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Anyways, new topic perhaps? I just recently saw someone side an interesting card in a deck profile, and that was Magic Cylinder. That's a bit specific I guess so I guess I can broaden it (though I'd still like to hear all your thoughts on Cylinder lol): What is your opinion on alternative deck strategies and cards, i.e. burn, Reversal Quiz, Exodia? They're often looked down on as cheap, autopilot, take no skill, etc., whereas I'm sitting here thinking I could probably be winning more duels with 3 Cylinder or maybe playing something like Exodia Library.
Magic Cylinder? I only have one thing to say about that: LOL!
No, seriously. The reason I find it so funny is because I myself have been wanting to run Magic Cylinder all this time, haha. (You see, I was sorting out my binder the other day, and I stumbled across a copy of that card which my friend gave me, so I really wanted to incorporate it somehow.)
I think Magic Cylinder isn't a bad choice because it says "screw you" to anything that can be targeted and affected by card effects. *looks at Beelze, Midrash, and Nephilim*
In fact, the burn damage brings you one step closer to victory, which is why I prefer to use Volcasaurus over Adreus, despite the latter being more versatile. Also, people tend to run Cowboy just to piss off the opponent with that 800 damage, haha.
What is your opinion on alternative deck strategies and cards, i.e. burn, Reversal Quiz, Exodia?
I never really looked at them as "cheap," but I was a never a big fan of Exodia decks. I mean, the opponent doesn't even lose the match; it's just that the other player simply claims their own victory. The opponent would usually just sit there watching the Exodia user play solitaire with themselves and clap at the end, which is pretty boring (and that's also the reason why I never use my Quasar deck against another human player, unless they actually ask to fight against it).
As for burn decks, I'd say they're pretty creative, but they're also severely limited due to the banlist. I think you're better off throwing in burn effects as a surprise (*cough*Volcasaurus*cough*) rather than building a deck around effect damage itself.
I guess the Cowboy situation is comparable to Cylinder, never really thought of that. The thing about that though is the salt levels. Your opponent isn't going to be too mad when they're about to lose anyways and get Cowboyed. You get Cylindered 2-3 times a game though and you're gonna be pretty salty.
And yeah I guess Exodia is a little more autopilot/different than stall or burn, but you're right that they're creative. I was actually trying a Ghostrick Dorklord alt win deck which was pretty fun. Really inconsistent though.
On a separate note, if anyone keeps up with the TCG market, Lavalval Chain just skyrocketed from like $25 to like $80-$100. Paying that much for one card is absolutely ridiculous. It's becoming quite apparent why people stick to the Anime or to online dueling lol.
I guess the Cowboy situation is comparable to Cylinder, never really thought of that. The thing about that though is the salt levels. Your opponent isn't going to be too mad when they're about to lose anyways and get Cowboyed. You get Cylindered 2-3 times a game though and you're gonna be pretty salty.
And yeah I guess Exodia is a little more autopilot/different than stall or burn, but you're right that they're creative. I was actually trying a Ghostrick Dorklord alt win deck which was pretty fun. Really inconsistent though.
On a separate note, if anyone keeps up with the TCG market, Lavalval Chain just skyrocketed from like $25 to like $80-$100. Paying that much for one card is absolutely ridiculous. It's becoming quite apparent why people stick to the Anime or to online dueling lol.
Ah, never really thought about salt levels, haha. I just assumed that losing to burn damage would piss them off, period (especially if they a chance to turn things around), but I never imagined until now how annoying it would be if you got Cylinder'd 2-3 times. xD (Glad I don't run Red Nova.dek anymore O_O)
Sounds fun. To add to that, I actually have a "Quillbolt Loop" deck, which uses Cannon Soldier, Junk Synchron, and Imperial Iron Wall to infinitely send Quillbolt Hedgehog to the graveyard, dealing 800 damage for each one. Too bad it lacks major consistency, haha.
Wut... Screw my life. I was waiting for Lavalval's price to go down, because the lowest one I've ever seen was about $20, and I thought THAT was relatively expensive... *cries* Now I'm starting to think that I should grab 3 copies Number 101 before it's too late. O_O (Then again, I have a feeling that 101's price will actually decrease, but I suck at making predictions like those.)
Username: Cayo
Favorite Card: I'm a big dragon deck fan so I'll have to say Red Eyes Darkness Metal Dragon! It's just a really fun card to use and you can do quite a bit with it.
Topic: These decks tend to be hard to run but if they work against a bad opponent they're really fun to use. I've tried a few different burn decks, some being decent and others epically failing. I've made a few exodia decks and even beat some decent opponents in ds games. It's harder now that they have a lot of restrictions on those extra draw cards.
Note: I've never played the game in real life, just the video games.
Ah, never really thought about salt levels, haha. I just assumed that losing to burn damage would piss them off, period (especially if they a chance to turn things around), but I never imagined until now how annoying it would be if you got Cylinder'd 2-3 times. xD (Glad I don't run Red Nova.dek anymore O_O)
Sounds fun. To add to that, I actually have a "Quillbolt Loop" deck, which uses Cannon Soldier, Junk Synchron, and Imperial Iron Wall to infinitely send Quillbolt Hedgehog to the graveyard, dealing 800 damage for each one. Too bad it lacks major consistency, haha.
Wut... Screw my life. I was waiting for Lavalval's price to go down, because the lowest one I've ever seen was about $20, and I thought THAT was relatively expensive... *cries* Now I'm starting to think that I should grab 3 copies Number 101 before it's too late. O_O (Then again, I have a feeling that 101's price will actually decrease, but I suck at making predictions like those.)
Next time I can fit it in I'm gonna run Cylinder. Especially against like Qli where they burn a lot of their own life points, Cylinder could win games. I've just always been confused as to why it's never played. Obviously yugioh players don't shy away from rubbing salt into the wounds of their enemies, but it's really not that bad of a card imo.
And the Quilbolt Loop sounds interesting, but yeah all the fun decks have no consistency, which is why they're fun and not meta lol.
Ok, Lavalval's price is heading back down haha. $50-$60 still a 100% increase from what it was at though. And 101 is getting a reprint in Return of the Bling, so it might decrease. Also everyone's jumped ship to Castel.
Username: Cayo
Favorite Card: I'm a big dragon deck fan so I'll have to say Red Eyes Darkness Metal Dragon! It's just a really fun card to use and you can do quite a bit with it.
Topic: These decks tend to be hard to run but if they work against a bad opponent they're really fun to use. I've tried a few different burn decks, some being decent and others epically failing. I've made a few exodia decks and even beat some decent opponents in ds games. It's harder now that they have a lot of restrictions on those extra draw cards.
Note: I've never played the game in real life, just the video games.
And man I loved the DS games. I think I played World Championship '07-'09, and those were some of my fondest memories haha. Thing about building decks like Exodia was it was so hard to assemble all the cards. I remember opening like 100 packs just for one Mirror Force, forget trying to find all of Exodia lol.
Next time I can fit it in I'm gonna run Cylinder. Especially against like Qli where they burn a lot of their own life points, Cylinder could win games. I've just always been confused as to why it's never played. Obviously yugioh players don't shy away from rubbing salt into the wounds of their enemies, but it's really not that bad of a card imo.
And the Quilbolt Loop sounds interesting, but yeah all the fun decks have no consistency, which is why they're fun and not meta lol.
Ok, Lavalval's price is heading back down haha. $50-$60 still a 100% increase from what it was at though. And 101 is getting a reprint in Return of the Bling, so it might decrease. Also everyone's jumped ship to Castel.
Oh my gosh, thank GOODNESS that Qliphorts are still affected by spells/traps. O_O But yeah, if you can't fight them back, then you might as well just burn 'em to death, haha. At the moment, I think the only viable counters to Magic Cylinder (other than trap negation/stun) are Leo and Lance, which are both relatively uncommon these days (Leo because he's mostly a toolbox option rather than a boss monster, and Lance because it was powercrept into becoming optional side deck filler).
Yeah... it's unfortunate, but I wish fun decks could get more consistency even if they had to exchange it for power. My Shark deck is probably one of the more consistent fun decks out there, but its power is pretty underwhelming due to the 15-card Extra Deck limit (as well as Konami's hate for Sharks, but I'd rather NOT rant about that, haha). But at least that sense of consistency is what makes it fun to use. =/
That's still pretty insane, lol. I'm glad most people are converting to Castel, because I wanna stick with 101 since it was one of my favorite cards before it even existed (blame the show for that, haha).
Also, Return of the Bling... I'm seriously never getting over that name, LOL.
Username: Cayo
Favorite Card: I'm a big dragon deck fan so I'll have to say Red Eyes Darkness Metal Dragon! It's just a really fun card to use and you can do quite a bit with it.
Topic: These decks tend to be hard to run but if they work against a bad opponent they're really fun to use. I've tried a few different burn decks, some being decent and others epically failing. I've made a few exodia decks and even beat some decent opponents in ds games. It's harder now that they have a lot of restrictions on those extra draw cards.
Note: I've never played the game in real life, just the video games.
Red Eyes Darkness M.D. is pretty epic, as it is easy to summon and can generate plenty of versatile Xyz monsters. Chaos Dragon decks almost never miss out on M.D, haha.
Leo literally goes in every deck of mine. Lance is pretty good too against like BA because of Wing Blast and Karma Cut, but besides that, I've found traps, let alone targetting ones are kinda declining this format. But with stuff like Qli that can take you out in one turn, you feel kinda defenseless without traps.
And I had a fun Rank 9 Fish deck, and when making it, found out there are a lot of Fish/Sharks I'd never heard of. But in the end, consistency trumps fun lol, the great debate of what to play.
I shelled out $20 for SHArk, and yeah although it's a bit more situational, I prefer it to Castel. It's just whenever I bring it out, something always goes wrong haha.
And on the topic of Darkness Metal Dragon, that thing has screwed me far too much for my liking haha.
Leo literally goes in every deck of mine. Lance is pretty good too against like BA because of Wing Blast and Karma Cut, but besides that, I've found traps, let alone targetting ones are kinda declining this format. But with stuff like Qli that can take you out in one turn, you feel kinda defenseless without traps.
And I had a fun Rank 9 Fish deck, and when making it, found out there are a lot of Fish/Sharks I'd never heard of. But in the end, consistency trumps fun lol, the great debate of what to play.
I shelled out $20 for SHArk, and yeah although it's a bit more situational, I prefer it to Castel. It's just whenever I bring it out, something always goes wrong haha.
And on the topic of Darkness Metal Dragon, that thing has screwed me far too much for my liking haha.
Yeah, I put Leo in all of my (Synchro-capable) decks as well, but level 10s don't really pop up that often for me, haha. As for Lance, it is a good card indeed, but nowadays it leaves much to be desired, although I still side it in some decks.
...Rank 9 Fish is a thing? Lol, I should be ashamed for not being aware of that, haha. [/long-time Coelacanth user]
Honestly, adding on to what you said, I think consistency also trumps power in terms of better card design... and lower salt levels LOL. That's pretty much the reason why I don't mind Red Eyes M.D., compared to, say, Judgment Dragon, BLS, or Exciton. xD
What is your opinion on alternative deck strategies and cards, i.e. burn, Reversal Quiz, Exodia?
While participating in duels in real life with these kind of strategies, I don't believe I have ever managed to pull off any wins, unfortunately. In-game, however, things seemed to have been slightly less complex, in a way, and due to that, I've been able to pull off a few victories every now and again with Exodia. When utilizing, I tended to have a lot of drawing cards on my deck (Pot of Greed, Graceful Charity, and so forth), so that I would be able to get a hold of Exodia pieces faster and whatnot; thankfully, the idea didn't seemed to have been so bad.
Okay, this has been on my mind for quite some time now, so I might as well let it out:
What do you think about the new "First Turn, No Draw" rule? In your opinion, should the player who goes first be able to draw on their first turn?
For those of you who haven't been in the Yu-Gi-Oh scene for a while, Konami recently changed the rules so that the person who takes the first turn can't draw on the first turn of the duel. However, the person who goes second CAN draw on their first turn. I've been wanting to hear what people think about this: is it a bit too unfair of a disadvantage, or is it perfectly balanced?
When it comes to this new rule, I find it a bit more unfair for the person that goes first in a duel. This is because it is added on top of the rule that they cannot attack during the first turn of the duel. I think the only way this new rule would be fair is if both players in the duel can not draw their first turn.
In fact, Zexal fans were hit considerably harder due to the fact that Zexal ended with a cliffhanger, as well as the fact that it had the least number of episodes.
I dunno if I'd really call it a cliffhanger. It didn't really feel like they were trying to leave the viewer on edge for the next adventure so much as they were trying to show that "Yuma and gang still have adventures left to go on!" and tie up loose ends.
Though I do feel that Yuma got the shaft in terms of that whole "not even most Zexal fans liked him" thing, considering he was a lot less cringeworthy (and quite likable) in the original. I generally don't push for JP vs dub in things, especially considering Yu-Gi-Oh is predominately watched dubbed in the West (by far), but I'll never understand why they chose to make Yuma the way he is in the dub. I've mentioned it before, so it's a shame how a chara-
Eh...well, I guess it doesn't matter. I need to remain on topic.
---
Regarding the rule, I've thought about it quite a bit, but it does give the first player something of a disadvantage. While "First Turn Draw" is advantageous in its own way and does create a greater chance to counter the second player, it also leads to a greater chance at defending themself (first player) as they can't attack and the second player can. Now, the second player can build up an offense (and, really, a defense) and deal quite a bit of damage to the first player. Second turn XYZ/Synchro has never been so lethal.
That said, neither way really lets you have your cake and eat it too. As someone will always have the first strike, someone will always have an advantage- it's difficult to make a turn-based game truly equal in terms of advantage. Even if you pushed attack privileges back to the second round of turns, someone will always have the advantage over the other.
I dunno if I'd really call it a cliffhanger. It didn't really feel like they were trying to leave the viewer on edge for the next adventure so much as they were trying to show that "Yuma and gang still have adventures left to go on!" and tie up loose ends.
Though I do feel that Yuma got the shaft in terms of that whole "not even most Zexal fans liked him" thing, considering he was a lot less cringeworthy (and quite likable) in the original. I generally don't push for JP vs dub in things, especially considering Yu-Gi-Oh is predominately watched dubbed in the West (by far), but I'll never understand why they chose to make Yuma the way he is in the dub. I've mentioned it before, so it's a shame how a chara-
Eh...well, I guess it doesn't matter. I need to remain on topic.
WAIT, STAY! I never thought I'd see the day where I could finally have a proper discussion about Zexal, haha. (Because, you know... most people just watch the first two episodes of the dub and permanently ragequit the show. <_<)
Anyways, the reason I see it as a cliffhanger is because of how YGO traditionally gives a few episodes at the end of each series for all/most of the important characters to wrap up their own goals and pursue their dreams (this was especially noticeable in GX and 5D's). However, in Zexal's case, the plot literally kept accelerating until the very end, without ever having a chance to cool down, much less give the characters (other than Yuma and Astral) their own proper endings. Also, the new movie was announced before Zexal ended, so it's only natural for Zexal fans to be utterly disappointed that the movie is about DM, rather than the post-final battle of Zexal. At least ARC-V is heavily implied to be a crossover series, so I guess there still might be some "Hope" left. /lame pun
Regarding Yuma, I completely understand what you're saying, and I do in fact agree with you. However, I don't think "shaft" is the correct term in this case, as the writers gave Yuma all of the proper treatment that he needed. I think the word you're looking for is "underrated." Yuma is a legitimately good character, but most fans/viewers don't give him enough credit due to their personal biases against him, and they only acknowledge his flaws rather than his character development. I used to hate Yuma during part 1 of Zexal, but by the time the Barian Onslaught Arc rolled around, I suddenly noticed that I had stopped hating him, and then I realized how much that he changed throughout the series. Also, with Yuya's horrendous dueling in ARC-V, I actually started to appreciate that Yuma at least had a functional deck. xD
About subs vs dubs, I'm almost exactly the same; I generally have respect for dubs and won't push subs on others. However, I feel there should be a limit on how generous your tolerance level towards a dub can be, and Zexal's dub exceeds that limit by a light-year. To be honest, Zexal's dub is just unforgivably bad; I'd even go far enough to call it a disgrace. The dubbers went out of their way to make sure that every single character was derailed into a walking talking moron, especially Yuma and Shark. (How they managed to make Dub!Shark a 200% different character than Original!Shark is beyond me. O_o) And as if that wasn't enough, they even watered down the plot to remove anything that was even remotely sad, touching, or meaningful, and they replaced the original soundtrack with cheap stock music. It's a shame really, and it's too bad that most western YGO fans tend to stick with dubs, meaning that they will only know Zexal for how bad it is in the dub, without knowing how the show was originally supposed to be. I dunno, I'm just rambling now, haha.
Also, regarding that post you linked, I believe I was the one who hit the like button on that post a couple months back (before I got my name change), haha.
Why do I say this? Well, not only is Konami keeping heavy tabs on the power of Synchros, but take a look at these two cards:
Spoiler:
In case they're too hard to read, this is what they're saying:
Shaddoll Fusion
Fusion Summon 1 "Shaddoll" Fusion Monster from your Extra Deck, using monsters from your hand or your side of the field as Fusion Materials. If your opponent controls a monster(s) that was Special Summoned from the Extra Deck, you can also use monsters in your Deck as Fusion Material. You can only activate 1 "Shaddoll Fusion" per turn.
El Shaddoll Construct
1 "Shaddoll" monster + 1 LIGHT monster
Must first be Fusion Summoned. If this card is Special Summoned: You can send 1 "Shaddoll" card from your Deck to the Graveyard. At the start of the Damage Step, if this card battles a Special Summoned monster: Destroy that monster. If this card is sent to the Graveyard: You can target 1 "Shaddoll" Spell/Trap Card in your Graveyard; add it to your hand.
These cards will basically murder you if you run Synchros or certain Ranks of Xyz, but um... I'd rather not get into how complex the metagame is right now, because it's pretty messy to say the least.
I didn't like the new Draw Rule at first, but I at least thought it was pretty fair. Nowadays though with OTKs running rampant, I've been penalized quite severely for going first. If you simply Set a monster, even a backrow or two, you're always in danger. I think we should test the old rule of 6 cards for everybody and see how it fares, but really it depends on the format and what kind of decks are being played.
Username: countryemo Favorite Card: Hmm.. A classic Dark Magician or Magic Cylinder for me.
As for the burn / effect damage, I built a deck running around Sparks, and cards like that. It didn't win me very much, and now have removed sparks and am working for more consistancy / drawing.
As for the first turn no draw, it kinda makes sense, but as said you can never really balance out the advantage. Maybe both players can't attack their respective first turns to go along with it? I hate when people can really pull off big plays the first/second turn, I'm more of a slow player and hate the current fast meta.
Haha, Yu-Gi-Oh is defiantly a game that people can get a big advantage almost kinda unfairly.
I just learned of Dimension Wall, its like a Cylender, but somewhat worse I guess, but if your a fan, you can run 6 Cylenders pretty much, thats one way to win..
And along the Cylinder line, Warriors even get their own in Battleguard Howling, which even returns a monster to the hand (though doesn't work for direct attacks).
But yeah I think you'll find that a lot of people hear like non-meta decks. I don't think I've ever listed them, but the decks I've actually played at locals are: Raccoon, Harpies, Vampire/Zombie, Cloudian, and Melodious, all which are really fun imo. I also have Rock Stun assembled though, that one's not as enjoyable lol. And I'm looking forward to the Spiritual Beasts coming out, I think I'm going to be playing that for a while.
Yeah, I don't really like the meta that much. I like Dark Magician, Morphtronics (Not Synchro or Equip though), and Fluffals the most, with some E Heroes, Karakrui, and Gagaga on the side. Also working on a Deskbot deck, and have a trap monster deck. Only have DM, somewhat Gagaga (starterdeck, well part of it), Morphtronics, and a Fluffal core, and some OG hero cards in real life. I mainly use YGOPro against my brother, sometimes random others. Used to with friends irl back in Highschool.
I like the look of spiritual beast, but I can not figure out their plays, another reason I stay with more simple decks.
Yeah, I don't really like the meta that much. I like Dark Magician, Morphtronics (Not Synchro or Equip though), and Fluffals the most, with some E Heroes, Karakrui, and Gagaga on the side. Also working on a Deskbot deck, and have a trap monster deck. Only have DM, somewhat Gagaga (starterdeck, well part of it), Morphtronics, and a Fluffal core, and some OG hero cards in real life. I mainly use YGOPro against my brother, sometimes random others. Used to with friends irl back in Highschool.
I like the look of spiritual beast, but I can not figure out their plays, another reason I stay with more simple decks.
Nice! I really like the concept of Morphtronics, but it's a shame that we can't normal summon them in defense mode. =/ However, I did make a Power-Tool Dragon deck that runs off a Junk Synchron engine, haha.
As for my main decks, I'm currently running Blackwings, Sharks, Synchrons, and Karakuris. *casually notices that you also use Karakuris* xD
Oh, and I'm trying to learn how to use Scraps, but they're really difficult to get the hang of.
Also... YES! Another YGOPro user! *cheers* (Now we need at least one more person for that seemingly unreachable tournament. O_O)
