6th Gen Pokemon Bank

[Saroku]

But my argument isn't that creating Pokemon is recognised as right by everyone else, is it? It is my opinion that it should be allowed. Just because it is everyone elses view that it shouldn't be allowed, it doesn't mean that I have to think that. Just because gamefreak say it is cheating, doesn't mean that I have to believe it. They could be saying that because it is the majorities opinion. You can't say for certain that there reason for saying that it is cheating is necessarily correct.

This denial of cheating is becoming silly. Anything not intended by the game creators is cheating, you can still do it but don't deny that you are doing it.
And no, the game creators don't want people to create Pokemon instead of obtaining them with the game they made. Otherwise they would have added a Pokemon Creation item into the game.

 

[Sceptile14]

Actually yes you do have to recognize it. In any sports, they'll condone certain acts as cheating. if you are caught doing such acts you are violating them and are cheating. It is recognized as cheating therefore you are cheating. Gamefreak created the games. If they say using an external device is cheating then it is cheating. We were not meant to create our own Pokemon through Apps, hacking hardware such as Action Replays, and through use of websites. It IS cheating. It also comes at a very high risk to your games.



My biggest issue with external devices is that they violently insert the code and can transfer fragmented data into your game in which you stand a chance to lose everything you did work for just by using it. A price to pay for cheating.

As for the creating, they did not earn those Pokemon, they should have to work for it, even if all the work they need to do is ask a friend to do the breeding for them. If they don't have the time to breed they shouldn't have the time to battle. If they make time to battle, then they can make time to breed. Time saving options should be use of in game items like the Egg Charm, Matsuda Method, IV hunting and in game items to pass on more wanted IVs. If you need more time saving options, find a friend that knows what they are doing, already has majority of the work finished and ask them to do it. Don't cheat.

But as far as I am aware, Pokemon isn't a sport, it is a video game.
"If they don't have time to breed they shouldn't have time to battle" This isn't really correct. Battles usually take about 10 minutes, while breeding can take hours to do. Also, those methods of breeding you mentioned are also very time consuming. The egg charm I believe, is given to you when you complete the national pokedex, which can take days and weeks in itself, unless you create the Pokemon.

 

[Outlier]

I didn't, did you read the rest of what I said? This whole argument is based on our opinions, and why we think we have the right to use pokegen. You think it is cheating and I respect that. However, don't try and tell me what to think. Just because they ban you if you use them in tournaments(which I don't even play coincidentally) Doesn't mean that I can't use them when playing with friends or with other people on battlespot, where there is nothing at stake accept for a record.
So no, it isn't case closed. My argument isn't that pokegen is or not cheating, it is whether it should be allowed. Next time, take into account what I said afterwards, because just picking out one, small part of the post isn't very smart. It makes it out as if you are purposely trying to ignore what I am trying to tell you -_-

I actually addressed all of your post. I think you're the one who's purposefully ignoring any of the points made against you.

The rules aren't subjective. They were set in place by the developers of this game. You and anybody else who hack their Pokemon are simply cheaters, cheaters, pumpkin eaters. {:3}

 

[Sceptile14]

Pokegen IS cheating, and actually they can block your game from Battle Spot as its regulated by TPC and Gamefreak. It is also the main way they are hosting tournaments now as well. So they can ban your use on online play if they suspect abnormal behavior with your game.

Cheating isn't allowed. Should never be allowed. Pokegen has been blacklisted by Gamefreak and TPC and will result in a ban if caught using Pokemon created from it. Its not a matter of opinion.

Technically, it still is. Just because they ban it, doesn't mean that I'm not allowed to believe that it should be allowed. No matter who believes it shouldn't be allowed, I will still have my own opinion, you can't change that.

 

[Saroku]

But as far as I am aware, Pokemon isn't a sport, it is a video game.
"If they don't have time to breed they shouldn't have time to battle" This isn't really correct. Battles usually take about 10 minutes, while breeding can take hours to do. Also, those methods of breeding you mentioned are also very time consuming. The egg charm I believe, is given to you when you complete the national pokedex, which can take days and weeks in itself, unless you create the Pokemon.

Thats how the game works, thats how the game was made. If you use 3rd party programms to skip that, you are cheating, from the perspective of the ORIGINAL game. Thats a fact, unless you can prove that in the vanilla game there is a pokemon creation item or something like that obtainable.

 

[SaniOKh]

When you think about it, if no one was cheating in the first place, we wouldn't have this problem. No one would see it necessary to have perfect IVs everywhere, because no one else would have them.

Except for the few who spend ungodly amounts of time breeding, but when you think about it, those people, don't they deserve to win with all the time they spend preparing their team?

Even if in theory I have nothing against hackers, it still bothers me that in the end people who play legitimately, as in "the way GF/TPCi/Nintendo intended", are the ones who get the short end of the stick, because no matter what they do, they still end up having teams that aren't viable online.

 

[Sceptile14]

I actually addressed all of your post. I think you're the one who's purposefully ignoring any of the points made against you.

The rules aren't subjective. They were set in place by the developers of this game. You and anybody else who hack their Pokemon are simply cheaters, cheaters, pumpkin eaters. {:3}

All rules are subjective though. What you are saying is that I am not allowed to believe that the rules should be changed, which is basically taking away my freedom of speech. Let me go back to my main argument again. I believe that pokegen should be allowed to be used. I never mentioned the fact that gamefreak have banned it. This doesn't effect my opinion, and why should it?
Overall, I don't care what anyone else says, I will continue to use pokegen, because it saves a lot of time, that I can use for other stuff, and I see nothing wrong with it. If I am allowed to use them, then I will, If I can't, then who cares? I will be a bit annoyed but I wont be distraught about it.

When you think about it, if no one was cheating in the first place, we wouldn't have this problem. No one would see it necessary to have perfect IVs everywhere, because no one else would have them.

Except for the few who spend ungodly amounts of time breeding, but when you think about it, those people, don't they deserve to win with all the time they spend preparing their team?

Even if in theory I have nothing against hackers, it still bothers me that in the end people who play legitimately, as in "the way GF/TPCi/Nintendo intended", are the ones who get the short end of the stick, because no matter what they do, they still end up having teams that aren't viable online.

When I look for battles on smogon I always ay I use pokegen, just incase someone who does it legitimately battles me thinking I do the same. Before X and Y, when this is what I did, no one ever complained, and if I can use pokegen Pokemon, then this is what I will do.

This denial of cheating is becoming silly. Anything not intended by the game creators is cheating, you can still do it but don't deny that you are doing it.
And no, the game creators don't want people to create Pokemon instead of obtaining them with the game they made. Otherwise they would have added a Pokemon Creation item into the game.

I am not denying that I am doing it. I am just stating that to me, it should be allowed.

 

[Outlier]

Glad to see no more insults - aside from arrogance but my wife accuses of me of that so no arguments there.

I laid out my situation for people to see another take. there are plenty of people on here with a lot of time, I laid out what having no time looks like. As for my assuming I have more commitments than 90% of people on here, whether it's arrogant or not is neither here nor there. The odds are pretty good but that was never the point of my comments (though it does seem to be where your focus is), the POINT was to lay out that there are bound to be people who have limited time and that hacking is pretty much the only viable way to play the entertaining bit AND not spend entire months of our free time doing so.

There was no value judgement (I was not the originator of the claims of "value" on time in this thread), but an explaining of what another's argument may be. I prefer to see an argument from ALL sides. Interestingly this was my attempt, I have more middle ground (though still hacking to most) in that I have only hacked for either cloning or item purposes, I have never used Pokesv or others, nor have I ever changed a Pokes IVs, nature, etc.

But I prefer trying to see things from various angles. And in this case since "cheating" doesn't impact me in any meaningful way then I don't care. So I have to face a team of hacked Pokemon on the battle spot? As long as they are just hacked to still be game legal it's no different to facing any other team and in so in NO WAY changes my enjoyment of the game.

And that's key here. Does someone creating what would otherwise be legal Pokemon impact YOUR enjoyment of the game? If you prefer playing against substandard Pokemon, maybe. But if you are in the battle to "be the best", then for me it ADDS enjoyment knowing I am facing teams at the top of their abilities.




Again I am trying to stress how other people can view the game. The question is, how do they/we play the game impact on YOUR game?



Define illegal. Will I be arrested? No. Am I creating something that couldn't be created? No.

Is it tournament legal? Probably not, but that again is a different matter.

I didn't say it affects my overall enjoyment of the game. I do enjoy this game. But keep in mind this is a competitive game and a huge part of being competitive in this game is making sure you've built a strong team.

It bothers me that so many people hack their pokemon when I and many others go through the effort of building our teams the right way. As with any form of competition I don't want my opponent to have an unfair and not to mention illegal advantage. I don't want to face sub-standard pokemon either. I wanna face whatever pokemon my opponent managed to breed/raise/catch ect. So long as they were obtained legitimately and are within the rules of the game.

 

[SnowpointQuincy]

I think we can all agree that name calling is bad. We should stick to the facts and logic and not attack the people speaking.

I just believe that if you want to Battle, instantly Create mons for battle, and do nothing in-game but battle. Pokemon Showdown Allows you to do all that in an environment where everyone accepts that as the rules.

Showdown is also divided into tiers allowing bad pokemon, like Spinda, to have a chance against a similar caliber a mon.

I play Showdown, mostly the team builder, to look at stats and plan EV spreads. I also battle there to test out new mons I never trained before.

I have an Aggron EV Trained for WiFi, her IVs are not perfect, but good enough. I would never train another Agrron, because of the memories and battles we shared.

I also spent 10 hours breeding the perfect Mandibuzz. And for the life of me I can't remember why I wasted so much time.

If I wanted an absolute perfect Mandibuzz, I could have just played Showdown and had 10 extra hours to my life.

There's nothing wrong with battling with perfect mons, but you can make the choice to do so in an environment where everyone agrees that those are the rules.

 

[DiscordDave]

Two very vital things here that people seem to ignore:

1. Cheaters are gonna cheat, and anti-cheaters are gonna hate. No-one is going to convert anyone to one side or the other with arguments here. So the majority of the arguments are moot.

2. The only way to BEGIN to even try to prevent cheating, is to make everything stored 100% on Nintendo's servers, just like in an MMORPG. But guess what, even those are rampant with cheating, so there will never be anything in Pokemon that is guaranteed 100% free of cheating.

With the way mods lock threads on Pokemon forums, I can not understand why this one wasn't locked within the first few replies....

 

[Xander Olivieri]

2. The only way to BEGIN to even try to prevent cheating, is to make everything stored 100% on Nintendo's servers, just like in an MMORPG. But guess what, even those are rampant with cheating, so there will never be anything in Pokemon that is guaranteed 100% free of cheating.

This isn't exactly true. I mean Pokegen exists because they sorta hacked the main website and created a cloned GTS signal that can send Pokemon to the games through the GTS. WoW and other MMOs get hacked fairly often and hacked items are created, don't see how that would stop hacked Pokemon.

There is never a 100% guarantee against cheating which is sad.


The Bank attempted to stop this by not giving the pentagon to transferred Pokemon so that they cannot be used in online tournaments. Whether they patch the battle spot to match the same limitations is really the only thing GF can do to prevent past hacks that slip through to be blocked.

 

[DiscordDave]

That was precisely my point. They are never going to 100% stop cheating/hacking/abusing RNG etc etc etc.

To even attempt to begin to limit the amount of hacks, they would have to store everything on their servers. And that would kill the whole point of a handheld system like a DS, PSP etc.

Now that there are good games only on the 3DS, I would bet good money that the companies that make cheat devices are hard at work on cracking the hardware so that they can make new flash cards and action replays. Cheating is major money to them. Just like malware, virii and hacking accounts is big money to criminals. It's only a matter of time.

While it would be great to have a game that is hack-proof, to think that it will be so, ever, is just pure fantasy.

 

[pkmn.master]

I legitimately breed my Pokémon for flawless/near flawless IVs and I have to say that it doesn't take me that long thanks to friend safari, and I generally feel well accomplished after I breed the perfect Pokémon that fits my needs. The bottom line is that cheating is wrong. I know other people might do it, but for what reason does that make it ok for you to do it also? Pokémon X and Y are updated often, and your game is checked every time you access the internet in the game. If you have a Pokémon that you can't legitimately own, the game will ban you from playing online. Same goes for the checks in VGCs. I for one believe that not only should your game be bricked from online activity, but also your save file should be wiped.

 

[Leo the Lion]

All rules are subjective though. What you are saying is that I am not allowed to believe that the rules should be changed, which is basically taking away my freedom of speech. Let me go back to my main argument again. I believe that pokegen should be allowed to be used. I never mentioned the fact that gamefreak have banned it. This doesn't effect my opinion, and why should it?
Overall, I don't care what anyone else says, I will continue to use pokegen, because it saves a lot of time, that I can use for other stuff, and I see nothing wrong with it. If I am allowed to use them, then I will, If I can't, then who cares? I will be a bit annoyed but I wont be distraught about it.



When I look for battles on smogon I always ay I use pokegen, just incase someone who does it legitimately battles me thinking I do the same. Before X and Y, when this is what I did, no one ever complained, and if I can use pokegen Pokemon, then this is what I will do.



I am not denying that I am doing it. I am just stating that to me, it should be allowed.

So, yeah, you are lazy. But, who cares, right? Because you think that beating hard worked pokemon (EV trained or not, i personally hate that) with fake (yes, fake) pokemon is ok. Because you just cant train your pokemon, you have to create them in an illegal (and i say ILLEGAL) way.
I, for example, dont care about EVs, because they are difficult to get, and the only time i hack pokemon is when i finished the game, transfered all my legal pokemon and want to "test" how good those pokemon are. Then i delete them. I never get mad at people with good or hacked pokemon (as long as they dont deny it, like you) when they beat me, i just sit and chillax.
_________________________________________________________________________
Aaaaaaaaaaaaaanyway, back to the main point, is pokebank worth it? In my opinion yes, it is. It lets breeders store loads of eggs and pokemon, and "catchers" (as i like to call them) store all their pokemon.

 

[Layla-Mai]

I legitimately breed my Pokémon for flawless/near flawless IVs and I have to say that it doesn't take me that long thanks to friend safari, and I generally feel well accomplished after I breed the perfect Pokémon that fits my needs. The bottom line is that cheating is wrong. I know other people might do it, but for what reason does that make it ok for you to do it also? Pokémon X and Y are updated often, and your game is checked every time you access the internet in the game. If you have a Pokémon that you can't legitimately own, the game will ban you from playing online. Same goes for the checks in VGCs. I for one believe that not only should your game be bricked from online activity, but also your save file should be wiped.

Can you imagine having your game wiped because a pokemon you believed to be legit was hacked? I bet a few of my collection aren't legit, but that's the risk you take with trading online. A few people have said that it's so unfair to kids to have to battle someone who has hacked pokemon, but it's totally okay to end that kids game because they accidentally end up with a hack?

As long as no one has an unfair advantage (and if the Pokemons stats are in the legit range, they don't) I don't see why people care so much about other peoples Pokemon. Yeah it's annoying that other people have got something easier than you have, but just be happy with your own choices rather than condemn people for not wanting to play the same way as you.

 

[Sceptile14]

So, yeah, you are lazy. But, who cares, right? Because you think that beating hard worked pokemon (EV trained or not, i personally hate that) with fake (yes, fake) pokemon is ok. Because you just cant train your pokemon, you have to create them in an illegal (and i say ILLEGAL) way.
I, for example, dont care about EVs, because they are difficult to get, and the only time i hack pokemon is when i finished the game, transfered all my legal pokemon and want to "test" how good those pokemon are. Then i delete them. I never get mad at people with good or hacked pokemon (as long as they dont deny it, like you) when they beat me, i just sit and chillax.
_________________________________________________________________________
Aaaaaaaaaaaaaanyway, back to the main point, is pokebank worth it? In my opinion yes, it is. It lets breeders store loads of eggs and pokemon, and "catchers" (as i like to call them) store all their pokemon.

But how am I denying it? All I said was that I personally think that we should be able to use it, because of how time consuming it could be. Denial would be if I didn't recognise that it is recognised by TPC and GF as a cheating device. As I have told a lot of people before you, my main argument was that I believe that it should be allowed. That's it.

 

[Count]

But... I'm not. I said that I use pokegen, that's all I have to admit. To you it is cheating, but to me, who hasn't got the time and patience to breed, it is an option. I am not denying that I am, in your opinion, cheating, I am just trying to tell you why I believe that it is justified. Have you heard of opinions? Sure, opinions can be wrong, but they should be respected. I believe that pokegen is something that is fine to use, which means that I believe that I am not a cheater.
I am not justifying my own cheating, because there is no cheating for me to justify.

Let me, for a moment, not talk about whether it is okay what you're doing or not. All I want to say right now is that what you do is cheating, no matter how you put it. No matter how okay it is in your eyes. Or in my eyes. Anyone's eyes. Justifying that you are cheating is one thing. But denying that you are is just incredibly silly. So you might want to stop that.

 

[Redingard]

Kinda funny how a Pokemon Bank discussion suddenly became a Hacking/Cheating thread. But who am I to judge? That's what it was for, amirite?

Anyways, cheating is lazy, and I feel to be wrong. You are clearly too busy to put time and effort into the game, so why not just slap people in the face and practically buy your way to the top. Seems pretty logical to me. I mean, honestly, with the Destiny Knot, Friend Safari, GTS and PPS, how is breeding even remotely possible in this game? Getting a pokemon you want takes like-what?-a couple of hours? I digress. If you don't want to put in the time to play the game, you shouldn't be making the players that do suffer. I kinda hate it when I fight an obviously hacked team and lose simply because my team wasn't uber tiered. Allowing it would make the competitive world a joke.

 

[Cordelia]

The pokegenned pokemon cannot be traded here and if they are, that'll be distributing hacked pokemon and that's very bad juju. I hate hacking, it ruins the game...

 

[Howmander]

Kinda funny how a Pokemon Bank discussion suddenly became a Hacking/Cheating thread. But who am I to judge? That's what it was for, amirite?

Anyways, cheating is lazy, and I feel to be wrong. You are clearly too busy to put time and effort into the game, so why not just slap people in the face and practically buy your way to the top. Seems pretty logical to me. I mean, honestly, with the Destiny Knot, Friend Safari, GTS and PPS, how is breeding even remotely possible in this game? Getting a pokemon you want takes like-what?-a couple of hours? I digress. If you don't want to put in the time to play the game, you shouldn't be making the players that do suffer. I kinda hate it when I fight an obviously hacked team and lose simply because my team wasn't uber tiered. Allowing it would make the competitive world a joke.

Okay, so hacking/cheating to get legitimate pokemon can be called lazy, HOWEVER, what about people who cheat to get the Pokemon not attainable in any way? Regardless of right or wrong, what if someone cheats JUST to get the pokemon that are not possible to catch anymore, or that Nintendo won't give away and hasn't given away in years? (I'm not trying to justify it, I'm just trying to throw another perspective in that not everyone cheats to get amazing stat pokemon with moves they shouldn't have, some people cheat to get pokemon that can't be gotten AT ALL)