You Can't Go Chasing Waterfalls

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luke

luke

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    The Team
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    Poliwrath @ Damp Rock "image removed"
    Ability: Water Absorb
    EVs: 252 HP / 6 Atk / 252 Def
    Impish Nature (Defense +, Attack -)

    Waterfall
    Brick Break / Focus Punch
    Ice Punch / Rock Slide
    Rain Dance

    Persian @ Life Orb *pokemonelite2000 image removed*
    Ability: Technician
    EVs: 6 HP / 252 Speed / 252 SAtk
    Timid Nature (Speed +, Attack -)

    Swift
    Water Pulse
    Hypnosis
    Nasty Plot

    Qwilfish @ Leftovers *pokemonelite2000 image removed*
    Ability: Swift Swim
    EVs: 168 HP / 252 Atk / 88 Speed
    Adamant Nature (Attack +, Special Attack -)

    Waterfall
    Poison Jab
    Explosion
    Swords Dance

    Magnezone @ Leftovers *pokemonelite2000 image removed*
    Ability: Magnet Pull
    EVs: 172 HP / 84 Speed / 252 SAtk
    Modest Nature (Special Attack +, Attack -)

    Thunderbolt
    Hidden Power [Ice]
    Magnet Rise
    Substitute

    Mesprit @ Leftovers *pokemonelite2000 image removed*
    Ability: Levitate
    EVs: 252 HP / 176 Def / 80 SAtk
    Bold Nature (Defense +, Attack -)

    Psychic
    Thunderbolt
    Ice Beam
    Rain Dance

    Milotic @ Leftovers *pokemonelite2000 image removed*
    Ability: Marvel Scale
    EVs: 252 HP / 6 Def / 252 SDef
    Calm Nature (Special Defense +, Attack -)

    Surf
    Ice Beam
    Recover
    Toxic / Light Screen
     
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    This is probably the best team I've ever seen against Mixape. Physical Infernape is a bit more problematic though, so be careful of that.

    I wouldn't replace Quilfish either considering it's your only decent line of defense against Heracross.
     
    WHAT! MY team isn't the best at handliong Mixape! I thought we were friends...wah.

    Anywhoo, kudos for Vaporeon & Rain Dance. Forgot about him. But you may want to consider Damp Rock. Using Dance less helps, and that extra 2 turns always did it for me.
     
    Giving Kyogre a Damp Rock *Minigun'd for even putting those letters together*

    The team lacks a very sturdy sponges. Forretress was a good mention earlier, receiving a useful weakened-fire bonus in the rain to help it out.

    I saw this, and it caused havoc.

    Kabutops@Choice Band
    Adamant, Swift Swim
    252atk/252spd/6HP (I don't know the set, but I know that's a considerable option for overkill on speed)

    Waterfall
    Stone Edge
    Earthquake
    X-Scissor (?) I didn't see his last move.

    Waterfall in the Rain + CB = 2hkos Forretress...no joke. Swift Swim = everything dies. Just be wary of switch ins. I'd highly consider it because it breaks physical walls as well.

    I really don't know of a huge special wall aside from Blissey or Snorlax, and Snorlax's abilty isn't going to help too much due to the rain, but it can absorb Ice. Hypno may be stretching it if this is to all tier battles *looks at Magnezone*
     
    Blueberry said:
    I know. I was considering Kabutops > Qwilfish, but Qwilfish was the sole reason for me trying out a Rain Dance team.
    Click to expand...


    My only query here is that your kinda light on the walling side of things, but you do have some useful resistances to work with.Reason being Im slightly concerned about Tyranitar coming in, it wrecks your rain and can DD UP and hurts.

    Im thinking Swampert on here somewhere ?
     
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    With the rain, Pert could use Surf since the weather would provide the power boost and more PP/Accuracy.

    Anyways, Swampert statistically isn't the strongest defensively (90 Def/100HP) so SDef EVs probably aren't a really good idea. If you want a bulky water with special defense, Milotic is probably your best bet (or Suicune if switching into stuff isn't an issue).
     
    Swampert has trouble with Tar this generation. Its power loss is kind of ignored, but Pert really can't take boosted Crunches or even Earthquakes well at all.

    Bulky waters really can't beat Tar all that well (though if you try one, Swampert is your best bet)...bulky grounds are better for that, as are a lot of steels. you could try Gliscor over Quilfish, who could deal with Tar AND Heracross. That'a about all I can think of right now :0
     
    Anti-Pop said:
    Swampert has trouble with Tar this generation. Its power loss is kind of ignored, but Pert really can't take boosted Crunches or even Earthquakes well at all.

    Bulky waters really can't beat Tar all that well (though if you try one, Swampert is your best bet)...bulky grounds are better for that, as are a lot of steels. you could try Gliscor over Quilfish, who could deal with Tar AND Heracross. That'a about all I can think of right now :0
    Click to expand...


    I agree with something to deal with hera aswell as tar, so as you said Gliscor would works fine.
     
    Please, be careful of Ice Beam from T-tar if you use bulky Grounds.
     
    Damage: 429 - 505
    Damage: 125.44% - 147.66%

    Waterfall with Swords Dance boost on 6 HP / 0 Def Tyranitar with no Rain.

    Damage: 326 - 383
    Damage: 95.32% - 111.99%

    Waterfall with no Swords Dance boost on 6 HP / 0 Def Tyranitar with Rain.

    Damage: 644 - 758
    Damage: 188.30% - 221.64%

    Waterfall with Swords Dance boost with 6 HP / 0 Def Tyranitar with Rain.
     
    So, this is dependant on if you have a SD boost, huh? We KNOW rain won't be up at the time, at least if he switches in on you. I don't really see what those calcs prove. Doesn't really mean that it solves the problem.
     
    Far too many "if's" for my taste. If (damn) he is already out, what can ya do? That's the real question.
     
    Damage: 368 - 432
    Damage: 91.09% - 106.93%

    Back with Kabutops, this is its CB'd Waterfall vs. 252HP Tyranitar.

    Damage: 460 - 541
    Damage: 113.86% - 133.91%

    This is same Kabutops with a CB'd Brick Break.

    I wouldn't call it a counter, but it benefits from Sandstorm as well and can deal with it, but not on the switch.
     
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