If a democratic country suddenly turned into a murderous dictator country, it's a complete U-turn in governing system which doesn't have any similarities to the previous governing system at all, so if people don't like the new government, it's understandable since it's totally different from the old one and that any reasons they give cannot be used to describe the old democratic government. Like I said, apart from the weird new characters, are there any solid reasons you nostalgic people give out? Here are some baseless excuses your camp gives:
1. Gen 5 pokemon don't look like natural animals. Klink and Vanillish aren't natural animals. Jynx, Magnemite and Ditto are all natural animals I guess. And we have bats without eyes in real life eh?
2. Gen 5 pokemon designs are lacklustre, too simple and are not creative enough. Klinks is just a gear with eyes. Diglett, Ditto, Voltorb. Nuff said.
3. (Since they can't say Gen 5 pokemon are lacklustre in design) Gen 5 pokemon are overly creative and spoils the simplicity of pokemon. Please make up your mind guys. But still, Gyarados, Kangaskhan, even Feraligatr and the 3 dogs from gen 2 (whom are still considered original pokemon) are quite complex and creative designs.
4. Gen 5 pokemon are fake copies of their predecessors, their design is copied from the older generations, like Woobat is a fake Zubat. So a Kabutops is a fake Scyther eh? An Oddish is a fake Bulbasaur? A Clefairy is a fake Jigglypuff (I seriously though both of them were related when I started playing pokemon)?
5. Gen 5 pokemon don't look like pokemon. Contradiction from the top. Again, please make up your minds.
6. I mean they look like digimon more than they look like pokemon! Blastoise doesn't look like a digimon I guess? Golem? And why does Agumon remind me of a Charmander without flames.
7. Gen 5 pokemon should not be food. Vanillish is an ice cream, not a pokemon. Eggs are also food. Plus people like eating Farfetch'ds as well, therefore indirectly turning it into food.
8. Gen 5 pokemon are too girlish compared to previous generations. I think we've already solved this lol.
9. Woobat is a lousy pokemon compared to Zubat. Why compare 2 different things to each other? They were not meant to be the same. If we had a star pokemon which has the psychic ground type like Lunatone and Solrock, I bet you people will go: This is a fake staryu!
10. No pokemon out of the original 151 are real pokemon! This is obviously a nostalgic statement. It's like saying you will never have another girlfriend after your girl ditches you. It's called not moving on.
Then after all the above were proven wrong, comes the ultimate superpower excuse: Pokemon is very subjective. We like the older generation for no reason at all. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. O_o
Basically, with pokemon being the main reason why people dislike gen 5, it's very obvious that they can't accept new pokemon. They might accept change in other parts of the game, but not the pokemon because they can see these pokemon and actually nurture them and have grown attached to them over the years.
So now for the non-pokemon design related reasons (note that this is not a reply to the person I quoted above because he/she only talked about pokemon designs):
1. Metagame is the same. Well what other metagame changes do you want? The basic rule is do not fix anything that is not broken. If they did a change in the already great metagame and it ended up being lousy, you'll be here criticizing their metagame change and saying they should have stuck to the old metagame.
2. Auto run is disabled. How hard is pressing a B button? Haven't the previous generations trained you all enough to hold down the B button automatically? It's understandable if you all started from HGSS though.
3. Lack of postgame. GSC and HGSS are the only game with an actual post game that is long enough to be the game itself. Since game freak has only made other regions available only for Johto, then you all should understand it's kind of a Johto exclusive feature, and taking it away and putting it into other games would make every pokemon game seem the same. Plus BW (as I pointed out many times) actually has a bigger post game than RSE and RBGY.
4. There are no pokemon following you! I didn't see everyone complain about every game after Pokemon Yellow because there was no Pikachu following you.
5. The people don't look like people! They look like weird cosplayers! Okay, point taken. There is nothing left to rebut as I totally agree. Maybe the Japanese might be able to relate to this one since they have professors with shocking orange hair and maid cafes.
By the way, speaking about the boy character in BW and HGSS, in reply to HenkieDePost, Do you notice that the boy character in BW is closer to Ash, while the boy in HGSS has a hairstyle that is totally impossible to style in real life? Try wearing a cap and have a fringe that sticks out so well. You'll just get a tuff of hair stuck flat on your forehead. Sometimes I just feel that you're unlucky in picking examples, because you always pick the wrong ones where there are other more solid examples to give. Nevermind, can't blame you because you just played a small part of the game. Glad that you are giving BW2 a chance.
Sorry man, but you don't convince me at all. At first your post might look like solid and strong, but I urge you to take a look at it. Some things you said have never been said, you take two completely different post and merge them together, you think you can disprove opinions which have nothing to do with facts, but with personal preferences, and so on. I am going to try to tell you where you are right and where you are wrong.
Let's see your first point. You tell us that we said that Gen V pokemon do not look like animals, and then you give us some pokemon which indeed don't look like animals. I agree with this part. Pokemon doesn't have to look like animals, but your examples are not good comparisons to the examples given by the anti B and W community. Klink and Vanillish are pokemon which are almost entirely the objects they try to resemble. That's right, they resemble real life objects. Vanillish is almost truely an icecone, only with a face and Klink is a gear with a face. Magnemite and magneton might be of the similar concept, so in that way you are right, but with jynx and ditto you really are missing the point. Jynx and Ditto might not be based on animals, but they are not based on objects either, while Vanillish and Klink are truely just objects with a moveset. I understand your point, but the examples are just not very good chosen. The problem people have with these two, is that they are just objects with a face, not that they are not animal based.
Then about point 2 and 3, which I am going to review together. These two points are very weak, Why? You mix the posts of 2 users together and then act as if they have been written by the same person. You first point out that 'we' while only one poster has ever written this, think that the new pokemon are lacluster in design. Then you give examples of pokemon which are not very creative as well. That was a good thing, because they are indeed not creative. But then you suddenly say: since they can't say gen 5 pokemon are lacluster in design, they suddenly are overcreative.
What are you talking about man? I never said B and W pokemon are lacluster in design, but you suddenly use someone else's argument and make it seem that everyone who thinks B and W pokemon are not good first thought they were lacluster, and when they found it it didin't work they suddenly say they are overcreative. I am the only one who said anything about overcreative, while the other poster is the only one who said they were lacluster. And then suddenly you act like these two posts are written by the same person, and by everyone who dislikes B and W?. This renders your response on point 2 and 3 unreliable and irrelevant. Don't think that everyone who dislikes B and W went through this thinkingpattern and don't that the whole anti B and W community thinks the same. This is called overgeneralisation.
Then the part about their predecessors. I never said that the pokemon from B and W are "fake" copies of the pokemon from the generations before that. I never said they are fake, and I never said they are exact copies. Woobat has the same role of Zubat in the older generations. And that is a flying cave bat which you can only find in dark areas. It never had anything to do with types (although you keep saying that) and never had anything to do with names. It has to do with the role in the game. If you just think clear for a second, you can easily understand that the role of Woobat is almost exactly the same of Zubat. And if it comes down to the role in the game, I think zubat did a way better role than Woobat. Woobat does come of from a real life bat, but that doesn't mean that because it comes from a real animal it MUST be perfect for a pokemon game. I still stay with my point that Woobat just isn't a good design for a pokemon. I see this argument from the defenders alot. Emboar is based on a chinese sage, so you can't say that his design is bad. Otherwise you have no respect for his background. Woobat is based on a reallife bat, so you can't say that Woobat just doesn't fit in, because then you are practically denying that there is a real life bat which has a heart shaped nose. The background of these pokemon might be good, but that doesn't mean they look good in a pokemon game.
Furthermore, oddish and bulbasaur? Why do you keep saying that? I have said around 100 times now that the most important factor of comparing a pokemon to another one is the role in the game. Bulbasaur is a very rare starter, while oddish is just a weak grass pokemon. The role in the game is different, while the role of Woobat and Zubat is identical. They might look like each other, but that doesn't mean that we could also have had oddish as an starter while bulbasaur is terrorizing Ilex forest. Kabutops and Scyther might even be a worse example. Kabutops and Scyther are not only completely different in design, kabutops is also a thought to be extinct pokemon, while Scyther is just a ordinary bug pokemon. You wont even find them close to each other if Kabutops was a normal pokemon. The area would be extremely different, the role is extremely different and so on.
As for point 5, I never said they don't look like pokemon. Again, please don't use the words one poster might have used and put them here as: everyone who doesn't like B and W thinks this? I only used this argument as, they don't feel like pokemon to me in the end of my post, because I just can't 'connect' with them like I did with even the Gen IV pokemon. I think immersion is important in this game, but that is getting really hard if every five seconds you have to think: WTH IS THIS CREATURE?! That is by the way only my opinion, so please don't use it in your response as 'everyone who dislikes B and W thinks that the gen V pokemon are not feeling good.:'
I can't say much about point 6. I haver never heard someone saying this, and I think this is a quite silly argument. They still don't look like digimons ^^
I also never said anything about point 7, so I am not going to say anything about this one either.
About point 8, no, we have never solved this point, and that is the funny thing. First, how can you solve an opinion? Secondly, you were having trouble making a list of about 15 pokemon, while I could easily say alot of pokemon which looked extremely strange and fluffy. You also make it seem that we said ALL pokemon are fluffly. No, they are not. I have said numerous times that there are some cool pokemon, but it takes way to long to get them: Evolutions, Legendary or dragon. Your entire list was made with only these three kinds of pokemon. Please, name some pokemon then which are easy to get and look 'cool' ;p.(Except for RoggenRola and Sandile).
I think I have adressed this point already in my post, but I will say it again for you: Yes, their intention was for Woobat to replace Zubat. They HAVE THE SAME ROLE. It doesn't matter they don't have the same types, that argument has nothing to do with it. They are both designed to be the cave dwelling bat pokemon. And when it comes to that, I like zubat better. This argument of your's about Woobat is getting old, could you please stop using this in your rant? This could have easily fitted in with the fluffly pokemon argument.
I also never said anything about no pokemon following you, so I am going to leave this open. The same about 10. I liked every generation except this one, so this point doesn't involve me.
Then your conclusion. In the end, alot of points were proven incorrect. And that is the funny thing. First of all, you think you can prove opinions incorrect. If I say emboar looks bad, and you say emboar looks good, how can you PROVE that my opinion is incorrect? Half of your arguments don't even make sense, or are based on words people have never said, or combined sentences. Also, the ultimate conclusion about subjective pokemon is also a tad strange. This all comes back to the opinion part again. It is my opinion that I don't like the Gen V pokemon. We also give you argument after argument that we don't like the Gen V pokemon. You can't life with that and are defending yourself till the very end it seems, but the fact that our arguments don't even reach you because you put a steel shield around yourself does not mean that we suddenly only like the only generations for no reason at all. You just don't even care to take a look at our arguments it seems. That means that your conclusion is also incorrect. You got your comclusion to begin with only from my post. But I did not say we suddenly only like the older generation with no reason at all. I just said that we are entitled to our opinions, and the fact that I say in that post that I just like the older generation better doesn't mean I have no arguments. They have been said alot of times now, but whats the point of saying them over and over and over again while you don't listen?
About the non pokemon-design things, I have not much to say. I find most of those arguments silly as well. When it comes to the non pokemon side, this game is a fast improvement over the older ones. I really, really like the new battle system as an example. But about picking the wrong examples, I have one thing to say. My example wasn't even so bad. The guy from silver indeed did not have that 'strange' hair, but it would have been pretty hard for them to even give him strange hair. How is this going to look like on the map? Then about the guys from black and soulsilver. Although the guy from HGSS has somewhat impossible hair, it didn't look idiotic or extremely strange. If you see the guy from black you think: Dont they have a haircutter in the pokemon world, seriously? When I see him I really can't stop thinking about how hard he would have been pushed around if he was on my school. The guy from HGSS would probably not be the most popular kid, but atleast he didn't look so strange in comparison to the guy in black. It isn't only about the hair, it is about the general impression. The guy from HGSS did had fairly normal clothes to begin with. :P His hair isn't super strange either although it might be impossible. They guy from black has strange clothes, and even stranger hair, it looks really, really strange. That is my point.
I hope this is the conclusion to this debate. You might have had some good points, but there are also alot of arguments where you flat-out lose, mainly because of combining to posts together, or making false statements. Also overgeneralisation is a problem in your post. I also hope the mods will not delete this post. I try to stay as much on topic as possible, but I just have to respond to this post, although most of my post is about pokemon designs, again. I really try to let this be the last one mainly about pokemon designs, but I really feel I had to make this final post.
