New Zealand mosque shootings

Her said:

We don't have the death penalty here and we will not change that. New Zealand has abandoned many of its supposed core values over the last three decades, but our belief in the inhumane nature of capital punishment is not one of them. That is what these terrorists want - bargained for in their planning, in fact. They can hang themselves in prison for all I care for their wellbeing, but we're supposed to be better than them and we won't let desires for vengeance give them the satisfaction they crave.

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From what I heard, he wants to be heard. He wants a trial where he can declare his belief it was self defense. I'd rather not let him have that chance. At the very least, life, no parole, no visitors, no outside communication where he gets infamy by publishing memoirs or whatever.

gimmepie said:

This is not a Trump/American politics is and I do not want to see another unnecessary Dem vs Republican debate spring up. This is not the American Politics session, not everything has to be about Trump. Focus on the issue at hand and stay on topic. I don't want to say it again.

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This so much. I wanted to dislike Maedar's second post for this reason, but PC doesn't offer that option.

Regardless of whatever comes out of this or for whatever reason it was caused in the first place, it's never a good thing to commit mass murder. I don't see any difference between something like this and someone deciding just to go to a place with a lot of people and just randomly take people out. There are some sick, twisted people out there that think nothing of others but themselves.

I hope everyone affected either physically or mentally by this shooting is doing ok...life can always turn on its head quickly for the worst. It makes me appreciate what I do have.

I am incredibly saddened and heartbroken that such a horrific event has taken place. Especially in a place of worship, a place that is supposed to be safe. As a Christian, my heart goes out to my Muslim brothers and sisters and I stand in solidarity alongside them, as people of faith we must stand together and support one another. As a human, I am completely and utterly devastated and I fail to understand how a human being can possess so much hatred and vexation. My thoughts and prayers are with those who have been impacted by this catastrophe. We must do better.

Some are starting to say that everything this guy did was meant to generate publicity and manipulate the media.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/new-z...t-tried-to-trick-the-world-in-manifesto-video

LDSman said:

From what I heard, he wants to be heard. He wants a trial where he can declare his belief it was self defense. I'd rather not let him have that chance. At the very least, life, no parole, no visitors, no outside communication where he gets infamy by publishing memoirs or whatever.

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He'd have to go through a trial in order to get the death penalty or life in prison (or any sentence), so the thing to do here would be to not publicize the trial itself in addition to the no parole+no visitors+no outside communication bit.

I wouldn't be surprised if publicity was an aim of the guy, people who commit these sorts of attacks often do so with the intent to, at least in part, generate publicity for their "cause" and spread their "message" to the world outside of their usual circles.

LDSman said:

I find it interesting that there are claims the shooter states he used guns because the media would give him more publicity and so that gun control groups in the US would try to ban guns and cause civil unrest.

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That was definitely one of his motives if he wrote this in earnest.

--image redacted--

Not denying that he could be a far right-wing nutjob on top of that though. Either way it's a shame because the media and others will be more than happily to play into his hand. The fact that he cited pewdiepie and Candace Owens of all people as negative influences on him makes me wonder just how much of his manifesto we should take seriously.

Outlier said:

That was definitely one of his motives if he wrote this in earnest.

--image redacted--

Not denying that he could be a far right-wing nutjob on top of that though. Either way it's a shame because the media and others will be more than happily to play into his hand. The fact that he cited pewdiepie and Candace Owens of all people as negative influences on him makes me wonder just how much of his manifesto we should take seriously.

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He's definitely a nut job. Hated the 1% and supported environmentalism, liked China's government.

Guy was all over the political map. Perfect fodder for media to feed on. Side A plays up their selected info and Side B plays up their selected info. Instead he just needs to be run through a super quick trial and executed/tossed in prison to never be seen again without being given the chance to make his statements.

Oh yeah, one other thing. Would probably be for the best to not directly link to or post part or all of the shooter's manifesto and/or video, so please don't do that. It's probably easy enough for people to find either one if they want anyway.

Nah said:

Oh yeah, one other thing. Would probably be for the best to not directly link to or post part or all of the shooter's manifesto and/or video, so please don't do that. It's probably easy enough for people to find either one if they want anyway.

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I get not wanting to share the video or manifest but it does make it harder to discuss the topic.

Already seeing some lies or at the least, distortions of the facts about this situation.

People stating he bought his guns online and therefore the online loophole needs to be closed.

He bought 4 of his guns through a New Zealand police approved mail order system.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-newzealand-shootout-gunshop-idUSKCN1QZ058
No word yet on where he bought the one used in the video.

People calling him right wing when most of his stated beliefs are left wing.
https://crimeresearch.org/2019/03/n...OyS5w_ZlwwlHU4rIkM8AlLghcQDghwj_7i5nLgkOmfWmc

Frankly, I think the guy had bad brain meats.

NZ did set up an online form where you could register to surrender rifles. Trolls crashed the servers and they had to turn it off.

And I don't get how you can be willing to disarm even further when it took police 39 minutes to respond.

LDSman said:

but it does make it harder to discuss the topic.

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not really, when it's still not terribly difficult to find the manifesto online

LDSman said:

People calling him right wing when most of his stated beliefs are left wing.
https://crimeresearch.org/2019/03/n...OyS5w_ZlwwlHU4rIkM8AlLghcQDghwj_7i5nLgkOmfWmc

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The article makes the claim that the shooter was a left-wing guy but then goes to disprove its own claim by listing a number of non-left wing things. He apparently describes himself as a fascist (and identifies with a guy who started a UK fascist group), an ideology that is commonly described as right-wing. The primary motivation for the shooting, white supremacism, is and has always been a (far) right-wing idea. Most everything else listed in the article--his dislike of global capitalism, his partial support of Donald Trump, his support of worker's rights (or however you want to phrase that part)-- is more linked to his white supremacism than anything leftist. His supposed desire for gun control is also not so much him actually being leftist and actually wanting it, it sounds more like he just wants to start shit and wants to watch a literal battle between pro-gun and anti-gun people.

Regardless, arguing whether he's a leftist or a right-winger isn't really important to dealing with the underlying problem(s) imo and is just people trying to use this to make their side of political spectrum look better than the other, i.e. some people are using a mass murder event for political gain.