Does Nintendo Put Pressure on ROM Hackers?

Obviously, with so many hacks and "hackers" gathered in one place, it has become rather difficult to keep bringing fresh ideas to the table with our ROM Hacks. But does anyone think that Game Freak, the ones who actually make the games, are putting pressure on us as well?

Mostly I'm thinking about how many people have implemented Generation IV and V elements into the engines of FireRed and Ruby Version. Does anyone else feel that, without progressing past Generations I-III, we ROM "hackers" can still keep up with Game Freak's innovative ideas as they continue on through the Generations of Pokémon?

A penny for your thoughts?

Wow, never thought of it that way, but no

I don't believe that many people in game freak are aware with our existance as hackers.

I beleive the tale of time has taken its toll, as the years go by, nintendo comes up with more advance platforms, therefore Gamefreak will need to deliver and implement more advance 'stuff', I mean the tide of change is an on going process and Game freak will continue to put in more and more stuff in future genaration games.

heck if Pokemon does survive the test of time I assure you in the next 20 years we might even have hologram base battles, thats almost like real life stuff :P People will be carrying Pokeballs in their pocket and start battling people randomly on the streets.. Wow.


As for hacking pass gen 3 games give it a bit more time id say 2013 is a safe bet, thats when tools for rom hacking gen 4&5 will be as stable as gen 3 games.

maybe even before 2013, some people ARE already hacking gen 4 games.


So maybe gamefreak is pressured by nintendo to put out more extravagant features in their game hmm..


but everyone has their opinion, this is just mine.

We might feel somewhat behind the new generations, but, if you've played both Diamond/Pearl and Black/White, it's quite obvious that they're running on very similar (if not the same) engines. Basically, what this means is that if we can hack one, we can get pretty close to hacking the other. Take a look at the "DS Map Graphics editor"; it has some level of 5th gen support before it's even been released. Also note the "DS" part. It's a "DS" tool, much like the "Advance" tools. Same system, same capabilities.

What I'm trying to say is that we're not actually far behind. Gen 5, in terms of technology, is more like Gen 4.5. It's on the same console, on a similar engine. In fact, I'd daresay the difference between it and the previous games (HeartGold/Soulsilver) is no greater than that between Fire Red and Emerald.

TLDR; Gamefreak hasn't taken a really big step in terms of engine and capability (like that between gen 2 and 3 or gen 3 and 4) for a number of years.

Who knows maybe in the near future someone can hack Advance generation game's like B&W

masterquestmq said:

Wow, never thought of it that way, but no

I don't believe that many people in game freak are aware with our existance as hackers..

Click to expand...

They've known more than ten years already :P

Back to the topic, I seriously believe we won't be able to hack newer games than the ones that are released already. We should be able to find a way to change the trainer data and stuff like that but the rest would be left unknown, at least for a little while.

You see, I don't know the size of the fifth gen games but the ones for fourth, are already 128MB ! It's hardly possible to figure out how games like that work - in other words, rom hackers won't be able to locate the data for editing stuff they wanted.

I've myself felt like changing the game I hack many times but have never even considered it being of the following three systems. For the ones that are size of 4MB or less, are much more hackable if you work yourself.

N64 / PlayStation / Nintendo DS

miksy91 said:

You see, I don't know the size of the fifth gen games but the ones for fourth, are already 128MB ! It's hardly possible to figure out how games like that work - in other words, rom hackers won't be able to locate the data for editing stuff they wanted.

Click to expand...

Um, what? It's easier than ever to locate data in 4th Gen games. They all use the DS file system, and they're all labeled too (except some files in HG/SS. You don't have to go grave digging with a hex editor like in Gen III.

(oh, and D/P is 64mb, Plat & HG/SS are 128mb, and B/W is 256mb)

What do you mean about file system ?
The rom (file) can separated into subfiles ?

Here's the thing, Nintendo will indeed attempt to sue anyone or any company that creates Emulators to play their games, or any distrubution of a ROM. However... I'm not sure about the games that are not being made anymore. Because what would be the point in trying to prevent people getting hold of ROMs of games that are not being sold in stores anymore? xD Because games that are not being sold anymore... are redundant and phased out.

miksy91 said:

What do you mean about file system ?
The rom (file) can separated into subfiles ?

Click to expand...

The Nintendo DS file system... has made it so much easier for us ROM Hackers to actually edit the ROMs. All we just need... is DSBuff to extract it, and then we start the research... and see what we can do to edit the files.

However... I'm not exactly sure what previous generation handhelds hold inside their ROM, and who knows what file types are inside it? It might not be supported by folders, but every ROM has other types of files inside it.

miksy91 said:

What do you mean about file system ?
The rom (file) can separated into subfiles ?

Click to expand...

The rom is already separated into folders and files. They're even labeled too, with names like, "map_data.narc". Many tools reassemble the files into a new rom, so there's no point in keeping track of the offsets that you find because they change completely every time you work on your rom. Also you don't have to worry about free space and repointing things.

Well, that sure makes things a lot easier.
All you gotta do is to figure out how the data in the subfiles are stored and edit them instead of the rom as a whole.

Ninja Caterpie said:

We might feel somewhat behind the new generations, but, if you've played both Diamond/Pearl and Black/White, it's quite obvious that they're running on very similar (if not the same) engines. Basically, what this means is that if we can hack one, we can get pretty close to hacking the other. Take a look at the "DS Map Graphics editor"; it has some level of 5th gen support before it's even been released. Also note the "DS" part. It's a "DS" tool, much like the "Advance" tools. Same system, same capabilities.

What I'm trying to say is that we're not actually far behind. Gen 5, in terms of technology, is more like Gen 4.5. It's on the same console, on a similar engine. In fact, I'd daresay the difference between it and the previous games (HeartGold/Soulsilver) is no greater than that between Fire Red and Emerald.

TLDR; Gamefreak hasn't taken a really big step in terms of engine and capability (like that between gen 2 and 3 or gen 3 and 4) for a number of years.

Click to expand...

I've rom hacked Gen IV before, just takes a bit longer because of the graphic structure and in gen V, there are so many misleads... took me 3 hours to view a changed TREE.

And no, I have seen some concepts for BW copied from some ROM Hacks actually :D

Anythings possible, but I believe as time goes on creating hack tools will become much harder.

As far as I have learned throughout the ROM hacking scene, Nintendo doesn't really care unless if ROMs are being distributed. However, since we are operating throughout a system of patches, it's perfectly legal. Besides, Nintendo has absolutely nothing to gain by shutting down a small community that does not distribute the actual game. They only have things to gain by shutting down ROM/ISO distributing websites.

In other words, Nintendo wouldn't nor shouldn't care, as long as we do not distribute ROMs.

Retneprac Yelyah said:

As far as I have learned throughout the ROM hacking scene, Nintendo doesn't really care unless if ROMs are being distributed. However, since we are operating throughout a system of patches, it's perfectly legal. Besides, Nintendo has absolutely nothing to gain by shutting down a small community that does not distribute the actual game. They only have things to gain by shutting down ROM/ISO distributing websites.

In other words, Nintendo wouldn't nor shouldn't care, as long as we do not distribute ROMs.

Click to expand...

Um...ok? Not exactly what I was talking about, but your opinion (fact :P) is noted.

To everyone else, I've been intrigued by your responses. This has been a semi-eye opener to how people feel about the pressures of ROM Hacking, and who is applying said pressure.

My own opinion is this: If it can be done on a Generation III ROM base, it will be done (eventually). Things that Game Freak has implemented into future generations are constantly popping up in people's hacks (Running indoors, Honey Trees, Day/Night, and the Mart Recognition Program, just to name a few) and I believe that ROM "Hackers" will continue to bring new ideas to the older Generations for a long time...at least until ROM Hacking advances to Generation IV and beyond, that is.

I'd say no - that's the beauty of a hack.

A hack can be anything you want. Adding Gen IV+ elements is only one trait. With hacks, you have to work hard to please the public. That's why I like it's only for Gen III-, it gives us the ability to improve it further, on a different track than gamefreak.

~Mayan