Why are they biased against Kalos?

[The Mega Champion]

I'm not sure where this belongs so I chose here. If it's the wrong area then a mod is free to move it to wherever they think this belongs.

So... a second game for Alola was confirmed today.

Yet there wasn't a second game for Kalos. No Pokemon Z.

Still no explanation given as to why either.

So my question is simple.

Why the hell are they biased against Kalos?

Don't say they aren't because second games for all regions except for Kalos proves otherwise.

 

[Melody]

Because as of the sixth generation; secondary games for the current generation don't happen if a major remake happens.

It's not bias.

The recently announced game only shows that as of 7th generation, it implies that we may not be getting a Generation 4 remake, so instead, we get a Sun/Moon revision.

Nintendo has always refrained from running more than 3 games per generation, as of 6th gen they've reduced it to 2. The two new versions of Sun/Moon only count as one game because they probably reused so much of the existing code from Sun/Moon. Thus 4 half games make two whole games.

Sorry for those of you hoping for a Sinnoh remake. I'm disappointed too, probably won't be until Gen 8.

 

[Lunar]

I don't think they're necessarily biased, they just made a decision to create RS remakes instead of a third game/sequels for Kalos.

 

[Hikamaru]

Melody's logic makes a lot of sense. Game Freak used to do three main series releases per generation from 3rd Gen to 4th Gen, but instead decided to stick to a 3-year lifespan for generations and as a result they decided to cut the three main series releases per generation down to two starting from 5th Gen.

Remember that everyone used to think 5th Gen was going to get remakes of Ruby & Sapphire? Instead we got Black 2 & White 2, with the eventual remakes instead releasing in 6th Gen.

Because of this new formula, a revisit to Kalos was skipped.

Now in 7th Gen, we're essentially in a similar situation to 5th Gen. People expected remakes of Diamond & Pearl, but instead we have another B2/W2-esque pair which is Ultra Sun & Ultra Moon. Going by the fact we'll be in another 3-year lifespan, 2019 is when I expect 8th Gen to start.

So, going by Melody's post, expect 8th Gen to be the generation the D/P remakes happen.

 

[The Mega Champion]

Because as of the sixth generation; secondary games for the current generation don't happen if a major remake happens.

It's not bias.

The recently announced game only shows that as of 7th generation, it implies that we may not be getting a Generation 4 remake, so instead, we get a Sun/Moon revision.

Nintendo has always refrained from running more than 3 games per generation, as of 6th gen they've reduced it to 2. The two new versions of Sun/Moon only count as one game because they probably reused so much of the existing code from Sun/Moon. Thus 4 half games make two whole games.

Sorry for those of you hoping for a Sinnoh remake. I'm disappointed too, probably won't be until Gen 8.

And I'm just supposed to take your word for it?

Do you have something more solid? Like a statement from someone who works on the games? Or something from GameFreak stating that this is the case?

Because if you don't there's little reason for me to believe you.

EVERY region had a second game except Kalos. I can't see how it's anything else except a bias.

I don't think they're necessarily biased, they just made a decision to create RS remakes instead of a third game/sequels for Kalos.

Melody's logic makes a lot of sense. Game Freak used to do three main series releases per generation from 3rd Gen to 4th Gen, but instead decided to stick to a 3-year lifespan for generations and as a result they decided to cut the three main series releases per generation down to two starting from 5th Gen.

Remember that everyone used to think 5th Gen was going to get remakes of Ruby & Sapphire? Instead we got Black 2 & White 2, with the eventual remakes instead releasing in 6th Gen.

Because of this new formula, a revisit to Kalos was skipped.

Now in 7th Gen, we're essentially in a similar situation to 5th Gen. People expected remakes of Diamond & Pearl, but instead we have another B2/W2-esque pair which is Ultra Sun & Ultra Moon. Going by the fact we'll be in another 3-year lifespan, 2019 is when I expect 8th Gen to start.

So, going by Melody's post, expect 8th Gen to be the generation the D/P remakes happen.

See the above response.

 

[Flowerchild]

There are times when I actually suspect Kalos was just a testbench for 3D graphics rather than a serious attempt at a region - would explain why it was so lazy and dull, and why we never saw a third version of it. I certainly hope we never do.

 

[FireSnow]

There isn't a concrete response as to why there is no Pokemon Z. No statement. Nothing. As far as I know. All we can really do is speculate their reasons. Maybe it was a biased thing and you're welcome to believe that. It could also be a new pattern or a testing gen for the 3D graphics as others believe. Just one of those things where this isn't a right or wrong answer at the present time, and there probably never will be.

I wish I could help more than that but there simply isn't an answer that has been made public. So instead, all we can do is speculate and discuss.

I for one agree with Rainbow. XY was gigantic step for Pokemon on handheld devices, so its plausible that they were just making sure it was possible to add everything they did into one game. Since it was, they moved on to the next gen to create more involved games thus why SM was more involved story wise and character development wise than XY.

 

[The Mega Champion]

With no evidence of either of the above I still can't take your word for it sorry.

As far as I'm concerned... you don't break a pattern. You just don't.

So I just can't see it as anything else except a bias.

Besides... Sun/Moon wasn't the greatest Pokemon game. I didn't really like it all that much. The trials were not that great and got old quickly. Gyms were better. Most of the 'new pokemon' weren't the greatest and I barely used/caught any of them. Plus... it was a little too hard. My pokemon were fainting way too much. About the only thing I really liked in it was the story. That was about it really.

I don't see how it deserves a second version and Kalos didn't.

 

[Flowerchild]

0_0 what kind of "evidence" were you hoping for...? this is a discussion thread, we're presenting our opinions. nobody cares about convincing you.

 

[Desert Stream~]

As far as I'm concerned... you don't break a pattern. You just don't.

So I just can't see it as anything else except a bias.

Besides... Sun/Moon wasn't the greatest Pokemon game. I didn't really like it all that much. The trials were not that great and got old quickly. Gyms were better. Most of the 'new pokemon' weren't the greatest and I barely used/caught any of them. Plus... it was a little too hard. My pokemon were fainting way too much. About the only thing I really liked in it was the story. That was about it really.

I don't see how it deserves a second version and Kalos didn't.

"As far as I'm concerned... you don't break a pattern. You just don't."
Sorry, it happens all the time, and you gotta get used to it. Things don't stay the same forever, and companies need to do whatever they think is best for them.

"Besides... Sun/Moon wasn't the greatest Pokemon game. I didn't really like it all that much. The trials were not that great and got old quickly. Gyms were better. Most of the 'new pokemon' weren't the greatest and I barely used/caught any of them. Plus... it was a little too hard. My pokemon were fainting way too much. About the only thing I really liked in it was the story. That was about it really. "
First of all, almost the whole paragraph is an opinion. Just because you don't like something doesn't mean noone does. I could say Black and White weren't the greatest, I found the gyms really gimmicky sometimes, I didn't like many of the pokemon, and my younger self found it extremely hard. Am I sad they got remakes? Not at all. (Also on the hard part most people would disagree with you :P)

"I don't see how it deserves a second version and Kalos didn't."
Sun and moon doesn't deserve another version anymore then kalos does, it's just the way they decided to do things. They never do the third versions in another generation, and since you seem to be one for not breaking patterns, I would think you would be fine with this.

I don't think they're biased, there's nothing wrong with Kalos, it's just the way things turned out. Maybe they simply thought the story was complete, or they ran out of ideas for what they could add.

 

[Flan]

With no evidence of either of the above I still can't take your word for it sorry.

As far as I'm concerned... you don't break a pattern. You just don't.

So I just can't see it as anything else except a bias.

Besides... Sun/Moon wasn't the greatest Pokemon game. I didn't really like it all that much. The trials were not that great and got old quickly. Gyms were better. Most of the 'new pokemon' weren't the greatest and I barely used/caught any of them. Plus... it was a little too hard. My pokemon were fainting way too much. About the only thing I really liked in it was the story. That was about it really.

I don't see how it deserves a second version and Kalos didn't.

Okay, first off, I saw your post on SF as well. I'm going to restate this: not everything predicted will happen, and lots of things that happen aren't predicted at all. GameFreak doesn't owe their fans an explanation.
Plus GameFreak obviously does not care that much for their patterns anymore, since they have been consistently breaking patterns for the past 6 years since the release of B/W. Patterns may be important to you, but that doesn't mean they're important to many other people. You may hold patterns as conclusive proof that a third gen 6 game was coming, and for now, that has been proven wrong. It's okay. No one is actively being hurt by the lack of another gen 6 game. There's other things to look forward to in the franchise.
It's okay to be upset and disappointed, dude, but you need to see that you're not going to get the answers that you're looking for in any discussion forum. No one has insider knowledge. That's just the way life is. Sometimes it sucks; sometimes it doesn't.

 

[Ammako]

I don't know why you are so intent on specifically perceiving the lack of Z/X2Y2 as bias against the region, when in all honesty it doesn't mean anything at all. That's just how they felt like doing things. This will likely be their preferred release pattern from now on.

Third versions weren't selling nearly well enough to really justify the production costs when they could just release new game pairs instead. This is why they stopped after Gen. 4.

They could have made a Grey version for Gen. 5, but they could 1: make a lot more money off making B2/W2 and 2: B2/W2 was miles better than anything Grey would have been (going of the reasonable assumption that Grey = Platinum = Emerald.)

Maybe they could have done the same with X/Y (I wished they'd have), having some kind of plot between Xerneas/Zygarde or Yveltal/Zygarde depending on the game, but the X/Y storyline really didn't leave much space to expand on that without it feeling completely off, and...

(I can guarantee you that Game Freak didn't intentionally design X/Y specifically to make it impossible to go back to.)

... there was Ruby/Sapphire remakes that a lot of people had been wanting for a freaking long time.
Fact: OR/AS sold over 50-60% better than B2/W2 did.
Fact: OR/AS sold over twice as much as Emerald did, and nearly twice as much as Platinum did.

It's not bias against Kalos, unlike what you apparently want to stubbornly believe, it's more like "bias" towards games that have more potential for much better profit. It's really nothing personal against Kalos.

They could make D/P remakes instead of S2/M2, but I got a feeling that 1: people don't have as much nostalgia for Gen. 4 than they did for 1-2-3 and Game Freak likely know this, and 2: I'd like to point out that S/M sold 15.44 million copies already and it's not even been 6 months yet, while X/Y sold 16.11 copies total after -4- years.

X/Y sold 4 million copies worldwide in the first weekend. Sun/Moon sold 10 million in the first week. It's really a no-brainer why they'd cash out on that popularity by making easy sequels rather than putting in extra effort to develop D/P remakes that not as many people would be hyped for, or worse, a Z version that not very many would even care about anymore.

Maybe they'll release a new game that happens in Kalos in a future gen, maybe they won't. Who knows.

(Also, the sooner you accept that patterns are not a thing, the better. I know it's human nature to want to see patterns in everything but I guarantee you they do not mean anything and no patterns actually exist.)

 

[The Mega Champion]

It's obvious this is going nowhere fast.

Nothing all of you say will change my mind on this matter.

The simple fact is that every region/generation had a second game except Kalos.

So either their lazy or biased against Kalos. It's one or the other as far as I'm concerned.

But I'm not going to just quit either. So, just like I did with Sun/Moon, I'll somewhat force myself to buy and play Ultra Sun/Ultra Moon.

 

[Megan]

So either their lazy or biased against Kalos. It's one or the other as far as I'm concerned.

You sure you got all options together? I feel like you've left the most important one out: players not liking the games as much, as GF was hoping. Combine that with ORAS coming out and the fact that people where way more into those and you can easily see why GF were not inclined to go through with another Kalos game (even if they originally planned one).

Instead they just skipped ahead to a new generation, which also happens to get rid of a lot of concepts from previous games, something that may not have worked with a 3rd Kalos game. GF is a company afterall, they try to make money and as soon as they get the impression something may not pay out as expected, they try something else. In that sense Kalos was not profitable.

 

[Flan]

It's obvious this is going nowhere fast.

Nothing all of you say will change my mind on this matter.

The simple fact is that every region/generation had a second game except Kalos.

So either their lazy or biased against Kalos. It's one or the other as far as I'm concerned.

But I'm not going to just quit either. So, just like I did with Sun/Moon, I'll somewhat force myself to buy and play Ultra Sun/Ultra Moon.

Lol bro we're not here to change your mind. No one is here to do that. I'm not sure that's the point of the thread you made--perhaps you were essentially asking if anyone had information. No one has information.

We are not trying to change your mind. Frankly, I'm not sure that most people care to. If you've already decided something, good--that's all fine and dandy. There's no point for this thread then unless you simply want to discuss or vent about the lack of Pokemon Z or whatever the third Kalos game may have been in some alternate universe.

 

[Flowerchild]

It's obvious this is going nowhere fast.

Nothing all of you say will change my mind on this matter.

if you weren't prepared to change your mind, why did you make a thread asking people to change your mind.. :/

anyways, yeah this is going there nowhere fast. please use this thread for discussion. if I see it turn into a silly argument between The Mega Champion and everyone else about whether or not he can be "convinced" then I'm gonna close the thread.

 

[BlazingCobaltX]

It's obvious this is going nowhere fast.

Nothing all of you say will change my mind on this matter.

Then what the hell did you make this thread for?

There are two already stated, possible explanations for there not being a third Kalos game: 1) Gen VI was more of a test run on the 3DS and GF didn't see a way to improve on this except for creating an entirely new, improved game; 2) XY simply didn't sell well and GF saw no use in creating a third Kalos game and extending the life span of Gen VI unnecessarily, so they went for a fresh, new generation.

I pose a third one: due to the 20th anniversary of the franchise, GF wanted to launch a new generation that would be welcoming to both old and new fans. As Alola is filled with Kanto Pokémon, it became a nostalgia trip for people who experienced only Gen I, but at the same time it improved on so many things Gen VI coined that it made current fans excited to see Pokémon use the 3D engine to its fullest.

So yes, GF possibly has a bias against Kalos, but there are reasons for that and they are perfectly sensible from an economic viewpoint. If you're bummed about there not being a Z version, that's perfectly understandable. There were a lot of strands in Gen VI GF just left hanging (arguably because it wasn't that important), but with the above stated points taken into consideration, it makes sense why they moved on to a new Generation without resolving the problems XY had. Unfortunate, yeah, but that's how it is.

 

[Nah]

As has been stated, there is no official statement from Game Freak on why there has not been an additional Kalos game. Nobody here is as far as I know a Game Freak employee who would know why, so all we can do is speculate. There's nothing more to it than that.

While I'm here though:

2) XY simply didn't sell well and GF saw no use in creating a third Kalos game and extending the life span of Gen VI unnecessarily, so they went for a fresh, new generation.

Selling a bit over 16 million copies worldwide since release isn't exactly what I'd call not selling well. Whatever reason(s) there might be for the current lack of another Kalos game, I highly doubt it's that.

 

[Hikamaru]

We will likely never get an official statement on why Kalos never got followed up, but as Nah said X/Y sold what was 16 million units and that's usually a good thing. I guess the real reason why Game Freak decided to skip to 7th Gen after OR/AS was for the 20th anniversary, which also explained why the Alola Forms were for 1st Gen Pokemon only.

They figured launching a new generation in the year of the 20th anniversary would get fans coming back after falling out of favour previously, and that marketing tactic worked as S/M's astronomical sales figures tell us.

 

[pkmin3033]

Comparing the visual design of the sixth gen to the seventh, and considering the timing of Sun/Moon's release coincided with the 20th anniversary of the franchise, it seems obvious to me that Gen VI was a stopgap generation, designed solely to bring Pokemon to the 3DS.

I suspect if they'd had an additional year between the 20th Anniversary and ORAS, we would have seen another game set in Kalos. But they didn't, and the 3DS was capable of higher quality visuals than what XYORAS put out - as SM demonstrated - and re-creating Kalos with those visuals would have been counterproductive...and not really much of a 20th Anniversary commemoration. I think the most likely explanation is that they just didn't have time, and perhaps they felt that they had wrapped up the Mega Evolution plotline in a satisfactory fashion with the Delta Episode.

I find it kinda funny that you would think that Game Freak would be biased against a game that they made that sold over 16 million copies, just because they didn't make a follow-up. That's actually hilarious. Too much salt is bad for your health, y'know.