Your Electronics, Are They Sustainable?

[White Raven]

When you think of sustainable phones, do you think, "Oh! This phone is made of recycled glass! I love this phone company!!!"

Sustainability usually means the well being of the enviroment.

When you hear environment, do you think of people as part of it? Do you feel connected to settings around you? A part of it? If you do, hear this.

Thousands of Chinese people, are being treated for leukemia in hospitals with basically nothing to spice up their lives. Most of these people with leukemia have been benzene poisoned. As one of the millions of Chinese people who are lucky enough to grow up in Canada, where benzene in industries is banned, I feel that I have to raise awareness in as many places possible.

Benzene is a type of hydrocarbon, made up of hydrogen and carbon atoms, composed like this:

Banned in most first world countries, it is linked to leukemia, a type of blood or bone marrow cancer. Unfortunately, in China, where 50% of phones are made, it is still legal. If you look around you the next time you go outside, pretty much every adult has a phone. 50% of that is still alot. Benzene in the electronics industries is used for polishing

Although we can't really make the affected people's lives better in the hospital without giving up millions of dollars, we can prevent the people from actually getting this type of cancer.

All those phone companies you thought were too rich to be feeding off lives of young, hip people, actually do, well, some of them anyways. I think that one of these companies is Apple, because it says on the boxes, that it is assembled in China. Don't get me wrong, I love my phone. I am not asking you to boycott all phones assembled in China. But to raise the awareness of this industrial way.

The majority of workers in the industry are from places not unlike the village where my mom grew up, but more poorer. They are young people, who thought they will be helping the family by getting this ill fated job.

The sad reality is that their new jobs are back breaking and hazardous. The hazard? Benzene tainted screen polishes. They work most of the time they are awake. They only have one day free a month

The life of the workers are expendable. Most don't last more than a few weeks without health issues, the luckiest two months. And with so many people in China the sickest are replaced almost immediately. The workers don't even have insurance.

When the workers are fired, they usually are poisoned with chemicals, with health issues, most likely leukemia from benzene poisoning. The average victim is around 25.

Of the thousands, only a handful of people won compensations through months of legal work. They have done the exact opposite of what they intended to do, to earn more money for their family. Now, they require money to treat their illnesses. And the family is even poorer.

There is a documentary on this issue. I hope you can take 10 minutes of your day to watch it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ns-kJ5Podjw

Please share the video to your friends, together, we can stop companies from using hazardous chemicals in industries that do not give training.

What do you think of this issue? How do you think we can stop it? Discuss.

 

[doesn't matter]

Sustainability usually means the well being of the enviroment.

It doesn't. It means to meet the needs of the present without impeding upon the needs of the future. An example of this would be only using the resources we need, giving them time to recover for future generations, rather than taking all we can get till there is nothing left.

 

[twocows]

Living means causing others to suffer. Your convenience will always come at the cost of someone's blood and tears. In the end, I think all you can really ask of people is to do right to those they meet and, if they're feeling particularly generous, triage the suffering of the world and help where it's needed most. I don't think differently made phones are the solution to the greater problem: that there will always be a demand for cheap electronics and corporations will always take whatever shortcuts they can to get them made.

If you think this will help, though, then I wish you well in your crusade.

 

[Kanzler]

Actually, benzene isn't completely banned in Canada. Construction works bump into it as an occupational hazard. As regular civilians, we can encounter it in paints and solvents - stuff you'd find at the hardware store and possibly in the garage if your dad's into that kinda stuff.

Who is responsible for the workers' suffering?

Is it the government? Governments have a responsibility to protect the environment and the health of their citizens. But surely China has environmental standards and they aren't being followed - so perhaps it's an issue of enforcement. Does the government have the ability to enforce their regulations or are they just not trying hard enough? Perhaps the regulations aren't even strict enough. Governments also have a responsibility to provide their citizens with economic opportunities. Is it their fault for letting in these polluting industries or is there realistically not much of a choice?

Is it then the fault of these companies who run the factories? Perhaps it's the fault of the leadership who don't really care about the plight of their workers and see sick people and damaged environments as an externality. Or maybe it's the fault of the factory manager who's shirking some of his responsibilities and padding the bottom line. Perhaps it's the board of directors who really couldn't care less about anything other than the return on investment. Or perhaps the leadership says they care to the public, yet turns a blind eye and knows about everything going on in the dark. Or perhaps there just isn't really another way to build an iPhone (at a given price).

My short answer is: I don't think we can or should stop it.

The long answer is: What is it do we want to stop? Worker's suffering? Environmental damage? Should the government be pressured to alleviate the plight of migrant workers, invest more in protecting the environment, strengthen regulations and tighten enforcement against rule-breakers? All of the above are happening in some way or another. Should the government work harder? I'd say that government can only work so hard, change doesn't happen in a day. Great government policies need a lot of time and effort and dedicated people and understanding of all the factors. At the end of the day, even if everybody has the best of intentions, you have to work with what you've got.

I actually have great hopes for economic development in China, even at the expense of environmental and health damage. I think that there is a general consensus among all parties involved that pollution is going to be a necessary evil in China's modernization. People recognize that even though it is to the detriment of their health and environment, polluting industries do present an economic opportunity that would otherwise be absent. Ultimately, many people are living better than they were even just a decade ago.

 

[White Raven]

It doesn't. It means to meet the needs of the present without impeding upon the needs of the future. An example of this would be only using the resources we need, giving them time to recover for future generations, rather than taking all we can get till there is nothing left.

isn't the well being of the environment just that? I mean, if we take all the resources, would that be good for the environment?

Actually, benzene isn't completely banned in Canada. Construction works bump into it as an occupational hazard. As regular civilians, we can encounter it in paints and solvents - stuff you'd find at the hardware store and possibly in the garage if your dad's into that kinda stuff.

Who is responsible for the workers' suffering?

Is it the government? Governments have a responsibility to protect the environment and the health of their citizens. But surely China has environmental standards and they aren't being followed - so perhaps it's an issue of enforcement. Does the government have the ability to enforce their regulations or are they just not trying hard enough? Perhaps the regulations aren't even strict enough. Governments also have a responsibility to provide their citizens with economic opportunities. Is it their fault for letting in these polluting industries or is there realistically not much of a choice?

Is it then the fault of these companies who run the factories? Perhaps it's the fault of the leadership who don't really care about the plight of their workers and see sick people and damaged environments as an externality. Or maybe it's the fault of the factory manager who's shirking some of his responsibilities and padding the bottom line. Perhaps it's the board of directors who really couldn't care less about anything other than the return on investment. Or perhaps the leadership says they care to the public, yet turns a blind eye and knows about everything going on in the dark. Or perhaps there just isn't really another way to build an iPhone (at a given price).

My short answer is: I don't think we can or should stop it.

The long answer is: What is it do we want to stop? Worker's suffering? Environmental damage? Should the government be pressured to alleviate the plight of migrant workers, invest more in protecting the environment, strengthen regulations and tighten enforcement against rule-breakers? All of the above are happening in some way or another. Should the government work harder? I'd say that government can only work so hard, change doesn't happen in a day. Great government policies need a lot of time and effort and dedicated people and understanding of all the factors. At the end of the day, even if everybody has the best of intentions, you have to work with what you've got.

I actually have great hopes for economic development in China, even at the expense of environmental and health damage. I think that there is a general consensus among all parties involved that pollution is going to be a necessary evil in China's modernization. People recognize that even though it is to the detriment of their health and environment, polluting industries do present an economic opportunity that would otherwise be absent. Ultimately, many people are living better than they were even just a decade ago.

I know that it isn't totally banned. It's just that the average person here would not be working with it everyday.

Ultimately, many people are living better than they were even just a decade ago.

Are you saying that we should sacrifice someone's life just so a few hundred people can play Flappy Bird? There are healthier alternatives to these chemicals ruining people's lives.

Living means causing others to suffer. Your convenience will always come at the cost of someone's blood and tears. In the end, I think all you can really ask of people is to do right to those they meet and, if they're feeling particularly generous, triage the suffering of the world and help where it's needed most. I don't think differently made phones are the solution to the greater problem: that there will always be a demand for cheap electronics and corporations will always take whatever shortcuts they can to get them made.

If you think this will help, though, then I wish you well in your crusade.

Why can't our convenience come at the cost of sweat? We don't need it like blood. We don't excrete it because we are sad.

People are also fighting for other parts of the greater problem. Eventually, more and more problems will be solved, but people who want more money will make more problems. It is until there are no more bad resources legal to be used by untrained laborers will we see the problems gone forever. All the banning will account for something in the end.

 

[Kanzler]

Are you saying that we should sacrifice someone's life just so a few hundred people can play Flappy Bird? There are healthier alternatives to these chemicals ruining people's lives.

Yes.

I've been going back to China over the years and I've noticed some changes. The pollution over Beijing has gotten worse. But my dad's hometown has been growing. And new and prettier buildings are popping up. Just two years ago it got access to high-speed rail.

We sacrifice lives all the time. Construction and mining workers have to deal with physical injury as an occupational hazard. Firefighters run into burning buildings as their job. You'll have to qualify that statement, because the world revolves around a few people sacrificing for the good of others.

Besides, I don't even have Flappy Bird on my phone.

 

[BadPokemon]

I have to agree with Jeannes thinkin here. I knew about all the cheap labor in china, so the cost to make materials was also cheap. But, I didn't think it was this bad. Think about it: someone gets a job, good, and dies 2 months later. Bad. It seems like people have no sympathy for these people. I have no idea how to fix this. I feel like a hypocrite because I'm typing this on my iPhone. Good job raising awareness!

 

[twocows]

Why can't our convenience come at the cost of sweat? We don't need it like blood. We don't excrete it because we are sad.

That's just the way it works. People want cheap, quality products. Businesses want to supply those, so they in turn want cheap labor. In poverty-stricken places, there's always a lack of jobs and income, so cheap labor is easy to come by.

My point is that any significant change is going to have to change the way this system works.

People are also fighting for other parts of the greater problem. Eventually, more and more problems will be solved, but people who want more money will make more problems. It is until there are no more bad resources legal to be used by untrained laborers will we see the problems gone forever. All the banning will account for something in the end.

Any approach you take is going to have its own problems. Banning things will put people out of work and usually just shift the labor force elsewhere. You could try to sell people on sustainable electronics like you're doing here, but if you want to make significant change, you have to convince a LOT of people, and that's a hard sell because a lot of people won't care.

If you're going to make a real difference on this issue, you'll need to find like-minded people to work with and a solid plan of action. Getting a group together and coming up with a plan will help you focus your efforts where you can make a difference. I'd recommend looking online for advocacy groups for this sort of thing and possibly joining up with them or otherwise helping them out. I'm sure there are groups out there who campaign for causes like this.

 

[White Raven]

Any approach you take is going to have its own problems. Banning things will put people out of work and usually just shift the labor force elsewhere. You could try to sell people on sustainable electronics like you're doing here, but if you want to make significant change, you have to convince a LOT of people, and that's a hard sell because a lot of people won't care.

If you're going to make a real difference on this issue, you'll need to find like-minded people to work with and a solid plan of action. Getting a group together and coming up with a plan will help you focus your efforts where you can make a difference. I'd recommend looking online for advocacy groups for this sort of thing and possibly joining up with them or otherwise helping them out. I'm sure there are groups out there who campaign for causes like this.

I know that banning things will put a lot of people out of work. But they do have work, it's just less rewarding, money-wise. Like I said, most of them are farmers. They seek a better life in the city or a larger town, in return they pretty much throw their life away. I doubt I am a person that will make a big impact, especially since I know nothing about how industries can use safer components in place of the banned ones. I am just a voice raising awareness, make people on PC know about these tragedies happening to people, young and old. Who knows? Maybe someone powerful who likes the Pokemon and news will feel like they need to do something about what they saw in the video. The more people who have heard of this, the more likely someone braver will stand up, the more likely the pressure on electronic companies doing this will grow. Just telling people, online or not, will do something in the end.

I mean, if organizations like PETA can have millions of followers, why can't this cause have that many?

 

[twocows]

I know that banning things will put a lot of people out of work. But they do have work, it's just less rewarding, money-wise. Like I said, most of them are farmers. They seek a better life in the city or a larger town, in return they pretty much throw their life away. I doubt I am a person that will make a big impact, especially since I know nothing about how industries can use safer components in place of the banned ones. I am just a voice raising awareness, make people on PC know about these tragedies happening to people, young and old. Who knows? Maybe someone powerful who likes the Pokemon and news will feel like they need to do something about what they saw in the video. The more people who have heard of this, the more likely someone braver will stand up, the more likely the pressure on electronic companies doing this will grow. Just telling people, online or not, will do something in the end.

I mean, if organizations like PETA can have millions of followers, why can't this cause have that many?

That's what I'm saying, though. If you think this is a worthy cause, you should join such an organization. You'll be able to better focus your efforts where you can make the most difference since there's a lot of smart people usually looking to figure out where to focus their efforts.

I don't like PETA in particular, though. They're kind of... evil. But that's another thread altogether.

Also, while that's true, I think one of the larger problems is that there's less and less farmland which is causing some of the movement to inner cities. Less farmland and falling food prices means farming, already not the most lucrative profession, becomes even harder to make a living off of.

 

[Kanzler]

Not really. Since China marketized agriculture in the 80's, it meant that people started bothering to make farming more efficient by buying machinery and stuff, just like Western countries. This lead to a surplus of rural labour which was perfect for a deficit of urban labour with the manufacturing boom in big eastern cities. Besides, Chinese migrant workers aren't so stupid as to throw their lives away just by moving into the cities >> They know it pays better, but they also know it's risky. The suffering they may have to go through is harsh, but not everybody is as badly off as those in the video. I would say that a lot of them do find that better life they were looking for.