Feign

Orly? Do they pay well?

It is local or a chain?

I know. :D

Where do you work?

I hate shelving them in the library. They take up a whole shelf that could be used for better things. :(

I know. :(

Well, people like Twilight, too. And that is complete Tauros excrement.

A lot of them probably ran out of ideas or are just trying to make money.

Oh. That's something. xP

All the time. Super-irritating, that.

Because of the amount of them and the similarities?

I tend to stay away from them, but a few I like.

I'm never obvious in that way. It's better to play it safe, if you ask me.

True, true.

Like? :D

Aww. U have odd jobs. :/

Massive! :D But yeah, I am a patient listener so, I don't mind :)

First let me address the main arguments you have against theism. Of course, I am not an advocate of theism itself, but things like fate and hell are common in all abrahamic faiths, and some Aryan ones as well.

1. The paradox of Hell vs. Fate.

I guess your question is: how does it make sense that God (or Allah, as Muslims would call Him) would punish people in Hellfire when He predestined everything? That's like a computer programmer who is angry with his program when it is he himself who made it wrong.

I have not studied Christian theology in that much detail, although I know the basics. But since I am a Muslim let me answer this from a Muslim perspective.

The way I see it, the confusion arises with a flawed understanding of fate, and the role God plays in our lives. The Islaamic Stance regarding this is somewhat like this: God is Omnipotent, so He knows everything. So He does know that who's gonna end up in Hell. But this knowledge of God doesn't have any bearing whatsoever on the decisions men make. Let me illustrate this with the backward historian example. A historian records events after they happen, like for example, after WWII happened, Historians got word of it and recorded it. Their recording of it didn't have any effect whatsoever on the WWII's occurence. Now think about it backwards: God plays the same exact role of a historian, only backwards. He knew and recorded everything prior to their happenings, but His knowledge of it doesn't have any effect on human decisions and free will. To put it bluntly: God does not interfere with what we do in this life. So this resolves the apparent paradox.

There are other ways to answer this as well, such as God being an observer outside time, so time-related terms like present or future does not apply to Him. However there is a bit of difference of opinion on this issue in among the Scholars of Islaam, and I have not looked into it that meticulously, so I will not use this argument. The previous argument, I think, answers it succinctly anyways.

These however beg an obvious question, so let me answer it as well. It may well be asked: If God does actually know everything then why does He make us go through this trial? Why not straightaway place us in heaven or hell?

The answer Islaam provides to it, based on a saying of the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) is, if God put people in heaven or hell without this test of Life, then the inhabitants of hell would complain that the judgment is not fair, and argue that had they been given the chance they would've been righteous. To remove this argument, God actualy demonstrates to us the Justice of His decision with our own Life. So God doesn't "benefit" out of this test we take on earth, but it is done only to leave no room for argument on the part of the sinner.

And if you read the description of Judgment Day in Islaamic Scripture, you will notice something: the sinners on that day do not put a single intellectual objection against any of God's decisions, he only pleads for mercy and appeal to God's benevolent side. So to keep that consistency intact i.e. the Judgment being Crystal clear and not Causing any intellectual doubt, God arranges this test of life for us.

If you have any questions about/objections against my reasoning, do not hesitate to ask. A saying of the Prophet Muhammad (may peace and blessings be upon him): "The cure for ignorance is to question." ^__^

2. The Disbelievers going to Hell.

Islaam agrees with this to a certain extent, and disagrees with this to a certain extent. We as Muslims do not know at all who is bound for hell and who is bound for heaven, with the exception of those who have been mentioned in the scriptures specifically. What we say generally is: In order for people to enter Paradise, they need to have faith in Islaam. But of course, we do not know what is in the hearts of people, so we are not given the right to condemn people to hell. So the statement "All non-Muslims are going to hell" is fundamentally wrong, and so is "all Muslims are going to Heaven". The next paragraph might clarify this issue a bit more.

As for the people who don't know about Islaam, then this rule does not apply to them. The antonym of "Mu'min" (believer) in Arabic is "Kaafir". The word Kaafir refers to someone who covers (like the farmer who covers seeds with dirt), and in the context of Islaam, it refers to people who hide and reject the truth after it has come to them. That it to say, if you do not know about Islaam, and truth has not reached you, or a distorted picture of Islaam was presented to you, then you will not be held accountable in front of God for your deeds on this life. For these people, a test would be arranged on the Day of Judgment, and their fate would be decided on the outcome of that test. I am not making this up by the way, evidence for this is found in the Islaamic scriptures, and I'd be more than happy to drop examples if you ask for them.

As for the question of why disbelievers deserve the punishment of hellfire, the answer can be better understood if one has some basic knowledge as to what Islaam is. Islaam literally means to submit, and the central message of Islaam is to submit to God, as opposed to personal desires or ego. So if someone, in spite of knowing better, refuses to submit to God, not because of any intellectual reasons (We Muslims hold that no intellectual case can be built against Islaam ^__^) but for emotional ones like arrogance, egocentricism or worldly desires, then this is viewed as a punishable offense, and that's where the concept of hellfire comes in.

This is very basic answer which I have presented to you. More than a millenium of Islaamic scholarship is dedicated to this issue in particular!

But to stress on my previous point again, we don't condemn people to hell because we don't know what is in their hearts. God alone knows the conscious and the subconscious, and he knows how evil a person is. So He will give people the punishment they Justly Deserve. You will notice that the arguments from either sides are a bit speculative in nature, and speculative questions do not have objective answers. At the end of the day, we as theists believe that God is Just, and He will deal with everyone Justly, and you will get your question answered on the day of Judgment when God actually reveals the evil people bear in their hearts.

3. On the issue of Homosexuality.

(On a personal note, this issue is a bit perplexing for a South Asian, brought up in otherwise conservative confines, to deal with. This concept is almost absolutely absent in my country, and the only place I come across homosexual people is the internet ^__^ Therefore I would not go into too much detail concerning this topic.)

Before moving on to the topic-specific discussions, let me write a couple of things about the Muslim's view on Divine Legislation.

As pointed out above, Islaam literally means to submit, i.e. this is the religion where we submit to God (or Allah). Now to submit to God means to submit to Him on His terms: to accept his commandments and to obey them without question. So primarily, for the Muslim, Legislative commands of God isn't something we question, rather we hear and obey. This however is not to say that our faith is blind, the following is the reasoning we adopt:

Premise 1. It is established on intellectual basis that Islaam is True and from God.
Premise 2. God is Omnipotent and has knowledge of everything.
Premise 3. God is benevolent, and therefore would only lead humankind to good.
Conclusion. (from 1,2 and 3) The legislative commandments of Islaam would lead mankind to good.

This is the reasoning of the Muslim behind his acceptance of Divine Legislation.

However, this doesn't mean that no reasoning whatsoever is sought for Divine Legislations. Rather we as Muslims believe, while the ultimate reason behind God's plan is known only to Him, we can still detect beneficial reasons as behind them. Quite a few centuries of Islaamic scholarship is dedicated to this issue as well.

With that introduction, let me move on to the topic at hand. We as Muslims believe that this life is a test, and people will get the results of this test on the Day of Judgment, based on which they will enter Paradise or Hellfire. Now the test is not the same for everyone, it afflicts people in varying ways and degrees. The harder the test, the greater the rewards.

In Islaam, having homosexual desires isn't a sin, committing homosexuality is. . Having the feelings is not a sin by itself, acting upon it is. And all people are tested in similar ways, while others might not be tested with having feelings for the same gender, they do have desires for sinful things. For some people it's harder to resist than others, but thats part of the test. This is very briefly the stance Islaam takes towards homosexuality.

As for the whole scientific nature vs. nurture debate, as far as I'm concerned, no characteristic in a man is strictly genetic or strictly environmental, it's a combination of the two. So if the environment is partially responsible for one's homosexual behaviour, this would be taken into account by God an he would judge people accordingly.

And again, at the end of the day, I as a theist put my trust in the infinite wisdom and Justice of God and Divine Legislation.

These are the main objections you raised, and the above are my response.

I wanted to comment on the aspects of deism you brought up, but this post has become massive enough as it is ^__^ Hopefully you can forgive the length.

Cheers
Hassan

EAT IT.
I never have a plan. I just make it up as I go along.

If it is not too much to ask, can you tell me what actually sparked the thought of taking a spiritual journey? Apart from the two reasons you mentioned earlier i.e. being held responsible for something beyond your control and erroneous statements in the scripture?

Also, since you have "chosen" a faith, rather than "being born with" one, can you tell em what do you look for in worldviews? I mean what exactly made you choose the faith you are currently on? In other words still, where is the intellectual security coming from?

Sorry if I sound too old, I like to use sophisticated wording when I discuss religion ^___^

(What did I do up there? I pulled up a chair for you and handed you a mic :-p I like to think I'm a patient listener, its on my mental resume haha. Also I am really into discussions about theology, purpose of everything, stuff like that. Hopefully you share the same passion or at least a fragment of it ^_^)

Cheers
Hassan

I wish you luck, amigo.

I usually read more than watch because it's quiet and portable.