Abortion.

[Dakotah]

Yes, but saying "the pro-life crowd, which is undeniably anti-contraception and anti-abortion" is also not true.

There's some definite overlap as you pointed out. But, I don't think you can say that to be pro-life also undeniably also makes you anti-contraception. That's not true at all.

Unless those who are anti-abortion view contraceptives (like the pill and the morning after pill) as methods of abortion. Remember, most who are against abortion view a fertilized egg as a human being. So anything that prevents that egg from developing until a child is eventually born, in their eyes, constitutes murder. The pill and the morning after pill, and the IUD do just that. The prevent a fertilized egg from attaching (or remaining attached) to the womb.

From the anecdotal evidence that's been present thus far, it seems that an ever increasing number of organizations and interest groups are taking just such a position.

Or as Live_Wire correctly points out:

In the context of American political culture, those who ideologically oppose abortion also tend to oppose contraception.

 

[Mr. X]

I tend to laugh at all the religious people who are against contraception.

As I tell them, if God was able to wave his hand and make Mary pregnant with Jesus, then he should easily be able to make those contraceptives not work.

Basically, without the humor, if god exists and really wants a woman to get pregnant then nothing we mortals do will be able to prevent that.

 

[Gothitelle.]

I'm personally against abortion even in cases of rape. It's mostly because I l belive everyone has a right to live and just because you were a product of rape doesn't mean they can't live.

 

[Esper]

I'm personally against abortion even in cases of rape. It's mostly because I l belive everyone has a right to live and just because you were a product of rape doesn't mean they can't live.

Ideally, anyone raped would be able to get the morning after pill right away and so you wouldn't need to worry about those particular circumstances coming up. Actually, ideally no one would be raped in the first place. :x

That aside, what would you say to a woman who was raped and wanted to have an abortion because she didn't want to carry a rapist's child to term?

 

[Dakotah]

I'm personally against abortion even in cases of rape. It's mostly because I l belive everyone has a right to live and just because you were a product of rape doesn't mean they can't live.

What penalty would you assign to any woman who couldn't bear to carry to term the embryo growing inside her, knowing that every day for the next 273 or so days, her pregnancy is a constant reminder of the violence that was done to her? What would you do to her to make her suffer even more than she already is? I'd really love to know.

 

[-ty-]

If any woman who is raped decides to go through with the pregnancy, she deserves major kuddos. However, no raped woman should be forced to undergo a pregnancy under these circumstances, unless of course the pregnancy is into the third trimester.

 

[Gothitelle.]

That aside, what would you say to a woman who was raped and wanted to have an abortion because she didn't want to carry a rapist's child to term?

This is a hard one. I would say to her that tho the child was a product of what was done to you, that child can grow to be something amazing if you give him/her a chance. You don't have to raise him/her, you can always give him/her up for adoption. That way, it relieves you of the pain and it gives the child the make something of him or herself.

 

[LouBeatYou]

Abortion is murdering babies...if someone has sex and gets pregnant then they should've thought of that before. So no,I Don't think it's acceptable to murder babies.
EDIT:
In rape cases,I still don't think they should. Just give it up for adoption rather than killing it <_<

Imagine a rape victim has some sort of STD that is extremely debilitating, and can be passed onto a newborn child. They are raped, and have the child. Doesn't that make a child's life worse? I think abortion is a choice and rape victims and the like should most definitely have a choice in having a baby with an unknown father.

 

[Dakotah]

This is a hard one. I would say to her that tho the child was a product of what was done to you, that child can grow to be something amazing if you give him/her a chance. You don't have to raise him/her, you can always give him/her up for adoption. That way, it relieves you of the pain and it gives the child the make something of him or herself.

So the woman should still be forced to endure the pain for the next 273 days? Not many could do that. They would either find a way to abort the child, or in some cases, would seek suicide.

And what happens to that child when it grows up and attempts to find its mother? There would be two people in pain then, because the mother would once again be forced to visit that horrible day, and the child would learn the awful truth that they were truly unwanted. That there would probably be no relationship between them as the child would be a constant reminder of the pain she would still carry with her.

No, in the end this is the woman's body we're talking about. And as a male, I have no place to tell any woman what she can or cannot do. Males should just butt out.

 

[Gothitelle.]

So the woman should still be forced to endure the pain for the next 273 days? Not many could do that. They would either find a way to abort the child, or in some cases, would seek suicide.

And what happens to that child when it grows up and attempts to find its mother? There would be two people in pain then, because the mother would once again be forced to visit that horrible day, and the child would learn the awful truth that they were truly unwanted. That there would probably be no relationship between them as the child would be a constant reminder of the pain she would still carry with her.

No, in the end this is the woman's body we're talking about. And as a male, I have no place to tell any woman what she can or cannot do. Males should just butt out.

It's true that feeling unwanted is a terrible feeling, however if they get adopted by people who want and love them ....

I understand how you feel and everything, but regardless of gender, everyone has a right to an opinion.

 

[Dakotah]

It's true that feeling unwanted is a terrible feeling, however if they get adopted by people who want and love them ....

Then nothing. Rejection is a powerful thing, regardless of its source. Just because the person is loved by the adoptive parents, it does not negate the pain of rejection that that person will experience.

Let me put it in another way. When I was 14, I fell in love with this boy from school. He was the most amazing person I had ever met (up to that point). Where others wouldn't give me the time of day because they were more interested in sports, or in girls, or cars, or whatever, Oliver would always take the time to spend time with me.

He never knew the love I felt for him, because I never told him. I was afraid I would lose him if I did.

But then one day, as I was waiting for him to cross the street, a car came racing through the intersection where he was crossing, ignoring the crossing guard's stop sign and hitting him and throwing him several feet into the air. He landed in a heap, not moving, with blood pooling around him.

I lost the first person I ever loved that day, and without him ever knowing how much he meant to me.

After all these years, I still love him. And the hurt of his loss is still with me to this day.

But even though I had others around me who loved me, including my parents, my brother, and my other friends, none of their concern could bring him back. They could not make it so the car never hit him. My Oliver was dead and the loss I experienced that day could never be erased. Their love for me provided comfort and enabled me to cope, but only time would heal the wound in my heart.

I took that loss as a lesson to never again hide who I was to anyone ever again. If I was going to love and be loved, it wouldn't be a hidden love. I was going to love proudly and openly. I made a promise to myself, to never again hide from others what I felt.

I told you this to show you that even though a child's adoptive parents will give that child love, their love can only help to enable the child to cope with his or her loss. The pain of rejection, however, will remain. Only time would heal that wound.

I understand how you feel and everything, but regardless of gender, everyone has a right to an opinion.

Of course you do. However, you don't have the right to force your beliefs on others, and that is what I was saying. When it comes to the decisions a person makes about their bodies, the opinions of others means squat. I would not presume to tell a woman what she can or cannot do with her body. Should I do that, however, I fully expect to receive a very hard slap across my face, and rightly so.

 

[Mr. X]

I'm personally against abortion even in cases of rape. It's mostly because I l belive everyone has a right to live and just because you were a product of rape doesn't mean they can't live.

It's easy for you to say that now because right now that person isn't you.

Ask yourself this. Would you carry the child until it is born if it was a product of rape? Do you think that you would be able to withstand the constant reminder of that event? And lastly, think of the child. Imagine just how the child will feel and be treated because he/she is a rape baby.

 

[Reck]

It's easy for you to say that now because right now that person isn't you.

Ask yourself this. Would you carry the child until it is born if it was a product of rape? Do you think that you would be able to withstand the constant reminder of that event? And lastly, think of the child. Imagine just how the child will feel and be treated because he/she is a rape baby.

Why not put the child up for adoption and at least give it a chance? How would you feel if your parents had aborted you? Wait, you couldn't feel anything because you wouldn't exist. Both sides can be argued effectively.

Now, before I continue I would like to say that I am an atheist and not someone who believes in the conventional "sanctity of life" stuff. However, life is a definitely a VERY valuable asset. I believe this even more so as an atheist because I don't think that there is an afterlife, so, essentially, I feel that this life is all that I have.

On to the point now. I personally believe that abortion is wrong on the basis that everything deserves a chance to live; however, I cannot justify forcing someone to be Pro-life.

Here's some food for thought:

A doctor walks into a patients room.
Doctor: "I have some great news for you Mrs. Jones! You're going to have another baby."
Woman: "But, I just had James a few months ago. I think the children will be to close together don't you?"
D: "I'm sure it will be fine."
W: "I really don't want them this close together though... I think that an abortion may be the best option."

The doctor is infuriated by this statement.

D: "I think there may be a better option actually. However, I do see your point that they will be to close together."
W: "Really?! What is it?"
D: "Why don't we just kill the baby that has already been born, that way we don't have to worry about the abortion costs."
W: "What!! Are you insane?! That's murder!"
D: "Well, you were perfectly okay with murdering the child that has yet to be born, whats the difference?"

The woman was speechless because she had never thought about it in that mind set before.

 

[Lerroux]

Why not put the child up for adoption and at least give it a chance? How would you feel if your parents had aborted you? Wait, you couldn't feel anything because you wouldn't exist. Both sides can be argued effectively.

Now, before I continue I would like to say that I am an atheist and not someone who believes in the conventional "sanctity of life" stuff. However, life is a definitely a VERY valuable asset. I believe this even more so as an atheist because I don't think that there is an afterlife, so, essentially, I feel that this life is all that I have.

On to the point now. I personally believe that abortion is wrong on the basis that everything deserves a chance to live; however, I cannot justify forcing someone to be Pro-life.

Here's some food for thought:

A doctor walks into a patients room.
Doctor: "I have some great news for you Mrs. Jones! You're going to have another baby."
Woman: "But, I just had James a few months ago. I think the children will be to close together don't you?"
D: "I'm sure it will be fine."
W: "I really don't want them this close together though... I think that an abortion may be the best option."

The doctor is infuriated by this statement.

D: "I think there may be a better option actually. However, I do see your point that they will be to close together."
W: "Really?! What is it?"
D: "Why don't we just kill the baby that has already been born, that way we don't have to worry about the abortion costs."
W: "What!! Are you insane?! That's murder!"
D: "Well, you were perfectly okay with murdering the child that has yet to be born, whats the difference?"

The woman was speechless because she had never thought about it in that mind set before.

A Blastocyst 1/100th of an inch wide, inviisible to the naked eye, is not a human being and should not be referred to as such.

 

[Oryx]

Tbh I'm sure she had. For 90% of people, especially people that have had a child in the past and have normal moral compasses, abortion isn't an easy decision to make and can have lasting effects on a woman's psyche. Not a "hey you're pregnant" "okay lemme get an abortion lol" kind of thing. Please don't reduce the decision a woman makes to a hypothetical woman with such a warped sense of right and wrong.

 

[Reck]

A Blastocyst 1/100th of an inch wide, inviisible to the naked eye, is not a human being and should not be referred to as such.

Really? The average baby is a aborted at 8-12 weeks, during that stage of development the baby is anywhere from 0.7 inches to 2.13 inches in length. Which I dare say anyone with a decent sense of sight could, in fact, see very clearly. Again I can't justify forcing someone to make a decision I agree with, and don't really care whether or not they do.

Tbh I'm sure she had. For 90% of people, especially people that have had a child in the past and have normal moral compasses, abortion isn't an easy decision to make and can have lasting effects on a woman's psyche. Not a "hey you're pregnant" "okay lemme get an abortion lol" kind of thing. Please don't reduce the decision a woman makes to a hypothetical woman with such a warped sense of right and wrong.

It was just a story that I read somewhere that I thought presented an interesting point. As I said morally it is wrong; however, I could not possibly justify saying that she couldn't have an abortion as it is, indeed, her decision.

 

[Oryx]

Counter-story:

A man goes to sleep one day and wakes up with another man hooked to him, in a hospital. The doctors tell him that if he unhooks the man, the man will die and there's no other alternative. The entire time the man is hooked to him (let's make it for 9 months), the man has to alter his actions to make sure that he doesn't harm the man attached to him. Should that man be required to keep the other man attached to him?

In addition, if you don't donate your organs upon your death it's almost guaranteed that someone will have needed that organ and will die because you didn't provide it. Should you be required to donate your organs after your death because of that?

 

[Reck]

Counter-story:

A man goes to sleep one day and wakes up with another man hooked to him, in a hospital. The doctors tell him that if he unhooks the man, the man will die and there's no other alternative. The entire time the man is hooked to him (let's make it for 9 months), the man has to alter his actions to make sure that he doesn't harm the man attached to him. Should that man be required to keep the other man attached to him?

In addition, if you don't donate your organs upon your death it's almost guaranteed that someone will have needed that organ and will die because you didn't provide it. Should you be required to donate your organs after your death because of that?

So many things can efficiently be argued from both stand points. As for the first story, its not even a realistic scenario that could happen unless, somehow, they were sharing a vital organ which could really only, realistically, be caused by a birth defect. The second one is indirectly causing the death of someone, where-as abortion is a direct cause of death. What exactly is the point of not donating your organs anyway? Are you going to be using them in your casket or something?

As I've said in all my previous posts I CANNOT politically nor socially justify preventing a woman from having an abortion, nor would I if I could. I believe it is up to the woman and the man who would be the mother and father of the baby to make the choice. I just think that other avenues are available that should be taken into consideration. You agree with me on that much, yes?

 

[jpp8]

Why not put the child up for adoption and at least give it a chance? How would you feel if your parents had aborted you? Wait, you couldn't feel anything because you wouldn't exist. Both sides can be argued effectively.

Adoption is not an alternative to pregnancy, it's an alternative to parenthood. Our orphanages are already full of unwanted and orphaned children. Like hundreds of millions of children all over the world. Out of those, only hundreds of thousands get adopted annually. Essentially, out of every 1000 orphaned children, only 1 gets adopted. Adoption is only an alternative to parenthood and a faulty one at that.

As for whether my mom aborted me or not, if my mother didn't want me at that time, then it's her own choice what to do with her own body. My mother's course in life is hers to choose on her own, and if I wasn't a part of that plan, then so be it. I'd much rather my mother be happy in life than to force her to have me. It just so happened that my mother wanted me and that was her CHOICE. No being is ever entitled to have control over another person's body. I can't force my family or anyone else to donate organs to save my life. They can't do the same.

 

[Mr. X]

I agree with Jpp8. We don't need more orphaned/unwanted children

But I do think that the 'organ donor' program is a sack of crap. Your dead, you don't need organs. And unless your family plans on preserving them and hanging them from the wall, I don't think that they have any need for your organs either.