4th Gen A quick ethics question or two...

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Exon

Hacker in Training
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    I plan to open up a wifi trading post soon. What I was wondering was the communities outlook on the ethics of certain things:

    1- Using masterballs (In other words, a buddy of mine with an AR let me get like a million of the things) to catch wild pokemon.

    2- Shiny pokemon created with RNG manipulation.

    So, your thoughts all?
     
    I'm pretty sure this forum doesn't allow hacked Pokemon. As for me, well, I'd say it's a bit of a rip-off.
     
    1. Not like you'll be using them on wi-fi, so meh.

    2. RNG manipulation seems hard. That payoff should be a reward. (Note that I haven't tried it myself though.)
     
    Make sure everyone you're trading to knows both of those things. Personally, I wouldn't consider either legit and thus they wouldn't be worth anything to me.

    RNG abuse isn't that hard.
     
    Myles said:
    Make sure everyone you're trading to knows both of those things. Personally, I wouldn't consider either legit and thus they wouldn't be worth anything to me.

    RNG abuse isn't that hard.
    Click to expand...


    While I wasn't going to post in here besides the op, I guess I am now.

    on 1- I understand how it isn't legit, but in the end, unless you're just unlucky or facing a pokemon w/ roar, aren't you going to get the exact same results as any other ball?

    on 2- In what ways is it considered illegitimate? We're taking a part of the game and using it to our advantage by putting in the time needed to do so. I guess I should have mentioned that I only do it for shinies, I don't abuse the RNG to the point of getting perfect IV's or natures. I still want to do some work lol. I'm not bashing your opinion by any means, I'm just wanting to understand it more so I'm better off in the long run.
     
    Exon said:
    While I wasn't going to post in here besides the op, I guess I am now.

    on 1- I understand how it isn't legit, but in the end, unless you're just unlucky or facing a pokemon w/ roar, aren't you going to get the exact same results as any other ball?

    on 2- In what ways is it considered illegitimate? We're taking a part of the game and using it to our advantage by putting in the time needed to do so. I guess I should have mentioned that I only do it for shinies, I don't abuse the RNG to the point of getting perfect IV's or natures. I still want to do some work lol. I'm not bashing your opinion by any means, I'm just wanting to understand it more so I'm better off in the long run.
    Click to expand...
    If there is a way to catch a Pokémon using a regular Ball and catching a shining without manipulation, I don't think the ones who cheat deserve to own a shining or a hard-to-catch Pokémon. If it was impossible like a Shaymin or Deoxys to me, it would be okay. But if you are looking for an easier way to do things, that laziness does not please me.

    But if you can find others who think the same way, go ahead! I love cheating, too! I just don't compete with hacked Pokémon. ;)
     
    ¡Laxbe! said:
    If there is a way to catch a Pokémon using a regular Ball and catching a shining without manipulation, I don't think the ones who cheat deserve to own a shining or a hard-to-catch Pokémon. If it was impossible like a Shaymin or Deoxys to me, it would be okay. But if you are looking for an easier way to do things, that laziness does not please me.

    But if you can find others who think the same way, go ahead! I love cheating, too! I just don't compete with hacked Pokémon. ;)
    Click to expand...

    Now I'm lost. The pokemon aren't hacked. RNG manipulation is just using a thorough understanding of the RNG of the game and having the patience to use it. I just use it for aesthetic reasons, shinies in this case, and don't bother with the IV's or natures, thus allowing there to still be work involved on my part.

    The balls, well, I knew that would be controversial, but the only big thing is does is shave a little time off the end.

    As for the whole, hacking thing in general, there is no re-programming of the game's code, nor are IV's, Natures, Moves, etc touched.
     
    I don't really see anything wrong with either of these two things: Masterballs doesn't really affect...anything, other than easier catching. RNGing is in the game, not hacking or cheating in any way. Using the game to your advantage is totally fine.
     
    So what? I use my action replay on my sapphire/leaf green to obtain certain pokemon, then migrate them over to platinum all the time! Why just the other day I gave myself a nice heracross with an adamant nature using an encounter code. And even a shiny slowking and politoed just for giggles!
    But if you want to open a wifi trading post, do it. If people don't agree with how you obtain them(as long as they aren't glitched), then they don't have to post. If they do, then they and their business should be welcomed.
     
    You're right, I didn't mean it. It really is not cheating... but in a competition it looks like it is. It's my opinion, of course.
    Panfisha said:
    But if you want to open a wifi trading post, do it. If people don't agree with how you obtain them(as long as they aren't glitched), then they don't have to post. If they do, then they and their business should be welcomed.
    Click to expand...
    Exactly. As I said, find others like you and have fun! =D
     
    Yeah, I will eventually get it up and running. HOWEVER, I think I'll seperate the shinies into random/radar'ed shinies, and RNG'ed shinies to welcome those of all opinions. Though, I am liking the discussion here lol, so anyone else is welcoming to continue.
     
    Exon said:
    on 1- I understand how it isn't legit, but in the end, unless you're just unlucky or facing a pokemon w/ roar, aren't you going to get the exact same results as any other ball?

    on 2- In what ways is it considered illegitimate? We're taking a part of the game and using it to our advantage by putting in the time needed to do so. I guess I should have mentioned that I only do it for shinies, I don't abuse the RNG to the point of getting perfect IV's or natures. I still want to do some work lol. I'm not bashing your opinion by any means, I'm just wanting to understand it more so I'm better off in the long run.
    Click to expand...

    1. Why tarnish an otherwise completely legit Pokemon?

    2. Abusing a RNG is something that's really not suppose to be done. You're essentially abusing a glitch. Glitch abused Pokemon are not legit. Catching shinies is very difficult, that's why people want them, they... don't look all that good otherwise. RNG abused Pokemon are only a little harder to get than normal Pokemon, essentially making them worse.

    Also. something like that could be called 'hacking' by someone if they want. 'Hacking' is to access a computer via unconventional means. RNG abuse certainly isn't conventional...
     
    I don't really find anything wrong with the Masterball part. Like almost everyone said, it's not really affecting the natures or stats or anything. It just saves you a lot of time.

    As for the RNG abuse, you're going to get different opinions from different people. I RNG myself, but only for shiny breeding. Put it into your OP that you do so and if people are fine with that, they will make an offer. If they are not, then they will just steer away from your thread. Either way, your thread will be active.
     
    As long as the pokemon themselves aren't hacked in any way (i.e. moves, natures,IVs, EVs etc.) then the masterballs are usually fine.But still tell people.

    As for RNG, everyone clever enough to do it does it. In places such as smogon, noone accepts anything but almost perfect pokemon (no IVs under 30 unless needed for a competitive set)
     
    As for the masterballs, you may want to not which ones you caught in a masterball in your thread. A lot of people won't accept normal pokemon in a masterball, because a lot of times they just assume they are hacks, or think they just look too much like hacks.

    Myles said:
    2. Abusing a RNG is something that's really not suppose to be done. You're essentially abusing a glitch. Glitch abused Pokemon are not legit. QUOTE]

    I disagree with this. If abusing a glitch means that a pokemon isn't legit, anyone who clones by the GTS glitch is guilty, too. Just because it's a glitch doesn't make in wrong; it's in the game's programming. But based on the response here, I think you're right to separate them in your thread.

    I can RNG breed shinies, but I don't do it very often because I prefer to chain. To be honest, it takes me about the same amount of time as an experienced chainer to catch a chained shiny as it does to RNG, and the RNG method definitely requires more attention, thought, and patience.
    Click to expand...
     
    Masterballs are fine, so long as it's within the game. No master balls should be involved with the metagame if they are hacked. Of course, purists would argue that hacking undermines the point of the game, but if it nets you more enjoyment to hack then go ahead.

    I believe RNG abuse is fine, especially for set legendaries. Again, it is best to tell people about it if you will use it in the metagame so as not to offend purists, but like in first gen where 'M evolved into flying Kangaskhan, glitches certainly make the game more interesting (especially if they have no major effect on plot).

    This is all IMO; and as you can probably tell, I am not a purist.
     
    Okay... What is "RNG-ing"? I'm not fond of Master Balls unless you earn them. That's what Master Balls are there for... You either find one or you win some at a Game Corner that has one depending on the Pokemon game you're playing.

    For me Action Replay is completely out of the question for shiny Pokemon or infinite items although, I'm in a gray area when it comes to attaining Legendary Pokemon you can only get in events (not everybody can get to an event because of geography or financial situation). I'm totally for catching shiny Legendary Pokemon through "soft reset" though since no foreign programs or utilities like Action Replay are being used for their acquisition. Right now I'm in the grueling process of trying to catch a shiny black Rayquaza in my Emerald version. It's taking forever but I'm dead set on a result. I don't plan on trading it off and it will be part of my "PvP" team as well as EV trained. Look forward to facing it's wrath!! I hope this helped you in some way!


    -Lorenzo
     
    'RNG-ing' is manipulating the game's RNG (random number generator) into producing beneficial random numbers (for example, to encounter a shiny Pokémon). The RNG is a part of the game that runs whenever you do something 'random' such as find a wild Pokémon; however, in the end, it's just a mathematical formula. If you know how it works, you can do certain in-game things in order to advance it to any number you want. It involves no external devices such as cheat cartridges whatsoever; however, many people consider it cheating, as it wasn't intended by Game Freak.

    You may want to use it in order to help you get a shiny Rayquaza. As you're using Emerald, if you have a bad trainer and secret ID combo, you may never find a shiny Rayquaza by simply SRing (Emerald's RNG is bugged; most people are unable to find a shiny in it by SRing blindly). However, you'll need your secret ID, which can only be found if you have already caught (not bred) a shiny in that game, or by cheating.

    Anyway, personally, I wouldn't mind trading for either of the two, as long as I knew what was involved.
     
    some hack pokemon are considered legit because of stats.
     
    Deftestblowfish said:
    some hack pokemon are considered legit because of stats.
    Click to expand...

    Well the stats can be legit, but it is still a hacked pokémon defined in many different ways. :[ For example, the stats can be the same as it should be, but the Original Trainer is different and maybe it has a different moveset with moves it can't possibly have. There are a lot of things one should check in order to see if legit or not.

    @ Exon, you can go ahead and set up the Trade thread, but I would go ahead and thoroughly read the rules before...just to make sure everything is okay. d("d)
     
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