5th Gen Alternate kyurem forme and signature moves speculation

[wombateiro]

We do get dynamic music when Pokemon's health gets low, and there is one Pokemon who changes form due to an ability. If Kyurem doesn't form change due to an ability, then when its Health drops, it may change its image into the Overdrive modes.

As I posted before I think Overdrive will be activated when HP is lowered.
Normal Kyurem changing into Black/White Kyurem should be something solid, not only in-battle effect like Overdrive mode.

 

[Xander Olivieri]

As I posted before I think Overdrive will be activated when HP is lowered.
Normal Kyurem changing into Black/White Kyurem should be something solid, not only in-battle effect like Overdrive mode.

Seeing as it only seemed to switch into Black Kyurem and White Kyurem while it was fighting, It could be battle forms only. Its only shown in its forms when enraged and attacking something, namely Ash and Co. or the Muskedeers.

 

[wombateiro]

Kyurem is enraged all the time in those trailers, not only after switching forms. If Kyurem would be really able to freely switch to Black or White form when it wants, why there are two different sequels to B/W? It seems that in Black 2 Kyurem will be able to switch only to Black Kyurem after fusion with Zekrom's energy and in White 2 only to White Kyurem after fusion with Reshiram's energy. And it's almost certain that those form changes WON'T be only in-battle because they are MASCOTS and mascots are never only in-battle forms.

 

[Xander Olivieri]

Kyurem is enraged all the time in those trailers, not only after switching forms. If Kyurem would be really able to freely switch to Black or White form when it wants, why there are two different sequels to B/W? It seems that in Black 2 Kyurem will be able to switch only to Black Kyurem after fusion with Zekrom's energy and in White 2 only to White Kyurem after fusion with Reshiram's energy. And it's almost certain that those form changes WON'T be only in-battle because they are MASCOTS and mascots are never only in-battle forms.

The only other Mascot that could switch forms was also limited to one of its forms until it had a Held Item or had to be in a specific world. All Form Changes except for 1 or 2 is tied to requiring an item for it to be permanent.

Seeing as in the movie Kyurem can freely switch between them, I doubt an item is required. There can be an item like Rotom's or Shaymin's or a hold item like Giratina's, but based solely on what has been said and shown, Kyurem can freely switch. Again, Movie said Kyurem already has their powers. It got them at its birth.

Kyurem seems fairly calm at times in its normal form it even speaks calmly to the trainers in one part of the trailer. Just because its chasing/attacking doesn't mean its enraged. Then it is shown howling and rage blasting them in its White and Black forms.

As for two different Sequels? Because they wanted to change things up. Kyurem getting two forms is more because we got two Sequels rather we got two sequels because Kyurem got two forms. Kyurem didn't even have to be the mascot if they didn't want it to be, we could have had a completely different game.

All the info will be shown on April 15th anyway. We'll know what plans Gamefreak have then, Item, Ability, or inbred effect.

 

[wombateiro]

As for two different Sequels? Because they wanted to change things up. Kyurem getting two forms is more because we got two Sequels rather we got two sequels because Kyurem got two forms. Kyurem didn't even have to be the mascot if they didn't want it to be, we could have had a completely different game.

There are two sequels because there are two forms. It's indicating that one form will be exclusive for one sequel. It leads to conclusion that Kyurem can't change freely between forms because it would disturb each form exclusiveness in the B2 or W2. I think in B2/W2 N's Zekrom/Reshiram will return to Unova and somehow will get involved into Kyurem's form change by having energy absorbed by Kyurem.

Seeing as in the movie Kyurem can freely switch between them, I doubt an item is required. There can be an item like Rotom's or Shaymin's or a hold item like Giratina's, but based solely on what has been said and shown, Kyurem can freely switch. Again, Movie said Kyurem already has their powers. It got them at its birth.

Trailer doesn't show how Kyurem is changing forms. There is no sight in trailer it can change forms freely, I would say it's even negated because on that first trailer's picture it looks like Kyurem is absorbing energy from one dragon at one time. I think the same absorption will happen in B2 and W2 storylines, proving that Kyurem can't change form freely and it needs Zekrom's or Reshiram's energy to do that.

In the first shot, we see energy from Reshiram and Zekrom being absorbed by Kyurem. According to the biography section on the website, Kyurem, with Reshiram and Zekrom's genes, becomes Black Kyurem or White Kyurem (thanks goes to Tensho from our forums for the translation).

Kyurem: The strongest Dragon-type Pokemon, its power is on par with Reshiram and Zekrom. Carrying the strongest heredity, it was born at the same time as Zekrom and Reshiram. It can change into Black and White Kyurem. Extreme cold radiates from its body.

It doesn't say Kyurem got their powers at birth. It only says that Kyurem is carrying the strongest heredity which probably means it can switch form but only after absorbing genes from Zekrom or Reshiram or their items or attacks, not freely.

 

[voicerocker]

We can't really compare the Kyurem from the games with the Kyurem from the movie. The anime doesn't always follow the same rules as the games. Just look at how Deoxys changes formes in both of them. In the anime, Deoxys can change freely, while in the games, it originally depended on the game it was on. Now, you need to interact with meteorites to change its forme. Just because Kyurem appears to be able to change formes at will in the movie, doesn't mean the same will happen in the game.

Also, I don't think that we got 2 games because there were 2 formes, nor do I think that we got 2 formes because we there were 2 games. I believe Game Freak planned this all along, introducing 2 new formes for a Pokemon in 2 sequels. 1 isn't a result of the other.

As for the name of the attacks they are "Fusion" because like the Oath attacks, the two attacks can "Fuse" in a sense. If one is used before the other, the Second attack grows in power and changes animation. Their original name is "Cross".

I was wondering if someone was going to point this out! I couldn't remember what the original names were, but I knew they weren't "Fusion".

Lol, how can you imagine tubes coming out and hiding in the sprite loop? That would look ridiculous. More of that they don't have those tubes in movie trailer, so it's clear that this time it's real Overdrive mode, not just sprite animation.

I don't think that would look so ridiculous. Darumaka's animation shows it pulling its arms and legs back into its body and appear to fall asleep for a second. Look close at the original pictures of the "overdrives". Other than the tubes and glowing, what is different? Nothing else. They are still bascially Black Kyurem and White Kyurem, not a new forme. Here's both pictures:

See? Same formes, even pretty much the same art, just upgraded a bit. We can't compare this to the Shadow Pokemon because they didn't physically change and the "high pitch" of emotion was triggered randomly. Also, Darmanitan's Zen Mode is also a forme change, so we can't compare that either. Zen Mode is triggered through loss of HP, not emotional stress, and actually looks physically weaker. But these "overdrives" look very powerful, so it wouldn't make sense for a Pokemon to appear its most powerful when it is close to defeat. Emotion isn't a stat, and one could also say that simply being in a Pokemon battle is enough to trigger intense emotions in a Pokemon. (see Reshiram's and Zekrom's overdrives)

I still say that this will probably just be part of the sprite animation. Until further info comes out, this makes the most sense.

It seems that in Black 2 Kyurem will be able to switch only to Black Kyurem after fusion with Zekrom's energy and in White 2 only to White Kyurem after fusion with Reshiram's energy. And it's almost certain that those form changes WON'T be only in-battle because they are MASCOTS and mascots are never only in-battle forms.

I agree with you. It would make little sense to have 2 different formes of the same Pokemon as the mascots of the games if both formes are available in each game. I think the formes will be version exclusive, or at least the method of obtaining the formes will be.

Seeing as in the movie Kyurem can freely switch between them, I doubt an item is required. There can be an item like Rotom's or Shaymin's or a hold item like Giratina's, but based solely on what has been said and shown, Kyurem can freely switch. Again, Movie said Kyurem already has their powers. It got them at its birth.

Again, we can't always compare the anime to the game. Personally, I feel like the formes will simply be unable to be changed once you obtain Black/White Kyurem since they are supposed to be "separate Pokemon". (However, Shaymin used the Gracidea Flower in both the anime and game, so an item might be possible.)

But I have to disagree with the "had the powers at birth" thing, in a way. Kyurem are supposed to be able to absorb the powers/genes of the other dragons, so in theory, it could have possessed this ability since its birth. But I don't think that means it was born with the other dragons' powers already available to it without needing to absorb them. I guess what I'm saying is that Kyurem isn't born with Reshiram's and Zekrom's powers, but it's born with the ability to absorb their energy. (same difference, maybe?)

 

[wombateiro]

I don't think that would look so ridiculous. Darumaka's animation shows it pulling its arms and legs back into its body and appear to fall asleep for a second. Look close at the original pictures of the "overdrives". Other than the tubes and glowing, what is different? Nothing else. They are still bascially Black Kyurem and White Kyurem, not a new forme. Here's both pictures:

See? Same formes, even pretty much the same art, just upgraded a bit. We can't compare this to the Shadow Pokemon because they didn't physically change and the "high pitch" of emotion was triggered randomly. Also, Darmanitan's Zen Mode is also a forme change, so we can't compare that either. Zen Mode is triggered through loss of HP, not emotional stress, and actually looks physically weaker. But these "overdrives" look very powerful, so it wouldn't make sense for a Pokemon to appear its most powerful when it is close to defeat. Emotion isn't a stat, and one could also say that simply being in a Pokemon battle is enough to trigger intense emotions in a Pokemon. (see Reshiram's and Zekrom's overdrives)

I still say that this will probably just be part of the sprite animation. Until further info comes out, this makes the most sense.

I meant that having those tubes coming out and hiding all the time in battle would be ridiculous and annoying. If Overdrive mode is again only animation I think it would be the best if those tubes would be triggered in one intro animation after sending Black/White Kyurem to battle and later there should be just glowing.

 

[voicerocker]

I meant that having those tubes coming out and hiding all the time in battle would be ridiculous and annoying. If Overdrive mode is again only animation I think it would be the best if those tubes would be triggered in one intro animation after sending Black/White Kyurem to battle and later there should be just glowing.

All of the Pokemon have 1 animation that loops throughout every battle. I don't think they are going to make 2 sets of animations just because of few people don't think the tubes should be seen the whole time.

But the tubes probably represent the fact that Kyurem is feeding off of another Pokemon's energy to make itself more powerful. (The tubes come from the tails and connect to its back, and since the tail is considered the source of power, having the tubes connect throughout the battle shows that Kyurem isn't obtaining its "overdrive" on its own, like Reshiram and Zekrom can.)

 

[wombateiro]

All of the Pokemon have 1 animation that loops throughout every battle. I don't think they are going to make 2 sets of animations just because of few people don't think the tubes should be seen the whole time.

Read carefully, please. It's not the problem of seeing tubes all the time but the problem of having them disappearing and appearing all the time. That would be weird for those tubes to be constantly doing that.

Those intro animations would be another feature missing in B/W, probably removed to be re-added in B2/W2. If Zekrom's and Reshiram's Overdrives made use of animated sprites, Black and White Kyurems' Overdrives could made use of intro animations by growing tubes from body during intro animation and keeping them visible for the rest of the time.

 

[voicerocker]

Read carefully, please. It's not the problem of seeing tubes all the time but the problem of having them disappearing and appearing all the time. That would be weird for those tubes to be constantly doing that.

Those intro animations would be another feature missing in B/W, probably removed to be re-added in B2/W2. If Zekrom's and Reshiram's Overdrives made use of animated sprites, Black and White Kyurems' Overdrives could made use of intro animations by growing tubes from body during intro animation and keeping them visible for the rest of the time.

I knew what you meant, but that would still upset the animation loop. You're assuming that the tubes appearing and disappearing will be annoying when we haven't even seen it yet.

I don't understand your concept of "missing features". I see little purpose for an initial animation other than to take up space for programming that could be used for other purposes. Chances are they will do the exact same thing as Reshiram and Zekrom. When you send out Black/White Kyurem, it will probably appear at first in its normal form, then as the animation progresses, the tubes will come from its tail and connect to its back, triggering the overdrive for a few seconds before reverting back to normal...just like Reshiram and Zekrom. It probably won't seem so annoying to you once we are able to see it, if it actually happens that way.

 

[649]

Guys heres an alternate (and slightly implausible) take.

What if the new forms don't arise from kyurem, but from reshiram and zekrom instead?

Think of it as Kyurem taking over the r@ms' bodies, and using that body to become more powerful. Also, it'd get the new moves this way, while using the r@ms' movesets.

I know it probably won't happen but it's an interesting idea.

 

[Xander Olivieri]

Guys heres an alternate (and slightly implausible) take.

What if the new forms don't arise from kyurem, but from reshiram and zekrom instead?

Think of it as Kyurem taking over the r@ms' bodies, and using that body to become more powerful. Also, it'd get the new moves this way, while using the r@ms' movesets.

I know it probably won't happen but it's an interesting idea.

Movie already shows that Kyurem is the one that does the switching, Reshiram and Zekrom aren't needed to physically be there. Movies tend to hint how the legend's Form changes work (Shaymin switching when its near a Gracidea and Giratina switching between worlds) Game wise we get an additional method (Giratina gets the Griseous Orb which is from the Distortion world).

Kyurem is either going to be able to flip or have an outside item like how Deoxys needs the Meteorites. (Although before the Meteorites came to be Deoxys could only switch when traded to a different Game, Normal in R/S, Attack in Fire Red, Defense Leaf Green, and Speed Emerald.)

Since Kyurem's forms are similar to Deoxys so far, its most likely a free switch while in the respective game, if they don't bring forth an item in April.

 

[Anako]

Current form of Kyurem is based on Wuji – the state state of harmony and balance. It is limitless and infinite. That's why I think N's and Ghetsis' last name is Harmonia, because it relates to harmony of Wuji and Kyurem.

Chinese wuji 無極 "limitless; infinite" is a compound of wu 無 "without; no; not have; there is not; nothing, nothingness"

There is no harmony in Wuji since it's a void of nothingess; It's literally nothing. Wuji stays at dormancy (meaning at rest; which may explain why Kyurem is waiting at the cave and hasn't been active until possibly Reshiram and Zekrom became active. This may also explain B2/W2's formes) until it becomes Yin and Yang; then it becomes balanced and harmonious.

You can take Kyurem's typing for example; It's Ice type. Coldness often corresponds to voidness and nothingness in symbolism. You can see this symbolism in many movies. Specifically, there's a Independent movie on YouTube (called "The Big Empty") that uses this idea (in a strange way but philosophical way).

 

[wombateiro]

There is no harmony in Wuji since it's a void of nothingess; It's literally nothing. Wuji stays at dormancy (meaning at rest; which may explain why Kyurem is waiting at the cave and hasn't been active until possibly Reshiram and Zekrom became active. This may also explain B2/W2's formes) until it becomes Yin and Yang; then it becomes balanced and harmonious.

You can take Kyurem's typing for example; It's Ice type. Coldness often corresponds to voidness and nothingness in symbolism. You can see this symbolism in many movies. Specifically, there's a Independent movie on YouTube (called "The Big Empty") that uses this idea (in a strange way but philosophical way).

You're not exactly right.

In Taoism and Chinese culture, the term wuji (pronounced "woo-zhee") means a state of harmony and balance -- emptiness, stillness and peace. It is limitless, infinite. It is when everything begins moving and you lose balance that you also lose wuji. In the Taoist view of the universe, if we were to look at it from a modern scientific view, the universe was in a state of wuji just before the Big Bang. There was a state of perfect peace and then all hell broke loose. Things separated into yin and yang.

In Taoism perfect harmony exists only when there is nothing. That "nothing" is the concept of original wuji Kyurem. We know that wuji Kyurem separated into Zekrom and Reshiram which is exactly the same like wuji separated into yin and yang.

In Tai Chi, the goal is to maintain a sort of wuji -- balance and harmony; to remain centered. When someone attacks, and you must adapt and change to accept this person's force, your goal is to return to wuji -- the state of balance you were in before the attack.

I think that new Kyurem forms are based on Tai Chi because they are mixes of wuji and yin or yang. They have power of yin (Zekrom) or yang (Reshiram) but remain balanced because of partially being wuji (original Kyurem).

I posted long time ago that I thought new Kyurem form will be based on Tai Chi. It looks like I was right about that but my mistake was that I thought there will be only one new form.

Quotes are from this page: https://internalarts.typepad.com/ke...4/wuji-an-important-principle-of-tai-chi.html

 

[voicerocker]

We know that wuji Kyurem separated into Zekrom and Reshiram which is exactly the same like wuji separated into yin and yang.

That has not been proven yet. However, while each dragon could very well represent these concepts, Kyurem has no known biological relation with Reshiram and Zekrom. The only sign of a relationship is Kyurem's forme changes to take on characteristics of 1 of the other dragons, but that still does not mean they were all originally 1 dragon.

EDIT: Just saw this on Serebii.net! Kyurem's Formes will remain Dragon/Ice-type.

https://www.serebii.net/index2.shtml

 

[Anako]

That has not been proven yet. However, while each dragon could very well represent these concepts, Kyurem has no known biological relation with Reshiram and Zekrom. The only sign of a relationship is Kyurem's forme changes to take on characteristics of 1 of the other dragons, but that still does not mean they were all originally 1 dragon.

EDIT: Just saw this on Serebii.net! Kyurem's Formes will remain Dragon/Ice-type.

Yeah, I was kind of surprised when I saw that. Then again they can't add three types to a Pokemon so it either had to be Ice/Dragon, Ice/Fire and Ice/Electric, or Dragon/Fire and Dragon/Electric.

 

[OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire]

^ Maybe they will change the typings for the forme next generation like they did with Rotom...though I don't see why they didn't now...Maybe they will have Resh and Zek's signature moves.

 

[wombateiro]

I thought earlier they will remain dragon/ice because dragon is their main type and they are still partially wuji Kyurem - ice typing symbolizes wuji.
They will probably have abilities to boost their electric/fire attacks, to boost their yin or yang energy from Zekrom or Reshiram.

 

[voicerocker]

Yeah, I was kind of surprised when I saw that. Then again they can't add three types to a Pokemon.

I think the typing just shows it's still Kyurem and not a fusion as some people thought. At least we can move past the "Pokemon fusion" theory, I hope.

^ Maybe they will change the typings for the forme next generation like they did with Rotom...though I don't see why they didn't now...Maybe they will have Resh and Zek's signature moves.

Why would they need to change the types? Rotom's type was changed because they felt it made more sense for it to keep its Electric-type versus still being a Ghost after it possesses an object. Makes sense enough.

Kyurem's types were just revealed yesterday. I doubt they'll be changing them.

I thought earlier they will remain dragon/ice because dragon is their main type and they are still partially wuji Kyurem - ice typing symbolizes wuji.
They will probably have abilities to boost their electric/fire attacks, to boost their yin or yang energy from Zekrom or Reshiram.

Since this is still generation 5, I don't think they'll give Kyurem new abilities, which would prevent it from being used against B/W players. With the upcoming Keldeo event supposedly being for both B/W and B2/W2, that seems to mean that the games will be compatible to an extent. I'm still betting on a new hold item to boost maybe ice and fire attacks, and another that boosts ice and electric attacks or something like it.

 

[Iceshadow3317]

Well how about 2 new moves? Maybe Blazeice and Voltice. Something in that nature. Giving it a 2 type attack. That would be new but over powered I would think. Sorry if someone has said this already