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My Big Problem with the Pokémon Anime - An Essay and a Rant

Let's add a poll to this discussion. What do you think is more likely to happen first?

  • Ash wins the Pokémon League and/or becomes a Pokémon Master

    Votes: 7 31.8%
  • Our generation will pass away entirely

    Votes: 15 68.2%

  • Total voters
    22
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78
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Yes, Ash Ketchum loses. A lot. If his league record is anything to go by, he's not a very good trainer. But he is an underdog. And who doesn't like an underdog? Jerks, that's who.

Ash isn't even an underdog anymore though, he's an experienced trainer. He's like that guy who gets out in the first few rounds of the X-Factor every year but he keeps coming back for some reason.

You should watch the Rocky movies, or Creed (if you haven't already). That's what an underdog story should be. Underdog usually refers to a rookie, a punter, a person or team who doesn't have the talent or experience that others have, but gives it their all. Ash was an underdog. In the first 2 or 3 leagues. He's not really an underdog anymore, because he's had a lot of experience, and he's trained some very powerful pokemon. But I see your point, you'd rather watch Ash than Alain, for example, and I respect that.
 

Twilight-kun

Pokémon World Champion
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At this point, I'm pretty sure Ash doesn't care about being a Pokemon Master and is instead more interested in the people and pokemon he meets along the way.

If you want to see Ash win Leagues, that's what we have fanfics like Ashes of the Past for.

If you still expect Ash to ever win a League after twenty years of failing to do so...you're putting way too much into being a fan of the show.
 
549
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  • Age 36
  • Seen Feb 25, 2018
At this point, I'm pretty sure Ash doesn't care about being a Pokemon Master and is instead more interested in the people and pokemon he meets along the way.
For what it's worth, Ash mentions wanting to be a Pokémon master in the first episode of Sun and Moon.
 
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I don't know, maybe I do put too much into being a fan of the show, but I don't think its a crime to enjoy something. Anyways, the entire premise of the show is Ash trying to be a 'pokemon master'. It's literally the only reason that Ash travels anywhere. You'll have to forgive me for wanting Ash to accomplish his goal.
 

Twilight-kun

Pokémon World Champion
5,456
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  • Seen Jul 27, 2023
I don't know, maybe I do put too much into being a fan of the show, but I don't think its a crime to enjoy something. Anyways, the entire premise of the show is Ash trying to be a 'pokemon master'. It's literally the only reason that Ash travels anywhere. You'll have to forgive me for wanting Ash to accomplish his goal.
Funny thing is, if Ash thinks winning a League is how you become a Pokémon Master, there shouldn't be anything stopping him from doing so, then wanting to win every League in every region to keep the series going
 
549
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  • Age 36
  • Seen Feb 25, 2018
He does that for every series
Yes I know, but you said it doesn't seem like he cares about being a Pokémon master anymore. I think in real life he probably wouldn't be looking to become one so much at this point because he would know at this point it's nothing more than a distant reality, but for plot purposes he still has to have that goal.
 
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Funny thing is, if Ash thinks winning a League is how you become a Pokémon Master, there shouldn't be anything stopping him from doing so, then wanting to win every League in every region to keep the series going

I completely agree with you. It's sloppy writing. Either they haven't conveyed what Ash's true goals and beliefs are, or they're literally just coming up with reasons for Ash to not win a league, e.g. Tobias. Either way, sloppy writing.
 

Cool_Porygon

Lurking in the shadows
773
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The theme for the show is that Ash wants to be 'the very best'. That goal is open to interpretation but Ash sees it as trying to win a league, then going to the next region and entering that league. A pretty much continuous cycle.
 
549
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  • Age 36
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If they had him go for the same league each time that would be pretty pointless and they wouldn't be able to introduce new region specific Pokémon. They could have him return to try again for another league title (it would especially make sense for the Indigo League since if not for Team Rocket and using his disobedient Charizard he just might've gone all the way), but it wouldn't make sense to have him try for the same league in consecutive series.
 
78
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If they had him go for the same league each time that would be pretty pointless and they wouldn't be able to introduce new region specific Pok?mon. They could have him return to try again for another league title (it would especially make sense for the Indigo League since if not for Team Rocket and using his disobedient Charizard he just might've gone all the way), but it wouldn't make sense to have him try for the same league in consecutive series.

Yeah it would be interesting to see Ash challenge the old leagues again, but the writers haven't really explained how the leagues work. For example:
Does Ash have to collect all 8 badges again? I would think not, but who knows?
How often do the leagues take place? I thought it was an annual thing, but I don't think its ever been explained.

But imo, if Ash could just go and challenge the first league again for example, and use all his best pokemon, surely he'd have a very good chance of winning. At least I hope so.
It would be interesting if they spent a season or more having Ash revisit the old regions, entering the old leagues, and seeing his old companions. I don't think it would ever happen though.
 
50,218
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Yes I know, but you said it doesn't seem like he cares about being a Pokémon master anymore. I think in real life he probably wouldn't be looking to become one so much at this point because he would know at this point it's nothing more than a distant reality, but for plot purposes he still has to have that goal.

That reminds me, in the episodes of Sun & Moon that have aired so far, I haven't heard anything about Ash saying if he's still aiming to be a Pokemon master. I know Sun & Moon changed the anime formula so drastically (because it wants to compete with Yo-Kai Watch) but going to the point where the concept of being a Pokemon Master is all but forgotten feels like giving the middle finger to those who grew up with hearing the term.

No wonder why I thought Ash had amnesia when he went to Alola...
 

Frozocrone

Fighting a bigger fight
1,472
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9
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That reminds me, in the episodes of Sun & Moon that have aired so far, I haven't heard anything about Ash saying if he's still aiming to be a Pokemon master. I know Sun & Moon changed the anime formula so drastically (because it wants to compete with Yo-Kai Watch) but going to the point where the concept of being a Pokemon Master is all but forgotten feels like giving the middle finger to those who grew up with hearing the term.

No wonder why I thought Ash had amnesia when he went to Alola...

Spoiler:
 
50,218
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Okay, at least it's still being acknowledged. But considering the huge focus on the target audience these days, I feel we won't hear much of the Pokemon Master term as much as we used to.
 
78
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But considering the huge focus on the target audience these days, I feel we won't hear much of the Pokemon Master term as much as we used to.

What target audience are you referring to? Japanese kids I'm assuming? I guess at this point the show really is just trying to compete with other popular shows in Japan, and catering to that target group. But oh well, (completely irrelevant) I think I might start watching Naruto this week considering that the show just wrapped up and I used to watch it as a kid.
 
50,218
Posts
13
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What target audience are you referring to? Japanese kids I'm assuming? I guess at this point the show really is just trying to compete with other popular shows in Japan, and catering to that target group. But oh well, (completely irrelevant) I think I might start watching Naruto this week considering that the show just wrapped up and I used to watch it as a kid.

Yeah I was talking about Japanese audiences. And like you said, the reason behind the format changing was to compete with other shows that appeal to the age group, with the main contender being Yo-Kai Watch since the new art style resembles that series as well as Rotom Dex clearly being an expy of Whisper.
 
549
Posts
7
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  • Age 36
  • Seen Feb 25, 2018
In the first episode of the dub that aired on Disney XD back in December Ash does reference wanting to be a Pokémon master. So that goal will still be present I guess, although Aloha certainly doesn't appear to be the place to work towards it.
 

Meadow

[span="font-family: Handlee; font-size: 15px; font
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Okay, at least it's still being acknowledged. But considering the huge focus on the target audience these days, I feel we won't hear much of the Pokemon Master term as much as we used to.

We'll still at least get to hear those words near the beginning of every (subbed) episode when Ash introduces himself in the opening, if that counts for anything. xD

...That is, until they either replace the opening or remove the narration sequence, aha.
 
2,688
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19
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I saw this a while back, and figured I'd give my two cents, even if it is over a year old.

Pretty much agreed with you on all those points (though I personally wouldn't consider AG all that good, even ignoring Misty's removal, though it certainly didn't help its reputation. In fact, Ash staying the same rank is exactly why I thought his Hoenn excursion was pointless. Even if he didn't use his reserves unlike in Johto, if he doesn't advance in rank, he never actually improved).

In fact, of the main cast members, probably the only ones who got a raw deal besides Ash regarding their goals (or to-be-a-goal in one case) is Misty and Max. The former is because her sisters pretty much forced her out of her dream of becoming a Water Pok?mon Master by becoming a Gym Leader so they could go on a cruise, and thanks in large part to the appalling depiction of Gym Leaders in AG, and to a certain extent DP and BW, it creates the unwanted implication that Misty's going to become a punching bag and grow weaker as a result. Thankfully, the Kanto reunion arc for SM fixed this a bit by showing Misty to be virtually unbeatable with her Mega Gyarados, but still... And Max... honestly, the show's insistence that Ash not age at all pretty much screwed over any chance of Max ever becoming an actual legal trainer. Say what you will about the other traveling companions and their failed goals, at least they either were actually allowed to pursue their goals with implied strides (May, Dawn, Iris, Dent) or otherwise changed their goals of their own free will (Brock, Clemont, Serena to a certain extent). Heck, in Tracey's case, one can make the case that, if meeting Professor Oak was his life-long goal, he actually succeeded in that goal when he left the series.

And yes, Ash's constantly getting screwed over in regards to his goal is just disgusting (it also doesn't help that, since he technically WON an actual Pok?mon League in the form of the Orange Islands, not to mention in DP at least, there was an additional requirement for him to challenge the regional Elite 4 and Champion, which essentially meant that even IF Ash won the league, he still has a ways to go before he can formally become a Pok?mon Master, such screw overs were completely unnecessary). XY, even though it does feature a rank up, shows the absolute worst of the status quo elements of the show, especially when unlike with, say, the Sinnoh League, which can be excused with their literally procrastinating until the last minute to make any headway before Gen V was announced, they already had revealed there won't be any Gyms in Alola for Sun and Moon, meaning the whole "let's have Ash lose so he'd do the next region" was completely pointless knowing he'd literally have nothing to do. And they don't even have the decency to at least give him a consolation prize of actually helping the League committee form a Pok?mon League in Alola, oh no, he basically gets stuck as a student in a stupid school show, despite it being indicated as early as School of Hard Knocks in Kanto that Ash didn't even NEED school to be a good trainer, and we don't get any hints that he'll continue his goal until the Kanto reunion arc (one of the few good elements of Sun and Moon) where they revealed there WILL be an Alola league in the future. You know how horrible it had to be for Misty to be forced to give up her goal due to outside forces beyond her control? We have to see that with Ash literally every episode.

At this rate, I don't even CARE how it's done as long as Ash wins a stupid league already. He could win it cheaply and I'd accept it, that's how desperate I am for Ash to just win a league already, especially when the Kalos League already proved that inherent logical problems for even marketing the show and games by having Ash lose will not stop them from having Ash lose again, even when, like in DP, they strongly imply that Ash will win this time around.

Heck, going by the ratings, it's driving away even Japanese kids.
 
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  • Age 37
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Gonna let the people know that I will be responding to various posts shortly. Know that I have not forgotten this thread. I still stand by my words, and my hate for the anime remains as strong as ever.
 
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