Greenlit: Analysis of the battles in PL:A

[bobandbill]

This came up in the discord channel for the game, and a few people expressed interest in co-writing such an analysis. This would probably reference this article of mine (part SwSh battle-focused review, part general deep-dive into Game Freak's use of 3D battle scenes compared with others): https://daily.pokecommunity.com/2020/01/17/battles-visually-left-behind-in-pokemon-switch-titles/

I'd say it might be good to split it into sections, e.g. Speed of battles (great!), animations in the wild, animations entering and within battles (some improvement), dynamic battle environments (good), sizes of pokes (good!), reacting to damage/fainting animations (still lacking).

This will need further discussion and planning before getting approval, but do join in if interested!

 

[luke]

The good: the attack animations themselves are for the most part better. More dynamic and stylish. Attacks like Dark Pulse Hyper Beam and Overheat look the best they have in generations. Pokémon definitely have more "personality" in Baylor than they have had in years. Some are still a little stiff but there's more there than we've had since the switch to 3D. Battle speed is sooooo much better. It's amazing how quickly transitions between in and out of battle are in PLA. This is definitely the standard the games should adhere to going forward. Wish we could have unique fainting animations like the early 3D games but I think they decided they slow down the pace of battle too much and decided to keep them simple. I appreciate it from an impatient standpoint but do miss the cool ones like Jynx and Honchkrow used to have.

 

[bobandbill]

The good: the attack animations themselves are for the most part better. More dynamic and stylish. Attacks like Dark Pulse Hyper Beam and Overheat look the best they have in generations. Pokémon definitely have more "personality" in Baylor than they have had in years. Some are still a little stiff but there's more there than we've had since the switch to 3D. Battle speed is sooooo much better. It's amazing how quickly transitions between in and out of battle are in PLA. This is definitely the standard the games should adhere to going forward. Wish we could have unique fainting animations like the early 3D games but I think they decided they slow down the pace of battle too much and decided to keep them simple. I appreciate it from an impatient standpoint but do miss the cool ones like Jynx and Honchkrow used to have.

I agree with those points. Attack animations def. look nicer - I suppose I could get some footage of specific moves as tweets and put them in the article as examples.

Battle speed is a huge one - it is way quicker. PLA respects the player's time, compared to SwSh and BDSP. A lack of unique fainting and taking damage animations is def a downside, and would slow things down... but I reckon that could be folded in faster than, say, Stadium to PBR animations were, and still give more personality to each Pokemon.

 

[bobandbill]

I'm just going to go ahead and tackle this, just maybe potentially a bit stripped down to a fully ambitious take in the aim of getting it done rather than being an unfinished idea (but this may still be long, and if anyone else wants to cowrite please speak up). Some outlining here:

- Intro (Battle are a major part of the Pokemon games. Since XY seen lacking animations get reused across two generations and consoles. Link to SwSh focused article. How has PL:A changed things? What's good, what is still lacking, and what would be good to be seen in SV as a result?
- The good
--- So much faster: focus on battle speed being so much faster. Comparison to the painful speed of BDSP
--- Looks cooler - specific battle animations being quite flashy and cool.
--- Sizes and height: alphas show some variety. Having Pokemon be able to fight others from a rock in delivering their attacks
- The bad
--- Lack of unique fainting/taking damage reactions: what it says. Compare to classic examples in older titles. Point out removes personality from individual Pokemon
--- Some animations still lacking: no double kick level, but some stat debuff ones are harder to appreciate
--- Less attacks: the least we've ever seen, which makes sense but less variety is still a downside imo
- Looking forward
--- SV would do well to make everything look good, not just half and half. Please add those fainting/taking damage animations have some more flavour to them. Don't go back to the style of BDSP in battle speed or messaging.

How's that layout look?

 

[Arcaneum]

I would help co-write but P:LA is not something I've really touched, or the newer games as a whole, to really offer insight as such.

I will +1 though, as I always like a longer detailed piece especially on something like this.

Layout looks fine to me, I can't think of anything further to add per se.

 

[Rivvon]

I think this is a fine idea, but perhaps the title needs to be more specific. When I read "Analysis of the battles" I thought this would be about the styles and how action speed works compared to the traditional turn based formula of past games. It seems focused on the visual execution of battles instead, which is a fine idea, but the title is a bit confusing. Other than that, I think the structure and planned content of the article is looking fine. A +1 from me.

(Just my two cents on the "unique fainting animations" matter: after rewatching the Stadium animations... yeah, they are way too long. If it were up to me, I'd have unique fainting animations only for select Trainer battles, like the final boss, so they can feel special and also only need to be made for a specific set of Pokémon.)

 

[bobandbill]

Thanks!

I think this is a fine idea, but perhaps the title needs to be more specific. When I read "Analysis of the battles" I thought this would be about the styles and how action speed works compared to the traditional turn based formula of past games. It seems focused on the visual execution of battles instead, which is a fine idea, but the title is a bit confusing. Other than that, I think the structure and planned content of the article is looking fine. A +1 from me.

Thanks, that's a good point, I will have to adjust the title for sure. "Battle visuals analysis in Pokemon Legends Arceus", for example (if a bit drab).

(Just my two cents on the "unique fainting animations" matter: after rewatching the Stadium animations... yeah, they are way too long. If it were up to me, I'd have unique fainting animations only for select Trainer battles, like the final boss, so they can feel special and also only need to be made for a specific set of Pokémon.)

My personal feeling is that they could give some unique, shorter animations, and not pause the battle to highlight them as done in Stadium/etc titles, but rather just have it happen right after damage is taken that knocks them out, and go straight to being fainted.

 

[Rivvon]

My personal feeling is that they could give some unique, shorter animations, and not pause the battle to highlight them as done in Stadium/etc titles, but rather just have it happen right after damage is taken that knocks them out, and go straight to being fainted.

If you mean turning their "recoil" animation into a fainting animation, I think that may only serve to make the fainting animations even more same-y. As it stands most fainting animations (even in Stadium) are either "fall forward" or "fall backwards," but if they became a part of the animation when they take damage, they'd kind of all have to fall backwards for the animation to look natural.

In truth, every Pokémon still has their own unique fainting animation, they're just shorter compared to those in Stadium. Compare Stadium Raichu fainting to mainline Raichu fainting—they just cut out the needless backing up and make its tail fall down faster. Then you can see Alolan Raichu has the very unique animation of slipping and landing on its tail when it faints. And I never see anyone talk about the heartbreaking baby Kangaskhan turning around to hug the mom when she faints animation from the mainline games.

There are definitely a few standout Stadium fainting animations (Kadabra, Honchkrow) but most of them are really no more interesting than the mainline ones (Pidgey, Pidgeotto, and Pidgeot all have the same animation in Stadium, to boot). I think it's just easy to forget how many drab fainting animations there are when it's so much easier to remember the standouts.

Speaking of the standouts, specifically Honchkrow's, part of this issue may in fact come from the Sky Battle Problem, or that many Pokémon now are always in the air because of X and Y's Sky Battles. While most people recognize how this affects their general appearance in battle, this can also certainly affects their fainting animations since there's only so much you can do when floating in the air. Maybe all the ways Sky Battles have impacted 3D Pokémon animations can be its own article? This is especially relevant now with the BDSP "Sky-Battlen't" Mod that just recently released and can be tied into the article.

 

[bobandbill]

Late reply goooo

If you mean turning their "recoil" animation into a fainting animation, I think that may only serve to make the fainting animations even more same-y. As it stands most fainting animations (even in Stadium) are either "fall forward" or "fall backwards," but if they became a part of the animation when they take damage, they'd kind of all have to fall backwards for the animation to look natural.

Kinda but not strictly? That could be part of it, but also how the older games did it was to make a new camera angle/'shot' to show us the fainting animation. I reckon they could make a compromise without reverting to that, which is part of the slowdown, and still making it not so samey.

In truth, every Pokémon still has their own unique fainting animation, they're just shorter compared to those in Stadium. Compare Stadium Raichu fainting to mainline Raichu fainting—they just cut out the needless backing up and make its tail fall down faster. Then you can see Alolan Raichu has the very unique animation of slipping and landing on its tail when it faints. And I never see anyone talk about the heartbreaking baby Kangaskhan turning around to hug the mom when she faints animation from the mainline games.

I'd say it's partly because it's so easy to miss, and most of the new ones are drab still imo - more so than the older pre-gen-6 ones.

Speaking of the standouts, specifically Honchkrow's, part of this issue may in fact come from the Sky Battle Problem, or that many Pokémon now are always in the air because of X and Y's Sky Battles. While most people recognize how this affects their general appearance in battle, this can also certainly affects their fainting animations since there's only so much you can do when floating in the air. Maybe all the ways Sky Battles have impacted 3D Pokémon animations can be its own article? This is especially relevant now with the BDSP "Sky-Battlen't" Mod that just recently released and can be tied into the article.

Ah yeah, sky battles is definitely an issue that contributed here. Good idea for it to be a separate article - was that something you would be interested in, or just something you think someone (me :v) ought to do?

 

[Rivvon]

Late reply gooooKinda but not strictly? That could be part of it, but also how the older games did it was to make a new camera angle/'shot' to show us the fainting animation. I reckon they could make a compromise without reverting to that, which is part of the slowdown, and still making it not so samey.

I'd say it's partly because it's so easy to miss, and most of the new ones are drab still imo - more so than the older pre-gen-6 ones.

Ah yeah, sky battles is definitely an issue that contributed here. Good idea for it to be a separate article - was that something you would be interested in, or just something you think someone (me :v) ought to do?

As fun as it may be to explore, I have a bit too much on my plate right now, so anyone who would like to write on the topic is absolutely free to use the idea!

 

[bobandbill]

As fun as it may be to explore, I have a bit too much on my plate right now, so anyone who would like to write on the topic is absolutely free to use the idea!

Fair enough. I'd say I'm in a similar position.