games? I want to smash my way to victory with cool monsters I catch in the wild, not read a story of some autistic hippie kid with a big heart who wants everything good for poor, oppressed Pokemon.

    1: People have complained forever about the lack of a decent storyline in the Pokemon games. Now, people are complaining about having TOO MUCH storyline. The fandom is impossible to please.

    2: The character you play as is not you. YOU might want to do those things, but the characters have a story to tell. Even as Red you were playing a role. When it comes to these kinds of games, we are actors playing different characters.

    There was also a problem of difficulty. GameFreak has completely dropped the ball with that one. Why make the already piss-easy in-game even easier than before?

    Because the target audience is kids. Young kids at that. I use to have problems with the games at times, but now I'm an adult. I can handle it. But I didn't run through Black without losing a few times either.

    And note the addition of Challenge Mode in B2W2, so they addressed those concerns, even though I don't personally think it was needed.

    Why make healing items completely obsolete by placing doctors on every route around (most of which were too short to warrant such an inclusion)?

    Doctors can't heal your Pokemon in battle, and if I remember correctly, you have to beat the doctor first.

    Why did they remove poison's damaging field effect?

    This one I don't know. I actually agree that poison's field damage should have been left alone.

    Why Audino and pre-E4 Lucky Egg were even allowed to exist?

    Audino is one of those typical "Cute Pokemon". Girls play Pokemon too, so there needs to be a few "girly" Pokemon for them to enjoy as well. And you don't have to use the Lucky Egg.

    Pokemon hardly needs any grinding as it is. Adding those two is a complete overkill that wiped away any traces of a challenge this game ever had.

    Except you don't have to use either of them.

    On the contrary, why haven't they done ANYTHING to help the competitive scene, which, judging on the sheer amount of cheaters, is a much more pressing issue? I can tell you dozens of cool ideas just sitting here on my bum and typing on my keyboard, why can't the entire team of professionals do the same?

    Because most people (being the kids) don't care about competitive gaming. They play for fun and with their friends.

    It's things like this that make me lose faith in this franchise. Sometimes I can't wrap my head around on what goes inside the heads of those freaks (pun intended).

    What goes on inside the heads of the folks of Game Freak is that they try to design a game that ANYBODY can just pick and play whenever they decide to. They want the games to be able to appeal to everyone, not just one particular group of people. More importantly, it has to appeal to the youngsters. They're the ones that make GF money, not the teens and not the adults.
     
    Last edited:

    Snowdrop

    Back and ready to babble!
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    Well I thought the game got nothing but praise from seeing the 40/40 game score and excellent sales... but I'm reading through this topic and I guess I'm seeing otherwise? I thought perhaps the game was a wee short, but I still thought it was fantastic. But if it's too easy the next time I play I'll just make it more challenging for myself, maybe take the monotype challenge xD

    I'm not going to argue because this is all opinion, but I think maybe some hardcore Pokemon gamers might just be being a bit harsh. Or not. I don't know. What I know is that: I loved the graphics, I love being able to use TMs more than once, and I love the classic Pokemon formula. What I'm not so fond of is the clichéd plot (must it ALWAYS be world domination). And that's about it. So my best guess is that it's receiving bad remarks because people don't like the Pokemon designs, they felt the game was too easy, or that it had a bad storyline.
     

    Cyclone

    Eye of the Storm
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    1. in every generation they make a remake of 2 games from 3 generations backward

    2. until black and white they always put pokemon of previous generations in the game
    1. It's actually two generations back. R/S/E/FR/LG are the same generation, as are D/P/P/HG/SS.

    2. You haven't visited Routes 11-15 yet, have you? You haven't done any fishing, have you?

    Cyclone
     

    Orrun

    Pokemon (Event) Collector
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    Being an active World of Warcraft player, I can say that the reason B/W would receive any bad remarks is because the media wants to label it "old".

    I know Pokemon is much older than WoW, but all I'm saying is that things seem to get dull after awhile. Numbers go down because some unfortunate people start to think they need to grow up from childish video games, unlike us here at the PC.
     

    Cyclone

    Eye of the Storm
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    Being an active World of Warcraft player, I can say that the reason B/W would receive any bad remarks is because the media wants to label it "old".

    I know Pokemon is much older than WoW, but all I'm saying is that things seem to get dull after awhile. Numbers go down because some unfortunate people start to think they need to grow up from childish video games, unlike us here at the PC.
    If Pokémon is old, then Mario would be considered ancient. Yet people still go googoogaga over the latest entry featuring him. See New Super Mario Bros. U and New Super Mario Bros. 2 (Wii U and DS/3DS respectively) to see what I mean. And yes, I'm buying that.

    I think if things are different for some people, it could be a means of trying to keep the franchise interesting over the years. After all, the first generation of Pokémon is now old enough to drive. That's a long time for the series. Also, the third (or is it the fourth?) generation I believe had the highest selling games in the entire franchise.

    Cyclone
     

    Cerberus87

    Mega Houndoom, baby!
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    Why Audino and pre-E4 Lucky Egg were even allowed to exist? Pokemon hardly needs any grinding as it is. Adding those two is a complete overkill that wiped away any traces of a challenge this game ever had.

    Are you joking? Audino is the best addition in BW. It makes grinding a lot more convenient. I've never heard of anyone that liked grinding, seems like you need your head checked.
     
  • 623
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    I think Black and White has received so many bad remarks because after the 5th generation of new Pokemon, the audience is used to seeing slightly tweaked gameplay from the last generation with a new list of different pokemon.

    If I wanted expansion packs, I'd feel more comfortable with trying these games out more like I used to. But it seems the ones in charge of setting production guidelines for these games are just trying hard not to make these games look like expansion packs or updates when that's what they end up being as. I don't have an issue with the design of the Pokemon, or the style in which they're portrayed, I've just seen it all before for the past 6 games. And I have the same, if not a stronger, opinion with Mario games.

    A complete series re-haul would be nice. Change the battle system entirely and focus on a different style of game-play for a generation instead of just making these remakes of previous games that get pushed too far and cute little side titles that don't get pushed far enough.
     

    Pokemon Trainer UV

    Attractively foolish
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    I'm sure a lot of people have already mentioned this but; Black and White didn't really add much new to the table (Gameplay-wise, the interface and graphics were great). I felt that the story was pretty "meh", I didn't like most of the designs (Although there were a nice handful of really cool-looking Pokemon), and the game was just very linear and extremely easy.
    I haven't really gone through much of the Post-Game yet, so I can't really say anything about it, but so far it seems to be just "okay", it isn't anything special.

    I still enjoyed the game though, and I'm still looking forward to Black and White 2, but to me, HeartGold remains the best Pokemon game to date.

    inb4 someone taking every single sentence and giving a sarcastic response
     
    Last edited:

    Cyclone

    Eye of the Storm
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    Now that I'm playing SS, my opinion is modified somewhat. I am starting to consider B/W a downgrade from what SS did. SS seems more lifelike, more real. On the other hand, I'm tired of battling nothing but Hoothoot in National Park after 8 p.m.; the wild Pokémon needed a better mix at all times of day. The Day/Night split removal might have been a good modification in that sense.

    Cyclone
     
  • 184
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    Now that I'm playing SS, my opinion is modified somewhat. I am starting to consider B/W a downgrade from what SS did. SS seems more lifelike, more real. On the other hand, I'm tired of battling nothing but Hoothoot in National Park after 8 p.m.; the wild Pokémon needed a better mix at all times of day. The Day/Night split removal might have been a good modification in that sense.

    Cyclone
    Guess it's down to personal preference. I started Pokemon Diamond very very late, and midway through the game I switched to HG, and in less than a month BW launched so I got my copy of Pokemon Black, and trust me, it's just hard to get back to both games. I get bored by both HG and Diamond early on. Don't really know why. Maybe it's my tendency of feeling drowsy and falling asleep every time I play an older pokemon game (and I don't know why I'm like that).
     
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