Your View of God

Just read this story, and it perfectly illustrates why I have such disdain for organized religion:

Officials: Calif. parents outsourced beating of son
By The Associated Press

IRVINE, Calif. -- Authorities say a California couple who suspected their 15-year-old son of smoking turned to a man relied on in their church to violently discipline children.

San Bernardino County sheriff's spokesperson Cindy Bachmann said Saturday that the Irvine parents asked 39-year-old Paul Kim to discipline their son after finding a lighter in the teen's possession, and they dropped the boy off at Kim's Chino Hills home with permission for the beating.

Bachmann says Kim hit the child with a metal pole, causing severe bruising.

Kim was arrested Tuesday and released Thursday after posting bail.

Bachmann says the district attorney's office was reviewing the case and will decide whether to charge the teen's father. It wasn't immediately known whether the father was present at the time of the beating.
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A belief in God can be a healthy thing in a person's life. However, like most things, too much can cause real harm. It's people like these who use their religion to justify their need to dominate others.

Believe in a God if you must, but the moment your belief becomes fanatical, that's when you become dangerous to society.
 
Jay_37040 said:
Just read this story, and it perfectly illustrates why I have such disdain for organized religion:



A belief in God can be a healthy thing in a person's life. However, like most things, too much can cause real harm. It's people like these who use their religion to justify their need to dominate others.

Believe in a God if you must, but the moment your belief becomes fanatical, that's when you become dangerous to society.
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Way to use one extreme example to stereotype billions of people around the world!

The same can be with every religions including atheism.
 
Jay_37040 said:
A belief in God can be a healthy thing in a person's life. However, like most things, too much can cause real harm. It's people like these who use their religion to justify their need to dominate others.

Believe in a God if you must, but the moment your belief becomes fanatical, that's when you become dangerous to society.
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So true; but I take it a step further. I say blind faith is dangerous.
 
FreakyLocz14 said:
Way to use one extreme example to stereotype billions of people around the world!

The same can be with every religions including atheism.
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Note my criticism was with people who take their religion to such an extreme that they can cause harm to another, such as a child, for the sake of their beliefs. Note also I was careful to separate those who believe in God from organized religion, which are two completely separate concepts. If you read that I was critical of people who believe in God, you read it wrong.

Oh, and to clarify, atheism, contrary to your assertion, is NOT a religion. To quote George Ricker:

"Atheism is the absence of god-belief. All else is embellishment. Atheism has no dogma, no rites, no holy books, no places of worship and no clergy of any description. It offers no moral guidance, no political opinions and no world view. It is not a religion."
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Ever since I left my Christian high school, I've been exposed to evidence provided by professors in college that support all kinds of religions and theories. With evidence popping up in every sect, I have no clue what to believe. And I don't care any longer.
 
Jay_37040 said:


Note my criticism was with people who take their religion to such an extreme that they can cause harm to another, such as a child, for the sake of their beliefs. Note also I was careful to separate those who believe in God from organized religion, which are two completely separate concepts. If you read that I was critical of people who believe in God, you read it wrong.

Oh, and to clarify, atheism, contrary to your assertion, is NOT a religion. To quote George Ricker:
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Atheism is a religion because it is faith-based. There is no evidence that God does not exist, so to believe so without evidence is a belief based on faith. Agnosticism the complete absence of dogma.
 
FreakyLocz14 said:
Atheism is a religion because it is faith-based. There is no evidence that God does not exist, so to believe so without evidence is a belief based on faith. Agnosticism the complete absence of dogma.
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It is not a religion. Seriously, it's not. And you're wrong about agnosticism. Here this might help.

Atheism is NOT a religion. It is NOT faith based. How can it be faith based when it is a LACK of faith? Just because most religions require faith does not mean all forms of faith are associated with religion. I have faith that my mother will buy me a birthday present; does that mean that it's a religion? No this is merely based off of previous experiences.

A religion, as stated

Sam Harris said:
Atheism is not a philosophy; it is not even a view of the world; it is simply a refusal to deny the obvious.
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Now, Mr. Harris is a little blunt, mind.



Here is a list of what makes a religion... religion...
  • Belief in supernatural beings (gods).
  • A distinction between sacred and profane objects.
  • Ritual acts focused on sacred objects.
  • A moral code believed to be sanctioned by the gods.
  • Characteristically religious feelings (awe, sense of mystery, sense of guilt, adoration), which tend to be aroused in the presence of sacred objects and during the practice of ritual, and which are connected in idea with the gods.
  • Prayer and other forms of communication with gods.
  • A more or less total organization of one's life based on the world view.
  • A world view, or a general picture of the world as a whole and the place of the individual therein. This picture contains some specification of an over-all purpose or point of the world and an indication of how the individual fits into it. (note this and the next to can be manipulated into anything... when I see a Pokemon religion I will have given up on humanity.)
  • A social group bound together by the above.
Last time I checked, atheists don't go to church or pray to invisible friends.

Also the definition of atheism:
disbelief or lack of belief in the existence of God or gods.
 
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Jay_37040 said:
Just read this story, and it perfectly illustrates why I have such disdain for organized religion:



A belief in God can be a healthy thing in a person's life. However, like most things, too much can cause real harm. It's people like these who use their religion to justify their need to dominate others.

Believe in a God if you must, but the moment your belief becomes fanatical, that's when you become dangerous to society.
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Fanatical is not the right word. Distortion is more like it. Martin Luther King was a civil rights fanatic. Fanaticism can be a good thing and IS a good thing if you follow Jesus's teaching to the letter. All the "Christian" atrocities that people mention are admittedly by atheists people who blatantly disobey God's word. Thou shall not commit murder for instance. They distort the word of God, and do blatant unchristian things in his name. That is NOT Christianity, that is sin.

Now, as for proof of God, it is this. Einstein's theory of relativity which has been proven to the fifth decimal says that time, space, and matter came into existence at one time. In other words EVERYTHING came into existence in one instant. Scientists have called this the big bang. The problem is that if space, time, and matter suddenly existed in one instant what was there to explode?

Energy? Nope, because there was no space. There was NOTHING without space and time. However there is a logical answer to this. There is a higher being that created time, space, and matter. That being is God. Besides explosions are an instrument of destruction not creation.
 
aspie3000 said:
Fanaticism can be a good thing and IS a good thing if you follow Jesus's teaching to the letter. All the "Christian" atrocities that people mention are admittedly by atheists people who blatantly disobey God's word. Thou shall not commit murder for instance. They distort the word of God, and do blatant unchristian things in his name. That is NOT Christianity, that is sin.
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God says let not a homosexual live (as in, kill them), Jesus says love each other and treat each other like how you want to be treated.

God says thou shalt not kill, but also says to kill homosexuals?

Am I the only one whose brain just went boom after trying to figure out which part God wants us to follow?

As for God/Jesus, didn't God say to worship no one else before me? And don't most people worship both Jesus and God? (Usually Jesus first, then God)?

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Sorry, my brain just blew up... again.

Now do you see just why I am NOT a Christian? I'd follow the faith if God/Jesus/Bible would say something and not change views a couple hundred pages later.

Actually, explosions are both destroyers and creators.

Sure, it destroys whatever was (previously) there. But you know what else it does? It creates a crater. Or a scorched plot of land. Or a field of rubble.
 
Mr. X said:
God says let not a homosexual live (as in, kill them), Jesus says love each other and treat each other like how you want to be treated.

God says thou shalt not kill, but also says to kill homosexuals?

Am I the only one whose brain just went boom after trying to figure out which part God wants us to follow?

As for God/Jesus, didn't God say to worship no one else before me? And don't most people worship both Jesus and God? (Usually Jesus first, then God)?

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Sorry, my brain just blew up... again.

Now do you see just why I am NOT a Christian? I'd follow the faith if God/Jesus/Bible would say something and not change views a couple hundred pages later.

Actually, explosions are both destroyers and creators.

Sure, it destroys whatever was (previously) there. But you know what else it does? It creates a crater. Or a scorched plot of land. Or a field of rubble.
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The bible NEVER says to kill homosexuals to my knowledge. And the word for "kill" in the thou shalt not kill commandment is ratsach which has many meanings. The most likely meaning for its usage is murder.

As for why Jesus is worshiped as God? He was God made flesh; it says that very clearly in the bible.

A crater, a scorched plot of land, and a field of rubble aren't creations, they are the aftermath of destruction. Plus, in order for a crater, a scorched plot of land, or a field of rubble to be there, something had to exist before hand which in the case of the big bang, even atheists agree nothing existed. That is their flaw, if nothing existed, how did the big bang occur?

Edit: Actually, the homosexual part is in the old testament but as a law for Israel. That was part of the religious law of Israel. When Jesus came, a lot of the things in the law were abolished.
 
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FreakyLocz14 said:
Atheism is a religion because it is faith-based. There is no evidence that God does not exist, so to believe so without evidence is a belief based on faith.
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That's absurd. First of all, there's plenty of evidence even that there is no higher power, let alone the Christian God. Second, those of us who consider ourselves "agnostic atheists" (as opposed to "gnostic atheists") are not blindly believing anything. We're pretty much saying "this makes the most sense, but as with anything, the possibility exists that we're wrong."
 
aspie3000 said:
The bible NEVER says to kill homosexuals to my knowledge. And the word for "kill" in the thou shalt not kill commandment is ratsach which has many meanings. The most likely meaning for its usage is murder.

As for why Jesus is worshiped as God? He was God made flesh; it says that very clearly in the bible.

A crater, a scorched plot of land, and a field of rubble aren't creations, they are the aftermath of destruction. Plus, in order for a crater, a scorched plot of land, or a field of rubble to be there, something had to exist before hand which in the case of the big bang, even atheists agree nothing existed. That is their flaw, if nothing existed, how did the big bang occur?

Edit: Actually, the homosexual part is in the old testament but as a law for Israel. That was part of the religious law of Israel. When Jesus came, a lot of the things in the law were abolished.
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Point stands. Not clear enough. If im going to follow something, then I want it to always be clear, precise, and to the point. I don't want it to be filled with vague statements that can easily be interpreted in many ways.

If Jesus is God then why do they have different names? Different names symbolize different people/beings.

I'm going to stay away from that comment. I dislike thinking deep into that particular subject as it usually results in giving me a migraine that lasts for days.

And when were the Ten Commandments first mentioned? Old Testament. When was the law mentioned? Old Testament. Point still stands.

Still, the Bible isn't trustworthy. Know why? Humans are imperfect. Humans translated it. Imperfect beings messed with perfection. The Bible, therefor, is no longer perfect as it has been tainted with the touch of imperfect beings. I could argue the same point about the first chapters in the new testament, being told from the POV of imperfect beings.

Scientifically, if it can't be proven to exist or not exist then you have to go with it doesn't exist. After all, its accepted that Space Ponies don't exist even though their existence or nonexistence can't be proven.
 
Mr. X said:
Point stands. Not clear enough. If im going to follow something, then I want it to always be clear, precise, and to the point. I don't want it to be filled with vague statements that can easily be interpreted in many ways.

If Jesus is God then why do they have different names? Different names symbolize different people/beings.

I'm going to stay away from that comment. I dislike thinking deep into that particular subject as it usually results in giving me a migraine that lasts for days.

And when were the Ten Commandments first mentioned? Old Testament. When was the law mentioned? Old Testament. Point still stands.

Still, the Bible isn't trustworthy. Know why? Humans are imperfect. Humans translated it. Imperfect beings messed with perfection. The Bible, therefor, is no longer perfect as it has been tainted with the touch of imperfect beings. I could argue the same point about the first chapters in the new testament, being told from the POV of imperfect beings.

Scientifically, if it can't be proven to exist or not exist then you have to go with it doesn't exist. After all, its accepted that Space Ponies don't exist even though their existence or nonexistence can't be proven.
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Jesus is God's son, God himself. Made to be a sacrifice for us so we could live and still have a chance to make heaven.

EDIT: What an awesome 2000th post. Thank you God! :)
 
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Now, as for proof of God, it is this. Einstein's theory of relativity which has been proven to the fifth decimal says that time, space, and matter came into existence at one time. In other words EVERYTHING came into existence in one instant. Scientists have called this the big bang. The problem is that if space, time, and matter suddenly existed in one instant what was there to explode?

Energy? Nope, because there was no space. There was NOTHING without space and time. However there is a logical answer to this. There is a higher being that created time, space, and matter. That being is God. Besides explosions are an instrument of destruction not creation.
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This is the proof. This and the the fact that the numbers involved in the universe and life coming about by itself are off the scale astronomical. If you aren't convinced by this you can't be convinced. Good bye and God Bless you and I don't mean that sarcastically.
 
Again, as I've said before, I'm Agnostic. The space ponies comment was directed to freaky and twocows little discussion.
 
Again, can you give me solid evidence that God exists? And by solid, I mean something other then "You can't prove it false or true so it must be true."
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That is solid evidence. Nothing but God could create something out of literally nothing. To say anything else is a logical fallacy.

Also, if everything came together in a instant, wouldn't that mean God did too? After all, nothing existed at all before then. If nothing existed, then that means neither did God. And if something did exist before, then that means that the argument about being the creator of everything is false.
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Space, matter, and time does not include God. He is above it all. When I say everything, I mean everything except God. God created the space, matter, and time. Now if you're arguing against Einstein that everything did NOT come into existence in an instant math would disagree with you.
 
Again, can you give me solid evidence that God exists? And by solid, I mean something other then "You can't prove it false or true so it must be true."
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Seriously, you did exactly what they said not to do
aspie3000 said:
That is solid evidence. Nothing but God could create something out of literally nothing. To say anything else is a logical fallacy.
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Who say's only god could create something outta nothing? What proof do you have to back up this theory? because without solid evidence this is just an idea. The greeks believe in many gods and they too believed only their gods could create a world such as the one we live in, so what makes your god superior to theirs?

Theory of relativity. Look at the first word of this statement. A theory is a conclusion based on evidence they have found to fit the idea. According to the evidence the big bang theory is said to be correct. How do we know for certain? There could have been another way the universe started. Also as you know from either the news or the new planet found thread another planet was found in a different galaxy or universe. What created that one? A big bang? or was that there first? or were we? We just don't know. We go by what we do know, the facts we can find to fit the evidence. So far no Evidence has proven god to be real or fake, he simply just is an idea. Some people to chose believe in that idea while other dismiss the idea, but it doesn't change the facts...
 
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And even ideal's thought true based on biblical interpretation's can be/are wrong.

Earth being center of our solar system?
How about this planet only being ~5k years old?

These were, at their time, religious based ideals that were backed up with the bible and yet later proven false with science.

And although it seems that way, this post isn't anti-god. Its anti-religion.
 
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