The Official PokéCommunity Shipping Debates

[Baconkillszombies]

Interesting post, I get most of your sentiments,but I am curious as to why you mention ash taking an interest in May? I'm a bit rusty,especially when a subject about this subject. That said, I haven't looked much into iris and I actually think dawn and ash could work,but she's out of the picture as an up can coming fashion person.

 

[AshPikastar]

why you mention ash taking an interest in May?That said, I haven't looked much into iris and I actually think dawn and ash could work,but she's out of the picture as an up can coming fashion person.

I don't remember most of the episodes of the Hoenn series. I guess I need to re-watch it again. I think one episode that got me to think that Ash had taken a interest in May was Date Expectations. I took in most of the hints on how Ash got worried about May once she started crying when the ferry left. It could either be just a friendship thing or him trying to show that he cares and not to mention him still having that contest badge like how he still has that little doll of Misty that he has on his fishing poll.

I never really thought of Dawn going with Ash. Dawn seemed to be too girly for him and I think they had more fights then Adancedshipping. -doesn't remember much of Pokeshipping so I don't remember how many fights they got into-

 

[gunnerpow7]

Actually, Ash shows interest to all of his female companions. There is also some instances, most likely to happen in movies, that Ash save them from danger. I don't know about you guys but the most prominent hint for me is in Pokemon Ranger and the Temple of Sea. Ash actually risk his own life in saving May, Pikachu and Manaphy from the flooding temple. I know some instances that he risk his own life just to save others from being fallen to a cliff, saving them from falling to tall building, etc. but they can easily get out from that situation but in this example, they are trapped and very hard to get out of the temple.

 

[AshPikastar]

Actually, Ash shows interest to all of his female companions. There is also some instances, most likely to happen in movies, that Ash save them from danger. I don't know about you guys but the most prominent hint for me is in Pokemon Ranger and the Temple of Sea. Ash actually risk his own life in saving May, Pikachu and Manaphy from the flooding temple.

^ This is also true. Ash is a womanizer He does care about all the girls that he travels with. He would risk his life to actually save May even though he would usually do this for his Pokemon as well but I didn't see anything like that for Dawn and Ash. I mainly remember Ash saving Dawn before she fell off but that was it. It wasn't as dramatic as him risking his life for May. Now as for Iris; there hasn't been much of those in there but they'll most likely be something similar in the new Pokemon movie. Better have some Wishfulshipping hints. Misty went to go save Ash during Movie 2000 when Ash was in the water. I don't remember anything else that was dramatic when it comes to what I mentioned before; also how Ash jumped into May to knock her out of the way from Date Expectations is another good example. Another good episode to mention as well, Grass Hysteria when he came in to save May from the grass Pokemon.

 

[Nutella]

No offence, but what's this crap about "SAVIN' PPL MEANS S/HE LURBES HIM/HER?!?!?!"

Saving people from danger isn't canon proof, or even good proof. In fact, it is rare to encounter "canon" proof, especially in something kiddy like Pokemon, where the emphasis is on battles rather than romance. Moving on, friends can choose to save each other from danger, bros. This also applies to saving them from death. Perhaps he does love her, but not in the romantic sense. We won't know.

That's why fan fiction is awesome, 'cos you can pair anybody up together, and it won't be technically OOC unless they're already canonically with somebody else. The real rule is this- as long as you keep each person of the pairing in character, it's not OOC.

Granted, canon reasons aren't needed to ship; that's what fan fiction is all about. However, calling weak "proof" canon "hints" is just plain wrong. I dismiss most pairings, especially when overenthusiastic fans scream tenuous hints are 'canon.' Not what you guys are doing, but it does happen. It's just silly, pals. Enjoy the pairings, but saying ambiguous moments in the anime is proof is irrational.

It wasn't as dramatic as him risking his life for May

The level of drama is irrelevant. Otherwise, how one judges romantic levels will be greatly distorted.

 

[RubyJB88]

That's why fan fiction is awesome, 'cos you can pair anybody up together, and it won't be technically OOC unless they're already canonically with somebody else. The real rule is this- as long as you keep each person of the pairing in character, it's not OOC.

I agree with this last sentence, only problem is, most people don't follow it.

 

[Baconkillszombies]

@Nutella: Most of us can see to a certain extent that any pairing in the anime is slim to none, but dismissing the drama of a moment clearly dismisses the interaction between the two people. How many times does some sacrifice their well being for another person?
Yet I do agree that it can't be used as substantial proof because the only thing that matters is what is explicitly said. Up until this point in time, the only person to even hint towards strong feelings towards ash was misty. IN fact, the person to even have hint at all was misty. >.>

 

[Aquacorde]

Dent's been hinting too, if you watch Best Wishes. :D

 

[Edsbob]

I think we need to delve into where Pokemon comes from if we are saying that saving someone's life is a sign of ulterior affection.

Darn do I love good ol' (or perpetually young) Ash, but he practically epitomises the 'Shounen Hero' that all Japanese youngsters and now lots of international youngsters know from Anime. You look into other anime and there are young men/boys saving the lives of his mates all the time. And usually the slightly troubled friend is a girl. 'Saving the damsel in distress' isn't something Japan has gotten over- you look at all sorts of anime and the guys do that. Oh the strong willed man, courageously saving the girl- we love it. Obviously, most of those men and women aren't in love with each other. In fact, it's a technique story writers use to a) Heighten the thrill of the story and b) to make the audience like the said 'Shounen hero' more.

Ash is a good kid with a kind heart, pretty oblivious to love (and I swear the makers changed his character from early first season to match that, after all that sort of thing is still hot with the Japanese girls) and you see him frequently put his well being on the line in the anime (taking attacks for his pokemon, for instance). He's set to be the guy that treasures his friends and so there's no real difference between taking an attack (small scale) to risking his life (a much larger scale). He has his pokemon that he trusts with him, he trusts that person that he saves and his ability too.
It's a nice story don't you think? I think so, I'm a sucker for that stuff. Not very surprisingly, that's the thing the makers of the anime want.

We can't look at the 'saving her life' situation realistically, it's a fictional story and world with many people with clearly fictional character. Saving people happens often and much easier in the anime than real life. Not only that but once again those characters don't think like we do. They're not real. They won't die. They're cartoon heroes after all.

I don't mind people making shipping fics/manga/art between anyone despite not being a serious shipper myself. I don't mind, in fact I like people using situations which could be used as a plot point in their works. I even don't mind people grasping at things they believe could be evidence for a ship (the Japanese fandom). But I don't like people desperately claiming things from an anime-- which many around the world hate to admit but know is aimed at children more than any other age-- as definite evidence and use it in debates as if it actually proves something (knowing what the Pokemon anime is). I don't even need words for evidence, but there's not many words or body language coming from any one except Brock to the ladies.

Dent's been hinting too, if you watch Best Wishes. :D

Hahaha; "I want to go where you are going Ash" >> Uh-Oh, watch out Ash!

Pairings (like DentxAsh) are fun to look at for me. Fun for me to think "Hahaha, this is a good 'what if' they did like each other" in pairing works based on the anime. But I never take anything as actual evidence, because there isn't anything to support this 'evidence'. I just say 'YES THIS IS GOOD'.

 

[Aquacorde]

Hmm, you're kinda bashing the whole point of our little Shipping Debates corner over here. :< Just saying.

Evidence is evidence, too. Hints are canon, and we pull them from canon to support our theories. Some go more overboard on it than others, but it's the same concept. You can't completely disregard these kinds of things, which is what you seem to be doing.

 

[Edsbob]

Hmm, you're kinda bashing the whole point of our little Shipping Debates corner over here. :< Just saying.

Evidence is evidence, too. Hints are canon, and we pull them from canon to support our theories. Some go more overboard on it than others, but it's the same concept. You can't completely disregard these kinds of things, which is what you seem to be doing.

Sorry if I did that, that wasn't my intention. And I must not have grasped the concept of this thread. I was just really thinking where do we draw the lines between hints and... misconceptions? I find pairings of many sorts to be likable without all of that thought. I think now I get that the people on this thread like all the deep thought and debating it.

Despite how I sounded I don't like bashing other people's hobbies, especially one which I indulge in every now and then (or even more frequently thanks to BW, hahaha) too. I was just explaining my serious view on the evidence on while also hinting that I like the works that come from the 'hints' in the anime.

 

[Frostik]

@Nutella: Most of us can see to a certain extent that any pairing in the anime is slim to none, but dismissing the drama of a moment clearly dismisses the interaction between the two people. How many times does some sacrifice their well being for another person?

Ash is the action hero; if he's not saving people in danger, he's not doing it right. Saving someone isn't a hint, because it's part of his character (or what the target demographic expect of him). 9 out of 10 times it's the girl or a pokémon; seriously, he risks his life for everything, whether he means to or not. And not the chicks, either. Like mentioned, he's saving his pokémon, he's saving other people's pokémon; he's not madly in love with them (Pikashippers/HatThiefshippers/Chikoshippers are allowed to disagree with me).

You going to stand by and do nothing if your friend or some stranger is about to fall over a cliff, and you might have the power to save them? I hope not.

Unless the save in question is characterized as special (*points to May and Drew*), it's run of the mill action and shouldn't be confused for evidence Ash (or any character) is madly in love with another. Because he's going to save his friends always, that bloody masochist.

(Wording for the above is phrased to reflect that James saved Cilan and Ash saved Jessie leik woah and seriously, it won't equal love, but I haven't seen it, so don't know emphatic is was.)

 

[Taemin]

Be that as it may, that doesn't at all mean that fans aren't and shouldn't have fun pairing characters up. Is it canon? Mostly likely not, it's Pokemon. However, in any series (anime or not), romance is something that attracts a huge portion of the fandom, and if that group of fans wants to pair up or find hints for two characters just because they hugged once or twice, then let them. A lot of Pokemon fans enjoy finding romantic hints, or hints of heavy friendship. In an anime that's not ruled by romance, people take what they can get.

Would Ash really confess his undying love for Misty? Probably not, but that doesn't mean people can still wish, or write fanfics, or speculate, if that's what they find to be fun.

 

[Nutella]

@Nutella: Most of us can see to a certain extent that any pairing in the anime is slim to none, but dismissing the drama of a moment clearly dismisses the interaction between the two people. How many times does some sacrifice their well being for another person?

That's not only what I was saying, Bacon. I wasn't dismissing the drama, I was dismissing the fact that the amount of drama does not govern how "shippy" a scene is. Please learn to read thoroughly! What about characters that are naturally calm and unemotive? Just because they don't go "OMG LANA DON'T ****ING DIE ON MEEEEE I WILL SAVE YOU", doesn't make the possibility of their love for them any different.

How many times does some sacrifice their well being for another person?

Not a lot, but friends and family members do this too. What you're basically hinting at is "IF YOU DO THEN IT MUST BE LOVE." That's just silly~ I'm not going to pair you up with your close friend just because you risked your life to save theirs. Doesn't that sound dumb?~

Saving someone isn't a hint, because it's part of his character (or what the target demographic expect of him). 9 out of 10 times it's the girl or a pokémon; seriously, he risks his life for everything, whether he means to or not. And not the chicks, either. Like mentioned, he's saving his pokémon, he's saving other people's pokémon; he's not madly in love with them (Pikashippers/HatThiefshippers/Chikoshippers are allowed to disagree with me).

HOW DARE YOU DISMISS MY FAVOURITE PAIRINGS! PIKA/ASH IS CLEARLY CANON COS HE LIKE SAVED HIS LIFE AND SHIZZ LOLLLOL James and Dento is clearly canon, people. -___- Damn James, always playing hard to get! ♥

Be that as it may, that doesn't at all mean that fans aren't and shouldn't have fun pairing characters up.

I see where you're getting at, but I'm not telling people that they should pair CANON ONLY and not to have fun. It's just stupid to say something is a hint when it isn't.

Evidence is evidence, too. Hints are canon, and we pull them from canon to support our theories. Some go more overboard on it than others, but it's the same concept. You can't completely disregard these kinds of things, which is what you seem to be doing.

I don't want to seem that I'm attacking you, but hints are not canon. Hints are subjective observations from canon. Yes, what people see as hints differ from person to person. However, I won't pretend to deny the stupidity of a "hint." The "ASH SAVED [X]" is especially dumb, because like a few have said, it's in his character.

Also, this is a debate, so people can argue whatever they like as long as it's in topic and strays from name-calling... I think, at least. Some people think a pairing will happen, some don't. Some even think any won't happen at all.

Given that the last statement would holds the most water in regards to Pokemon, I don't see why Edsbob was bashing the point of this thread. I thought the point of this thread was to debate any pairing in general. Given that you can debate whatever pairing you want, why can't one dismiss every single one?

It's okay to like a pairing because [x] happened so [y] loves [z], but it's wrong to think it will canonically happen as a result. Edsbob probably said "evidence" in place of "canon". Because like I said, hints/evidence is an interpretation, not actual canonical fact. There's NOTHING wrong with that; nothing wrong with liking crack pairings and such, but it's irrational (not incorrect) to proclaim a pairing as canon... when it obviously isn't or won't be.

 

[Taemin]

I see where you're getting at, but I'm not telling people that they should pair CANON ONLY and not to have fun. It's just stupid to say something is a hint when it isn't.

I agree that some of the simplest gestures of typical friendship get taken too far sometimes, but like I said, people take what they can get with Pokemon. xD;

 

[Jorah]

And that's why shippers are crazy @~@ They seem to be allowed to have more...poetic license with their theories than any other section of the fandom @~@

I agree with the people saying that Ash doesn't like someone just because he saves them. That's something that's annoyed me when people have just given a random instance that he saves them as evidence with nothing else @~@

 

[Taemin]

I know right. While, I do like AshxMisty okay, it's probably only because she was the original female, so it seems to work better. Though, Ash is protective of all his friends, and he was the same with May, Dawn and Iris that he was with Misty. Doesn't mean he's in love with all of them. Though, that's not to say that I don't understand how finding hints couldn't be amusing. xD Not bashing, just sayin'.

The day that Ash goes to visit Dawn, gives her a rose, and then she blushes, then I'll think otherwise.

 

[ponyboy]

That's not only what I was saying, Bacon. I wasn't dismissing the drama, I was dismissing the fact that the amount of drama does not govern how "shippy" a scene is. Please learn to read thoroughly! What about characters that are naturally calm and unemotive? Just because they don't go "OMG LANA DON'T ****ING DIE ON MEEEEE I WILL SAVE YOU", doesn't make the possibility of their love for them any different.



Not a lot, but friends and family members do this too. What you're basically hinting at is "IF YOU DO THEN IT MUST BE LOVE." That's just silly~ I'm not going to pair you up with your close friend just because you risked your life to save theirs. Doesn't that sound dumb?~



HOW DARE YOU DISMISS MY FAVOURITE PAIRINGS! PIKA/ASH IS CLEARLY CANON COS HE LIKE SAVED HIS LIFE AND SHIZZ LOLLLOL James and Dento is clearly canon, people. -___- Damn James, always playing hard to get! ♥



I see where you're getting at, but I'm not telling people that they should pair CANON ONLY and not to have fun. It's just stupid to say something is a hint when it isn't.



I don't want to seem that I'm attacking you, but hints are not canon. Hints are subjective observations from canon. Yes, what people see as hints differ from person to person. However, I won't pretend to deny the stupidity of a "hint." The "ASH SAVED [X]" is especially dumb, because like a few have said, it's in his character.

Also, this is a debate, so people can argue whatever they like as long as it's in topic and strays from name-calling... I think, at least. Some people think a pairing will happen, some don't. Some even think any won't happen at all.

Given that the last statement would holds the most water in regards to Pokemon, I don't see why Edsbob was bashing the point of this thread. I thought the point of this thread was to debate any pairing in general. Given that you can debate whatever pairing you want, why can't one dismiss every single one?

It's okay to like a pairing because [x] happened so [y] loves [z], but it's wrong to think it will canonically happen as a result. Edsbob probably said "evidence" in place of "canon". Because like I said, hints/evidence is an interpretation, not actual canonical fact. There's NOTHING wrong with that; nothing wrong with liking crack pairings and such, but it's irrational (not incorrect) to proclaim a pairing as canon... when it obviously isn't or won't be.

so true, i love shipping and all but i do agree that most of the moments people call shippy hints aren't actually shippy at all, but i still ship various pairings anyway

 

[Nutella]

I agree with the people saying that Ash doesn't like someone just because he saves them. That's something that's annoyed me when people have just given a random instance that he saves them as evidence with nothing else @~@

I completely empathise... and a lot of the time, they have nothing else. The more obscure the pairing, logically, the more obscure the "hints"... or you could say, tenuous.

I know right. While, I do like AshxMisty okay, it's probably only because she was the original female, so it seems to work better. Though, Ash is protective of all his friends, and he was the same with May, Dawn and Iris that he was with Misty. Doesn't mean he's in love with all of them. Though, that's not to say that I don't understand how finding hints couldn't be amusing. xD Not bashing, just sayin'.

The day that Ash goes to visit Dawn, gives her a rose, and then she blushes, then I'll think otherwise.

Finding hints is amusing for some, but it's definitely not my thing- unless I'm doing research for a fic of sorts. I see your point, but I just couldn't help myself by add that even blushing is questionable too. Ash may like Dawn in this instance, yes, but just because Dawn blushes, doesn't mean she likes him. She could be embarrassed by his gesture.

 

[Matt.K]

Why is Ferriswheel shipping so popular?

Just asking...

But don't you think that an adult dragging a teenager into a Ferris Wheel is kind of creepy, that's if he was there to flirt with the character (like all you FerrisWheel Shippers immediately seem to assume >_> ), you dirty-minded people, you. But just think how much creepier it would be if he did the same thing (remember it is the same) to the male character... And don't forget, if you actually do think that what he did was "romantic", that would also make you support N x (male character); seems 'logical', don't you think? (*cringes*)

Secondly, why is N so popular anyway?