Suggestion: Yeah S&M has driven everyone away with its insanity

[Mobile Tsk]

Sorry to sound rude but this is absolutely ridiculous. S&M has three perfectly capable and intelligent mods yet what has there been to moderate? All of, what, 4 posts in the last 12 hours? S&M has really experienced both ends of the spectrum, ranging from having a single very lenient moderator to a dynamic group of three moderators, all of whom believe that PC should be as clean cut as possible. Sounds nice. What's the problem?

PC ISN'T SMOGON

Yeah, I'll admit, it'd be cool to have an elite group of raters and battlers, but just to have an elitist group of 3 or 4 people rating each other's teams with no final goal in mind. I'm not saying it's progressed this far yet but it's well on its way.

It's obvious that S&M had flaws before. People failed to follow forum-wide rules, like "no flaming", "no spamming" and "no trolling". But that doesn't mean we have to force it to the opposite pole and make it just boring for members. I'd like to go through each of the rules individually.

→ Follow all PokéCommunity Rules
Yeah no duh.

→ Do NOT rate without proper knowledge
This rule is subjective and pretty pointless. There is a pretty indefinite continuum of battling/rating knowledge and where each person lies shouldn't be decided upon by the moderators. There are obviously such things as terrible rates, but those are spam anyway. If a rate is subpar, it will simply be corrected and the rater can learn from it. No reason to infract for it.

→ When you make suggestions, back them up with REASON
Yeah this is a pretty decent rule actually. This should stay.

→ Be DETAILED with your suggestions
This is completely unecessary. The last rule covers any rates that are not descriptive enough. If you supply an adequate reason and a clear suggestion it's "detailed" enough.

→ You MUST include description and general summary
This rule is pretty solid, but it's never enforced so whatever. It's incredibly pointless because people will just bypass the rule by stating obvious information, and we can't expect people to get too far into the logistics of their team. After all, this isn't Smogon.

→ "Ew, Heatran? You're not being original!"
Actually most of the comments are more about being predictable/unpredictable but yeah most of these are SPAM. But a thread just filled with six standard movesets that have no synergy is just as SPAMmy.

→ This forum is NOT for number rates
This has always been a S&M rule and I believe firmly in it.

→ Teams must consist of SIX Pokémon
On its own this rule is decent but see the rule below for more info.**

→ This is a COMPETITIVE Pokémon forum
This is completely lol. The name of the forum is Pokemon Strategies & Movesets. Now tell me how using 6 Plusle in-game is an effective strategy. Then I'd like the S&M mods to attempt this feat while doing push ups during the elite 4. It's not that easy and extremely inexperienced members need to start somewhere. We've provided nowhere for them to become informed. And we need newer members becoming more experienced to allow the forum to thrive.

As I've already stated, I think it would be amazing to have an exclusively competitive battling population inside the S&M forum... but we don't even have 2% of the number of willing members needed to facilitate that sort of thing. We're not Smogon and we need to quit trying to be exactly like them.

You guys remember aragornbird, right? Well, he thoroughly enjoyed competitive battle but he didn't appear to have any problem helping out inexperienced players so long as they weren't incredibly rude. And he's on Smogon now. If you don't like helping inexperienced players then you should join him there.

And what about those casual players out there? I used to be one myself. Luckily I could post casual RMTs without being yelled at. If I were just getting situated into the competitve scene now, I'd have to go elsewhere.

**And what about Battle Frontier teams? Some of the buildings in the frontier require further coordination than even competitive battle does. And are you suggesting that I could glide through with 6, or in this case, 3 Plusle? I nearly ruined my keyboard after all of the water I just spit on it.

Considering the activity hovering around -273 degrees Celcius (harharhar) this rule is seriously tampering with the growth of the rating/battling population on our site.

→ Teams are REQUIRED to list EVs, Items, Natures, Ability (if it has more than one) and the obvious four moves
Wow. Wow. Well this would be pretty useful if PC were a competitive battle community but since we're not on Smogon we should stop acting like it.

→ Titles
→ Recommended Format
These are pretty essential suggestions. Good job friends.

→ Use the STICKIES to your ADVANTAGE
The stickies are pretty pointless and just reiterate the information that can be immediately found on Smogon. And do I really need to repeat myself again?

→ Use proper grammar and spelling
Good rule.

→ Formatting Issues
Terrible and subjective rule. Leaves room for blatant favoring of members and just adds to the endless list of things that members have to worry about before submitting their thread. And you know what's really ugly? A RMT that has no pictures and is written in the same exact font, color, and format throughout.

→ Learn to take criticism.
This rule is entirely pointless. If a criticism is truly helpful then a member will either accept it automatically or break an already established rule replying to it anyway. Adding unecessary rules really makes the rule thread tl;dr and repetitive.

→ "AH! WHERE IS MY THREAD!?" | Have some PATIENCE
This rule is god awful. There isn't enough activity to warrant thread approval, and there shouldn't be so many god forsaken rules that an open ended discussion forum like S&M should require thread approval. And Battle Logs certainly doesn't need it... do you see threads awaiting approval in the writing forums?

This just frustrates people and allows threads to sink to the second page before they are even approved. Not that the latter is important right now, considering the surge in activity going on.

→ Simplicity is key
Who made this rule? I mean I am pretty sure I know, and this is a rhetorical question, so don't answer, but it's just another pointless restriction. And once again, subjective. Please tell me in one sentence why CSS should be against the S&M rules.

Anyway that's my case, and before you reply just go look at the amazingly high number of posts that have occurred in S&M recently. Remember, there's no need for a second Smogon and there aren't enough active participants to create one.

 

[Rogue planet]

Yes, I entirely agree with everything you said. S&M is clearly too strict.

 

[NarutoActor]

quick questions what s&m................

 

[øbliteration]

hay we should be a second smogon :>

uhh... i've not posted there ever because I am scared a mod will yell at me for not being "knowledgeable" because I am not a very avid competitive battler.

So yeah maybe it could be a bit more welcoming~

 

[Chibi Robo]

Even though I never go into that section (Maybe once or twice) I think your absolutely correct~
We shouldn't try to "imitate" SMOGON (Im assuming its another site) And use everything from their site
And some rules are really silly~
Well I just think its great that another member of pc is trying to help the forum by telling them to stop trying to imitate another site and create some original piece's.

 

[Mobile Tsk]

quick questions what s&m................

Pokemon Strategies & Movesets, a forum for posting teams and movesets and asking for suggestions on them.

Even though I never go into that section (Maybe once or twice) I think your absolutely correct~
We shouldn't try to "imitate" SMOGON (Im assuming its another site) And use everything from their site
And some rules are really silly~
Well I just think its great that another member of pc is trying to help the forum by telling them to stop trying to imitate another site and create some original piece's.

Seriously, it's just obnoxious to aim to be exactly like another site.

 

[Chibi Robo]

Seriously, it's just obnoxious to aim to be exactly like another site.

Exactly what I meant put some originality in this sub-forum If we wanted to get the same stuff you would get from SMOGON then why not join there instead?

 

[Mobile Tsk]

Exactly what I meant put some originality in this sub-forum If we wanted to get the same stuff you would get from SMOGON then why not join there instead?

Exactly my point. >=/ I don't understand the moderators' need to have this forum so strict and standard. There is another forum for them if they want to use that instead. At this point I don't understand how the moderators feel needed in that section. And if they all left due to a loosening of the rules, there would be a heap of incoming members that could be eligible for the position. Or members that left quite a while ago that could easily return with the new rule set. Not only that but it makes the raters feel needed. If the raters prefer a more competitive setting, then they wouldn't bother as much with PC as they do Smogon, would they?

 

[sasuneuchiha]

You're asking why do away with it? I have a fairly simple answer for that.

People want their movesets rated. Have you overlooked that? True, it could be a bit less strict, but if its not strict, it might not get the modding it needs. Now, I might be overlooking something, and I apologize if I have, just tell me, but I believe that it exists for a reason. It has mods that are very good on the subject (i.e Dark_Azelf) and its not as bad as you make it sound. While I admit, some of the rules do make very little sense, its really not as bad as you make it sound. I see no reason why they should get rid of it, personally.

This is my opinion and I'm sticking to it.

 

[Mobile Tsk]

You're asking why do away with it? I have a fairly simple answer for that.

People want their movesets rated. Have you overlooked that? True, it could be a bit less strict, but if its not strict, it might not get the modding it needs. Now, I might be overlooking something, and I apologize if I have, just tell me, but I believe that it exists for a reason. It has mods that are very good on the subject (i.e Dark_Azelf) and its not as bad as you make it sound. While I admit, some of the rules do make very little sense, its really not as bad as you make it sound. I see no reason why they should get rid of it, personally.

This is my opinion and I'm sticking to it.

Yes, people want their movesets rated... so why are we turning such an open ended subject into something so uniform and impossible? I believe you are forgetting something that I pointed out several times: this isn't Smogon and we don't have even close to enough activity to warrant the current rules. And the rules not making sense is the issue of the entire forum -- if you are only going to agree with me I see no reason to word your post as if you don't.

 

[sasuneuchiha]

I'm don't think I'm agreeing with you, though if I am, feel free to point out how.

Yes, I agree that the S&M forum is similar to Smogon. I do, however, believe that they have fair reason to exist. The fact that people do use it often means that the people here at Pokecommunity want it. Therefore, even though there are some who want it deleted, as long as there are people who want it, its up to the admins to decide if its worth getting rid of. Personally, I still stand for the fact that it should exist...

 

[Mobile Tsk]

I'm don't think I'm agreeing with you, though if I am, feel free to point out how.

Yes, I agree that the S&M forum is similar to Smogon. I do, however, believe that they have fair reason to exist. The fact that people do use it often means that the people here at Pokecommunity want it. Therefore, even though there are some who want it deleted, as long as there are people who want it, its up to the admins to decide if its worth getting rid of. Personally, I still stand for the fact that it should exist...

Oh nononono. I want the S&M forum. We must've had a misunderstanding. It's just far too strict and needs an axe to half of the rules to thrive at PC.

And the point is for it to be unique, and not like Smogon.

 

[The Red Chain]

Okay you know what?
So what if the S&M section has a lot of rules similar to Smogon?
We have rules similar to Serebii's, and some of the staff members of PC are staff on Serebii as well.
I never hear anyone saying 'OH PC ISN'T SEREBII'.

Seriously, it's not that big a freaking deal.
So S&M wants a little intelligence and seriousness in your RMT's and posts, is that really so much to ask for? =/

 

[Mobile Tsk]

Okay you know what?
So what if the S&M section has a lot of rules similar to Smogon?
We have rules similar to Serebii's, and some of the staff members of PC are staff on Serebii as well.
I never hear anyone saying 'OH PC ISN'T SEREBII'.

Seriously, it's not that big a freaking deal.
So S&M wants a little intelligence in your RMT's and posts, is that really so much to ask for? =/

There is nothing intelligent about completely drying out a section of all of its interested members by making the rules too strict. And PC's rules that are similar to Serebii's are commonplace, found on almost any Pokemon forum. And since you're such a fan of the S&M rules, can you take a look at "Read the entire thread" and somehow connect it to this situation?

 

[The Red Chain]

There is nothing intelligent about completely drying out a section of all of its interested members by making the rules too strict. And PC's rules that are similar to Serebii's are commonplace, found on almost any Pokemon forum. And since you're such a fan of the S&M rules, can you take a look at "Read the entire thread" and somehow connect it to this situation?

That's how S&M is run.
They are serious about their RMTs and their raters, and don't want people wasting their time.
If you don't like it, then well, sucks to be you.

 

[sasuneuchiha]

Okay you know what?
So what if the S&M section has a lot of rules similar to Smogon?
We have rules similar to Serebii's, and some of the staff members of PC are staff on Serebii as well.
I never hear anyone saying 'OH PC ISN'T SEREBII'.

Seriously, it's not that big a freaking deal.
So S&M wants a little intelligence and seriousness in your RMT's and posts, is that really so much to ask for? =/

THANK YOU! This is exactly what I mean...though I didn't think of the serebii thing. Good idea. So you don't like the rules. That's FINE! Yeah, they could be less strict, but they ask for intelligence. It makes total sense why they do. A forum like that would be spammed almost immediatly if they didn't have such strict rules. The way it is now, everything works. They do what they do to get answers as easily as they can. Do you get it now?

 

[Mobile Tsk]

That's how S&M is run.
They are serious about their RMTs and their raters.
If you don't like it, then well, sucks to be you.

Wow you can quit being rude and blatantly ignorant of everything that goes on there. I know how S&M is run. And obviously you're just posting here because it doesn't apply to you and you just want to +1 or whatever you do nowadays. Do you even understand the point of a Q&F forum? If everything were spectacular, I wouldn't have made this thread.

THANK YOU! This is exactly what I mean...though I didn't think of the serebii thing. Good idea. So you don't like the rules. That's FINE! Yeah, they could be less strict, but they ask for intelligence. It makes total sense why they do. A forum like that would be spammed almost immediatly if they didn't have such strict rules. The way it is now, everything works. They do what they do to get answers as easily as they can. Do you get it now?

Yeah if it were a valid analogy I could see it working. PC says don't post porn? I guess we must be imitating Runescape now.

But really you're being incredibly vague and if you have to leave holes in your argument just to justify something then there's obviously something wrong.

 

[Aurafire]

I don't see how allowing lower-quality RMTs is going to improve the section at all. Sure, we'll have more RMT's and we may attract some more activity, but that's just asking for noobs to invade S&M with spammy posts, and it would be an all-around nightmare for the staff there. That's why they have thread approval in the first place =/

I know what you're saying, but asking to have the rules slackened is not going to be a help to the forum in the eyes of the mods there. I know they wish there was more activity there, but allowing stuff like in-game RMTs probably won't be an option.

 

[Azonic]

Imo, PC's S&M rules are fine-ish.

The only thing I kind of dislike is that its not very nice to new members that make threads. I mean, I totally agree with you on the fact that new members need to start somewhere. Don't like, disapprove a thread just because their team sucks (this may not be the case but it's what I suspect. @_@ pls dun hurt me). It's not very welcoming. I think the description for each Pokemon's moveset is kind of unnecessary but that's just me. :(

S&M has scared me away lol.

 

[The Red Chain]

I know what you're saying, but asking to have the rules slackened is not going to be a help to the forum in the eyes of the mods there. I know they wish there was more activity there, but allowing stuff like in-game RMTs probably won't be an option.

In-game RMTs would be a real waste of time.
You can practically use a Magikarp with Flail, Tackle and Bounce and dominate any of the Pokemon games.

The way the RMTs are kept now, in my opinion, is a much better option.
It brings people who are serious about competitive battling together.
Battling actual people instead of data is much more difficult and requires analytical thinking.

it's supposed to invite new members to learn the techniques of the forum without having to simply lurk.

You are really missing the point. x_x;
S&M forces newbies to lurk so they actually read the rules for once.