Well, we have Luke running around being balanced, Anti is stalling people for hours upon hours... "And D_A is awesome at whatever he does." Okay, so Mespirit (Luke) and Uxie (Anti) are in full swing. So...it's time for the offensive Azelf (not D_A, he's arceus ;P) of the trio and bring his will upon S&M! That's right Beach is back with another offensive team! Ever since the Haymakers, my team I posted my second day here at PC, I've been going through trial and error with numerous offensive teams. Some success and of course some failures... whatever it may be, I have the fuel to hit the top 100 once again, and tear through my opponents & smash them to bits. Also due to Garchomp's tier status being debated across the land, I had to find an offensive team without my pirate shark.

Frank Marshall said:

I have always liked a wide open game and tried to knock out my opponent with a checkmate as quickly as possible. I subscribe to the old belief that offense is the best form of defense.

Click to expand...

EDIT: Changes are being made with all the weaknesses being pointed out.

In-depth look

Gyarados @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Intimidate
Nature: Adamant (+ Attack, - Special Attack)
Effort Values: 252 Attack, 24 Defense, 232 Speed.

` Waterfall
` Ice fang
` Stone Edge
` Earthquake
.......................
Comments & Suggestions:
The true blue monster of the metagame, though a little twist in there. Usually I'll start the battle and after they see the surprise it's "WTF SCARF!?!" It's a lovely reaction after it eats an opposing foe. With ice fang and earthquake, well that's the greatest type coverage in the game, pack waterfall and earthquake in there, and pretty much hitting everything hard. His speed hits a wooper, which of course, is going first many many times. I have to say, intimidate is one of the most game breaking abilities in the metagame, it changes and alters the opposing strategy so much. (sometimes) The problem I have with gyarados, really isn't much. It lacks versatility on the fly due to choice scarf. Though this beast really has performed excellently. Aquallie helped me fix the effort values, "232 evs for +nature 252 base 125s (Weavile, Swellow)" I could pump it up to 248 and outspeed scarfers such as togekiss. Though, I'll test out those. I poured the remaining evs in defense, I kinda wanted it bulker.

Gyarados is part one of the great combo. In today's metagame there has been an excellent formula floating around, which I love using in my offensive teams (Haymaker's even had it) The formula is Bulky water + Celebi (other sturdy grass) + Heatran. I've been using this awhile, and countless of other competitive players have as well. One of the great formulas in the metagame in my experience with it so far. Gyarados fills the bulky water of the equation. (even if it's set isn't oh so bulky)

vs. common leads.

o1. Gengar (16590 leads)
` The main leads are usually scarfed, they'll either go for the thunderbolt, or they'll hypnosis. In mainly both cases, heatran is first switch. If for some reason I believe they arn't choice scarfed, I can hit out if they are -def nature. Though I have OHKO'd some gengar with waterfall. :/
o2. Bronzong (14887 leads)
` I can't harm it too well, and it usually carries hypnosis. However, due to a majority of Gyarados leads being Tuant varients, they most of the time swing out in fear of tuant... Usually, of course if they have one, to celebi. Ice fang does a nice bite. It's varied between opposing celebi effort value spreads, but this thing has 2HKO'd a few due to them thinking tuant.

o3. Gyarados (12517 leads)
` Well, I mentioned how beastly intimidate was, and it is. I would go first, I would stone egde... though almost everytime I'm getting out and punching celebi's ticket to the field.

o4. Tyranitar (11043 leads)
` So far in all of my matches Gyarados has shred them to peices... I really don't have fears of T-tar, and heck team doesn't mind Sandstorm that much either. Though, choice band can do a number.

o5. Salamence (8894 leads)
` Again, intimidate plays a role. Though I think it would OHKO with ice fang, Heatran could also switch in.

o6. Yanmega (8120 leads)
` Eat teh bug alive :F I honestly havn't encountered one yet... Heatran is the main switch in, which can take the hypnosis and threatin with Lava plume.

o7. Hippowdon (7595 leads)
` I may switch to celebi to get rocks in. Really havn't had any problems what so ever with it.

o8. Ninjask (7485 leads)
` Eat teh bug alive. :F Kinda worried if it does set up seeing as the team lacks a phazer. Though, no BP teams have caused a problem yet.

o9. Azelf (6478 leads)
` Unfortunately, these days it's scarfed. Though simple fun, switch to metagross and rip it to bits with pursuit. =D

10. Infernape (6109 leads)
` Waterfall > Ape, period. Thunder punch users think "Oh time to hurt Gyara" and BAM!! KO'd. Gosh, this beast is fun. HP (ice) varients could cause a problem.



Celebi @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
Nature: Bold (+ Defense, - Attack)
EVs: 252 HP, 220 Defense, 36 Speed

` Grass Knot
` Stealth Rock
` Recover
` Leech seed
.......................
Comments & Suggestions:
As with many offensive teams, you have to have a pokémon that can supply the rocks to the field early. Since the common Gyarados is a top three lead, celebi gets in quite early to perfectly set up rocks. While at the same time being one of Gyarados main counters. Celebi has such a plethora of usuable moves, suffering from the moveslot syndrome. I could easy put thunder wave in there, but didn't really find it that great. Leech seed adds some nice recovery, and recover, well of course it recovers. A common suggestion for Celebi is Heal Bell, well if you look at the line up once more it would pointless to have it. Heracross really wants that status, and stripping it away isn't helping the course for victory, honestly ripping away that possible burn does not boat well with me. It could have U-turn in there for scouting, but with my previous teams, it wasn't that helpful, however it would help predicting pursuiters coming in. Even though Celebi has an extreme amount of weaknesses (Seven) it's an incredible pokémon, it does it's job, and performs very well, it may not be a powerhouse like the rest of the team, but everything needs it's glue (Such as Swampert was for the Haymakers). Grass knot is in there for the aforementioned Gyarados, and other various pokémon.

Effort value spread is quite standard, but that spread has never really failed me, I've received numerous suggestions for better sets, though this one really does the best with my experience playing celebi. Natural cure is another incredible ability, no worries for thunder waves that heads Gyarados's way. Bold nature boosts defense, decreases attack.




Metagross @ Choice Band
Ability: Clear Body
Nature: Adamant (+ Attack, - Special Attack)
EVs: 252 HP, 236 Attack, 12 Defense, 8 Speed

` Meteor Mash
` Explosion
` Pursuit
` Earthquake
.......................
Comments & Suggestions:
You wanna talk about power? How does 601 Attack stat sound? Pretty dang deadly if you ask me. Not much safely comes in on these attacks. Yet again another choice item, to give instant process, and no set up. After testing bullet punch or explosion, explosion takes the vote being much more helpful. Not to mention blowing stuff up is fun. Pursuit is pursuit, come in on a somewhat damage Celebi and fire the guns, really hits hard. Meteor mash is pure bliss in power, also the possible achievement of boost in attack. Earthquake provides coverage. You all know where that set comes from (yes, I'm oh so original) It works just fine. Though with the right suggestions, I would be fine to change it around. A great physical force that needs to be reckoned with. >)



Heatran @ Shed Shell
Ability: Flash Fire
Nature: Modest (+ Special Attack, - Attack)
EVs: 244 HP, 136 Special Attack, 128 Speed

` Lava Plume
` Earth Power
` Rest
` Sleep Talk
.......................
Comments & Suggestions:
Okay so, right after D_A suggests Shed shell, I go take a battle with leftovers, and ironic thing that Duggy was annnooooying. So scrapped leftovers, and put in Shed Shell. It's ability is wonderful for the team, seeing as half of it is weak to fire. 128 Speed evs bring it to 222 speed, outspeeding adamant T-tars and other pokémon around that area as D_A suggested that (w/ those comments on it as well) Heatran comes in on gengar & yanmega and easily absorbs sleep. I felt I needed a sleeptalker as recently my teams have had a rough run in power if I can't take and turn the sleep against them. Lava plume > Fire blast as Heatran wants to stick around longer, and PP stallers are not fun. ._. Earth power, yes I know I know, yet another ground attack, but hitting five types is so useful, and I really don't have another fit for it. Roar could be a choice, but I don't think I need, I will be testing it though. Heatran is ind of like another piece of glue and is the final part of the puzzle in the Bulky+Bi+Tran equation.


Heracross @ Choice Band
Ability: Guts (Burn me and prepare to be PWNed!)
Nature: Adamant (+ Attack, - Special Attack)
EVs: 4 HP, 252 Attack, 252 Speed

` Close Combat
` Stone Egde
` Megahorn
` Pursuit
.......................
Comments & Suggestions:
Seriously, what do I say here? It's an absolute monster! This thing is just incredible. Isn't countered by Skarmory, and other common defensive walls. Guts compliments the team very well. Here's a recent scenario I had in battle: Salamence comes in on roar for a skarmory. Mence fireblasts as they switch to blissey, then I go to brick break with mence and they switch to Dusknoir. What are they going to do? W-o-w of course, and Heracross kindly absorbs it, and then OHKOs Dusknoir, it's a load of fun. =D People think having such a large amount of choice banders hampers play, well no it doesn't. With the synergy of this team the choice pokémon have an easy time mixing around. Also, Heracross comes in for the Celebi that threatin Gyarados. Two Pursuiting choice banders in my opinion though testing this team is very effective. And a lot of fun if they do happen to think about switching. Close combat murders so many things it's unreal, I'm just speechless how much and how effective CBHera really is. The effort values are meh looking, but they really do just fine. I'll change if I get the right suggestion.



Salamence @ Life orb
Ability: Intimidate
Nature: Rash (+ Special Attack, - Special Defense)
EVs: 120 Attack, 252 Special Attack, 136 speed

` Fire Blast
` Draco Meteor
` Brick Break
` Roost
.......................
Comments & Suggestions:
Four months ago w/ the Haymakers, Mixmence was a nice surprise. These days the metagame has adjusted and Mixmence is no longer really a big surprise, but actually since people know it's coming it's boated well for the synergy for the team strangely. Fire blast does nicely to steels, if Heatran gets any ideas...it's brick break time. Brick Break is also for Blissey too. I've always have a perference for Roost, it just does more for the continued destruction of the team. I could use Crunch, but I have enough dark moves on the team, so it isn't really needed. Also the second intimidate in the team, so switching from Gyarados and Salamence can do a number to a foe's attack. Beast also provides a nice fire resis since half the team is weak to fire. =/ Anyway, I love mence and don't think I could use a better set in this team.


Oh noes, half the team weak to fire? Five quad weakness!? This team is terrible!!11! Are you insane!!!!!11!!one!

Actually, I am. as you can see fire can cause some trouble affecting half of the team. However, Heatran absorbs fire to turn it into firepower, and Heracross can absorb the common W-o-w. Not to mention Gyarados and Salamence both resist it, so it evens out.

As you can see, two members of my team take 25% on entry if Stealth rocks lay the field. You wouldn't believe how many people say get a spinner. I have honestly never liked rapid spinners... just something about slowing down to lose some rocks or spikes annoys me, and usually they have a ghost to immune it anyway. I have not had a problem with it, seeing as this team ends matches quickly and swiftly. Another point, I really don't see a Rapid spinner fitting in the synergy this team contains, I just don't see a good fit, that remains berserking.


Offensive berserking teams throw walls out the window and focus on resistences and immunities. Celebi usually gets in early, sets up rocks, and then the fun begins. Various situations cause Heracross to absorb status and cause a field day of pain. And yes, with all the quad weaknesses, I really can get smoked if misprediction occurs alot. However, my prediction is on fire lately. Example: Battled clade the other day, won 5-0 and only messed up in prediction twice which caused Salamence to eat a dragon pulse in overprediction. I know the pressure from being so offensive, and I love to thrive in it. Makes playing this game such an incredible rush and blast. Overall, I have a wonderful time playing this team.

Feel free to comment & rate the team~ ;D


Note: do not quote rate, I find it annoying, just comment your suggestions... I don't need to see the team once more in quotes. >>; So please, no quote rates.

Actually bumping this so it isn't ignored. :D

Does Gyarados need that much Speed with Choice Scarf. If not, I think you should find a solid magic number to reach and invest EVs elsewhere.

Blueberry said:

Actually bumping this so it isn't ignored. :D

Does Gyarados need that much Speed with Choice Scarf. If not, I think you should find a solid magic number to reach and invest EVs elsewhere.

Click to expand...

Hehe.

That's what I've been thinking, I got a set from D_A & T_S but couldn't relocate it. xD
So far the speed, well is the speed. I've been using that spread awhile now, and hasn't really done bad. (well team is 15-1, so yeah)

Probably would pour the EVs into defense.

I have to test out their spread though, I'd like Gyarados to come in on some more things I guess.

I assume Luke is Loquacity? Haha, you'll never know my real name :)

IMO 3 choice item users is going to work against you...it's going to be easily stalled if you keep it that way.

I've actually warmed up to MixMence though, so that's pretty sweet.

Still, being typical Anti, I am going to offer a suggestion to make your team defensively stronger :)

Gyarados and Salamence provide the same resistances really. I would actually suggest you replace Salamence or Gyarados to stop SR and SS from beating down on you...though it isn't necessary (in other words it isn't a huge problem).

Watch out for dugtrio though, as it can trap and kill half of your team and Stone Edge isn't exactly kind to Salamence and Gyarados.

you know I don't like the team due to sweepers everywhere, but it looks solid. watch out for Dugtrio though.

Anti-Pop said:

I assume Luke is Loquacity? Haha, you'll never know my real name :)

IMO 3 choice item users is going to work against you...it's going to be easily stalled if you keep it that way.

I've actually warmed up to MixMence though, so that's pretty sweet.

Still, being typical Anti, I am going to offer a suggestion to make your team defensively stronger :)

Gyarados and Salamence provide the same resistances really. I would actually suggest you replace Salamence or Gyarados to stop SR and SS from beating down on you...though it isn't necessary (in other words it isn't a huge problem).

Watch out for dugtrio though, as it can trap and kill half of your team and Stone Edge isn't exactly kind to Salamence and Gyarados.

you know I don't like the team due to sweepers everywhere, but it looks solid. watch out for Dugtrio though.

Click to expand...

Ahaha, Anti is your name fuul~

I kinda figured you'd come and make those points. Well, through sixteen games, the three choice seems bad on paper, but it really hasn't done bad. Though in the team's one lose the three factors occured. Duggy does look like a problem only faced it three times, one got away with some destruction though (my only loss with the bersekers)

Replace Gyarados or Mence? Mmm... I don't think I could replace Gyara seeing as I kinda build the team around it (kinda) I don't really know of a duel threat that could replace mence though... I know you want and promote more stall, but Anti, you know me, I'm not much for slowing down or giving my opponent an oppurtunity to breathe. Celebi and the resis/immun play the defense really.

If your for replacing mence what do you think would be a proper solution? o0

I'm not promoting stall on a team as defensively-appalling as this (;)), but I think you should make an effort to be better defensively and yada yada.

But really, when you run into a team based 100% on stalling, your choice sweepers are going to be stalled to death. I'll use my team as an example (since it's the only stall team I know :P)

MixMence comes to sweep, Tenacruel is in its face and SS, LO, and SR damage has piled up quickly, and you'll have to switch (as Roosting would give Tenta an open shot to OHKO with Ice Beam).

Gyarados is the same way really, only it's much more restricted than Mence but doesn't have to worry about LO damage. Either way, something like bulky Zapdos is going to shrug off any hit and can pressure-stall Stone Edge with Roost while SS damage + the SR damage earlier will start to take its toll.

Metagross is very similar here, only it's not going to be taking any damage. So random physical wall comes in (in my case hippowdon) and walls Metagross. No biggy? Well, This gives Hippowdon's user a prime chance to predict your switch-in, which would probably be Celebi (am I right?) Now I can bring Tentacruel in and lol at Leech Seed and Spin away SR while shooting off Ice Beams and Surfs at Celebi or poetntial switches.

You get the point. My point is pretty much that half your sweepers are pretty easily stalled (especially gyarados and Mence), so I would get something that is going to take care of stallers well. While you can overpower stallers, stallers can often times outstall you, so it's kinda risky. I dunno, it doesn't look like Mence really does anything (but ironically is a good stall-breaker for unprepared stall teams).

I don't think you have a big problem, but I'd watch out for it.

I think your team has 2 or 3 minor problems, but nothing major. with that in mind, I probably wouldn't make any changes, Just know that stall teams can eat ya up as easily as you can eat them up :)

Anti says stall might be a problem, Berserkers then destroy Anti. 8D

Anti-Pop said:

I'm not promoting stall on a team as defensively-appalling as this (;)), but I think you should make an effort to be better defensively and yada yada.

But really, when you run into a team based 100% on stalling, your choice sweepers are going to be stalled to death. I'll use my team as an example (since it's the only stall team I know :P)

MixMence comes to sweep, Tenacruel is in its face and SS, LO, and SR damage has piled up quickly, and you'll have to switch (as Roosting would give Tenta an open shot to OHKO with Ice Beam).

Gyarados is the same way really, only it's much more restricted than Mence but doesn't have to worry about LO damage. Either way, something like bulky Zapdos is going to shrug off any hit and can pressure-stall Stone Edge with Roost while SS damage + the SR damage earlier will start to take its toll.

Metagross is very similar here, only it's not going to be taking any damage. So random physical wall comes in (in my case hippowdon) and walls Metagross. No biggy? Well, This gives Hippowdon's user a prime chance to predict your switch-in, which would probably be Celebi (am I right?) Now I can bring Tentacruel in and lol at Leech Seed and Spin away SR while shooting off Ice Beams and Surfs at Celebi or poetntial switches.

You get the point. My point is pretty much that half your sweepers are pretty easily stalled (especially gyarados and Mence), so I would get something that is going to take care of stallers well. While you can overpower stallers, stallers can often times outstall you, so it's kinda risky. I dunno, it doesn't look like Mence really does anything (but ironically is a good stall-breaker for unprepared stall teams).

I don't think you have a big problem, but I'd watch out for it.

I think your team has 2 or 3 minor problems, but nothing major. with that in mind, I probably wouldn't make any changes, Just know that stall teams can eat ya up as easily as you can eat them up :)

Click to expand...

Oh oh oh! Hold up. What is this about stall eatin' me up easily?
Want to use your team? Okay, how about the battle we just had, Anti. *evil grin sheers across face*

*ahem* score:

Beach-Berserkers vs. Anti-stall
5 - 0

Yeah one ch in there, but yeah, they pretty much owned you six ways to sunday. ;P So if you want to throw scenarios out there, maybe I should go make a battle log? >) Yeah thought so... I do understand your point though, I can be stalled, however, against stall teams I'm 4-0, and really no problems with them yet. Such an amount of choice seems scary but they mesh well in the team. Salamence is somewhat of a weak link, but the second intimidate is incredible, and Mix mence is still a fun surprise for people not used to it's appearence in the metagame. Not to mention Draco meteor still is a force.

I, so far, have taken care of stallers quite nicely, prediction rage has done well, and seriously explosion on Metagross was awesome.

I too see the minor problems, but I feel so far in testing a change could bring more... So far so good.

However...
Everyone, feel free to comment and rate~

A team without solid walls is fa

Overall a pretty solid team, but lack of walls and serious speed means that you will have some problem with sweepers.

Okay, for the Gyra EV spread,
248 speed to outrun neutral base 80 252 scarfers (Togekiss, meh)
236 for neutral 252 ScarfTran (base 77)
184 for +nature 252 ScarfTtar (base 61)

or

232 for +nature 252 base 125s (Weavile, Swellow)
176 for +nature 252 base 115s (Azelf, Ambipom, Starmie)
At least 136 to outrun +nature 252 Infernapes

Hippowdon takes 42.85714% - 50.47619% from Gyarados' waterfall (36.85714% - 44.47619% with lefties), and can set up SR and Slack Off. Not to mention that you are locked into Waterfall, creating an easy switch to Vaporeon or Starmie, both which can set-up/pose a threat.

Lack of speed for an offensive team, creating opportunities for Deoxys-E mostly. It can do a lot of damage late-game, scoring easy OHKOs on Gyarados, Salamence and Heracross, and 2HKOing Celebi. Heatran and Metagross can deal with D-E, but both of them can be walled provided the D-E user is smart enough.
Metagross will most probably choose Bullet Punch or Pursuit, both of them opening opportunities for physical walls to come in. Heatran doesn't pose a real offensive threat and others can come in to wall it, particularly enemy Heatran and Dragons.
Even more threatening is the fact that D-E is usually deployed lategame as a revenge killer.
I specifically did not mention Superpower on Heatran because it would be Intimidated by Gyara/Salamence.

Not much can switch in on CBTyranitar, hitting:

• Salamence and Gyarados SE with Stone Edge, Heracross, Heatran and Celebi neutral
• Heatran and Metagross with Earthquake, but it is very risky to lock itself into a Ground move
• Celebi Super-Effective with Crunch, everything except Heatran neutral

CBTtar can switch in on Celebi with ease, Pursuiting and generally removing your only wall.

Once the opponent knows that Celebi does not carry Psychic, Breloom can switch in and wall it. Grass Knot does 18.08118% - 21.40221% to Breloom, and Sub/Spore Breloom can pose a threat to Heatran, Subbing on the switch and FPing it.
Salamence walls FP/Seed Bomb, but there is a risk of Breloom Sporing Salamence.

Roost is a generally inferior option on Salamence, given the counters to Mixmence all carry some form of Ice attack, and revenge-killers will outspeed Salamence.

LO Mamoswine weakness. Ice Shard takes care of Salamence while Earthquake takes care of Metagross and Heatran. Ice Fang / Blizzard 2HKOs Celebi, and the only reliable switchin to it is Gyarados. Heracross can revenge kill but Mamoswine will most likely have done damage. Granted, it can't switch into any of your pokemons, but it can come in after a kill and pose a threat.

HP Ice Mixape might pose a problem, outspeeding and hitting SE on everything except Gyarados. It can't come in like Mamoswine, but also can come in after a kill.

Cresselia poses a problem to this team, walling everything except Heracross, which essentially you have two choices:

• Megahorn, potentially meeting a physical wall
• Pursuit, may eat Psychic or Reflect set-up

I mentioned all the threats that may pose a problem, but I'm not sure what fixes should be made.

Aquillae, thank you, one of the best rates of my teams I've ever seen. Yeah, lacks speed (you have no idea how much I want to use garchomp) ;P I think I'll use the 232 effort values to outspeed +nature 252 base 125s.

On metagross... I'll be going with explosion, I've been testing it lately with little problems. Mmm. Your right D-E can cause a problem, well good thing I havn't battled it yet. :x

For T-tar, I have generally outpredicted my opponent and somehow saved my self from losing to it. Though yes, I definitly see your point. On the pursuit for Celebi, yes, that's why I've been considering U-turn, so I could predict the switch in and get out. Though revenge is asking for it.

Yeah, pretty Mamo weak, though outpredicted every one so far. But yeah, usually all my teams are Mamo weak. xD

Roost an inferior option... hmm. So, anything that would be a better option there?

Well it's scary there are actually so many holes are in the team, though no team is perfect. I wonder what I can do to improve that.

Thanks again Aquillae. Excellent rate.

In all honesty, had I known Celebii DIDIN'T have Psychic, I could've killed it long ago. I was ever so pissed to learn that NOW. I could have left Bruce in, or swapped Vileplume in without fear. Last time I go about not looking up the team first.

Yeah, D-E is a problem especially Spiking and Knock off variants. What ever you switch into it, if it starts knocking of items, your going to be crippled. If shed shell gets removed from Heatran = Duggy, Scarf and band removed from Gyarados, Meta and Hera, they will become less useful, and Lefties from Celebi, it will become less effective in walling. Life Orb from mence, its not going to be breaking walls for much longer.

Id REALLY be careful of DD Tar also, it has the potential to wreck your team. DD/Stone Edge/Crunch/EQ << I think you might want either a floaty steel or a bulky fighting type.




EDIT : I actually dont see how Roost is inferior on Mence tbh, it helps with Life Orb recoil, SR and SS.

Ooo, Ooo, Haryama!

Let me get this straight. Is Choice Scarf the equvilent to one Dragon Dance Speed boost?

sims796 said:

In all honesty, had I known Celebii DIDIN'T have Psychic, I could've killed it long ago. I was ever so pissed to learn that NOW. I could have left Bruce in, or swapped Vileplume in without fear. Last time I go about not looking up the team first.

Click to expand...

Let's not spoil, you know what I mean. *wink*

Well honestly, in my opinion. I think it's a bit mmm "wrong" to look up the team before hand. Provides unfair advantage really. =/ Though do what cha want, nobody is stopping ya Sims. ;P And if they posted it, it really is open for public anyway, so meh. xD

D_A said:

Yeah, D-E is a problem especially Spiking and Knock off variants. What ever you switch into it, if it starts knocking of items, your going to be crippled. If shed shell gets removed from Heatran = Duggy, Scarf and band removed from Gyarados, Meta and Hera, they will become less useful, and Lefties from Celebi, it will become less effective in walling. Life Orb from mence, its not going to be breaking walls for much longer.

Id REALLY be careful of DD Tar also, it has the potential to wreck your team. DD/Stone Edge/Crunch/EQ << I think you might want either a floaty steel or a bulky fighting type.




EDIT : I actually dont see how Roost is inferior on Mence tbh, it helps with Life Orb recoil, SR and SS.

Click to expand...

Bulky fighting or floaty steel aye, Yama or champ do sound nice, but were would they fit? o0 Bronzong a possibility, but that would slow me down .-.

BeachBoy said:

Let's not spoil, you know what I mean. *wink*

Well honestly, in my opinion. I think it's a bit mmm "wrong" to look up the team before hand. Provides unfair advantage really. =/ Though do what cha want, nobody is stopping ya Sims. ;P And if they posted it, it really is open for public anyway, so meh. xD



Bulky fighting or floaty steel aye, Yama or champ do sound nice, but were would they fit? o0 Bronzong a possibility, but that would slow me down .-.

Click to expand...

>> Hera possibly as they do the same thing, CB Machamp and Hariyama are beasty, however, you make want a more defensive set up so you can switch in better.

Dark_Azelf said:

>> Hera possibly as they do the same thing, CB Machamp and Hariyama are beasty, however, you make want a more defensive set up so you can switch in better.

Click to expand...

Okay, what sets & spreads do you recommend for both of them?

BeachBoy said:

Let's not spoil, you know what I mean. *wink*

Click to expand...

I'm so stupid, I just got it now :laugh:

BeachBoy said:

Okay, what sets & spreads do you recommend for both of them?

Click to expand...

Well you could run Rest-talk machamp, however, you already have Heatran for that =p, so.


Machamp@Choice Band
128 HP / 252 Atk / 128 Speed
Adamant Nature
Trait : guts
- Close Combat
- Payback
- Thunderpunch
- Ice Punch


Payback strokes cresselia and other psychic and ghost switch ins, a 2hko on max hp / max def cressy, its essentially 300 power vs it factoring Super effectiveness.

128 speed outpaces standard Skarmory.



As for Hariyama, you can CB it with the same set as champ, 252 ATT / 88 DEF / 168 SPEED is what i use for that.


However, this is the best Anti T-Tar set and support set in general.


Hariyama@Leftovers
76 HP / 252 DEF / 180 SP.DEF
Impish nature
Trait : Thick Fat
- Force Palm / Cross Chop
- Toxic
- Knock off
- Whirlwind




EDIT : On Celebi, consider Reflect, it will help your team walling crap in the long run, also as an added bonus it half's Pursuits power.

Dark, STOP SAYING THINGS!

Making it harder to beat. Reflect is an awful idea on Celebii. Sure, it may SEEM like a good idea to cover your bases and keep yourself from leaving a gaping hole in your team, but, um...it's still bad.

sims796 said:

Dark, STOP SAYING THINGS!

Making it harder to beat. Reflect is an awful idea on Celebii. Sure, it may SEEM like a good idea to cover your bases and keep yourself from leaving a gaping hole in your team, but, um...it's still bad.

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Why is it bad, not getting its face shoved down its throat with Pursuit seems pretty good to me and supporting the rest of his team. Unless you were being sarcastic/joking lol ?

Dark_Azelf said:

Why is it bad, not getting its face shoved down its throat with Pursuit seems pretty good to me and supporting the rest of his team. Unless you were being sarcastic/joking lol ?

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Of course I'm serious! Now he doesn't even NEED Psychic to beat Pursuiters. Now he fills the hole that left him painfully open (at least for five turns). And now, my Top can't do enough damage for a KO.