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5th Gen Post-e4: Were the older Pokemon NEEDED?

Ho-Oh

used Sacred Fire!
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    This question can apply to both those who have beaten the main story, as well as those who haven't yet but are aware that you can find past Pokemon after the elite four.

    You play through the games right up until the end of the elite four, with only Unova Pokemon in battles, in the wild, everywhere. It's pushed that these games are a new start and far away from other games, but then once you defeat the elite four, suddenly all these older Pokemon appear out of nowhere almost (of course, on that side of Unova you hadn't yet been to).

    It seems that they threw them in only because they had to, to please fans. With the introduction of the Dream World, they could've easily made the older Pokemon only accessable there, and instead used the other side of Unova to feature the evolved forms of native Unova Pokemon. This is considering that on the western side of Unova there's mostly the first forms of Pokemon, most of which have at least one evolved form, which is a lot higher than in other games. In other words, the creators could afford to only have evolutions on the eastern side of Unova, rather than just cramming in Pokemon from past generations there, completely ruining the isolation and new world they were trying to create.

    Do you believe the atmosphere the games were trying to create was ruined post elite four when suddenly past Pokemon appear in both trainer battles as well as the wild?

    And because of this, do you think it's ever possible that we'll one day have games that can really be all new Pokemon and whether it'll get to the point that it's impossible to catch everything, because the games aren't limiting the amount of Pokemon able to be seen?

    I wonder if the creators thought the older Pokemon were necessary to keep older players interested - in which case making me question whether the creators changed so much to make up for the fact that the older Pokemon were gone and that people could no longer relate to them as much.

    ...Anyway, before I start drifting off, just discuss. XD Anddd I'll reply later. Also please note that this is not whether you miss the older Pokemon - that has a thread for itself. This one is regarding whether the older Pokemon do ruin the post-game atmosphere.
     
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    well i haven't played black and white but i heard about that and i think its a bunch of BS too. they should make a game where you can go to all the regions, sort of like gold/silver/crystal, and only have native pokemon of that region avaliable there. But truthfully, i'm not even buying black and white because it doesnt have the older pokemon till the end. :/ if they had them throughout the whole game i would of maybe concidered it, and the company probably knows people that way. but i dont see the point of winning the whole thing to get the team i want and have nothing more to do with them lol.
     
    I thought that it was kinda weird that we have been in the continent the entire game and there were all these other older Pokemon just chillin over on the other half
     
    so are we giving our opinions on if the older pokemon should of been in black and white because I think you need them in it so you have a mix of old and new pokemon but waiting until the elite 4 is annoying.
     
    I can see where you're coming from on this, it does kinda wreck the feeling of the isolation a little. I was really enjoying not knowing exactly what it is that will pop up in the grass, and seeing a Pokémon I've never seen before.

    However, therein lies my opinion on this matter. You have to remember that these games were aimed primarily at new players to the franchise, not hardcore players such as ourselves. therefore, beating the Elite Four and moving across to the extra portion of the map is a continuation of that for these people. To us, things like kakuna and Drifblim are old news, but to new players, don't you think that feeling of seeing a pokémon you've never seen before is continued to a whole new level?

    That's what I think. I can see why many of the hardcore players are disappointed, but at the end of the day, these games aren't primarily aimed at hardcore players. We are a tertiary audience.
     
    [PokeCommunity.com] Post-e4: Were the older Pokemon NEEDED?


    It doesn't make too much sense to me that the old gen pokes would hang out anywhere in Unova barring the White Forest, it just seems.. a bit strange that eastern Unova was conveniently blocked off preE4, and hey, it turns out that that's where the old pokes hang out, who would've guessed? If nothing else the area around Castelia should probably be the place most infected with old gen mons, given how it is a metropolis and has a rather large port.. but then again I can see how some fans would be annoyed that they couldn't use their dream team vs Cynthia w/o having access to a trade partner :x

    It could be worse. I, for one, love the fact that I can actually GET slowpoke in this generation as well without trading with HG/SS :]
     
    Horizon said:
    I can see where you're coming from on this, it does kinda wreck the feeling of the isolation a little. I was really enjoying not knowing exactly what it is that will pop up in the grass, and seeing a Pokémon I've never seen before.

    However, therein lies my opinion on this matter. You have to remember that these games were aimed primarily at new players to the franchise, not hardcore players such as ourselves. therefore, beating the Elite Four and moving across to the extra portion of the map is a continuation of that for these people. To us, things like kakuna and Drifblim are old news, but to new players, don't you think that feeling of seeing a pokémon you've never seen before is continued to a whole new level?

    That's what I think. I can see why many of the hardcore players are disappointed, but at the end of the day, these games aren't primarily aimed at hardcore players. We are a tertiary audience.
    Click to expand...

    I see what you are saying and I like all the new pokemon that in black and white, I like seeing what they evolve in to but it does take time to get used to the pokemon types whcih why I think some people find the game harder. the difficulty is the same but the pokemon are different which is why I think people enjoy the older pokemon so then they can make the teams they won't and know really well but I also agree with what you are saying.
     
    Do you believe the atmosphere the games were trying to create was ruined post elite four when suddenly past Pokemon appear in both trainer battles as well as the wild?
    Yes, yes it was. I actually kinda laughed, when I found craploads of old Pokemon in the grass.
    Couldn't help but remember all that advertising saying, "A brand new place and such. Not to mention that Araragi says that Pokemon from other regions are extremely rare, or something, doesn't she?

    And because of this, do you think it's ever possible that we'll one day have games that can really be all new Pokemon and whether it'll get to the point that it's impossible to catch everything, because the games aren't limiting the amount of Pokemon able to be seen?
    Well no. Gamefreak knows that if they don't add in the old Pokemon, there will be an abundance of haters.
     
    this whole unova being isolated was just hype up by the fans. Unova was never ment to be completly seperated from other regions. and why wouldnt trainers from other regions come to unova so it makes sense to have them there with old pokemon. And it was stated in the game that some of the older pokemon are there because they escaped from the poke transfer
     
    I agree that including the old pokemon kinda ruins the whole isolation thing...I find it so refreshing not knowing the next pokemon thts going to jump out at me. Instead of throwing the old pokemon into one place after the E4 they should have let us travel back to the other regions to catch the oldies. Thts something I've been hoping for a while now, i know they did it in HG and SS but tht was only two generations worth. And by doing tht in the new gens it makes for a much bigger adventure :D
     
    I preferred it when the older pokemon weren't randomly popping up all over the place. I'd much rather there be a seperate island you could travel to where older pokemon are available.
     
    If they didn't include them at all we would have a hard time completing our pokedex. You can't find your pokemon in GTS without first seeing them.

    The only thing I don't like about old pokemon appearing is the high level unevolved forms. Lv60 Caterpie is a joke lol.
     
    i think it does ruin the feel of the game. after how much they went through to show that unova was so far away and seprate from the other regions and how rare it is to see an older gen pokemon in the games. then they all just show up
     
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    I personally like the change. It makes me feel like I am starting over at square one just like the very 1st generations. Although.. i haven't reached the point of which you are referring to, but it does seem odd to throw the originals in at the last minute.
     
    It really didn't feel the same at all after the E4. I was more upset about the sudden level jump forcing me to grind my team up past Lv60 than I was about the non-Unova Pokemon, but that bothered me as well. I like having them accessible, but I'd really rather they have kept it as limited as possible. The unexplored part of Unova didn't feel at all like the Unova I'd come to know and love over the course of the game.
     
    I don't necessarily think that it ruined the feeling of freshness. Considering the story is over, I see no harm in having old generation Pokemon past the E4. There are so many Pokemon now, it'd be practically impossible to fill the Pokedex without having some previous Pokemon within the game.
     
    It kinda ruins everything, especially encountering wild Gravelers post-National... if we wanted them in B/W in the first place, we should have just transferred them over, not go into "Oh crap, not another wild Zubat" again.
     
    I like the idea of "Each Pokemon is only Native to such-and-such a region"

    Except Magikarp...Magikarps are EVERYWHERE

    but I HATE running into wild pokemon from other regions in Isshu, mainly because Isshu is so far removed from all the other regions

    I saw a map of the Pokemon Nation, and it shows
    (you can find it on the Bulbapedia Wiki)
    Hoenn>Johto>Kanto>Sinnoh in that order if I remember

    Isshu was nowhere to be found....
     
    I was immensely put off when I saw all the older Pokemon in the wild after beating the Elite Four.

    It—to me—voided the thought of using PokéShifter to transfer Pokemon you have from past games, despite having a lot that aren't actually availlable in the wild. It was a hope I had before Black and White was released that Unova-esque wild Pokemon everywhere in the region would make eventually building your own team of familiar faces a bit more enjoyable, as well as by gaining individual quality both in-game and through competitive play.

    But unfortunately that was only a hope.
     
    It did kinda ruin the isolation aspect which had been hyped up, but the story is over, so I'm not too bothered because I quite like seeing the oldies again :)

    But I think they could of handled it a little better, throwing in loads of Gen I-IV pokemon in at the end seems a bit clumsy, but oh well I can live with it.
     
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