Woman arrested after racist rant on tram

[Captain Fabio]

*WARNING! EXCESSIVE SWEARING IN VIDEO*

This is certainly painful to watch. I got rather angry with parts of this and I think she is lucky to be alive.
If she didn't have a child with her, I think there would have been a fight, no I know there would have been.

What is your view on this?

Please note, this isn't the view of the majority of England, this is just her drugged up, drunken opinion.
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[Charliezard]

It's only words, I'd just ignore it. I mainly have a problem with her being like that around the kid she may be a lost cause but that kid isn't and I'd rather have less people like her being raised.

Depending on my mood, however, I might end up laughing at her or getting frustrated by her ignorance.

 

[Mr Cat Dog]

I saw this earlier on Facebook and, suffice to say, it was extremely uncomfortable to watch. I wasn't sure if I was going to make it through to the end (and if it was any longer, I probably would have turned it off at some point). That being said, I also feel uncomfortable about her arrest and subsequent charging under the Public Order Act (which is horribly nebulous piece of legislation), but that's mainly because of my outlook on hate crimes. But... yeah. That was certainly uncomfortable.

 

[Dakotah]

I saw this earlier on Facebook and, suffice to say, it was extremely uncomfortable to watch. I wasn't sure if I was going to make it through to the end (and if it was any longer, I probably would have turned it off at some point). That being said, I also feel uncomfortable about her arrest and subsequent charging under the Public Order Act (which is horribly nebulous piece of legislation), but that's mainly because of my outlook on hate crimes. But... yeah. That was certainly uncomfortable.

Hate crime laws are a necessity these days, I'm afraid, because there are plenty of people in this world who are only too eager to attack minority groups, both physically and verbally.

I've heard the argument that all crimes are hate crimes, and that there shouldn't be special laws to punish people for attacking minorities, that all crimes should be prosecuted equally. But this ignores the fact that a hate crime is not a crime against an individual, it's a crime against an entire community. When a person assaults a person because of their skin colour, that's not attacking the individual only, that's attacking an entire community of people.

Hate crime enhancements exist to protect the community.

This woman deserved to be arrested. I would also support her child being taken away until such time as she can successfully complete treatment for drug and alcohol issues she so obviously has.

 

[FreakyLocz14]

Here in America, we have something called Freedom of Speech. While liberals here are trying to eat away at that, and have dealt a blow to it with the latest insane "hate crimes" law, we still have much more freedom of speech than most of the other so-called free countries.

 

[Dakotah]

I'm glad I don't live in England. Here in America, we have something called Freedom of Speech. While liberals here are trying to eat away at that, and have dealt a blow to it with the latest insane "hate crimes" law, we still have much more freedom of speech than most of the other so-called free countries.

You'd hate living in Canada then. You can be arrested and fined and possibly jailed for inciting hatred.

Also, I find your political prejudice very offensive. There are quite a few conservatives who also believe that hate crime laws should be in place. So to lay this all down on "liberals" feet is quite insulting.

I've said this on other forums, and I'll say it here as well: There is no such thing as a pure conservative or a pure liberal. It's only the prejudiced that refuse to accept this.

 

[Sydian]

I want to meet this lady when I cross the Atlantic next month, lmao. Aaaaahahahaha. She's funny. I don't think an arrest is deserved here, however she IS proud to be English and as far as I know, there is no freedom of speech law, so let me toss my American law knowledge away for a moment and say that she did deserve it. Love the guy behind her ready to get up and smack a *****.

 

[FreakyLocz14]

You'd hate living in Canada then. You can be arrested and fined and possibly jailed for inciting hatred.

Also, I find your political prejudice very offensive. There are quite a few conservatives who also believe that hate crime laws should be in place. So to lay this all down on "liberals" feet is quite insulting.

I've said this on other forums, and I'll say it here as well: There is no such thing as a pure conservative or a pure liberal. It's only the prejudiced that refuse to accept this.

I agree. I would dislike living in Canada. While America is imperfect, we enjoy the most individual freedom and liberty than virtually all other nations.

While I don't doubt that some conservatives back these extreme laws, at least here in America, their proponents are mostly liberals.

Let's forget hate crimes law for second, because this isn't a hate crime. It's hate speech. A hate crime is an enhancement attached to an existing crime. Hate speech is criminalizing certain unorthodox speech. Broadly criminalizing certain speech due to its content is scary and should not be tolerated.

 

[Rogue planet]

What this woman did was wrong, but there is nothing surprising about this video. I encounter people like this daily, even my own mother has the same views as her. They're the result of our piss poor education system and tabloid media that's shoved down our throats.

I think it's shocking that she was arrested though. A prime case of someone being "made an example of". Our government tries to use this as a message to say it won't tolerate racism; but it's prevalent everywhere. One woman being arrested won't change anything.

 

[Daichi]

I would have taken her kid, and then gave her something to talk about.

 

[Esper]

The woman looked like she wanted to start a fight. She can have her stupid opinions, but if she wants to be confrontational she should have the decency to do it when there aren't little children around. I dunno what set her off (I'll guess it was being around people who weren't "English" enough for her) but I'm going to assume that like most places I'm familiar with if you cause a scene people are going to ask you to be quiet and if you persist then the authorities are going to have to come in to make sure you aren't causing trouble. That's what I gather happened here so I'd be fine with her being asked to stop/leave/whatever by the police. Arresting her is a bit much though. But who knows. She may have started badgering the police, too, in which case it's no wonder they arrested her.

 

[Rogue planet]

if you persist then the authorities are going to have to come in to make sure you aren't causing trouble. That's what I gather happened here so I'd be fine with her being asked to stop/leave/whatever by the police. Arresting her is a bit much though. But who knows. She may have started badgering the police, too, in which case it's no wonder they arrested her.

She wasn't dealt with by authorities at the scene, they tracked her down a few days after this video was posted; once the hype around it became noticeable and they figured they should do something to try and save face.

 

[FreakyLocz14]

She wasn't dealt with by authorities at the scene, they tracked her down a few days after this video was posted; once the hype around it became noticeable and they figured they should do something to try and save face.

This. She may have been inciting a riot at the time, but tracking her down afterwards is unacceptable.

 

[Blue Nocturne]

I'm glad I don't live in England. Here in America, we have something called Freedom of Speech. While liberals here are trying to eat away at that, and have dealt a blow to it with the latest insane "hate crimes" law, we still have much more freedom of speech than most of the other so-called free countries.

Bleed your conservative heart out all you want, but these laws are in place to prevent massive conflicts from erupting. There is a difference between having & expressing an opinion, and full on hate speech. As far as I'm aware, the woman was arrested for disturbing the peace and something to do with harassment, and rightly so.

See the guy behind the woman in the video? About half way through he gets up and looks ready to get into a fight; the only thing that stops him appears to be the woman sitting to his right. Apparently once the video cuts off, people were ready to physically remove the woman from the tram, and attempted to. Do you know how quickly and viciously conflicts can escalate in confined spaces like trains? It gets very dangerous very quickly. Even simple shouting get get ugly.

The woman wasn't arrested for being a racist. She wasn't arrested for having an opinion or even voicing it. She was arrested for inciting hate and causing a potentially dangerous disturbance. Excuse us for having laws in place to discourage people getting hurt for no good reason.

 

[SuperTrainStationH]

Now that I have the context that they actually tracked her down because of the video and not for trying to incite a confrontation on the train, I have to say that that's about as equally offensive and dangerous a precedent as the woman's hate speech.

In other words, both the hate rant and the way she was arrested for it after the fact both make me equally skeptical of the general zeitgeist of the country.

Not that the US doesn't have a bunch of BS going on here too, I just happened to be accustomed to it.

 

[FreakyLocz14]

Bleed your conservative heart out all you want, but these laws are in place to prevent massive conflicts from erupting. There is a difference between having & expressing an opinion, and full on hate speech. As far as I'm aware, the woman was arrested for disturbing the peace and something to do with harassment, and rightly so.

See the guy behind the woman in the video? About half way through he gets up and looks ready to get into a fight; the only thing that stops him appears to be the woman sitting to his right. Apparently once the video cuts off, people were ready to physically remove the woman from the tram, and attempted to. Do you know how quickly and viciously conflicts can escalate in confined spaces like trains? It gets very dangerous very quickly. Even simple shouting get get ugly.

The woman wasn't arrested for being a racist. She wasn't arrested for having an opinion or even voicing it. She was arrested for inciting hate and causing a potentially dangerous disturbance. Excuse us for having laws in place to discourage people getting hurt for no good reason.

We too do not protect "fighting words", but we do protect people expressing their opinions. Stating that blacks and other minorities are not really British (or American, or whatever) is an opinion. If she was detained and removed from the train and that moment, the state might have a leg to stand on if it happened here. That fact that she was tracked down and arrested after the fact gives me no room whatsoever to support the state's actions against her.

 

[Bluerang1]

Oh God I miss London <3

Well at least she mentioned a specific country, my country, and not "Africa". She has brains.

I mean it's offensive, I'm not offended, it's rude and disrespectful bu tit was blown out of proportion. People make public racist remarks... I don't think she deserved to be arrested though. I should be offended... meh.

 

[Dakotah]

I agree. I would dislike living in Canada. While America is imperfect, we enjoy the most individual freedom and liberty than virtually all other nations.

And yet, the U.S. does not afford someone like me one basic right available to all other Americans. The right to marry the person I love ... simply because the person I love happens to be someone of the same sex. Also, as a Canadian citizen I don't have to worry about being fired for being gay, ore being evicted from my home because I'm gay (in over 25 states, this can, and does happen -- including in Texas, Utah, and Ohio to name just a few). Thank you, no. I'll stay in Canada, where I have MORE rights than if I lived in the U.S.

Getting back on topic, however, this woman, in my opinion, was rightly arrested for inciting hatred, and I'd guess she also was arrested for harassment given the statements she made in the video. If she had done the same in the U.S., I suspect she'd be arrested there also, depending on the state (given that each state has different hate crimes laws).

 

[FreakyLocz14]

And yet, the U.S. does not afford someone like me one basic right available to all other Americans. The right to marry the person I love ... simply because the person I love happens to be someone of the same sex. Also, as a Canadian citizen I don't have to worry about being fired for being gay, ore being evicted from my home because I'm gay (in over 25 states, this can, and does happen -- including in Texas, Utah, and Ohio to name just a few). Thank you, no. I'll stay in Canada, where I have MORE rights than if I lived in the U.S.

Getting back on topic, however, this woman, in my opinion, was rightly arrested for inciting hatred, and I'd guess she also was arrested for harassment given the statements she made in the video. If she had done the same in the U.S., I suspect she'd be arrested there also, depending on the state (given that each state has different hate crimes laws).

I clearly did say that America is imperfect, and while marriage liberty is an advantage that Canada has over the United States, I prefer my country.

Back on topic, you are INCORRECT. She would NOT have been arrested. Hate speech laws have not fared well in American courts. She might have been removed from the train, and maybe arrested for fighting words, but only AT THAT VERY MOMENT. An arrest made after the the incident would be unconstitutional here, and rightly so.

 

[Mr. X]

America, where everyone* is equal. (*Unless you have a certain skin color, sexual orientation, or whatever diffrence that we feel is worthy of discrimination.)

As for you Locz, im going to say something to you that I really should have said a long time ago. Sometimes to ensure some rights are protected, other rights must be neglected. That said, you prefer a country that discriminates against its own citizens? And can LEGALLY do so?

Edit

An arrest made after the the incident would be unconstitutional here, and rightly so.

Does this apply for all crimes or just a specific few?