Will the older games eventually be forgotten?

[Gligar]

I'll tell you a fact right now. All the pokemon games that were on the Gameboy, the DS and the 3DS will never be forgotten. The only other games that will never be forgotten for sure is Colosseum. Poke-park gains an honorable mention, but maybe it'll be forgotten.

 

[BettyNewbie]

If FRLG had P/S split it would be basically the same as B2W2, for example.

I wouldn't go that far. Even with a P/S split, it would still have crappy GBA graphics, a limited selection of Pokémon, no Day/Night, and lack a ton of features that are standard in later games.

Plus, there's no way to play it on a modern handheld, anyways, and while you can always use emulators, they're, well, less-than-legal and aren't meant to be a solution to anything.

 

[Cerberus87]

I wouldn't go that far. Even with a P/S split, it would still have crappy GBA graphics, a limited selection of Pokémon, no Day/Night, and lack a ton of features that are standard in later games.

Plus, there's no way to play it on a modern handheld, anyways, and while you can always use emulators, they're, well, less-than-legal and aren't meant to be a solution to anything.

I meant battle mechanics. When I saw your notification I thought you were going to mention the fact FRLG and RSE have less "content" than later games (they lack the movepool and ability improvements from more recent games).

Emulators themselves aren't illegal! They're a godsend! :P I have a lot of sympathy for a project like MAME, for example. Technically you can play the games legally, too, provided you own them in physical format. Not the case with most that use emulators, but hey, I can smuggle cocaine in a car, doesn't mean driving cars should become illegal. ;) Emulators are good, because hardware dies or becomes obsolete (DOS-based machines for example) and emulators allow historic preservation of various systems.

 

[BettyNewbie]

I meant battle mechanics..

Are graphics not a part of that, too? Plus, FRLG lack triple/rotation battles, anyways, and that's not even mentioning the fact that B2W2's standards are a Generation old now.

When I saw your notification I thought you were going to mention the fact FRLG and RSE have less "content" than later games (they lack the movepool and ability improvements from more recent games)..

And, they certainly do. That's one reason why RSE were remade.

Emulators themselves aren't illegal! They're a godsend! :P I have a lot of sympathy for a project like MAME, for example. Technically you can play the games legally, too, provided you own them in physical format. Not the case with most that use emulators, but hey, I can smuggle cocaine in a car, doesn't mean driving cars should become illegal. ;) Emulators are good, because hardware dies or becomes obsolete (DOS-based machines for example) and emulators allow historic preservation of various systems.

Hey, I play games on emulators, too, but that doesn't make ROMs 100% legal. (There's a reason why we're not allowed to link to them.) Plus, I don't think GF sees emulation as a solution to this problem, anyways, or otherwise, they would've just put RSE on the Wii U Virtual Console instead of making ORAS.

And, finding physical copies of the older games is a nightmare nowadays; most are either bootlegs or are outrageously expensive. And, then, you need an older handheld to actually play them on...

 

[Cerberus87]

Are graphics not a part of that, too? Plus, FRLG lack triple/rotation battles, anyways, and that's not even mentioning the fact that B2W2's standards are a Generation old now.

They are, but then DPPt are less 3D than BW, too.

What I wanted to say is that, if 3rd gen had P/S split, we'd have had the same battle mechanics for 10 years (until 2012, considering the Japanese releases). Still, 5th gen didn't have anything that wasn't in 4th gen, it just added content, not new mechanics. Triples/Rotation didn't catch on, although I find especially Triples very fun.

And, they certainly do. That's one reason why RSE were remade.

I disagree, I think they were remade because of nostalgia mostly. The fact they had the most up to date mechanics was just a desirable side effect since they used the XY engine.

Hey, I play games on emulators, too, but that doesn't make ROMs 100% legal. (There's a reason why we're not allowed to link to them.) Plus, I don't think GF sees emulation as a solution to this problem, anyways, or otherwise, they would've just put RSE on the Wii U Virtual Console instead of making ORAS.

ROMs themselves aren't illegal. What's illegal is distributing them. If I so desire, I can dump a ROM from a cart and play it on an emulator on my PC, but I'm not allowed to distribute it. It's the same thing as ripping a BD you own to watch its contents on a PC.

I'd be fine with old Pokémon games being VC releases, BTW. The classic games have their value because the artistic sense, as I call it, is different from the remakes. HGSS did a great thing with the GB Sounds item, even though I prefer the new music for the remakes. The thing is, Pokémon's main feature is connectivity, and older games lose their connectivity over time. If Nintendo and GF really wanted they could figure a way to transfer Pokémon from emulated VC games all the way to the more recent games, especially since the stat system has been the same since 2002, but they'd rather make you buy the new shiny remakes which earn them more money.

And, finding physical copies of the older games is a nightmare nowadays; most are either bootlegs or are outrageously expensive. And, then, you need an older handheld to actually play them on...

Yeah but a lot of games suffer from this fate. There are tons of good N64 games (especially from Rareware) for example that were never rereleased because of legal constraints, so they're stuck on the N64. If you don't own the old system and the carts, you're stuck with emulators (and N64 emulators aren't exactly great). :(

 

[BettyNewbie]

They are, but then DPPt are less 3D than BW, too.

But, DPP/HGSS, at least, have some 3D. Plus, their sprites are far superior to anything RSE/FRLG had. Gen 4 was the first Generation where nearly every Pokémon appeared with their canon design and color scheme.

What I wanted to say is that, if 3rd gen had P/S split, we'd have had the same battle mechanics for 10 years (until 2012, considering the Japanese releases). Still, 5th gen didn't have anything that wasn't in 4th gen, it just added content, not new mechanics. Triples/Rotation didn't catch on, although I find especially Triples very fun.

Now, that is true. But, saying that the presence of a P/S Split makes RSE/FRLG "like B2W2" isn't.

I disagree, I think they were remade because of nostalgia mostly. The fact they had the most up to date mechanics was just a desirable side effect since they used the XY engine.

A game can be remade for more than one reason. Sure, there was a lot of nostalgia for Hoenn, but there was also the simple fact that RSE were horribly outdated, hard to find, and unplayable on modern hardware. ORAS solved all of those problems.

ROMs themselves aren't illegal. What's illegal is distributing them. If I so desire, I can dump a ROM from a cart and play it on an emulator on my PC, but I'm not allowed to distribute it. It's the same thing as ripping a BD you own to watch its contents on a PC.

Problem is that if you don't own a physical copy to dump (as is often the case with older Pokémon games), then you have no choice but to go download a redistributed ROM... Which gets into murky legal territory.

I'd be fine with old Pokémon games being VC releases, BTW. The classic games have their value because the artistic sense, as I call it, is different from the remakes. HGSS did a great thing with the GB Sounds item, even though I prefer the new music for the remakes. The thing is, Pokémon's main feature is connectivity, and older games lose their connectivity over time. If Nintendo and GF really wanted they could figure a way to transfer Pokémon from emulated VC games all the way to the more recent games, especially since the stat system has been the same since 2002, but they'd rather make you buy the new shiny remakes which earn them more money.

That's exactly what I'm saying. If GF had any interest in emulation, then that's what we would've gotten instead of ORAS. It would take too much time to make them compatible with the newest games (especially in the case of RBY/GSC, where it would be almost impossible), and the payoff isn't enough for it to be worth the effort.

Yeah but a lot of games suffer from this fate. There are tons of good N64 games (especially from Rareware) for example that were never rereleased because of legal constraints, so they're stuck on the N64. If you don't own the old system and the carts, you're stuck with emulators (and N64 emulators aren't exactly great). :(

Yeah, that is pretty sad. Some of those games (like Banjo-Kazooie and Perfect Dark) have been remade for the Xbox LIVE Arcade (since Microsoft owns Rare now), but most are long gone.

 

[OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire]

I used to play III alongside IV until Gen V...since then I've dumped my old games...

By the way there is a sizeable dislike for Gen V already... so right now it's the DS games getting the boot...

 

[Hikamaru]

The irony is that the remakes might play a role in making the old ones forgotten, since the remakes tend to be superior, or rather, have less outdated mechanics. If FRLG had P/S split it would be basically the same as B2W2, for example.

^ That is kind of true - there are people who plain flat-out prefer the remakes to the 8 or 16-bit original versions of the games, and i'm basically one of them. Not to mention Generation III didn't have reusable TMs, so there's that.

Absolutely true. I do agree that with the existence of remakes the older games will fade into obscurity, especially because changes in mechanics makes the remake superior over the old version. Compare R/S to OR/AS, where the latter has reusable TMs, physical/special split and other current mechanics, plus the originals are very hard to play these days on modern systems which don't support GBA games plus they are heavily outdated so a remake was needed.

So, yeah I am correct that older Pokemon games are becoming outdated and forgotten, especially with the advances in technology and mechanics when a new generation rolls around.

 

[BettyNewbie]

So, yeah I am correct that older Pokemon games are becoming outdated and forgotten, especially with the advances in technology and mechanics when a new generation rolls around.

Especially, when it's the Generation where neither its originals or its remakes have modern features or can be accessed on modern hardware. That's an entire storyline that's simply unplayable for most people nowadays.

 

[Virtual Chatot]

That's an entire storyline that's simply unplayable for most people nowadays.

I'd bet a pretty penny we'll see a Kanto reboot for the 3DS soon enough, with all the benefits of the modern game mechanics put into place. Maybe a Pokémon Yellow 3DS-remake for the twentieth anniversary?

Point is, I don't think we need to worry about a group of players not being able to experience a foundational part of the Pokémon storyline. The trend is for reboots to be made and I see no reason why Kanto will get passed up simply seeing as though we've had a Johto and Hoenn brought up to speed, as it were. Even so, for those people who are actually curious there's nothing stopping them from loading it up on an emulator on their cell phone asking their friends if they have an old Gameboy and copy of Blue they can borrow.

 

[BettyNewbie]

Maybe a Pokémon Yellow 3DS-remake for the twentieth anniversary?

That's what I'd like to see, myself. Yellow was the best Gen 1 game, and I never liked how FRLG ignored it (ironic how the Gen 2 remakes referenced Yellow more, with the following Pokémon and Cerulean Cave's layout).

Even so, for those people who are actually curious there's nothing stopping them from asking their friends if they have an old Gameboy and copy of Blue they can borrow.

That's assuming that they know someone that does own a Gameboy and Blue cart and that said Blue cart has a working battery. :P Sure, you can find them on eBay, too, but get ready to wade through a bunch of bootlegs and plop down $200 for an original.

Plus, a lot of people can't stand to play games that lack a P/S Split, and even FRLG doesn't have one, let alone RBY.

 

[DyingWillFlareon]

I'd bet a pretty penny we'll see a Kanto reboot for the 3DS soon enough, with all the benefits of the modern game mechanics put into place. Maybe a Pokémon Yellow 3DS-remake for the twentieth anniversary?

It would just be LOVELY to watch Prof Oak catch your starter in 3D, then have Blue push you to get Eevee in 3D, then get a Pikahu to follow in 3D, go through Unknown Dungeon in 3D.....
This would be the beat thing ever the more and more I think about it.~ ^.^ Not to mention red's canon team includes Espeon, imossible to get in any current Kanto game as Espeon wasn't in Gen I and FRLG had no clock, for people who want to actually remake his team that'd be nice!~
We could reuse the name Delta for Delta Yellow *cough I didn't say that earlier* instead of Delta Emerald, ad it's clear Delta Emerald probably wouldn't happen(but who knows?).

That's assuming that they know someone that does own a Gameboy and Blue cart and that said Blue cart has a working battery. :P Sure, you can find them on eBay, too, but get ready to wade through a bunch of bootlegs and plop down $200 for an original.

Plus, a lot of people can't stand to play games that lack a P/S Split, and even FRLG doesn't have one, let alone RBY.

I always use Amazon for stuff, why does everyone complain about eBay? 8D In fact I was specifically trying to find a Green English teanslated bootleg on Amazon but they only showed two results for the original Green Japanese version and a creppypasta Black version(which I do NOT want mind you). Is there some sort of unspoken poke-law that Amazon isn't good or something? *glances nervously at White and SoulSilver she got from Amazon*

Also I enjoy going back and forth from P/S Slpit to no split, it challenges ya. 'w'

 

[Virtual Chatot]

Plus, a lot of people can't stand to play games that lack a P/S Split, and even FRLG doesn't have one, let alone RBY.

If people are curious about the storyline and heritage of these games I don't think the absence of the physical/special split is really going to keep people away. In any case, the R/B/Y/G/S/C battle mechanics had plenty more wrong with them than just that.

I suppose one could also very well argue that R/B/Y didn't really have a storyline- there's the three or four skirmishes with Team Rocket and, well, then what? Beat the Elite 4 and capture Mewtwo? What was really his point considering post-Indigo Plateau gameplay was more or less crippled considering you couldn't face trainers again and the storyline just stopped (G/S/C did attempt to fix this by including Kanto after the Elite 4, and FR/LG fixed this problem with the V.S. Seeker and the Sevii islands)?

Ultimately, the question that must be asked is whether or not there's much of a story to be missed out on. I would L-O-V-E to see a Yellow remake fix these problems for the twentieth anniversary and really flesh out the story as it should have been from the beginning. If Pokémon were to end any time soon as a series I couldn't think of a more proper way to do it than to make it come around full circle to the beginning.

 

[BettyNewbie]

I always use Amazon for stuff, why does everyone complain about eBay? 8D In fact I was specifically trying to find a Green English teanslated bootleg on Amazon but they only showed two results for the original Green Japanese version and a creppypasta Black version(which I do NOT want mind you). Is there some sort of unspoken poke-law that Amazon isn't good or something? *glances nervously at White and SoulSilver she got from Amazon*

I think you're just more likely to find the really old games on eBay than on Amazon (which is a good source for more recent games like the aforementioned White and SoulSilver).

If people are curious about the storyline and heritage of these games I don't think the absence of the physical/special split is really going to keep people away. In any case, the R/B/Y/G/S/C battle mechanics had plenty more wrong with them than just that.

Well, with Gen 2, one could simply play HGSS instead if the lack of a P/S Split scares them away. (Which is pretty important for a lot of people.) It's Gen 1 that doesn't have that option outside of hacks.

Ultimately, the question that must be asked is whether or not there's much of a story to be missed out on. I would L-O-V-E to see a Yellow remake fix these problems for the twentieth anniversary and really flesh out the story as it should have been from the beginning. If Pokémon were to end any time soon as a series I couldn't think of a more proper way to do it than to make it come around full circle to the beginning.

No, Gen 1 didn't have the deepest story, but knowing its story does make Gen 2's more meaningful. You see, that's the thing you're missing, Gen 1 received a direct follow-up, and while you don't need to know anything about Gen 1 to play GSC/HGSS, it makes things like the return of Team Rocket, Blue being in Viridian Gym, and the Mt. Silver battle mean more. By missing Gen 1, you miss a good chunk of Gen 2's backstory.

Now, I'd definitely want new remakes to flesh out the story and bring them up to modern standards. That was a big complaint of mine with FRLG. (And, to a lesser extent, HGSS, which fleshed out Gen 2's story, but failed to keep continuity with FRLG in the same way that GSC did with RBY. The next Kanto/Johto remakes need to be released much closer to each other, IMO.)

 

[PoK3Matr1x]

Yes, all games lose memorability with age. Even pokemon.