[Let's Go] Mega Evolutions confuse what Let’s Go, Pikachu and Eevee! wants to be

bobandbill · Oct 6, 2018

They're not so fundamentally different though, as both mega evolutions and regular evolutions have clear ties to the original base Kanto Pokemon. Both also serve to show the Pokemon in a new light as well as offer a power boost, one way or another. Crobat is still a bat with a thirst for blood, and both Charizard mega evolutons are still oversized fire lizards that can fly. But to exclude one type of evolution over another seems to be a weird choice to me - why not just go with all of them?

I disagree that including Crobat and etc would really remove any "Kanto feel".

colours · Oct 6, 2018

bobandbill said:
They're not so fundamentally different though, as both mega evolutions and regular evolutions have clear ties to the original base Kanto Pokemon. Both also serve to show the Pokemon in a new light as well as offer a power boost, one way or another. Crobat is still a bat with a thirst for blood, and both Charizard mega evolutons are still oversized fire lizards that can fly. But to exclude one type of evolution over another seems to be a weird choice to me - why not just go with all of them?

I disagree that including Crobat and etc would really remove any "Kanto feel".

I have to be honest, that's an odd argument to use. While I personally don't care whether or not cross-gen evolutions are included in LGPE, I can kind of see why Game Freak wouldn't be comfortable going that route. I'm kind of struggling to see what Pokemon like Slowking, Espeon, Umbreon, Steelix, etc have anything to do with Kanto whatsoever besides the fact that they have "ties" to Kanto Pokemon via evolving from them.

Nah · Oct 6, 2018

Mega Evolutions are simply a new form of that Pokemon. Regular evolutions are given a new name and are classified and listed as entirely separate Pokemon.

I can see why people would think that it's a little weird that they remove most mechanics not present in Gen 1 like hold items and abilities and then include this one Gen 6 mechanic, but this is Game Freak, they're a little weird sometimes and add/remove (usually remove) stuff for who knows what reason.

Rivvon · Oct 6, 2018

colours said:
There's an argument to be made that while mega evolution as a concept was founded in Gen 6, it won't break the Gen 1 immersion because every Pokemon that can mega evolve still are Gen 1 Pokemon; they don't change into a different Pokemon entirely, as is the case with cross-gen evolutions.

Game Freak seems to have the "flexibility" to allow for certain features of previous generations to be included in so long as it doesn't disrupt from the actual Kanto feel.

I get that, but if you push it far enough: they removed held Items and Abilities to help simplify the game, but it's not quite appropriate to incorporate a mechanic that relies on held Items and Abilities to exist and reach their full potential.

In addition, I wouldn't say Mega Evolutions really contribute towards the "Kanto feel" of the games. When I think of Kanto existing in its little vacuum, I definitely don't think of Mega Evolution because it's a mechanic that doesn't have any ties to Kanto. Think of how easy it could have been to include Mega Evolution in the main story of the Alola games, but it was dropped entirely--whether intentional or not, Game Freak has set up the mechanic as something that is more "innate" to some regions than others, and it is established through lore. And if they plan to revamp the Kanto lore to accommodate for these Megas-without-Mega Stones-and-Abilities, it just doesn't seem appropriate to exclude the cross-gen evolutions when bringing the entire game together. At the very least, adding more evolutions to Pokémon would surely help the game be easier for people who choose to use critters like Golbat and Rhyhorn.

CodeHelmet · Oct 7, 2018

Rivvon said:
I get that, but if you push it far enough: they removed held Items and Abilities to help simplify the game, but it's not quite appropriate to incorporate a mechanic that relies on held Items and Abilities to exist and reach their full potential.

In addition, I wouldn't say Mega Evolutions really contribute towards the "Kanto feel" of the games. When I think of Kanto existing in its little vacuum, I definitely don't think of Mega Evolution because it's a mechanic that doesn't have any ties to Kanto. Think of how easy it could have been to include Mega Evolution in the main story of the Alola games, but it was dropped entirely--whether intentional or not, Game Freak has set up the mechanic as something that is more "innate" to some regions than others, and it is established through lore. And if they plan to revamp the Kanto lore to accommodate for these Megas-without-Mega Stones-and-Abilities, it just doesn't seem appropriate to exclude the cross-gen evolutions when bringing the entire game together. At the very least, adding more evolutions to Pokémon would surely help the game be easier for people who choose to use critters like Golbat and Rhyhorn.

Don't forget Gloom(Bellossom), Porygon(Porygon2 and Porygon-Z), Poliwhirl(Politoed), Tangela(Tangrowth), Slowpoke(Slowking), Seadra(Kingdra), Scyther(Scizor), Onix(Steelix <3), Hitmontop, Magneton(Magnezone), Magmar(Magmortar), Electabuzz(Electivire), Chansey(Blissey) and most notable of all: Eevolutions!!! Might as well include their pre-evolutions too(Mime Jr., Smoochum, Munchlax, Cleffa, Tyrogue, Igglybuff, Happiny and Pichu).

All told... that's 19 Evolutions plus 8 Pre-Evolutions to the Kanto Dex. All told that's 178 Pokemon and not factoring in Alolan Variants(which raises it to 195). 195 vs. 151... not too much to ask in my book and could have been justified had they added a Johto Post-Game like Gold/Silver did with Kanto(hence doing it in reverse).

Kurapika · Oct 7, 2018

To be honest the inclusion of Mega evolutions is not what I find weird, Mega evolved Kanto mons are STILL Kanto mons (the process is not tied to Kalos environment).
What is weird to me is the inclusion of Alola forms. Yes they are still considered Kanto Pokémon, but the form is strongly tied to the environment of Alola. So, what the hell?? If they include Alolan forms, they should just go ahead and include cross-gen evolutions and pre-evolutions.
But whatever, Game Freak has ALWAYS had a flawed way of reasoning... :/
I understand their reasoning as that Alolan forms (and Mega forms) are still considered Kanto Pokémon but one must not forget that, in many gen-specific games we had regional Pokédexes that included Pokémon from previous gens... But then again, Kanto is the first region so yeah its original regional Pokédex had only and exclusively Kanto Pokémon... but then again, why Alolan forms?? Ugh...

Rivvon · Oct 7, 2018

CodeHelmet said:
Don't forget Gloom(Bellossom), Porygon(Porygon2 and Porygon-Z), Poliwhirl(Politoed), Tangela(Tangrowth), Slowpoke(Slowking), Seadra(Kingdra), Scyther(Scizor), Onix(Steelix <3), Hitmontop, Magneton(Magnezone), Magmar(Magmortar), Electabuzz(Electivire), Chansey(Blissey) and most notable of all: Eevolutions!!! Might as well include their pre-evolutions too(Mime Jr., Smoochum, Munchlax, Cleffa, Tyrogue, Igglybuff, Happiny and Pichu).

All told... that's 19 Evolutions plus 8 Pre-Evolutions to the Kanto Dex. All told that's 178 Pokemon and not factoring in Alolan Variants(which raises it to 195). 195 vs. 151... not too much to ask in my book and could have been justified had they added a Johto Post-Game like Gold/Silver did with Kanto(hence doing it in reverse).

Scizor and Steelix would have allowed them to add two more Megas, too. If Alola can feel tropical without including Bellossom, Kanto can feel... Kanto-esque while including cross-gen evolutions.

CodeHelmet · Oct 7, 2018

Rivvon said:
Scizor and Steelix would have allowed them to add two more Megas, too. If Alola can feel tropical without including Bellossom, Kanto can feel... Kanto-esque while including cross-gen evolutions.

All they had to do was add Johto as a "post-game" content with say Red or some other "Champion" of Johto(like Silver... now that would be a curveball and a good one). Also Scizor would balance out the old Red vs. Blue Bug debate or Scyther vs. Pinsir. As it stands right now, Pinsir and Beedrill will be used more than their respective counterparts in Scyther and Butterfree respectively simply because they have a Mega and the other ones do not.

The only reason Alolan variants are in the game is because without them, the Type chart would have glaring deficiencies(notably in Dark(Kanto has none) and Steel(has a whopping two if we are going by Generation 2 onward standards)). If you look at it objectively, their decisions make no sense. You have variants(Gen 7), Fairy Types and Mega Evolution(Gen 6) so why not GO the extra mile by adding in the rest of the Evolutions? If you're cutting out abilities, held items and nature's, why not simplify it further and remove the Physical/Special split and go back to how it was in Generation 1 with Special as one stat?

colours · Oct 7, 2018

I agree that it's an odd move to add in Alolan variants, but considering the whole concept of Alolan variants were Kanto Pokemon that simply migrated over (or were brought over), you could make the argument that they're partially related, just enough so that Game Freak has an excuse to bring them over.

It's possible that, as far as Game Freak is concerned, forms and variants are foundationally the same Pokemon while evolution is something else entirely. It would be otherwise true that if they were going for actual Kanto purity, they should not have included things such as megas and alolan forms and whatnot.

bobandbill · Oct 8, 2018

I agree that it's an odd move to add in Alolan variants, but considering the whole concept of Alolan variants were Kanto Pokemon that simply migrated over (or were brought over), you could make the argument that they're partially related, just enough so that Game Freak has an excuse to bring them over.

By the same token then, a lot of the newer-gen evolutions for Kanto Pokemon can be argued to be sensible enough, or related enough to add in (e.g. "your Golbat can become happy enough to evolve into a Crobat. Yay friendship!")

[Let's Go] Mega Evolutions confuse what Let’s Go, Pikachu and Eevee! wants to be

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bobandbill

one more time

colours

Nah

Rivvon

CodeHelmet

Banned

Kurapika