sexual orientation

[poopnoodle]

where do you stand on the natural, political, and religious spectrums of this issue? have you experienced any struggle with bigotry from either side? do you see individual sexual preferences as a perfectly natural part of humanity? if so, how long do you think it will take for the world to acknowledge tha? to me, it seems society hasn't completely come to terms with the fact that sexual/romantic attraction isn't limited to feelings for the opposite sex, there's plenty of intolerance being spread from people who are against the big LGBT movement-- there are even countries where people are punished with torture/death simply for being homosexual.

*this isn't exactly intended to be a debate thread but i can see it evolving into one which is perfectly fine, but for the love of god please be respectful when sharing your views. if you disagree with something someone has to say please don't angrily retaliate, give your argument with civility. this isn't something i should have to ask of you guys, but given the past, i'm feelin' a lil wary.

 

[Livewire]

I was having a discussion like this with my teacher and some other kids in my Economics class(Yeah I know. Sexual orientation in a economy-based subject. Pretty off-topic, if you ask me, but whatever). I was quite offended by some of the things that were discussed, but for the sake of keeping the things civil around here, I won't state those certain things.

I do have to say though, I can't really tell if the world is either growing more strict or more lenient when it comes to homosexuality itself. When concerning Trangenderism/Transsexuality, it's completely fine to be transgender to the world(heck, it's even looked up upon in some parts as "two-spirited" at least, according to wikipedia), but it's not okay to kiss and make out with the same sex. I'm assuming this is normally because of biblical reasons, but now saying this, I would like to form an interesting question for thought, one hopefully not offensive and something that would cause a commotion:

If the Bible just happened to not say anything about homosexuality, would society/the world finally accept those who are homosexual for who they are? Is this just an issue with religion and nothing else? If it is, its just disappointing that the world would look at things that way.

I really don't want to bring religion into the issue, as that's not the point, but in order for others to better understand what I'm talking about, I guess it had to be brought up for better clarity, I guess.

I'm pretty sensitive with posting in these kinds of topics also, because I may accidentally say something that's offensive without meaning to, so if I say anything that seems a bit off, please let me know kindly and I apologize for that. ^^;

No need to apologize, that is exactly right. I do think biblical/Judeo christian views tend to get in the way of society as a whole accepting LGBT people, which is sad because those very teachings tell us to love all of our fellow man.

A person's sexual orientation is their own business, and no other person or institution has the right to judge them for it.

 

[poopnoodle]

If the Bible just happened to not say anything about homosexuality, would society/the world finally accept those who are homosexual for who they are? Is this just an issue with religion and nothing else? If it is, its just disappointing that the world would look at things that way.

i'm guessing the root of all the dissension comes from how sex guarantees the prolonging of our species, and our descendants may have feared endangerment of our species, a fear from which society's leaders of the past (bear in mind those in power were religious) morphed into an issue regarding ethics. without religion's heavy influence on the people's perspective, i don't doubt there'd be less controversy surrounding the moral aspect of homosexuality in society.

now there are some people who are against gay marriage that claim it's not homosexuality they're quarrelling, instead the authenticity of the term "marriage" if gays are allowed to marry. such a trivial thing to bicker about- seems like a veiled expression of bigotry, if you ask me.

 

[poopnoodle]

One of the issues that was discussed that I found offensive was a way to "fix" sexuality. It must be brought up that it wasn't the teacher who said this, but rather, a homophobic student.

heh, "de-volution." i've heard that the rise in homosexuality could actually be nature's way of fighting overpopulation of humans. i dont know, but i certainly don't see one's natural preferences as defective. :I

some childish people(like the obvious dumbass in my class) that like to toss around insults like those.

a lot of people could use some enlightening, but be careful not to stoop to their level :b

 

[Livewire]

now there are some people who are against gay marriage that claim it's not homosexuality they're quarrelling, instead the authenticity of the term "marriage" if gays are allowed to marry. such a trivial thing to bicker about- seems like a veiled expression of bigotry, if you ask me.

Indeed. The people that argue that 'Gays can't marry because it violates the sanctity of Marriage' need to wake up and smell the coffee. The divorce rate in America is 50% There is no sanctity.

So It's perfectly fine for two heterosexual people to marry, divorce, mess up their lives and their children's, and hate each other until they die, but two Gay people who genuinely love each other can't?

Bigotry at its worst.

 

[Timbjerr]

Indeed. The people that argue that 'Gays can't marry because it violates the sanctity of Marriage' need to wake up and smell the coffee. The divorce rate in America is 50% There is no sanctity.

So It's perfectly fine for two heterosexual people to marry, divorce, mess up their lives and their children's, and hate each other until they die, but two Gay people who genuinely love each other can't?

Bigotry at its worst.

I agree..when it comes to the issue of marriage goes, I've recently adapted a, "why does it matter" stance. Heterosexual couples make a joke of marriage anyways, what guarantee do we have that homosexual couples won't? It would also carry the unfortunate and undesirable implication that homosexuals are more capable of love than their heterosexual counterparts. >_>

I dunno, it might just be because I'm the type of person who doesn't get involved in other people's affairs, but I rarely see prejudice against homosexuals in this day and age. Not even the regular church-goers that make up 3/4 of my small network of "friends" seem to be homophobic.

 

[FreakyLocz14]

There are also LGBTQ/GLBTQ people who are against that movement as well.

 

[Rich Boy Rob]

I'm on the side of the LGBT crowd (I mean I support their movement for equality, not that I am personally gay). The way I see it, your sexuality makes no impact on who you are or what you can do. I do find it a little a sad how many people at my school are or seem to be homophobic.
As for "The devolution of Humanity", well for starters there is no such thing as devolution. Any adaptation is evolution, as you can not reverse evolution. Even if we turned back into single celled organisms that's still not devolution, as clearly it benefited us enough to allow us to overtake the previous "incarnations". Even ignoring that fact, there have been and still are plenty of examples of homosexuality in animals, such as the Gay German Penguins.

 

[Livewire]

I agree..when it comes to the issue of marriage goes, I've recently adapted a, "why does it matter" stance. Heterosexual couples make a joke of marriage anyways, what guarantee do we have that homosexual couples won't? It would also carry the unfortunate and undesirable implication that homosexuals are more capable of love than their heterosexual counterparts. >_>

I dunno, it might just be because I'm the type of person who doesn't get involved in other people's affairs, but I rarely see prejudice against homosexuals in this day and age. Not even the regular church-goers that make up 3/4 of my small network of "friends" seem to be homophobic.

I think Homosexual couples would 'treat' marriage better, because for them it isn't a given right, atm. :/ I'm not saying they're more capable of love than a heterosexual couple, but I do think they'd appreciate the right to marry more, simply because it isn't a right they have currently.

I think it varies where we live. :/ I live in a relatively medium sized, Midwest city, that is staunchly right wing, and I have met several homophobic people here. But, I also have met an equal number of people who aren't.

I myself am not LGBT, but I dislike discrimination in all forms. And I think in this day and age, we'd be a little more tolerant as a people.

 

[WonderGirl]

I guess I accept any sexual orientation, as long as they don't act "inappropriate" towards younger people (as in doing suggestive poses and stuff). Sorry if this isn't clear, I just can't explain it well xD

Oh and most people might not believe me, but...

Spoiler:

I'm hetero! xD

No seriously! All my close friends here on PC would say that I'm bi, but I'm not xD I just like flirting with girls. Sometimes only! Big deal :P xD

 

[Yuoaman]

I definitely support the rights for those of the LGBT persuasion. They literally have no choice in the matter, biology determines this before they are born and no one should suffer because of that. Especially since it literally harms no one.

What I don't support however is the idea of 'Gay Pride' and related things. You can't be proud of something that you did not make a conscious decision to be. You should be proud of accomplishments not for being born gay, having brown hair, or being born in a certain country.

 

[Melody]

It really depends on the size of the city. in "Small town America" the bigotry can get really bad, especially in extremely conservative/right wing communities.

I know I'm from a mid-sized city and they tolerate it to a point. I haven't really encountered anything beyond garden variety homophobia-by-immaturity, but that doesn't mean there aren't bigots there.

Still, I'm quite new to the LGBT community, and I really have not come out publicly, merely because I feel like it's only relevant to the person I love.
I've never felt it too much to avoid mentioning my orientation to those who would be offended by it, but on the same token, I think that they have no excuse to harass people for it either

As for those who cite religious reasons for their bigoted actions:
The bible is not a 'Get out of Hell Free" card. It's not an excuse to act unchristian towards others, in fact Jesus preached that one should "Love thy neighbor". It's perfectly natural, and acceptable to hate the action, hate the sin itself...but if you hate the person or show any anger, disgust or any other negative emotion, how are you any different than a hypocrite? It does say that Jesus really disliked hypocrites in the bible...and for good reason too.

Not trying to offend anybody, the above argument is just a point I'm making against using the bible as an excuse for bigoted actions. Do not be alarmed.

 

[Rogue planet]

It's nothing more than discrimination. Except it's a form of discrimination that's more widely accepted, because so many governments sanctify it. There's really nothing more to say. I could rant for a while about how ridiculous it is, but all the points are fairly obvious.

Seems crazy to think that just 7 years ago, if you engaged in homosexual sexual activity in certain states in America, you'd be branded a criminal.

What consenting adults get up to is absolutely no business of the state whatsoever. I thought modern "civilized" countries were supposed to be better than the Nazis, not copy them. Fortunately most countries have now gotten rid of any laws criminilazing the activity. Except for some countries, unsurprisingly the ones that commit all the other acts that breach human rights as well. The Western world sure took it's time to prove that it's above these sorts of countries though.

As for the marriage issue, I don't see why it's a problem to just let anyone marry. It's the same as branding homosexuals as subhuman, it's just so pointless and arrogant.

 

[poopnoodle]

What I don't support however is the idea of 'Gay Pride' and related things. You can't be proud of something that you did not make a conscious decision to be. You should be proud of accomplishments not for being born gay, having brown hair, or being born in a certain country.

i quite agree with you...i can understand pride for overcoming struggle with bigotry, but i've met a few homosexuals who- despite having always been accepted- carry a certain vibe of arrogance simply because they're homosexual. this superior attitude can only lead to bigotry from both sides, which is the opposite of what we're trying to accomplish.

 

[Melody]

Well, personally I look at "Gay Pride" to be the 'protest' for Gay rights. Now I do agree that throwing parades just because you're gay is really arrogant and pointless, but I also feel that there's just a lot more to it than that, and will always be...because we have to tolerate such bigotry because the policymakers are endorsing it. >_>

 

[Esper]

I think it will be a while before the whole world is ready and accepting. There's a lot of discrimination across the globe. Even with issues such as race and ethnicity, which we like to think we're advanced enough to handle like civilized people (and at least on this forum we do), they are still part of the causes of fighting and tension, moreso in some parts of the world than others. If that's still a problem then how much time is it going to take for the majority or peoples and countries to recognize queer people as equal when there are still places where you can be put in prison for being gay?

What I don't support however is the idea of 'Gay Pride' and related things. You can't be proud of something that you did not make a conscious decision to be. You should be proud of accomplishments not for being born gay, having brown hair, or being born in a certain country.

Like was already said, I see events like these as showing pride in standing against oppression and so on, but even if it were only a "we're gay~ yay for us" kind of celebration that wouldn't really be so bad. People do that often enough anyway. We celebrate our nationalities and that's (mostly) something you're born with. I don't see anything wrong with having pride in something you are as long as you don't try to put down someone else. Everyone should be proud of who they were born.

 

[Timbjerr]

I think Homosexual couples would 'treat' marriage better, because for them it isn't a given right, atm. :/ I'm not saying they're more capable of love than a heterosexual couple, but I do think they'd appreciate the right to marry more, simply because it isn't a right they have currently.

I think it varies where we live. :/ I live in a relatively medium sized, Midwest city, that is staunchly right wing, and I have met several homophobic people here. But, I also have met an equal number of people who aren't.

I myself am not LGBT, but I dislike discrimination in all forms. And I think in this day and age, we'd be a little more tolerant as a people.

I get what you're saying with the appreciation bit. So theoretically, if same-sex marriages are allowed tomorrow then 100 years from now, the divorce rates between both sides will roughly even out because the current generation will have taken same-sex marriage for granted. XD

I'm still of the "either everyone is allowed the full government benefits or no one is allowed them" stance. :P

Ironically, I live in Texas, albeit a large urban metropolitan part of Texas, but still Texas. Stereotypes are bad. XD

 

[SIN1488]

I thought these types of topics weren't allowed? :S

Oh well......

I think that someones sexual orientation is no-ones business except for the person themselves and the people they are attracted to. Though maybe in some cases with some orientations it would be better if other people knew about it, but I'll save that for another thread that probably won't come up on here...... :S

Anyway, as I was saying, I think if someone's sexual orientation really doesn't harm anyone directly, mentally or physically, even if someone else doesn't like it, that nobody should have any say on whether it's right or wrong. What would be wrong about it? The fact that someone thinks it's gross, or is "offended" by it? If it hurts someone just because of the fact that they are offended by seeing or hearing about it, then I would hope those people would move somewhere where they would have no contact with the outside world, as they are obviously seeking things to be offended by. >_<

And homosexuality was once classed as a mental disorder in the DSM, but now it's classed as a real legitimate sexual orientation. And as other different kinds of sexual orientations get the spotlight, they too will be put in the DSM as mental disorders. There are already some like that, though I think they are more of offshoots of heterosexuality and homosexuality, but if that's the case, then why are they listed as mental disorders? Sure, someone that has that orientation could have a miserable life because of it, but in most cases that's not their fault, as they are just trying to live their life normally, but they can't because other people say they are wrong. lol, I'm trying to talk about a sort of controversial topic without actually directly mentioning it, as it would derail this thread. >_<

But basically, if you get my point, cool, and if you know exactly what controversial topic I'm talking about, please don't mention it, just save it for when a topic on it comes up. :P

 

[Percy Thrillington]

Read this thread earlier today and said I'd respond to it later, quoting everyone but I'm too tired/lazy to quote everyone where I think it's necessary so I'll just write out my thoughts, most of which are direct replies to something you've written so if you want to respond, be my guest.

I'm heterosexual and extremely open to any sexual orientation. I blame the internet for this mostly, showing me that members of the lgbt circle are people and nothing more. I seem to be a magnet for my bisexual friends, who've admitted their closeted sexual preference to me for no reason other than needing to know someone didn't care/supported them.

Despite this, I'll be the first to say that I find the concept weird. And this is what people need to understand - if I was hanging out with two gay guys and they started doing things in public without warning like my heterosexual friends do, I'd be a bit freaked out. Because it's not genetically programmed to be accepted in the human brain for heterosexuals. Media and growing up also influences that. The rational side of me says they have the same right as anyone else, the primal part of me says it's as weird as walking in on my sister kissing someone or talking about how I was conceived.

I know I have a lot of friends who feel the same way and they consider themselves homophobic. I don't consider them homophobic. I consider homophobes to be those who secretly hate members of the glbt community or those who'll beat them for who they are. That's not us - we accept that you have urges just as we have urges. Urges we have no control over. I just don't know if we'll ever be able to treat it as normally as wallpaper.

As for the whole religion issue; don't think it would change anything among this generation. Religion is dying over here. My friends mostly consist of agnostics and atheists and even then, anyone who's religious who has common sense knows that the holy book is wrong in some places.

I thought these types of topics weren't allowed? :S

Announcement system - have YOU heard of it?

 

[SIN1488]

Announcement system - have YOU heard of it?

Yes, but I only quickly read that announcement and I thought it said "Sexual and religious topics are not allowed." My bad...... :S

Now I just need to wait for someone to post a pedo topic. :P

But anyways, staying on topic, I don't see what genetics has to do with being weirded out by two guys kissing. I think it just comes from not seeing that happen regularly, unlike other things. Like if you saw a cat randomly do a back-flip, I think you would be just as weirded out as you never see that. Maybe that's just me though...... :S