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Old May 15th, 2017 (2:25 PM).
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The announcement of the next Mythical Pokémon came surprisingly early. What does Marshadow suggest about the next games in the Pokémon franchise?

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Old May 15th, 2017 (6:32 PM).
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    There is one Pokémon they could be saving for an event next year, which is a new forme for Lycanroc that was leaked by SciresM:

    https://twitter.com/SciresM/status/799420279697117184
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    Old May 15th, 2017 (9:25 PM). Edited May 15th, 2017 by Meyneth.
    Meyneth Meyneth is offline
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    The Switch is not a successor to the 3DS. I will grant you that Nintendo have been pushing the portable functionality of the Switch a lot, and its sales are more positive than the disaster that was the Wii U, but their continued support of the 3DS and their discontinuation of the Wii U - something they said they were not going to do - shows just how little faith they have in this "hybrid" nonsense. It's very clear where Nintendo's focus is with the Switch. It's a home console. I wouldn't count the Switch as a hybrid in any sense of the word until the apparently inevitable Switch Mini is released.

    Not only that, but Nintendo have unquestioned dominion over the handheld market, with the Vita being completely abandoned by Sony, and no other viable competition. Let's not embarrass ourselves by pretending that mobile gaming is going to replace handheld gaming; people have been saying that for years and the 3DS' sales are just laughing in their face over it. There is still extremely strong demand for the 3DS, and the 3DS owes its success in a very large part to Pokemon. Moving the main series of Pokemon games to the Switch would kill the 3DS completely. There is no getting around that. The final death knell of the 3DS will be when the next core Pokemon games aren't on it; it's that simple. Nothing else should be taken as an indicator of when the handheld's life is at an end. And for Nintendo to move Pokemon off the 3DS and onto the Switch would completely fly in the face of everything they've been saying about supporting both at once.

    My point in relation to the article, then? Marshadow's official reveal and the Switch's release have no relevance to one another. There is nothing there to indicate that the next generation will not also be on the 3DS, or the hypothetical successor to the 3DS previously speculated, if Nintendo can be taken at their word when they say that they will continue to support the 3DS. For once, there is more evidence to support the notion that they actually will this time, given the upcoming New 2DS XL and slew of games being announced for the handheld into 2018 at least.

    The 3DS is not on its last legs. It's a very old machine relatively speaking, yes, but...again, domination over the handheld market. Not only that, but the market for consoles and handhelds is changing, with upgrades taking precedence over new hardware. PS4 Pro. Xbox whatever. New 3DS. Now Nintendo are distancing themselves from the 3D aspect of their handheld entirely - which they were doing before now even; a lot of games don't even support 3D, Pokemon included - and releasing a proper clamshell model of the 2DS. It could have years left to its lifespan, quite easily. All they would need to do would be to keep Pokemon on it. If, as they claim, they are going to continue to support the 3DS alongside the Switch, the chances of Gen VIII being on the Switch are astronomically slim, because there is no way they can sustain the 3DS without core Pokemon titles. Let's not kid ourselves. Either Nintendo are a pack of liars - which wouldn't be surprising - or they're keeping Pokemon on the 3DS and the best the Switch can hope for is enhanced remakes or spinoffs.

    ...um. I'm getting off the subject, aren't I? I just thought it was an incredibly flimsy thing to suggest. I'll move on.

    I think it far more likely that Marshadow's earlier release is just a sign of the times, and a move to shorter gaps between generations. You can't really look at Pokemon's past as an indication of its future. Game Freak have been changing things up since Generation V, and can you blame them? Franchises as old as Pokemon or even older still are evolving all the time to try and keep up with modern standards...I mean, if you want a prime example, look no further than Final Fantasy. The smaller number of new Pokemon per generation (and the re-treads in things like Mega Evolution and Alola forms) would also suggest this to me as well; they need to get them out as quickly as possible, whilst keeping the old ones relevant.

    So one might argue that the requirement for evolution in the franchise to fit with the times demands a move to the Switch. Normally I would agree, but for the points I stated earlier regarding Nintendo's unquestioned domination over the handheld market, along with the evidence that suggests the 3DS will continue long into the future and may even receive a successor in some form. Pokemon can afford to evolve very little as a franchise - the gameplay is solid, it only needs tweaks from time-to-time, and small changes the fans can hype into oblivion even though it's basically the same thing as before - but it still needs to remain relevant and interesting, and retreads of the same content (outside of remakes for nostalgia purposes) just don't cut it in the gaming industry anymore. Three years is a long time now relatively speaking, too long to spend on a single generation, and with things like Yokai Watch being popular in Japan (albeit for a limited time) Pokemon might be the unquestioned ruler of its niche, but it is by no means unchallenged the way it used to be.

    That said, the robust sales of Sun and Moon might allow Game Freak to create a third version or sequel with additional new Pokemon, and I don't think it entirely impossible (although unlikely, due to the fanbase division that would result from it) for the Switch and the 3DS to receive the same Pokemon title with very minor differences between them or some sort of connectivity. But taking Marshadow's reveal in conjunction with the Switch's release is, in my opinion, a baseless assumption that subsequent generations will move to the Switch. There is literally zero evidence outside of that to support the theory, and a mountain of evidence - including statements from Nintendo themselves - to suggest that the 3DS (or at least its successor) will be the primary home for the core Pokemon games for at least another generation or two.

    Not only that, but developing a good core Pokemon title that takes full advantages of the Switch's capabilities will likely take at least two years. That's being optimistic about it, too. You could argue that the two years between now and then could be filled by DPPt remakes and an Alolan re-tread - or even just DPPt remakes - and maybe there is some merit to that possibility, but...again, I don't think Game Freak can really afford to dally that long on generations anymore. It's not the same market that it was when Pokemon was first released, or even when the DS was around.

    ...I realise I've probably gone way off point, but even so. I wouldn't read too much into Marshadow's early reveal in the grand scheme of things. As Game Freak have proven, past trends in the franchise no longer have any bearing whatsoever on their future projects, and as Nintendo have proven, they have absolutely no idea how to be a proper business and do the financially sensible or expected thing. Maybe it DOES mean Gen VII is coming to a close (thank god!) but it does NOT mean anything in regards to the franchise's future, or where that future will be. Don't count on a Switch-only core Pokemon game anytime soon. Unless you have even less faith in Nintendo than I do and are convinced they're lying about continued 3DS support alongside the Switch, anyway. I certainly wouldn't be surprised; making sense and being truthful are not things I typically associate with Nintendo.
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    Old May 16th, 2017 (3:03 AM).
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    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Pinkie-Dawn View Post
    There is one Pokémon they could be saving for an event next year, which is a new forme for Lycanroc that was leaked by SciresM:

    https://twitter.com/SciresM/status/799420279697117184
    Huh, I did not know that! I do wonder though if it's just a placeholder in the end (especially given the lack of actual image), or something vaguely planned that never gets used (e.g. Azure Flute in DPPt). Guess we'll have to wait and see. Not sure if it would quite fit the regular 'definition' of Mythical either given it'd be just a different form of Lycanroc.
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Meyneth View Post
    The Switch is not a successor to the 3DS. I will grant you that Nintendo have been pushing the portable functionality of the Switch a lot, and its sales are more positive than the disaster that was the Wii U, but their continued support of the 3DS and their discontinuation of the Wii U - something they said they were not going to do - shows just how little faith they have in this "hybrid" nonsense. It's very clear where Nintendo's focus is with the Switch. It's a home console. I wouldn't count the Switch as a hybrid in any sense of the word until the apparently inevitable Switch Mini is released.

    Not only that, but Nintendo have unquestioned dominion over the handheld market, with the Vita being completely abandoned by Sony, and no other viable competition. Let's not embarrass ourselves by pretending that mobile gaming is going to replace handheld gaming; people have been saying that for years and the 3DS' sales are just laughing in their face over it. There is still extremely strong demand for the 3DS, and the 3DS owes its success in a very large part to Pokemon. Moving the main series of Pokemon games to the Switch would kill the 3DS completely. There is no getting around that. The final death knell of the 3DS will be when the next core Pokemon games aren't on it; it's that simple. Nothing else should be taken as an indicator of when the handheld's life is at an end. And for Nintendo to move Pokemon off the 3DS and onto the Switch would completely fly in the face of everything they've been saying about supporting both at once.
    Guess we'll have to agree to disagree on some points there. (Not the mobile gaming one, I agree there, although I don't believe I mentioned mobile gaming). I also agree the 3DS has done very well and is still doing so, and as mentioned given the software sales projection for the next year I can easily see another 7th gen game happening.

    I also don't personally see Pokemon moving off the 3DS this generation. I'd be quite surprised if it even does a both-3DS-and-Switch title mid-gen. But I felt it was still worth mentioning the possibility, especially in the face of a certain rumour (which I may also have joked about :V).
    Quote:
    There is nothing there to indicate that the next generation will not also be on the 3DS, or the hypothetical successor to the 3DS previously speculated, if Nintendo can be taken at their word when they say that they will continue to support the 3DS. For once, there is more evidence to support the notion that they actually will this time, given the upcoming New 2DS XL and slew of games being announced for the handheld into 2018 at least.
    Hadn't the GB Micro been released as a sort of niche version of the GBA within a year of the Nintendo DS' release? May well be history repeating itself - Nintendo releasing a weird cheap model after the successor console. Granted, their intention now (and maybe then too!) may be a 'just in case the next one fails we keep with the current thing that works' with the n2DS XL release, but I an sceptical gen 8 will be on the 3DS. I see that happening if the Switch tanks, and early signs for it give cause for optimism.
    Quote:
    So one might argue that the requirement for evolution in the franchise to fit with the times demands a move to the Switch. Normally I would agree, but for the points I stated earlier regarding Nintendo's unquestioned domination over the handheld market, along with the evidence that suggests the 3DS will continue long into the future and may even receive a successor in some form. Pokemon can afford to evolve very little as a franchise - the gameplay is solid, it only needs tweaks from time-to-time, and small changes the fans can hype into oblivion even though it's basically the same thing as before - but it still needs to remain relevant and interesting, and retreads of the same content (outside of remakes for nostalgia purposes) just don't cut it in the gaming industry anymore. Three years is a long time now relatively speaking, too long to spend on a single generation, and with things like Yokai Watch being popular in Japan (albeit for a limited time) Pokemon might be the unquestioned ruler of its niche, but it is by no means unchallenged the way it used to be.
    I also disagree that 3 years is a long time for a generation, especially as it makes sense for tPC/Game Freak to reuse the same assets to a great extent of what is in the first pair of games for the generation, rather than redo everything - and make a region, Pokemon designs, etc. Sales of remakes and third versions/sequels have always done pretty well after all.
    Quote:
    There is literally zero evidence outside of that to support the theory, and a mountain of evidence - including statements from Nintendo themselves - to suggest that the 3DS (or at least its successor) will be the primary home for the core Pokemon games for at least another generation or two.
    A pessimistic view is that Nintendo won't want to tell investors they are giving up on the console that has done well until they are sure the new one (in this case the Switch) is well on its way to being the secure future for the company.
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    Old May 16th, 2017 (3:50 AM).
    Meyneth Meyneth is offline
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    Quote:
    Originally Posted by bobandbill View Post
    Guess we'll have to agree to disagree on some points there. (Not the mobile gaming one, I agree there, although I don't believe I mentioned mobile gaming). I also agree the 3DS has done very well and is still doing so, and as mentioned given the software sales projection for the next year I can easily see another 7th gen game happening.
    People often throw the "mobile gaming" thing whenever talk about the future of handhelds comes into play; call that a pre-emptive counter for anyone who might have, haha.

    The problem with using sales figures as a gauge for new releases is that Pokemon titles have always done well. X and Y didn't do terribly, but we never saw another new Gen VI title, instead being saddled with ORAS. I suppose that leaves the much desired DPPt remakes, but I'm very hesitant to trust in that being the next thing entirely, given that GF did a new game then a remake last generation and they've made a point of not repeating themselves since Gen V, so if they intend to keep shaking things up, we should see something else. I somehow doubt it'll be an entirely new game, even though that would be the next logical step if repetition of the past is out of the question.

    Maybe I'm putting too much thought into it. But people are always assuming GF will do the predictable thing - Pokemon Grey, Pokemon Z, or X2/Y2 - and it's just not happening. I can see another Gen VII game coming, but I wouldn't like to bet money on what form it would take.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by bobandbill View Post
    I also don't personally see Pokemon moving off the 3DS this generation. I'd be quite surprised if it even does a both-3DS-and-Switch title mid-gen. But I felt it was still worth mentioning the possibility, especially in the face of a certain rumour (which I may also have joked about :V).
    I wouldn't be too surprised, given the desperate need for Switch games. It always takes a year or two for any console to build up a library of games, but if a core Pokemon title was put on the Switch it would sell insane amounts...and reusing Sun and Moon's assets, whilst horrendously lazy and not even close to what the Switch is capable of, would serve as a good stop-gap, much as XY were a stopgap themselves for Sun and Moon, at least in terms of fully utilising the hardware.

    ...that said, given Nintendo's way with stock, I don't think they feel the urgency they should to get some noteworthy titles (that are not ports of past-generation games) on the Switch. The lack of a Virtual Console and the rather lackluster eShop suggests that their priorities are elsewhere for the moment as well.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by bobandbill View Post
    Hadn't the GB Micro been released as a sort of niche version of the GBA within a year of the Nintendo DS' release? May well be history repeating itself - Nintendo releasing a weird cheap model after the successor console. Granted, their intention now (and maybe then too!) may be a 'just in case the next one fails we keep with the current thing that works' with the n2DS XL release, but I an sceptical gen 8 will be on the 3DS. I see that happening if the Switch tanks, and early signs for it give cause for optimism.
    Possibly, but then why the talk of a successor to the 3DS? Granted it was only one incident, but Nintendo must recognise the need for a dedicated handheld system on the market still. They own the handheld market, or as good as. Conversely, they can barely make a dent in the console market - as well as the Switch is doing, I can't see it ever outstripping the PS4. Not with the way they release their major IPs, or manage their online store, or just in terms of hardware capability.

    That could be why they're covering themselves (if they are) with the 2DS, and doing their utmost to push the Switch's portable capabilities, but...I just can't see a handheld series making its way to a console. Even if you want to see the Switch as a hybrid, it's still got a console's potential, so any game on it is going to be expected to be of that kind of quality. There has been talk of a console core Pokemon game for ages, and I don't think Nintendo are any more willing to commit to a project of that scale now than they were back in the days of the Gamecube...or the N64, even. If Nintendo move Pokemon to the Switch, we're going to see longer development times for the games, and I'm not entirely sure they can afford to bring the series away from its (mostly) annual release pattern. Which would definitely happen if it made the jump to Switch. We'd be lucky to get a new game every three years.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by bobandbill View Post
    I also disagree that 3 years is a long time for a generation, especially as it makes sense for tPC/Game Freak to reuse the same assets to a great extent of what is in the first pair of games for the generation, rather than redo everything - and make a region, Pokemon designs, etc. Sales of remakes and third versions/sequels have always done pretty well after all.
    Perhaps, but they're running out of games to remake, unless they plan on going back to the beginning again. Strictly speaking Gen IV and V don't need remakes, since you can play them on 3DS consoles. That won't stop them in all probability, but if they stick to this pattern then Gen VIII would be the last set of remakes we'd get. What comes after that, I wonder?

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by bobandbill View Post
    A realistic view is that Nintendo won't want to tell investors they are giving up on the console that has done well until they are sure the new one (in this case the Switch) is well on its way to being the secure future for the company.
    Fixed it for ya. xD

    This does seem very likely; I'm just not entirely sure how likely, given that Nintendo gave up on the Wii U almost immediately. But then, the Wii U is not the 3DS, and the 3DS is massively successful and will continue to be so even though it's masively outdated hardware at this point. But then, how long will it take for the Switch to be enough of a success? We could easily see Generation VIII on the 3DS in that time frame, I think. Depending on the life cycle of Gen VII. But if Marshadow's reveal signifies an end to Gen VII, and Gen VIII is released next year, I can't see it being on the Switch. If a 3DS successor becomes a reality - which I think is very likely - I can't see the core games ever making it to the Switch at all.

    So many variables...
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    Old May 16th, 2017 (12:29 PM).
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    Damn, I never realized until now just how early Marshadow was announced so close to the release of the games. I'm not sure exactly what this means for Marshadow and what it has to do with future games, but I definitely have a feeling Necrozma will play an important role within the next game(s) whatever they may be.

    As we venture closer to E3 and further to the end of May, the chances of a new Pokémon being announced this year seems ever less likely considering how this is usually the prime time for an announcement of that kind. That's not to say we won't get an announcement later this year, but since we've never had a new Pokémon game announcement at E3, it may mean we'll have to wait a few months pushing a release back to the start of 2018 perhaps. Obviously, there's always the slim chance that Nintendo could surprise us and announce a new game at E3 which would be a show stealer for sure, but since it hasn't happened before, I can't see that being very likely.

    Personally I do think we'll hear of a new game this year, but whether it will be soon enough to be released within 2017 remains to be seen I guess.
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    Old May 16th, 2017 (12:47 PM).
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      We don't know if Marshadow is the last Event Pokemon or not, it is highly possible that we could be getting more in Stars. We we first got info about Stars, they also said there would be 20 new pokemon.

      I am expecting at least another Tapu pokemon, for multiple reasons that don't really belong here.

      We also have reason to believe that some things may have been removed from Stars because they didn't have enough room on the 3DS game card. They want to be surprising, one way to do that is adding new pokemon in the middle of a generation. They knew everything would be leaked, so they may have held off. Our Chinese Riddler was EXTREMELY accurate with everything other than a few pokemon who never came out, which took him by surprise as well.

      Until Sun and Moon, they came down hard on people who leaked info. But this time, they didn't try to prevent it.

      This is also why I think Diamond and Pearl remakes will come earlier than normal for the 3DS. It will give Switch some time to gain ground, and then Stars will come out on the Switch.


      At this point, we can't predict anything. They want to surprise us, so they will do something we never expect. Everyone thought Gen 6 was going to have a 6.5. You know Pokemon saw that. I wouldn't be surprised if they made it come true this time around.
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      Old June 18th, 2017 (8:30 PM).
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      What is certain is that if the next game will release this year rather than in 2018, time is running out for Nintendo and The Pokémon Company to announce it.
      well then, Marcin was right on the nose.
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      Old June 21st, 2017 (1:57 AM).
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        Since Marshadow is the last mythical, gen 8 would make sense.
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