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Most unnecessary competitive nerfs

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    Sometimes Game Freak realizes how ridiculously centralizing/overpowered a mechanic is and nerfs it considerably. While the developers certainly don't cater to standard Smogon formats like OU, it's clear that they have considered more official formats (previously link battles, Nintendo Cup, Festa, etc.; currently Wi-Fi battles, VGC, etc.) in their deliberations. These of course also trickle down to Smogon formats. Some of these seem to correct what I would assume were programming errors (e.g., Hyper Beam mechanics change after gen 1 or sleep talking Rest no longer healing to full after gen 2). Others were obviously intentional but seemed a bit more sensible like the nerf to damage multipliers in terrain. Some, however, seem totally unnecessary. I've included some of these below. Let me know if any others come to mind!

    • Dark Void being reduced to 50% accuracy (esp. since Smeargle can no longer use it)
    • Gale Wings only working at 100%
    • Indirect - Stealth Rock for Fire/Bug/Flying/Ice types - what an atrociously horrible mechanic
    • Destiny Bond nerf
    • Explosion/Self-Destruct nerf (esp. before Misty Explosion got a chance to use the mechanic!)
    • Soul Dew nerf
     
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    The only nerf I recall that I consider unnecessary is weight based moves not affecting Dynamaxed Pokémon. Weight based moves were never OP, they should have at least kept the same damage if they didn't want to make them too powerful.

    I'm fine with all the other nerfs that came out in Gen 7 and 8, they were made for a logical reason and make sense to me. It's good to see them rebalancing stuff that people start abusing because it's too broken.
     
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  • I don't know if I agree with Gale Wings being an unnecessary nerf. The way it originally worked in Gen 6 was absolutely obnoxious. Granted, I'm not sure if this was the way to fix it, but priority Brave Bird/Acrobatic was just stupid.
     

    RadEmpoleon

    Empress of Randomness
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  • Dark Void. I do think it was a good nerf that only Darkrai can use it (since Smeargle used to abuse it in doubles), but why did they ALSO have to knock the accuracy down to 50%? Darkrai needs a pair of glasses to land its signature move, or the slightly higher 60% accurate move Hypnosis. That's hot garbage.

    Can I bring up something that I think should be nerfed? Power Herb shouldn't work on Geomancy.
     
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  • I agree with the Galewings nerf being on here. The only thing that made Talonflame viable and could be countered with Stealth Rocks anyway because one Brave Bird and Talonflame would be toast. It isn't a common ability anyway so to take away the one thing that made Talonflame usable when there are far more abused abilities out there felt very unwarranted.
     
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  • For the ones I do agree with (agree with GF nerfing them),

    Gale Wings - Gale Wings did deserve a nerf but, I do think the nerf was too harsh. Being able to fire off priority Brave Birds/Acrobatics was dumb enough but, top it off with priority Roost made it even more obnoxious (especially bulky Talonflame sets that use Bulk Up + priority Roost to stay alive)
    Destiny Bond - Honestly it should've worked like Protect from the get go. Being able to just spam Destiny Bond with no repercussions just adds an unnecessary mind game that can't really be extorted is absurd.
    Parental Bond - Made Mega Kangaskhan absurdly broken lol, things like Power-Up Punch and priority with Fake Out/Sucker Punch being boosted even more with Parental Bond. IIRC some Mega Kangaskhans even ran Bite in VGC just to have double the chance to inflict flinch too
    Hidden Power - Hidden Power is dumb, I'd like my Ground-types to not be so scared of the Pokemon that they are meant to counter please

    As for the nerfs I don't agree with,

    Soul Dew - I don't remember Lati@s ever being dominant in any of the Gen6 Battle Spot Single / VGC to ever warranted this nerf. I know Lati@s were good in BSS but they certainly weren't top tier compared to the likes of Mega Gengar, Aegislash, and Mega Kangaskhan, and they were incredibly niche in VGC (and then straight up unviable once Ubers were introduced into the format in 2016 with all the Xerneas running around). So this nerf really came out of nowhere coming into Gen7
    Dark Void - Nerfing it to 50% accuracy was so random considering Darkrai was never allowed in any of the TPC held tournaments with its mythical status. It was dominant on Smeargle and should've been removed from it but, idk why they needed to take it a step further and nerf it on a Pokemon that's not even allowed into competitive play (though maybe they were looking out for the more casual players).
    Gengar - Mega Gengar was absurdly strong but, that mainly came from Shadow Tag being a very busted ability, especially in the doubles format of VGC where lead matchups and positioning are everything. Getting rid of Levitate made not much sense considering Levitate didn't really have a role in how busted Gengar since it always Mega Evolved and never utilized it after the first turn?
    Return/Frustration - Besides Mega Kangaskhan which isn't even in SwSh and maybe Snorlax which was very very niche, Normal-types have never really been dominant in competitive. Sooo of all the moves to axe, why'd they need to get rid the best Normal-type move for physical Normal-types that aren't even that dominant in the first place.
     
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  • I agree with the Galewings nerf being on here. The only thing that made Talonflame viable and could be countered with Stealth Rocks anyway because one Brave Bird and Talonflame would be toast. It isn't a common ability anyway so to take away the one thing that made Talonflame usable when there are far more abused abilities out there felt very unwarranted.

    The Stealth Rock issue is easily enough dealt with through priority Roost and good team support with Rapid Spin/Defog. Throw in a Wish mon too if you really want. Meanwhile, a base 120 or 110 power priority move is absolutely busted and a 4x rock does not justify that. Nothing justifies that.
     
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  • My opinions on the nerves cited here:

    Gale Wings nerf : somewhat disagree
    You shouldn't forget that Talonflame was just Over Used.
    And don't forget that it had a very high speed; Gales Wings only had influence against opposing priorities or an opponent who greatly increased his speed (Choice Scarf).
    Fortunaly, on Gen 7, Z-Moves gave him a chance to hit hard and fast once.
    And on Gen 8, the Heavy Duty Boots protect it (until the arrival of a Knock Off) against the most famous Entry Hazard that demolish it.

    In summary, the nerf of its ability made it completely unusable (just one damage is enough for it to be disabled), so he's only played with Flame Body. When no one plays it anymore, the nerf has been too violent. I would have been a partisan of the happy medium with a loss of talent at 20 or 50% HP.


    Dark Void nerf : somewhat disagree
    Because the VCG is done in 2 VS 2, it increased the impact of sleep (160% therorical accuracy with two targets). But the culprit was Smeargle, Anything Goes Pokémon by excellent with his cheated ability (Moody) and its gift to learn 100% of the moves. Because of abuse with this Pokémon, Game Freak has once again made a violent nerf by taking the cake and eats too. Not only has the accuracy been reduced to a paltry 50% (rendering the attack unusable), but in addition, no one else but Darkrai can use it (including via Mirror Move).
    In the meantime, Spore stayed at 100% accuracy (but with a good point for Grass immunity, one of the rare cases where you have an "immunity mesh" on a status attack)

    What I will have done is:
    - 80% accuracy on Darkrai (possibly 75% to round up)
    - 50% if it is not Darkrai (allowing to use Mirror Move without excess)
    - And above all, review the sleep mechanics that have not been nerfed in the right direction. (Pokémon is one of the few turn-based games where taking an offensive attack does not awaken the target. Some RPGs even put immunity on a specific status if it has been inflicted too many times in the same fight.)

    Darkrai is not an overpowered Pokémon in Uber. He was in the middle of the tier. It just makes his signature attack completely disappear from the metagame, proof of a nerf once again too violent.


    Stealth Rock : need to be nerfed
    This is the most powerful attack in the entire Metagame, ahead of Knock Off which is in second position.
    Three reasons:
    - With some very rare exceptions (Magic Guard), no Pokémon is immune to it. So it's a destroyer of Sturdy and Focus Sash.
    - Unlike Toxic Spikes, no Pokémon can remove them when entering the field.
    - But above all, the amplitude of the damage is enormous! 50% is abusive. Creatures that fear the Rock-type have tumbled through the tiers.
    Luckily, Heavy Duty Boots arrived in Gen 8, but the fact that 50% of sets drop this item proves that Stealth Rocks centralize the metagame.
    The easiest solution would be to reduce the damage amplitude and limit the maximum to 25 or 30% health, and maybe give Rock-type immunity (immunity mesh).
    Nevertheless, let's take a Game Freak point of view balancing his game for the VGC 2V2. With 4 Pokémons per team, Entry Hazards have less impact than 6V6 solo.
    The other Entry Hazards are better balanced: they are present in the metagame, but not excessively.


    Knock off : need to be nerfed
    Just remove the power boost in the event of a sabotaged item. This is already a huge handicap in strategy. There's no need to push the nail in.


    Destiny Bond nerf : agree
    It was a good idea to forbid launching this attack twice in a row. To ensure a victory, it was enough to spam it.
    Do not forget that it is possible to give a low priority move (typical case of Wobbuffet): the effect is lost as soon as the Pokémon acts on the following turn. A definite advantage if he has the initiative with equal priority.


    Explosion/Self-Destruct nerf : agree
    It was a bit of Gen 2's Destiny Bond: so powerful with its 200% boost that hardly anyone could survive it. (And don't forget that in VGC 2V2, you can do combos with Protect or an immune ally).
    Afterwards, the power of the attack can be increased a bit, but not more than 20%. My idea is to correlate the power of the kamizaze attacks on the remaining HP of the Pokémon which explodes with an amplitude which goes from 60 to 140% of the nominal power (80 to 160% if we want to boost the attack a little)
    Proof that the nerve is balanced: these moves are still used in Suicide Lead.


    Soul Dew nerf: disagree
    There were clear rules for Soul Dew: banned from VGC and cataloged in the Uber tier at Smogon. Without this item, they were allowed in Over Used and VGC.
    Latios and Latias were balanced in the Legendary Tier and their key item nerf has rendered it completely useless. We're talking about a -90% nerf! (50% bonus on 2 stats to a 20% bonus on only 1 stats, and only for half the moves). So the cumulative power boost goes from +100% to a measly +10%.
    Result of this nerf: no change in VGC (since the item is no longer competitive, so not used) and no longer possible to play them competitively in Uber with Soul Dew.


    Gengar nerf: neutral
    Removing the Levitate ability has made this Pokémon less peculiar compared to other Ghosts. He had an interesting role in Over Used. It took him down to Under Used.
    Afterwards, Genger lacked weak points: it only feared the Psychic-type over which he himself has the advantage + the Dark-type which is its only counter.
    What I will have done is leave his two subevolutions with Levitate.


    Parental Bond nerf: agree
    A second hit was the equivalent of multiplying the Attack and Special Attack stat by 1.5, in addition to preventing all 1 HP survivals for sure. x1.25 is better. The proof is that Mega-Kangaskhan has remained in Uber in Gen 7.


    Hidden Power disappearance: somewhat agree
    Since Gen 6, I find that Pokémons have way too much coverage. Hidden Power is the paragon of this philosophy by allowing all creatures to learn an attack of the type they choose.
    Instead, I would nerf the attack power from 60 to 50 instead of completely removing it. Suppressing the attack completely was a bit extreme.
    Funny fact: because of the Gen 4 remakes, they had to reprogram these moves ... only for Unown!


    120 power attacks nerfed to 110: disagree
    This favored the stall and made the less powerful attacks much more interesting. A surf has a higher damage expectation than a Hydro Pump, and with 3 times more PP. It is to say.


    Return/Frustration disappearance: totally disagree
    The Normal-Types are already the least played in strategy, this was a death blow to them. For a license that imposes Affection in its Gen 4 remakes, it's a shame not to reward friendship with these much fairer moves.
     

    Adam Levine

    [color=#ffffff][font="Century Gothic"]I have tried
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  • You could argue whether this nerf is competitive or not, but Bug being resisted by Fairy is pretty unnecessary imo. Bug was already not a very good type, and they made it worse.
     
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