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[Sword & Shield] Gyms confirmed to return!

59
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5
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    • Seen May 14, 2022
    I'm suprprised to see so many happy about this.
    Trials are gyms, but there's more of them (including a dark type) and the badges do more than just 'permission to use cut'. Trial captains, while not as important storywise as gen 5's, have way more developed personalities than your average gym leader (Ilima, Sophocles, Nanu). The two on one totem battles, while not all were equal, were usually more challenging as well (Mimikyu, Wishiwashi, *LURANTIS*).
    Trials didn't replace gyms; they revolutionized the concept and brought it to new heights.
     
    1,743
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    6
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    • Age 23
    • She/Her
    • Canada
    • Seen Apr 15, 2024
    I'm thrilled! Trials were unmemorable to me and I recall virtually none of the trial captains or the trials themselves. I can honestly say that I remember the generation 6 gym leaders better, which is saying something because with the exception of Korrina, none of them had any involvement in the plot whatsoever.
     
    2,777
    Posts
    17
    Years
    • Age 31
    • USA
    • Seen Mar 30, 2024
    I'm suprprised to see so many happy about this.
    Trials are gyms, but there's more of them (including a dark type) and the badges do more than just 'permission to use cut'. Trial captains, while not as important storywise as gen 5's, have way more developed personalities than your average gym leader (Ilima, Sophocles, Nanu). The two on one totem battles, while not all were equal, were usually more challenging as well (Mimikyu, Wishiwashi, *LURANTIS*).
    Trials didn't replace gyms; they revolutionized the concept and brought it to new heights.

    Grand Kahuna battles are just battles without a trial or puzzle attached. In that way, they are absolutely weaker than Gyms that actually come with their own location and puzzle with Trainers. You can count them as Trials if you want, but I feel they're distinct enough that most people don't consider them Trials--rather, they're more like fighting weaker versions of the Elite Four throughout the game so you can rechallenge their stronger teams at the summit of the Pokémon League. As such, SM actually have less Trials than Gyms of past--there's a Fairy Captain with no Trial, and a Dragon Trial with no Captain, which felt very unfinished and unpolished! Totem battles were okay, but it shows just how difficult it is to balance the series's battle system with that focus on Types--you literally need inherent stat-boosts and 2-on-1 disadvantaged battles to pose any sort of challenge, and even then most of them ended up quite easy if you, as always, had the right Type advantage. Challenge in Gym battles can be improved by including a new gimmick, inherent stat-boosts, or even like the above idea, not making Gyms focus on a single Type (but only after we get our Dark-type Gym, please!).

    I don't remember exactly what the Trial pieces allowed you to do than "just 'permission to use Cut.'" All that comes to mind is once you completed certain Trials, the guides would remove those ugly roadblocks so you could explore more. But roadblocks break immersion and most people seem to dislike their overabundance. On the other hand, gen 5 badges only affect the level that traded Pokémon obey you at--you can use HMs whenever you receive them, which is really fun because if you explore around you can get HM Waterfall quite early and gain access to lots of fun little areas as early as around the 5th Gym! While I hope they take a more Let's Go-inspired approach to their HMs this time around, it shows that even HMs don't have to be tied to Badges.

    Trials were certainly an attempt to breathe new life into the concept of Gyms, but in the end were nothing more than Gyms with a tropical coat of paint. Anything that could be considered an improvement from the Trial system can be easily incorporated back into the Gym system, which is why I see no reason to worry over their return.
     
    8,973
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    19
    Years
  • I find it interesting that some in this thread paint Trials as failed Gyms, when Gyms were never really good at being mini-bosses to begin with, from an analytical standpoint.

    In every single game bar Black and White (I don't think B2W2 did the same but my memory may be off, here), there's been an issue in my eyes of Gym Leaders being nothing but static checkpoints. They have barely any personality, they don't really do anything important, they don't.... help the player much with anything aside from giving them their badge, an associated TM, and the player goes on their merry way.

    Granted, it's not like Trials did that much an effort to breathe life into the Trial Captains and Island Kahunas, but what they had going for them was that some of them were, at the very least, more than checkpoints and they had personalities to them. To see Hala, for example, go from someone you meet from the beginning of the same to Elite Four member is symbolic in a sense (Kahili excluded here); it's to say that he's been with you the entire journey and he's there at the end of the journey when you become Champion. It certainly says a lot more than Elite Four members of past games that, for the most part, had zero visibility and zero presence throughout the entire game.

    The one thing that I hope these games do is to do something similar. Have Gym Leaders be more memorable by perhaps having them challenge you as Elite Four members. If that's not an option, then have them do something else rather than be a sitting goalpost all day. For all the criticisms that can be said of Trials (and don't misunderstand me -- Trials can improve), the Trial Captains and the characters were far more dynamic than Gym Leaders of the past.

    Also, in regards to Gym Puzzles....

    Gym puzzles are interesting and all, but they're a one-and-done affair. Perhaps this is just me, but most gym puzzles aren't really memorable to me. I get through them just to get through them to face the gym leader and that's all I really saw them as. I don't really have so much investment in gym puzzles because I don't foresee myself returning to gyms after I beat the gym leader, so there's no real reason to do so. I'd much rather have investment in the gym leaders as fleshed out characters than anything else.

    002c
     
    Last edited:
    2,777
    Posts
    17
    Years
    • Age 31
    • USA
    • Seen Mar 30, 2024
    The biggest advantage Trials had over Gyms was that some of the areas had wild Pokémon so you had a reason to go back. But this can easily be applied to Gyms. Maybe the Grass Gym we saw has a berry field where you can grow berries. If they make another restaurant-themed Gym, that could be the location of this gen's battle buffet. If they have another fashion model Leader like Elesa or Valerie, they could sell exclusive clothing there and maybe even include a fashion show mini-game. They could do something like Lenora where you go to her Gym to restore your fossils because it's part of the museum. Imagine if there was a double-battle Gym with the Day Care couple: defeating them could unlock the Day Care, and maybe you can access the outside area to interact with the Pokémon you leave and find some wild Pokémon, too. The possibilities are endless!
     
    59
    Posts
    5
    Years
    • Seen May 14, 2022
    Grand Kahuna battles are just battles without a trial or puzzle attached. In that way, they are absolutely weaker than Gyms that actually come with their own location and puzzle with Trainers. You can count them as Trials if you want, but I feel they're distinct enough that most people don't consider them Trials--rather, they're more like fighting weaker versions of the Elite Four throughout the game so you can rechallenge their stronger teams at the summit of the Pokémon League. As such, SM actually have less Trials than Gyms of past--there's a Fairy Captain with no Trial, and a Dragon Trial with no Captain, which felt very unfinished and unpolished! Totem battles were okay, but it shows just how difficult it is to balance the series's battle system with that focus on Types--you literally need inherent stat-boosts and 2-on-1 disadvantaged battles to pose any sort of challenge, and even then most of them ended up quite easy if you, as always, had the right Type advantage. Challenge in Gym battles can be improved by including a new gimmick, inherent stat-boosts, or even like the above idea, not making Gyms focus on a single Type (but only after we get our Dark-type Gym, please!).

    I don't remember exactly what the Trial pieces allowed you to do than "just 'permission to use Cut.'" All that comes to mind is once you completed certain Trials, the guides would remove those ugly roadblocks so you could explore more. But roadblocks break immersion and most people seem to dislike their overabundance. On the other hand, gen 5 badges only affect the level that traded Pokémon obey you at--you can use HMs whenever you receive them, which is really fun because if you explore around you can get HM Waterfall quite early and gain access to lots of fun little areas as early as around the 5th Gym! While I hope they take a more Let's Go-inspired approach to their HMs this time around, it shows that even HMs don't have to be tied to Badges.

    Trials were certainly an attempt to breathe new life into the concept of Gyms, but in the end were nothing more than Gyms with a tropical coat of paint. Anything that could be considered an improvement from the Trial system can be easily incorporated back into the Gym system, which is why I see no reason to worry over their return.

    What are "Trial pieces"? I was referring to Z-crystals. They are effectively gym badges that have an effect in battle. I'm not particularly fond of Z-moves, but they're way better than gym badges. Especially bug, psychic, and flying. Those are real tangible rewards for exploring and being thorough, instead of consumable items you can buy with less effort.
     
    2,777
    Posts
    17
    Years
    • Age 31
    • USA
    • Seen Mar 30, 2024
    What are "Trial pieces"? I was referring to Z-crystals. They are effectively gym badges that have an effect in battle. I'm not particularly fond of Z-moves, but they're way better than gym badges. Especially bug, psychic, and flying. Those are real tangible rewards for exploring and being thorough, instead of consumable items you can buy with less effort.

    Ohh I thought you meant the actual... Trial equivalent of badges, I had forgotten the name. They go on your little charm.

    Z-Crystals are a cool alternative but some are obtained randomly across the region and as such aren't much different from how you get a TM after defeating a Gym Leader. Again, Gyms can easily offer an extra reward in addition to the Badge and TM if practicality is a concern--they may even be part of our source of Z-Crystals in Sword/Shield as I doubt they'd remove the mechanic altogether.
     
    247
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    7
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    • Seen Jan 22, 2023
    I believe that Gyms will still specialize in types. I don't think that they will be changed drastically.
     
    8,973
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    19
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  • Did we really move away from gyms?
    Trials were basically gyms imo.

    In general function I suppose, but otherwise they were different in form and execution. You don't participate in arguably fun mini-games as part of a Gym challenge, for example, so there's that. The fact that Totem Pokemon were part of the Island Challenge is actually a more welcome (imo) concept than simply battling the Captains alone as one would normally expect.
     
    247
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    7
    Years
    • Seen Jan 22, 2023
    Did we really move away from gyms?
    Trials were basically gyms imo.

    Well, somewhat. The trial tasks were essentially the gym puzzles and instead of fighting a trainer at the end you would fight a powered up wild Pokemon. The gyms might get changed this generation.
     
    338
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    5
    Years
  • 1st Gym Leader - Steel
    2nd Gym Leader - Fire
    3nd Gym Leader - Rock
    4nd Gym Leader - Water
    5nd Gym Leader - Psychic
    6nd GYM Leader - Dark
    7nd Gym Leader - Ghost
    8nd Gym Leader - Grass

    For Elite Four, it would be this:
    1st Elite Four - Ground
    2nd Elite Four - Poison
    3nd Elite Four - Flying
    4nd Elite Four - Dragon

    Champion - Fairy-type Male Specializer
     
    247
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    7
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    • Seen Jan 22, 2023
    1st Gym Leader - Steel
    2nd Gym Leader - Fire
    3nd Gym Leader - Rock
    4nd Gym Leader - Water
    5nd Gym Leader - Psychic
    6nd GYM Leader - Dark
    7nd Gym Leader - Ghost
    8nd Gym Leader - Grass

    For Elite Four, it would be this:
    1st Elite Four - Ground
    2nd Elite Four - Poison
    3nd Elite Four - Flying
    4nd Elite Four - Dragon

    Champion - Fairy-type Male Specializer

    While we are most likely getting a Grass-type gym, I don't think that it would be that late.
     
    247
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    7
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    • Seen Jan 22, 2023
    Bumping this thread because quite a few Gym Leaders have been revealed since someone last posted here.
     
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