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[Malevolent Mismagius]

~Intro~
Well, I had my fun with Wifi, so I'm going to go back to shoddy, which grants me a lot more freedom with legendaries/Hidden Power. I recently made a team that uses Zapdos as my Scizor/Luke check (thank god I don't ave to resort to Hippowdon again) and Specs Vappy (I now finally have a decent Gyara check!). It leads with Infernape, who is one heck of a fun lead to use, and abuses the Choice Band. It's basically a bulky offense team with a fastpaced lead that suits my style. And yes, I do realise I will struggle with speed but that happens with most of my teams anyway, so w/e. I do realise it has problems like all other teams, but I have tried to cover a many as possible, so I'd like the people/trolls of Pokecommunity to help me out there. I'll llisten to all suggestions, but don't make them stupid or I'll get very angry. Rate it/rip it to shreds w/e.

The Lineup

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Infernape @ Focus Sash
Trait: Blaze
EV: 4 HP | 252 SAtk | 252 Spe
Nature: Mild

- Stealth Rock
- Overheat
- Endeavour
- Vacuum Wave

Infernape is just a generally handy lead to start off. With Sash, it is guaranteed to get up the Stealth Rocks unless the opponent leads with some suicide lead junk, but I end up having the last laugh anyway. Endeavour + Vacuum Wave pretty much guarantees a kill so that is really nice to start the game. Overheat is extremely powerful after Blaze, ripping through just about any pokemon not named Heatran or a bulky water.

Gyarados @ Leftovers
Trait: Intimidate
EV: 156 HP | 108 Atk | 100 Def | 144 Spe
Nature: Adamant

- Dragon Dance
- Waterfall
- Earthquake
- Taunt

This was a replacement >>Zapdos. It works much the same except it gives a bit more Mixape coverage. Dragon Dance makes setting up on the opponent a very real prospect, especially with the defensive capabilities of this set. With Intimidate it has the ability to set up with ease on the likes of Heatran, Infernape without Tpunch, Scizor, Lucario, Heracross etc. Taunt stops the opponent from phazing/setting up. I have used this set before with a lot of success so it is reliable enough. EV spread+nature are uncertain so help would be good.




Vaporeon @ Choice Specs
Trait: Water Absorb
EV: 4 HP | 252 Def | 252 SAtk
Nature: Modest

- Surf
- Ice Beam
- Hidden Power [Electric]
- Wish

It puts a more offensive spin on the normal defensive Vappy. It's also the handy Gyara, Mixape, mence and Heatran check (although I already have lax for added insurance aginst Heatran) as well as the awesome wish passer. I needed extra insurance against Gyara (Gyara lols at Zappy with Stone Edge) and this seemed the right choice (bad pun lol). This is pure power on the team when Zappy isn't enough (which is a lot of the time) and also buys me a water immunity and a quick heal for Vappy when they use Surf, etc. The wishpassing is very helpful for champ, lax and mamo. I may need Hydro Pump for the extra power but Surf is enough at the moment and I loathe moves with less than 100% accuracy (because I have terrible luck). Wish on this conflicts with the wish on Jirachi but I will probably remove the Wsih on this. I don't know what for though.


Snorlax @ Leftovers
Trait: Thick Fat
EV: 4 HP | 252 Atk | 252 SDef
Nature: Adamant

- Body Slam
- Fire Punch
- Earthquake
- Pursuit

This is my Heatran, Zapdos, Gengar check since I have a big problem with Gengar otherwise. I'm very wary of Gengar these days, especially with its ability to put its counters to sleep. Pursuit is here so I can get rid of it the very first time it comes in, rather than wearing me down and eventually fainting Snorlax. Fire Punch lols at Scizor who, for some reason likes to switch into lax. To be honest I don't need Crunch, since everything weak to Crunch gets a CB Pursuit in the face anyway. Finally, I will not use Selfdestruct. It blows up Snorlax and it may not even affect the opponent if they predict and switch in Gengar/Rotom or a pokemon that resists it.


Heracross @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Guts
EV: 252 Atk | 4 Def | 252 Spe
Nature: Adamant

- Megahorn
- Close Combat
- Stone Edge
- Toxic

I'm here making a point that Hera is definitely NOT UU. Using the choice scarf, I can still have lots of powah, but outspeed just about everything other than other choice scarf pokemon which helps a lot due to my lack of a choice scarf user prior to Hera's use. Toxic also helps a lot with bulky waters and the counters of Hera since they give the team/Hera trouble respectively. Its also handy as a status absorber with Guts.


Jirachi @ Expert Belt
Trait: Serene Grace
EV: 252 Atk | 40 SAtk | 216 Spe
Nature: Hasty

- Fire Punch
- Grass Knot
- Iron Head
- Thunderwave / Ice Punch

I saw Syaoran using this on his lure team and wanted to give it a try. Its ability to feign choice scarf ended up being very handy indeed. It has pretty good coverage to make up for what it somewhat lacks with power and Expert Belt complements its good coverage very nicely. I'm really torn on the last slot. Ice Punch would stop mence and friends from getting a free switch however Twave would be great support for how slow this team is. I'm currently using Twave because that screws mence anyway. Serene Grace flinch hax is nice too.

~Problems~

Gengar: It's hard to check this thing, and if Snorlax is down I am screwed by Life Orb versions. Choice Scarf versions aren't too hard to deal with. I suppose as long as it has taken prior damage Ice Shard + LO recoil could do it but yeh, it is a problem if played right.

Gyarados: If it gets a DD in, I am more than likely screwed. Still, it can't really com in on anything except ape, who gets at least two hits in and then it is more than likely finished by LO/SR.

Mamoswine: I haven't done any damage calcs yet, but just from looking at it, it can be problematic when played right.

Mixape: Although on paper I don't look that weak against it I have lots of trouble as long as it CCs when Vappy switches or Vappy has taken prior damage.

My low speed: With my team as slow as this, I can't rely on ape/Mamo's Ice Shard for everything. Still, Mach Punch/Ice Shard does revenge a lot. I have put thought into changing something for paralysis or giving something Twave but I'm not sure. This is more than likely my biggest problem.

~Conclusion~
This team has done ok, so far (10 wins approx., 1 loss from major hax). And btw, I do realise there is no synergy at all, so anybody wanting to remind me of that obviously can't read. I'd like to keep the theme of bulky offense if that's okay, so nobody telling me to get Blissey, or I'll be pretty angry. Any rates are fine, but don't get angry if I don't take your suggestion or I ignore you. Also, I put a fair bit of work into this, so no name changes please. I will be seriously angry if anyone trolls this. Well that's it, so if you want to rate it go ahead, or rip it to shreds and beware.

 

[Skip Shot]

You mentioned that you want a bulky offense theme, but Infernape isn't bulky at all, and mostly likely won't live past the first 2-3 turns of the battle. I would run a standard Mixpert>> Ape to keep the bulky offense theme rolling.

I also think that having 3 choice users on a team is a little overkill, especially when they don't have synergy with any other team members. Snorlax would be better used imo as a bulky exploder to better support the whole team.

Snorlax @ Leftovers
Adamant Nature
156 HP/ 252 Atk/ 100 Def

Body Slam
Crunch
Earthquake
Selfdestruct

Also, I don't see what Mamoswine is doing for this team besides revenge killing dragons, I would prefer the Life Orb set.

 

[Ineffable~]

Infernape @ Focus Sash
Trait: Blaze
EV: 4 HP | 252 Atk | 252 Spe
Nature: Naughty

- Stealth Rock
- Fire Blast
- Close Combat
- Mach Punch

You've got full Attack EVs, why would you waste your time with a special move? Flare Blitz is a much better choice than Fire Blast, especially if you want 100% accuracy.

 

[Dark Azelf]

You've got full Attack EVs, why would you waste your time with a special move? Flare Blitz is a much better choice than Fire Blast, especially if you want 100% accuracy.

But that would be pointless thanks to the recoil of the move and he has a Sash.

 

[Ineffable~]

Oh yeah, I forgot about that. Well, I think he should just take the plunge and use something else rather than a Focus Sash. There are too many holes in that technique. If someone managed to bring Infernape down to one HP, clearly they can do the same on the next turn.
And even if he does still use Focus Sash, decreasing both power and accuracy is way more pointless than killing yourself with recoil. After all, he said the Focus Sash is only for Stealth Rock anyway, so Flare Blitz will be on at least the second turn, after Stealth Rock has been used and the Focus Sash has most likely already been disabled. And any Pokémon that can suicide with a simple recoil can easily be killed by an opponent's attack in any case.

 

[Anti]

Oh yeah, I forgot about that. Well, I think he should just take the plunge and use something else rather than a Focus Sash. There are too many holes in that technique. If someone managed to bring Infernape down to one HP, clearly they can do the same on the next turn.
And even if he does still use Focus Sash, decreasing both power and accuracy is way more pointless than killing yourself with recoil. After all, he said the Focus Sash is only for Stealth Rock anyway, so Flare Blitz will be on at least the second turn, after Stealth Rock has been used and the Focus Sash has most likely already been disabled. And any Pokémon that can suicide with a simple recoil can easily be killed by an opponent's attack in any case.

Stealth Rock is very important to get up, especially for a team as prediction-reliant as this one. without Focus Sash, LeadApe is basically useless. Focus Sash is so much more important to this set than a physical STAB (especially when Fire Blast does the job anyway) that it isn't even funny. And yeah, Infernape fainting isn't a hole in the strategy...that's what it's supposed to do :| It sets up SR and dies, hopefully scaring away or defeating the opponent's lead in the process.

Flare Blitz is never going on this set and Focus Sash is never coming off...otherwise Infernape becomes useless. (That's your cue to stop arguing for this since the OP almost positively won't change it anyway.)

 

[Malevolent Mismagius]

@Skip Shot: I prefer faster leads when I run a team so I have a higher chance of getting SR up. Plus, the sash makes him (semi)bulky I guess, lol. CBLax is pretty good at the moment. I'm really impressed so no, I won't try your set since I've seen lots of teams with 3+ choice users. It really isn't that big a deal. I refuse to use moves that blow up my lax anyway.

@Lilbittygoat: I'm not changing the Infernape set. That screws up the sash, which may save me later. I don't care about the power anyways (as long as it can revenge Scizor, Metagross etc.) which it can.

Fire Punch>>Fire Blast on Leadape's set for more powah!

I'm not really digging the CBChamp. dualscreens Jirachi>>Mamo for better team support since I need the paralysis support. Scarfhera>>CBChamp to show you guys how good he can be. I don't lose my check to TTar so it's all good.

 

[magnem101]

If you have problems with Mixape, you could use Restalk Gyara>>Zapdos. It gives added insurance to Mixape and you still have a Scizor/Luke check.

Gyarados @ Leftovers
252 HP/160 Atk/96 Def
Adamant

Waterfall
Dragon Dance
Rest
Sleep Talk

Basically it easily takes Scizor+sets up in its face, Luke isn't a problem either apart from the rare HP Rock.

 

[Malevolent Mismagius]

It seems reasonable enough. I don't really like restalkers that much but it looks interesting.

 

[FreakyLocz14]

1) Focus Sash is only good for FEAR Pokemon and your lead, since entry hazards like Stealth Rock deem it useless

2) Stick to the attacking type you EV'd for (Psyhical or Special)

Great team tho good work raising them

 

[Malevolent Mismagius]

Any constructive criticism or just a complement?

 

[ABYAY]

Because I had to be summoned yet again...

From the looks, everything looks rather solid. One thing that is giving me some thoughts is Agiligross: Agility/M.Mash/Quake/Thunderpunch sets seem to hit a lot of your team for a ton of damage. It can get its Agility on a misplayed Pursuit or Ice Beam from Specs Vappy. With Reflect from Jirachi, however, it's cake for you. Just make sure you can get a Reflect easily should fear arise.

On Infernape, Overheat is an option over Fire Blast if you want that extra kick in power. It should make sure things like Metagross and Bronzong bite the dust after the Blaze boost, or heck, even before it.

Don't diss the Hera; I used CB Hera in early Plat and it decimated a lot of teams before the heavy rotom popularity, and even then...misplayed Will-o-wisp = gg.

On Vappy, I'd strongly prefer Wish > Hydro Pump. On a bulky offensive team, you need it. You can keep U-Turn on Jirachi to escape Magnezone, which if it kills Jirachi, then powerful dragon moves are going to decimate you, simply said.

Well, first criticism in ages. I'm not sure how the new metagame is faring, so some of my info could be flawed.

 

[Malevolent Mismagius]

i'll make your changes and yes magnezone is problematic. thx!

 

[Archer]

If you have problems with Mixape, you could use Restalk Gyara>>Zapdos. It gives added insurance to Mixape and you still have a Scizor/Luke check.

Gyarados @ Leftovers
252 HP/160 Atk/96 Def
Adamant

Waterfall
Dragon Dance
Rest
Sleep Talk

Basically it easily takes Scizor+sets up in its face, Luke isn't a problem either apart from the rare HP Rock.

Cro sets don't work as well when you're not gaining bulk. Although Gyarados could work, you're best off trying to avoid SR going up and running standard DDLO Gyara. Restalk is still fodder for any Thunderbolt, etc.

 

[Dark Azelf]

CroGyara sucks and loses to literally everything like really. Awesome lets give Salamence, Gyarados, Latias, Breloom, Vaporeon, Kingdra, Starmie, Cune, Celebi, Empoleon and god knows what else a TOTALLY FREE switch in and set up. Thats on the offensive side of things.

Also, how do you plan to break stall? Skarm/Bliss/Rotom-a/<bulky water> aka the staple of most stall teams completely shut down this team. You could say "well i pursuit bliss or rotom" still this wont work vs stall. Wish Biss has protect and Rotom has Reflect or W-o-W so yeah.

3 Choice users is mainly the reason for this thus makeing you set up fodder essentially and lack of wall breaking potential because you are locked into one move. You lack anything that that can mix sweep (ape doesnt count because it will prolly be gone after like 3 turns anyway) or even stat up late game and sweep well and thus break walls (Gyara doesnt count because it is walled way too easily). You also lack Lures or a central strategy so it will be hard to sweep period.

Id probably start by removing scarf from Heracross and make it a SD LO Heracross so you can actually do something late game and attempt to sweep/wall break. Basically Jolly SD LO Cross gets to 295 speed and has 1 point less power than Adamant Lucario which is saying something and with lax/everything spreading paralysis support it should be easier to sweep.

Heracross@Life Orb
252 ATT / 252 SPEED / 6 DEF
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Megahorn
- Close Combat
- Stone Edge


Make Gyarados a Bulky Gyara to make this less set up fodder. Who cares about status absorbing anymore seriously. Any good offensive team does NOT have time for that. Just fodder ape to take sleep, and hera to take anything else and move on, not hard.

Gyarados@Leftovers
156 HP / 108 Atk / 100 Def / 144 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Taunt
- Dragon Dance
- Waterfall
- Bounce.

Yes more paralysis support.

Id make Jirachi a scarf revenge killer and forget the dual screens, it doesnt really help this team. Scarf rachi however helps with Mence, Lucario, Scizor and with all the paralysis support you are spreading, Iron Head hax will be fun.

Jirachi@Choice Scarf
Jolly Nature
252 ATT / 252 SPEED/ 6 HP
- U-Turn / Trick
- Iron Head
- Fire Punch
- Ice Punch


Unchoice snorlax and use offensive lax. Same set but with lefties, its harder to set up on and less Pursuit bait. Consider Selfdestruct too.

Lastly, make ape the Endeavor/Vacuum Wave/SR/Overheat@Sash lead imo. Lure in the bulky waters to destroy them and to hopefully open up sweeps for Gyarados right off the bat. ^_~

Endeavor Ape
Bulky Gyara
Scarf Jira
SD Hera
Specs Vappy
Offensive Lax

Something like this ?

Just some thoughts.

 

[Malevolent Mismagius]

I made most of your changes, and thanks a lot! However, I do disagree with SDHera. CSHera has been highly successful so probably no changes there. I did change the Jirachi set but I made a few changes to that set. thx